Mistake or not, he still was the best player on the pitch. He is not as flashy for sure but he does his job a lot more consistently which Pogba can only dream of at the moment.
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Mistake or not, he still was the best player on the pitch. He is not as flashy for sure but he does his job a lot more consistently which Pogba can only dream of at the moment.
Pogba is insanely overrated by United fans but to suggest we sell him because he isn't as good is ridiculous. Worst case scenario he never becomes world class but we still have a really good player among other good players in our starting XI.
The suggestions that we sell every good player one doesn't rate must be the Mourinho-fever at work
Not really, if he was, then so was Kanté and everyone else for that matter, drop the whole team if you like.
The poor cnut was only on the pitch for 20 minutes, yet the France defeat is his fault?
No they are not. Those are things that can come with coaching and experience. There are qualities that Pogba possesses that only few MFs in the world have.
This is the Pogba thread and it's normal that I ask about him and not the rest of the players. It's another shit cameo/match for him this season.
Who said or even implied that ?
You were talking about Kanté - you said you didn't watch the second half, I watched the whole match. So because a couple of posters with agendas say he was crap, you assume that to be the correct assessment because those who say he wasn't doesn't suit your agenda?
Not all players arrive as the finished article. At his age, and relative experience (only really Serie A, which let's face it is behind at least La Liga and the Prem) we were (over) paying for what he could become, not what he was at the time.
All these posts basically same thing: he has the attributes/tools to be one of the very best, but isn't there and doesn't do it consistently.
I know real life and football don't parallel all the time, but the above is basically all you learn in manager training. How to take team members and shape what they are into something better for the team. In the end, some of it comes down to the individual, but I'd strongly argue the majority of time it's how much effort and how effectively the manager works on development.
Is Pogba better under Mourinho? I'm not sure. He looked at his best when he basically had no defined 'job' and could just be a footballer. Some managers would acknowledge that, encourage it and build around it. Others find that too scary, as it doesn't fit into their predefined boxes of what a midfielder 'should' look like.
Unfortunately we have a manager that was never a footballer, who I don't personally believe loves football, rather loves winning. And he'd rather have XI automatons that precisely do whatever it is he's planned than create an environment whereby a team can express themselves.
Watch where Pogba goes after Jose, either with us or elsewhere. He will be an absolute star.
All these posts basically same thing: he has the attributes/tools to be one of the very best, but isn't there and doesn't do it consistently.
I know real life and football don't parallel all the time, but the above is basically all you learn in manager training. How to take team members and shape what they are into something better for the team. In the end, some of it comes down to the individual, but I'd strongly argue the majority of time it's how much effort and how effectively the manager works on development.
Is Pogba better under Mourinho? I'm not sure. He looked at his best when he basically had no defined 'job' and could just be a footballer. Some managers would acknowledge that, encourage it and build around it. Others find that too scary, as it doesn't fit into their predefined boxes of what a midfielder 'should' look like.
Unfortunately we have a manager that was never a footballer, who I don't personally believe loves football, rather loves winning. And he'd rather have XI automatons that precisely do whatever it is he's planned than create an environment whereby a team can express themselves.
Watch where Pogba goes after Jose, either with us or elsewhere. He will be an absolute star.
Agreed. You can't teach the sort of talent that Pogba has. We just need to find a way to enable it on a more consistent basis.
I've made this point before, but I'll make it again, as it's relevant. Both Romelu and Paul have referenced players that they look to when adding to their game and it seems that all those players are completely different types physically. Lukaku will never be an Henry type of player and Pogba is not some low centre of gravity #10.
Pogba is a bit of an anomaly. The only player he himself has talked about in terms of emulating that he could actually emulate is Yaya Toure. At his best Yaya was a liberated midfielder but he did a shift, even if his style looks lackadaisical. When you have the physical attributes that Pogba has, you cannot really excuse him from helping the team out when it's not in possession. It's not as if people want him to fly into challenges. But to competently battle in aerial duels and to show commitment when defending, which means tracking back to keep a solid team shape and block passing lanes. And under no circumstances, sit on the ground or stop playing and complain to the ref when we've just lost the ball in the final third allowing the opposition to counter. I personally don't think it's a big ask. Sanchez is an attacking player, he shows commitment. Pogba is not a Hazard.
People can romanticise all they want about his time with Juve, but he won't feature for France if he performs to the level with them that he has for United over the last month or two. If he's offering 50% they've got other options.
I certainly wouldn't want him sold as that would be lunacy. We just need to get the best out of him and he needs to contribute to that process by doing things he might think aren't suitable for a Messi type player. I think his perspective needs re-adjusting.
Pogba is a bit of an anomaly. The only player he himself has talked about in terms of emulating that he could actually emulate is Yaya Toure. At his best Yaya was a liberated midfielder but he did a shift, even if his style looks lackadaisical. When you have the physical attributes that Pogba has, you cannot really excuse him from helping the team out when it's not in possession. It's not as if people want him to fly into challenges. But to competently battle in aerial duels and to show commitment when defending, which means tracking back to keep a solid team shape and block passing lanes. And under no circumstances, sit on the ground or stop playing and complain to the ref when we've just lost the ball in the final third allowing the opposition to counter. I personally don't think it's a big ask. Sanchez is an attacking player, he shows commitment. Pogba is not a Hazard.
People can romanticise all they want about his time with Juve, but he won't feature for France if he performs to the level with them that he has for United over the last month or two. If he's offering 50% they've got other options.
I certainly wouldn't want him sold as that would be lunacy. We just need to get the best out of him and he needs to contribute to that process by doing things he might think aren't suitable for a Messi type player. I think his perspective needs re-adjusting.
France have too many top players that can play on the left for Pogba to get to play there. He should knuckle down and learn to play box to box.
Not just couple of posters but I read it and received a text about it. This morning I even managed to watch a re-run.
He was shit as everyone else, no agenda needed when something is that obvious.
He played 20 min and he was average, Matuidi and Kante were shite.
The only good midfielder was Lemar. He was by far the best player on the pitch
#BlackIniesta
The only good midfielder was Lemar. He was by far the best player on the pitch
#BlackIniestaIt wasn’t aimed at you mate. It’s all over Twitter.
Each individual on the pitch has their own 'job' or else it'll be a disaster. It's also one of the responsibilities of a professional football player, you need to be in a place to make the team perform better(which has been agreed before the game) and not in a place where you feel like playing. He's not Messi nor Ronaldo to be given a 'free' role, heck even those players are being given 'defined' jobs. He's not even being played out of position, He's a midfielder being put in a midfield position.
He looked at his best not because He had no defined 'job' but because There were 2 other midfielders that could help control the midfield so He could go forward more without having to worry too much about defending or controlling the midfield.
A team full of players that can do what They want sounds nice in theory but it doesn't necessarily mean the team or the players will perform better. Also, being disciplined about positioning is one of the keys to be a top, top midfielder in football.
Twitter is full of imbeciles bro, what do you even bother with it ?
Pogba is overrated but occasionally terrific with terrific players around him,incapable surrounded with lesser lights and not the sharpest tool in the box,would swap him with Verratti any day of the week!
The aftermath of this cameo for France is very weird.
All weeks murmurs were he wasn’t even fit, 85% of that team was absolute shite and 20 minutes of further shit from Pogba. Not really worth all this is it?
The microanalysis of Pogba and Martial is becoming tiresome.
All weeks murmurs were he wasn’t even fit, 85% of that team was absolute shite and 20 minutes of further shit from Pogba. Not really worth all this is it?
The microanalysis of Pogba and Martial is becoming tiresome.
Not quite sure how you managed to come to that conclusion. Did they all do an IQ test all something?!
So full of trolls these days pal.
That for me is the problem right there.
Before the Arsenal game where he was sent off, he working hard and played a very physical style of football.
In fact so physical was he, that he ended up getting red carded against Arsenal.
When he returned, the drive and physicality seem to be missing.
IMO, he is best when he is transitioning defence into attack. No other player in our team can do this like him. But since the Arsenal game, he doesn't seem to do this.
Some people on here will say that Jose does not want him (or any of our other players) to attack, but I don't believe this. In our last match, Jose was shouting at our players to attack, but our players seemed reluctant, to create attacks and take risks. Pogba did not play, but given his recent performances, I think that Pogba would've done the same. IMO Roy Keane was right when he said that some of our players lack the mentality to play at the highest level.
So, what's the cure?
Keep playing him and hope he hits form. After every match Jose may need to sit with Pogba, reviewing a video of the previous match, highlighting what he could've done better (a la LVG). There is no obvious/quick fix to his current downturn in form.
Some rumours floating about on the old interweb that the friction between Pogba and Moutinho is due to Pogba wanting to rehabilitate in Miami, with Mourinho wanting him to stay in Manchester.
The rumours suggest that Pogba went against Mourinho’s wishes and went to Miami.
The rumours suggest that Pogba went against Mourinho’s wishes and went to Miami.
That was like 5 months ago. He’s been in the team playing well since then.
They are completely different players.....Pogba has all the tools to be a world class player....we need to be patient and ensure the whole playing squad know we are behind the manager....see how it turns out. I'd hate to be a club that epitomises player power.
Yeah, the Arsenal game was at the beginning of December. Jose spoke afterwards about Pogba being that unique type of player who can create that goal.
I'd find it incredibly surprising that a player with his enormous talent could find himself completely out of favour in a period of 3 months.
It’s probably all bollocks, but the rumours are that it’s the situation that “broke” their relationship.
If true, which its not, Pogs should be sold and replaced.....that's how this club has to operate for me....
I’m disillusioned with Mourinho and want him replaced as I don’t think he is the right man for the United job at all, but I agree with you.
If true, and Pogba went against his managers wishes then he should be kicked out.
I don’t for a second believe that Pogba would be so stupid though.
Remember earlier in the season when Pogba was injured and how we were lacking creativity from midfield and then when he came back and we created twice as many chances. Pogba can be a very important player for us.
I just hope there's nothing seriously wrong with him and Mourinho and he gets back to playing well again.
I just hope there's nothing seriously wrong with him and Mourinho and he gets back to playing well again.
Their relationship looked alright when Pogba interrupted Mourinho's interview after the Liverpool game to give him a hearty handshake. You don't do that to a boss you have a broken relationship with.
The source material of the rumour appears to be the Mirror, so probably bollocks. Definitely bollocks.
The source material of the rumour appears to be the Mirror, so probably bollocks. Definitely bollocks.
I've lost all hope with him. His priorities aren't right. Focused more on dances and haircuts rather than improving.
You read it from the Sun. They are just linking stories at random. What we do know from innocent reports are the time was Jose kept repeating in press conferences how he wouldn't discuss Pogba because the player's rehabilitation was not under his supervision. Think it was also reported that the rehabilitation specialist was approved by the club so it's not as straightforward as saying he skipped class.
Even after that Jose didn't show illwill towards Pogba. He notable reiterated our defensive setup in big games was because of Pogba's absence and how he would setup different were Pogba present.
Send the club an email. I'm sure they'll open a position for you to implement your decisions
Is Matic really a "destroyer type"? He's a former number 10 and is very good on the ball. His passing is excellent and when he pushes forward he can be very creative.
I think he's a really good all round midfielder and is good in a deep role because of his experience and intelligence.
The weakness in Matic's game is his lack of mobility. It shouldn't be an issue when you have a physical freak like Pogba next to him but it is a big problem at the moment because Pogba seems to feel he shouldn't have to put any defensive effort in. At the start of the season they were a fantastic combination. The only thing that has changed is Pogba's attitude.
Yes but intelligence and movement/positioning are so absolutely crucial and if Pogba lacks in those areas he can have Ronaldhinio's technical qualities but he'll still fail to be a top midfielder. And while a lot of things can come with coaching and experience there's no guarantee of that happening. It's why so many players dont reach their potential which is pretty normal rather than the exception.
Also, while Pogba has to improve in these areas to be one of the best in any position, I dont see him as a pure CM as a result of where his strengths and weaknesses lie. If he does achieve true greatness it'll be as a free roaming creative flair midfielder. I dont think he'll ever be the 'engine' Mourinho and a lot of United fans want him to be.
Not really. The worst case scenario would be having an overpaid, overrated and overhyped star that we build a around, or make an important part of our plan, who lets down by his performances and his relationship with others at the club affecting the teams results.
Of course I wouldn't sell Pogba as he could end up being a brilliant player for us. But the worst case downside of a huge name failing is bigger than you make it out to be.
Pogba knows how to move and get into position to receive passes. He never had that problem. This is Jose we are talking about who believes team with possession makes mistakes than the team without possession. That's how Jose sets up. So if anyone is expecting possession football as baseline to rate Pogba's movement then it will result in only one thing, Pogba will look poor as the team is coached in that way.
If I understated it then you certainly overstated the concerns. First of all we don't have to build around Pogba. Secondly his relationship with others at the club is very good. He was made captain a few months ago because of his popularity in the dressing room. Finally his performances haven't been great but haven't been awful either (the sevilla cameo was diabolical though) but besides Lukaku, all our attacking talents have looked gash this year. We already have a very good player on our hands and 89mil was a steal
I haven't overstated anything. You're definitely still busy making Pogba look better than he actually is. Funnily enough I didn't even present my view on the current scenario. I offered the worst case scenario which is obviously a lot worse than ''we'll still have a good footballer'. Those things don't necessarily have to go wrong but they can if a very expensive resource like him fails to produce.
The bolded bit is again an attempt to cover up for him. The guy is a huge name in football and has been dropped in favour of the likes of Fellaini and an academy product. To equate his recent performances with the likes of Martial and Rashford is silly. His form has been so poor he barely looks a PL player which is nuts given how talented he is, and how good he has been in the past.
Not really to be honest. CM is one of the hardest positions to play because of the positions you must take up and being able to be on the correct side of the ball, play facing towards your goal and the opposite etc. from experience, its something you develop early in your role as a CM. The movement aspect is the very basic part that you should have nailed down. Imagine a CM in a EPL professional team that didn't always know where to be to receive passes from team mates? you'd think it a bit amateur at this level because its one of the 1st things that ID someone as a CM. Plenty of players have physical and technical attributes but as Rooney showed, CM requires highest level of positional awareness
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