[Vilev]

I've written like a month ago that while i love Pogba he has made a huge blunder by re-joining United and since he left Juve he has not progressed at all, he actually regressed if anything.
He is clearly not the type of player that do well in this jose-style football.

 

[Vilev]

How any one seriously think that Pogba is being played 'out of position' because he isn't in a midfield 3 is beyond me. He is a midfielder, and there are certain things all midfielders must do regardless of where they are. It's completely absurd to suggest that a players best position is not actually his position, but his position within a specific tactical setup. More importantly, if Pogba needs such a specific setup to thrive then he isn't worth playing in his specific position because his skillset is so limited and he is a system player rather than a player with quality on his own.

It's the other way around. If you buy a player for 90m you need to be sure that he will fit in the team. And you need to be sure that you will use him to his strengths aka in his favored position/role etc. Not as a makeshift whatever, as we have been doing first with Di Maria and now with Pogba. You don't buy a Bentley and then complain that it's a pretty shitty truck, especially for that money.

 

[Dec9003]

Since Pogba has had a couple of poor games recently (Spurs, Newcastle) are we now going to completely ignore that when fit he's been fantastic this season playing in a two man midfield? Sometimes I feel that on this forum we can all get a bit narrow minded in the sense we can only remember the last two to three matches. Pogba has been great for us this season next to Matic, and I'm sure for the rest of the season when he's back at it he will be great next to Matic. Sure, in the summer we need to improve the midfield, but if we can't play football with Pogba and Matic in midfield then we've gone seriously wrong somewhere.

 

[reddevil702]

I've written like a month ago that while i love Pogba he has made a huge blunder by re-joining United and since he left Juve he has not progressed at all, he actually regressed if anything.
He is clearly not the type of player that do well in this jose-style football.

Pogbas improved even in comparison to last year let alone to his time at Juve. His responsibilities are much greater at United so there will always be more room to criticize. If he doesn't defend like Kante, attack like KDB and score like Kane then it's a bad game. When he has the talent around him in the mid, especially someone like Vidal who was even better than Pogba at that time, then we wont see a truely free attacking Pogba to compare. Even Martial has to track back and defend, so of course Jose will expect this from his Midfielder, and why shouldn't he?

 

[Vilev]

Pogbas improved even in comparison to last year let alone to his time at Juve.

Last year he was miles behind his Juve's performances. Last season he did not look even like a decent 30m midfielder most of the time. This season he is better, but still way-way short of what MU was buying.

Pogbas improved even in comparison to last year let alone to his time at Juve. His responsibilities are much greater at United so there will always be more room to criticize. If he doesn't defend like Kante, attack like KDB and score like Kane then it's a bad game. When he has the talent around him in the mid, especially someone like Vidal who was even better than Pogba at that time, then we wont see a truely free attacking Pogba to compare. Even Martial has to track back and defend, so of course Jose will expect this from his Midfielder, and why shouldn't he?

You should read my second post.
Actually it's pretty obvious from the one you cited either. I don't disagree that Pogba is being misused and thus cannot progress properly. I think United in theory need a player like Pogba, but in the current Jose team, with a current squad he can't be 100%.

 

[kouroux]

It's the other way around. If you buy a player for 90m you need to be sure that he will fit in the team. And you need to be sure that you will use him to his strengths aka in his favored position/role etc. Not as a makeshift whatever, as we have been doing first with Di Maria and now with Pogba. You don't buy a Bentley and then complain that it's a pretty shitty truck, especially for that money.

Nah, you do that for any player in theory regardless of the price.
Pogba has been tried in several systems since his arrival and honestly he didn't perform to a level unseen in any particular one. A kinda "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of player at the truly highest level. Talent is there to be the best CM in the world but he's nowhere near that at the moment.

 

[Vilev]

Nah, you do that for any player in theory regardless of the price.

No, that would be stupid. If you buy a strong average player for squad, you'd expect him to adapt, to maybe be a makeshift defender or pluck the holes in the team when others are injured and so on.

ogba has been tried in several systems since his arrival and honestly he didn't perform to a level unseen in any particular one.

I agree with that, i think it's a mixture of two things. First Jose is not the best coach, developing players was never his strong suit. Then there is a question of playing style. Obviously Pogba will never strive in typical Jose's team. Just compare him and say Lampard. The difference is obvious.

 

[red4ever 79]

wouldnt play him on Wed. Bang out of form

 

[Marcelinho87]

wouldnt play him on Wed. Bang out of form

How do you get back into form if not through playing?

 

[Witchking]

Funny how many told that the reason we were not that great against the big teams was because Pogba was missing. Truth is somewhere down the middle with regards to Pogba, Jose needs to evolve and be a bit more attacking and trust the team to attack well while Pogba needs to mature and handle more responsibility instead of playing like he doesn't give a damn.

 

[Bobski]

Nah, you do that for any player in theory regardless of the price.
Pogba has been tried in several systems since his arrival and honestly he didn't perform to a level unseen in any particular one. A kinda "Jack of all trades, master of none" type of player at the truly highest level. Talent is there to be the best CM in the world but he's nowhere near that at the moment.

It is an odd contradiction that a jack of all trades is seemingly highly specialized into one role.

 

[MDFC Manager]

How do you get back into form if not through playing?

Mourinho is working on him in the sidelines

 

[Ace of Spades]

Pogba is just out of form, the bigger problem is that so is Matic, with Herrera and Fellaini injured. That just leaves us with McTominay and Carrick, both of whom have not played a lot this season. There is no need to make such a big deal out of it, imo. The press are obviously going to find some way to create a story out of it, best to ignore them.

That being said, our shit performances should not be blamed entirely on Pogba. The entire team is struggling and the manager has to take responsibility for that. The negative shit tactics and the general lack of cohesion in the attacking play, the lack of aggression and effort in the team, which lets other teams attack us so easily is down to the manager, not just one single player.

Hope we find some form quick, we need it in the next few weeks.

 

[breakout67]

It is an odd contradiction that a jack of all trades is seemingly highly specialized into one role.

The contradiction only exists in the public eye. There is some sort of obsession with pigeon holing Pogba into an Iniesta, Silva, Ozil bracket of player when he obviously isn't that.

And it doesn't help that so many people don't even understand the 4-2-3-1 system. This system consists of one defensive midfielder (Makelele, Matic, Xabi Alonso), one box to box midfielder (Essien, Khedira, Pogba) and one attacking midfielder (Deco, Lampard, Sneijder, Ozil). It is not a 'midfield 2' and Pogba does not play a holding role.

Pogba does not have much defensive responsibility, if he were to have any less then he would basically contribute nothing to the midfield. Only in big games does Pogba have to track back consistently and that is normal because top teams will punish you if you slack off in midfield.

 

[Raees]

The contradiction only exists in the public eye. There is some sort of obsession with pigeon holing Pogba into an Iniesta, Silva, Ozil bracket of player when he obviously isn't that.

And it doesn't help that so many people don't even understand the 4-2-3-1 system. This system consists of one defensive midfielder (Makelele, Matic, Xabi Alonso), one box to box midfielder (Essien, Khedira, Pogba) and one attacking midfielder (Deco, Lampard, Sneijder, Ozil). It is not a 'midfield 2' and Pogba does not play a holding role.

Pogba does not have much defensive responsibility, if he were to have any less then he would basically contribute nothing to the midfield. Only in big games does Pogba have to track back consistently and that is normal because top teams will punish you if you slack off in midfield.

You can't bracket Lampard with those three. Those three are pure 10's and he's an attacking 8. Very different roles.

Likewise Iniesta plays deeper than Ozil and has more defensive responsibilities too. He gets involved with the midfield battle, whereas Ozil pretty much free to roam across the pitch if he likes.

 

[Bobski]

The contradiction only exists in the public eye. There is some sort of obsession with pigeon holing Pogba into an Iniesta, Silva, Ozil bracket of player when he obviously isn't that.

And it doesn't help that so many people don't even understand the 4-2-3-1 system. This system consists of one defensive midfielder (Makelele, Matic, Xabi Alonso), one box to box midfielder (Essien, Khedira, Pogba) and one attacking midfielder (Deco, Lampard, Sneijder, Ozil). It is not a 'midfield 2' and Pogba does not play a holding role.

Pogba does not have much defensive responsibility, if he were to have any less then he would basically contribute nothing to the midfield. Only in big games does Pogba have to track back consistently and that is normal because top teams will punish you if you slack off in midfield.

I agree with you and in your last statement that will be equally true in whatever system we play. Brings to mind Utd players talking about the detail in Queiroz's prep for the Barca tie in 2008, not just where exactly you should be in a given scenario but also body shape and posture.

 

[Moved To Differently]

How any one seriously think that Pogba is being played 'out of position' because he isn't in a midfield 3 is beyond me. He is a midfielder, and there are certain things all midfielders must do regardless of where they are. It's completely absurd to suggest that a players best position is not actually his position, but his position within a specific tactical setup. More importantly, if Pogba needs such a specific setup to thrive then he isn't worth playing in his specific position because his skillset is so limited and he is a system player rather than a player with quality on his own.

Top players have game intelligence, that allows them to adapt their game to suit the team's requirements. You will never get a setup that specifically caters to you. You have to make compromises for the team because that is what is important.

I for one believe Pogba is a top player with game intelligence; because he has shown this to be the case everywhere he has been. He has been one of our standout players this season, which has mostly been in a midfield 2. He's just not in good form at the moment.

Out of interest, what do you mean by 'game intelligence'?

 

[kouroux]

No, that would be stupid. If you buy a strong average player for squad, you'd expect him to adapt, to maybe be a makeshift defender or pluck the holes in the team when others are injured and so on.
I agree with that, i think it's a mixture of two things. First Jose is not the best coach, developing players was never his strong suit. Then there is a question of playing style. Obviously Pogba will never strive in typical Jose's team. Just compare him and say Lampard. The difference is obvious.

That is what I mean too, a strong average player will have his best use in being used in several positions, not just one. It's a matter of semantic for me, when I say a player has to be put in the best situation to perform, I don't just talk about a single position but depending on what he can do, possibly more than one.

 

[kouroux]

It is an odd contradiction that a jack of all trades is seemingly highly specialized into one role.

It makes sense though. Pogba can play in many different position without excelling particularly well. To get the best out of him though, he needs his custome made position and system.

 

[breakout67]

Out of interest, what do you mean by 'game intelligence'?

Tactical understanding, timing (passes, runs, tackles etc.), improvisation, spacial awareness; just to name a few aspects of game intelligence.

Pogba has IMO been fantastic in adapting to the needs of the team, and I see there is very little need to change his role in the team. If we get another midfielder to play alongside him then he will have to play a very similar way as expected already. That is because getting another midfielder is not about Paul Pogba, but the whole team doing better in controlling the game.

I don't see Pogba as someone to build the midfield around, because he is not that type of player. He needs to be able to take risks and try the difficult things; he is a high risk, high reward type of player. A more calm and tempered midfielder would be better to build the midfield around.

 

[ti vu]

It makes sense though. Pogba can play in many different position without excelling particularly well. To get the best out of him though, he needs his custome made position and system.

Thing is jack of all trade means average. I think the all round, complete is the term to use here. Thing is to explain for people to understand all rounded at high level doesn't necessarily mean perfect, best at everything.

 

[kouroux]

Thing is jack of all trade means average. I think the all round, complete is the term to use here. Thing is to explain for people to understand all rounded at high level doesn't necessarily mean perfect, best at everything.

By all means, let's use that term then.

 

[JJ12]

wouldnt play him on Wed. Bang out of form

Play McTominay instead?

 

[BluesJr]

I really can't wait until he's back and playing better again and all this complete garbage can stop.

 

[Adnan]

 

[Brightonian]

Not going to read the article (see: Daily Mail) but the headline is a fair shout. We've all seen how absurdly gifted Pogba is. He has the potential to be an all-time great. A manager who can't get the best out of a player like that even with all our resources to play with is no longer a world class manager.

However, I have every confidence he will.

 

[Rado_N]

Martin Samuel doing his best to write a negative United article after Wigan knock City out of the cup.

 

[Adnan]

Not going to read the article (see: Daily Mail) but the headline is a fair shout. We've all seen how absurdly gifted Pogba is. He has the potential to be an all-time great. A manager who can't get the best out of a player like that even with all our resources to play with is no longer a world class manager.

However, I have every confidence he will.

Martin Samuel is the reason I read it to be honest.

 

[bosnian_red]

If it's true he isn't in the starting 11 then I think he'll leave in the summer. You don't drop someone like Pogba in a game like this if he is in your future plans. If true, then hopefully we can do an exchange with Madrid for Kroos+cash (or another player like kovacic or asensio or something).

 

[Silas]

If it's true he isn't in the starting 11 then I think he'll leave in the summer. You don't drop someone like Pogba in a game like this if he is in your future plans. If true, then hopefully we can do an exchange with Madrid for Kroos+cash (or another player like kovacic or asensio or something).

No chance of that happening. Literally zero.

 

[Santos J]

Ridiculous if true

 

[shamans]

On the bright side he will be fully recovered for Chelsea? :/

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If it's true he isn't in the starting 11 then I think he'll leave in the summer. You don't drop someone like Pogba in a game like this if he is in your future plans. If true, then hopefully we can do an exchange with Madrid for Kroos+cash (or another player like kovacic or asensio or something).

Where did you hear that?

If he's fully fit, of course he'll start. Be amazed if he doesn't.

 

[Paxi]

Oh fecking dear. Speculation will be rife.

Ffs.

 

[Paxi]

Where did you hear that?

If he's fully fit, of course he'll start. Be amazed if he doesn't.

Paul Hirst

 

[SirAF]

If it's true he isn't in the starting 11 then I think he'll leave in the summer. You don't drop someone like Pogba in a game like this if he is in your future plans. If true, then hopefully we can do an exchange with Madrid for Kroos+cash (or another player like kovacic or asensio or something).

Or sending him a message that he is not undroppable and gotta step it up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Paul Hirst

Thanks.

 

[bosnian_red]

Where did you hear that?

If he's fully fit, of course he'll start. Be amazed if he doesn't.

Everywhere on Twitter.

Or sending him a message that he is not undroppable and gotta step it up.

You don't send a message to someone like him, away in the knockout phase in the champions league. Getting dropped in those games will just piss pogba off and make him think about leaving but also probably makes Mourinho think about getting rid and getting someone that clearly suits how he wants to play.

 

[SirAF]

Everywhere on Twitter.

You don't send a message to someone like him, away in the knockout phase in the champions league. Getting dropped in those games will just piss pogba off and make him think about leaving but also probably makes Mourinho think about getting rid and getting someone that clearly suits how he wants to play.

Guesswork.

 

[Paxi]

Well he's not ill is he or else he wouldn't have travelled.

Now I'm beginning to think he wasn't ill against Huddesfield. Initially I believed Jose but now it looks like he has dropped him. If what Hirst is saying is true.

But why say he will definetely play against Huddesfield?? Makes no sense.