The ability to drive the ball forward , making through passes and long balls is what gives our midfield any shape in our games .
We saw our midfield without him already and how dire it was with zero creativity from the midfield . I'm still astonished some people are questioning his performance after we saw Carrick and Fellaini in the midfield and how they both were struggling to just pass the ball forward and can't dribble or drive the ball to the front rows .
He's a key player to our midfield . It's the over expectations some fans have regarding him .
His numbers are very unlucky due to the crossbars and his teammates missing chances but overall , very solid player and our midfield can't operate without him. We have zero creativity from midfield without his presence .
Just had a quick check, and it initally seemed like we've been better without Pogba than with him this year. In the 43 games with him in the team the record is: W24 D12 L7 with a goal difference of +34, while without him our record is W7 D1 L0 with a GD of +18. The games without him are all against Bournemouth, Reading, Wigan, Middlesborough, Leicester, West Brom, West Ham and Northampton. That just underlines how important to us he's been all season - he hasn't missed a big game. We can and should expect a lot more but I think we're getting quite a bit already.
He's been good, but I really do miss his driving runs.
He's like a complete different player from his first game against Southampton.
He gets the ball now and often offloads it. I admired Pogba's style because the way he used to glide through the midfield and open up space - very similar to Yaya, Dembele. He doesnt do that anymore.
Hope Mourinho isnt coaching it out of him, because thats what made him the player we paid all that money for.
Agree with this. I personally think he is low on confidence and with getting caught in possession quite alot doing it earlier in the season it's kind of put a doubt in the back of his mind.
Really hoping he pushes on next season when we have an improved midfield (hopefully).
Just had a quick check, and it initally seemed like we've been better without Pogba than with him this year. In the 43 games with him in the team the record is: W24 D12 L7 with a goal difference of +34, while without him our record is W7 D1 L0 with a GD of +18. The games without him are all against Bournemouth, Reading, Wigan, Middlesborough, Leicester, West Brom, West Ham and Northampton. That just underlines how important to us he's been all season - he hasn't missed a big game. We can and should expect a lot more but I think we're getting quite a bit already.
I am really not sure I understand how that logic works. We have been completely shite in big games and you say that he hasn't missed any of those big games, so because he hasn't missed a big game that means he is important for us? Just because Mourinho uses him in every big game I am not sure that means he is important to us. I mean, you could apply similar logic regarding Mourinhi's trust in Fellaini in some games.
In general I think he is having decent first season though, probably better than I expected.
He played some fantastic passes for our attackers to muck it up(except for Rashford's goal). Along with some nearly moments for scoring a goal himself.
Just had a quick check, and it initally seemed like we've been better without Pogba than with him this year. In the 43 games with him in the team the record is: W24 D12 L7 with a goal difference of +34, while without him our record is W7 D1 L0 with a GD of +18. The games without him are all against Bournemouth, Reading, Wigan, Middlesborough, Leicester, West Brom, West Ham and Northampton. That just underlines how important to us he's been all season - he hasn't missed a big game. We can and should expect a lot more but I think we're getting quite a bit already.
I am really not sure I understand how that logic works. We have been completely shite in big games and you say that he hasn't missed any of those big games, so because he hasn't missed a big game that means he is important for us? Just because Mourinho uses him in every big game I am not sure that means he is important to us. I mean, you could apply similar logic regarding Mourinhi's trust in Fellaini in some games.
In general I think he is having decent first season though, probably better than I expected.
He means the with/without stats are slightly harsh on him because the games he missed were against fodder whereas he has played in every big game so some losses/draws can be expected.
Just had a quick check, and it initally seemed like we've been better without Pogba than with him this year. In the 43 games with him in the team the record is: W24 D12 L7 with a goal difference of +34, while without him our record is W7 D1 L0 with a GD of +18. The games without him are all against Bournemouth, Reading, Wigan, Middlesborough, Leicester, West Brom, West Ham and Northampton. That just underlines how important to us he's been all season - he hasn't missed a big game. We can and should expect a lot more but I think we're getting quite a bit already.
On the statistical point of view, games with him: 43, games without him: 8. Hardly relevant sample sizes to come up with an opinion let alone a conclusion.
He's missing a lot of things during games because he's always trying to do difficult things. It's his main issue.
He was very good in November and December because he stayed put, were very rigorous in his position, but since this Liverpool game at home he's not been very good.
Yesterday he did good things and also bad things. He needs to settle in a position (2 in midfield or three) and start building on it.
We'll need him for sure in Europa League now, and he has to perform better if we want to win the trophy.
How come Pogba always disappears in the game and manage to have more passes and touches than any player our team? Must be having invisibility cloak on.
I am really not sure I understand how that logic works. We have been completely shite in big games and you say that he hasn't missed any of those big games, so because he hasn't missed a big game that means he is important for us? Just because Mourinho uses him in every big game I am not sure that means he is important to us. I mean, you could apply similar logic regarding Mourinhi's trust in Fellaini in some games.
In general I think he is having decent first season though, probably better than I expected.
Important to us, maybe not. He's certainly mportant to Mourinho though. To play that often across all competitions in all important games underlines his standing in the team. I agree he's often been poor in big games and needs to push on further, I was just surprised to see his importance clearly outlined in the only fixtures he's missed.
It's comments like this that give some supporters a bad name. Based on his performances this season this is simply not true - based on his profile and 'big name' however you could be right. 'On paper' yes, in reality no.
It's comments like this that give some supporters a bad name. Based on his performances this season this is simply not true - based on his profile and 'big name' however you could be right. 'On paper' yes, in reality no.
He has become very conservative in his play and I would not be surprised if it's due to Jose's instructions. I also dont understand why he plays so deep in a 3 men midfield when he should be the one upfront creating chances
He has become very conservative in his play and I would not be surprised if it's due to Jose's instructions. I also dont understand why he plays so deep in a 3 men midfield when he should be the one upfront creating chances
I think it's down to the fact Carrick is the only other one who can play the role as effectively and he can't play every game. It is also something that will help his game long term so I think Mourinho is having him master the discipline of the role this season and will unshackle him with a top quality defensive midfield signing in the summer for next season.
It's comments like this that give some supporters a bad name. Based on his performances this season this is simply not true - based on his profile and 'big name' however you could be right. 'On paper' yes, in reality no.
He isnt capable of doing what Kante/Matic can imo, assuming that Conte would want to play the same system. He could also move back to 4 defenders and implement Pogba as the extra midfielder. At Real, he isnt better than Kroos or Modric, but indeed Zidane could say feck balance and move Casemiro to the bench to fit in Pogba, not too rstional though.
For me the Pogba conundrum is a huge managerial headache which if it can be resolved, can result in us having a top tier midfielder on our hands and if not.. a huge tactical hindrance which will hold us back in the next few years, preventing us from signing certain players while we try in vain to get the best out of him.
POGBA IN THE FIRST HALF OF GAMES (NOT A FORMATION ISSUE)
For me this isn't a formation issue anymore. You could play 4-2-3-1, or 4-3-3 and have him as the creator in the double-pivot or you can have him as the LAM (like he played at Juve) and he would still struggle to dominate games in the first half of EPL games.. why? because the high tempo of games in the EPL (away games) will mean he has less time and space on the ball, which makes it very hard for him to play his normal tempo and rushes him into either bad decisions, or makes him want to try and dribble his way out of situations but he ends up losing the ball because the ferocity of the pressing is too much for a gangly guy like him to sidestep his way through.
At home, we face packed defences.. which is another issue for Pogba. He doesn't have the patience or intelligence to find pockets of space in tight areas, or to dictate the passing, or thread clever balls through very tight defences. He tends to go for the long ball too often, and when he drives through the packed defences, ends up overdoing it, falling over his feet and losing the ball. His poor positioning, also leaves us vulnerable to the counter.
In general also, he just lacks aggression completely in the first half of games, almost as if he is taking time to limber up and he has no emotion towards the game yet. He isn't fired up yet.
POGBA IN SECOND HALF OF GAMES
He generally is a different animal in the second half of games.. if we are in the lead, he's an absolute beast on the counter and even in games where we are trying to break teams down. He tends to create chances, and his passing etc is generally crisper in the second half. Where he needs to improve is his finishing ability, because he always strikes the post etc but he gets himself into good positions and he is very creative in the second half of games.. the blood is pumping and he starts playing by instinct.
That second half v Sunderland, people might laugh but that was world class level of performance from a midfielder. No other midfielder in the prem could have an impact like that, tricks, passing, driving.. it was insanely good but the issue is, he doesn't do that over entire 90 minutes and can't do it against all opposition consistently. He ranges from 4/10 to 10/10 over the course of a game, whereas a elite CM is close to 8/10 all game.
I remember our loss to City earlier in the season, and Pogba had some insanely good moments.. but it is doing it throughout a game. I don't think it is a formation issue, but somehow we need to tactically make up for his deficiencies in the first half of games and utilise him to maximum effect in the second half of games, when spaces open up.
SOLUTIONS TO THE POGBA CONUNDRUM
Simply put, the current system of just giving it to Pogba to create doesn't cut it. Surrounding him with CDM's, like Herrera/Carrick/Fellaini.. isn't going to bring out the best of him or United. He isn't good enough to be given the keys to break down teams in the first half or to dominate games when both teams have lots of energy. When the competition in midfield is fierce, Pogba usually goes AWOL. Its part mixture of nonchalance, inexperience in midfield, and his general physique/style of play.. which makes it harder for him to battle in comparison to a Herrera, whose nippiness/natural aggression/agility makes it easier for him to go toe to toe in this fast paced midfield confrontations.
What United need, and what Pogba needs is midfielders who can do the heavy lifting of controlling a game, creating chances, scoring chances and to let him be a luxury player during the first half of games. It sounds silly, but Pogba can be a very special player in certain scenarios, but trying to make him your Xavi.. or your Gerrard, doesn't work.. because he is a hybrid of lots of different things, and a specialist at none.. so you have to understand the nuances of what makes him tick.
Its like the Pirlo situation. If he was english, he'd have failed because no one would have had the deep appreciation for the gifts he does have, and instead would have beat him up for not having the attributes of what we want in our ideal CM. What United need is to bring in a Verratti/Modric style midfielder and a Fabinho.. so we have a midfield which can compete in any game. We need wide midfielders who can be relied upon to create chances at will/score goals, and we need maestro's up front who can stretch the opposition and all these things will relieve the burden on Pogba, let him find his feet and start getting 10-15 goals and being a big factor in United dominating the second half of games.
I'd like to see us play 4-4-2, in home games next year against weak opposition and play him as a left winger with an overlapping LWB, and then in second half of games, push him more centrally either as a LAM, or CM once spaces open up and he can do his thing. Away from home, similarly.. we need to ensure he isn't left exposed to be the sole creator in games, and the go to guy in possession.. just let him float around, but the side needs to be super strong to be able to get by while Pogba is awol and then in the second half, once he begins to kick in.. then he can have a huge influence.
FIRST HALF OF GAMES
SECOND HALF OF GAMES
SUMMARY
Probably am talking out of my arse and buying new players, trying to use him in way I cited above.. might not work and he still underperforms, but there is something obviously up with the way he is in 80% of games, when we are struggling, fighting the opposition and he looks piss poor and then other times when we have some space and he looks like a world beater. Easy thing to conclude is that he is a fair weather player but I have seen him score crucial goals in big games, on big stages.. and that tells me, he does have some character but I don't think anyone has unlocked how best to utilise him yet.
For me the Pogba conundrum is a huge managerial headache which if it can be resolved, can result in us having a top tier midfielder on our hands and if not.. a huge tactical hindrance which will hold us back in the next few years, preventing us from signing certain players while we try in vain to get the best out of him.
POGBA IN THE FIRST HALF OF GAMES (NOT A FORMATION ISSUE)
For me this isn't a formation issue anymore. You could play 4-2-3-1, or 4-3-3 and have him as the creator in the double-pivot or you can have him as the LAM (like he played at Juve) and he would still struggle to dominate games in the first half of EPL games.. why? because the high tempo of games in the EPL (away games) will mean he has less time and space on the ball, which makes it very hard for him to play his normal tempo and rushes him into either bad decisions, or makes him want to try and dribble his way out of situations but he ends up losing the ball because the ferocity of the pressing is too much for a gangly guy like him to sidestep his way through.
At home, we face packed defences.. which is another issue for Pogba. He doesn't have the patience or intelligence to find pockets of space in tight areas, or to dictate the passing, or thread clever balls through very tight defences. He tends to go for the long ball too often, and when he drives through the packed defences, ends up overdoing it, falling over his feet and losing the ball. His poor positioning, also leaves us vulnerable to the counter.
In general also, he just lacks aggression completely in the first half of games, almost as if he is taking time to limber up and he has no emotion towards the game yet. He isn't fired up yet.
POGBA IN SECOND HALF OF GAMES
He generally is a different animal in the second half of games.. if we are in the lead, he's an absolute beast on the counter and even in games where we are trying to break teams down. He tends to create chances, and his passing etc is generally crisper in the second half. Where he needs to improve is his finishing ability, because he always strikes the post etc but he gets himself into good positions and he is very creative in the second half of games.. the blood is pumping and he starts playing by instinct.
That second half v Sunderland, people might laugh but that was world class level of performance from a midfielder. No other midfielder in the prem could have an impact like that, tricks, passing, driving.. it was insanely good but the issue is, he doesn't do that over entire 90 minutes and can't do it against all opposition consistently. He ranges from 4/10 to 10/10 over the course of a game, whereas a elite CM is close to 8/10 all game.
I remember our loss to City earlier in the season, and Pogba had some insanely good moments.. but it is doing it throughout a game. I don't think it is a formation issue, but somehow we need to tactically make up for his deficiencies in the first half of games and utilise him to maximum effect in the second half of games, when spaces open up.
SOLUTIONS TO THE POGBA CONUNDRUM
Simply put, the current system of just giving it to Pogba to create doesn't cut it. Surrounding him with CDM's, like Herrera/Carrick/Fellaini.. isn't going to bring out the best of him or United. He isn't good enough to be given the keys to break down teams in the first half or to dominate games when both teams have lots of energy. When the competition in midfield is fierce, Pogba usually goes AWOL. Its part mixture of nonchalance, inexperience in midfield, and his general physique/style of play.. which makes it harder for him to battle in comparison to a Herrera, whose nippiness/natural aggression/agility makes it easier for him to go toe to toe in this fast paced midfield confrontations.
What United need, and what Pogba needs is midfielders who can do the heavy lifting of controlling a game, creating chances, scoring chances and to let him be a luxury player during the first half of games. It sounds silly, but Pogba can be a very special player in certain scenarios, but trying to make him your Xavi.. or your Gerrard, doesn't work.. because he is a hybrid of lots of different things, and a specialist at none.. so you have to understand the nuances of what makes him tick.
Its like the Pirlo situation. If he was english, he'd have failed because no one would have had the deep appreciation for the gifts he does have, and instead would have beat him up for not having the attributes of what we want in our ideal CM. What United need is to bring in a Verratti/Modric style midfielder and a Fabinho.. so we have a midfield which can compete in any game. We need wide midfielders who can be relied upon to create chances at will/score goals, and we need maestro's up front who can stretch the opposition and all these things will relieve the burden on Pogba, let him find his feet and start getting 10-15 goals and being a big factor in United dominating the second half of games.
I'd like to see us play 4-4-2, in home games next year against weak opposition and play him as a left winger with an overlapping LWB, and then in second half of games, push him more centrally either as a LAM, or CM once spaces open up and he can do his thing. Away from home, similarly.. we need to ensure he isn't left exposed to be the sole creator in games, and the go to guy in possession.. just let him float around, but the side needs to be super strong to be able to get by while Pogba is awol and then in the second half, once he begins to kick in.. then he can have a huge influence.
FIRST HALF OF GAMES
SECOND HALF OF GAMES
SUMMARY
Probably am talking out of my arse and buying new players, trying to use him in way I cited above.. might not work and he still underperforms, but there is something obviously up with the way he is in 80% of games, when we are struggling, fighting the opposition and he looks piss poor and then other times when we have some space and he looks like a world beater. Easy thing to conclude is that he is a fair weather player but I have seen him score crucial goals in big games, on big stages.. and that tells me, he does have some character but I don't think anyone has unlocked how best to utilise him yet.
The signings are not players who I think we will get, but that is the template of players I think we should aim for in terms of style. For me there is definitely a conundrum there, as there is with other areas in the side.. but getting the best out of Pogba is a long term issue, so it is important we get to grips with it, otherwise it is £90m down the drain.
He has been okay this season, but it hasn't been a great season if we look at it objectively.. he's had spells of good form but hand on heart, you can't say United have got £90m worth of performance out of him, and that is our fault as much as it is his.
The signings are not players who I think we will get, but that is the template of players I think we should aim for in terms of style. For me there is definitely a conundrum there, as there is with other areas in the side.. but getting the best out of Pogba is a long term issue, so it is important we get to grips with it, otherwise it is £90m down the drain.
He has been okay this season, but it hasn't been a great season if we look at it objectively.. he's had spells of good form but hand on heart, you can't say United have got £90m worth of performance out of him, and that is our fault as much as it is his.
You picked players in your templates which are some of the best in their positions. Was just a little funny to see.
The team is work in progress, its not something that happens overnight or in a few transfer windows. That goes for individuals and collectively. I'm happy there's been progress in the football we play, and as long as that continues I think the results will get better. Jose will know what he needs moving forward I'm sure. He's already alluded to the fact we need more goal scorers within the squad.
Has for Pogba. I think he's been pretty damn good. Should have had more goals and assists, some of it down to being unlucky and some down to bad finishing, on his part and within the team but I'm happy with him. I think he's a brilliant footballer and will only get better and better.
As for not getting £90m worth of performances out of him, thats a weird thing to able to measure. If he plays for United for the next years then he'll have more than made up for his fee. If he moves on in the next 5 years then we'll get a nice chunk of money for him. Either way his fee doesn't even come into my mind when judging his performances this season.
The signings are not players who I think we will get, but that is the template of players I think we should aim for in terms of style. For me there is definitely a conundrum there, as there is with other areas in the side.. but getting the best out of Pogba is a long term issue, so it is important we get to grips with it, otherwise it is £90m down the drain.
He has been okay this season, but it hasn't been a great season if we look at it objectively.. he's had spells of good form but hand on heart, you can't say United have got £90m worth of performance out of him, and that is our fault as much as it is his.
I think heading towards a diamond next season is the way to go with the players currently on the books and the ones it looks as if we could be targeting.
We currently have no players whose best/favoured position is out wide. Martial/Rashford prefer playing up top. Mkhi,Mata,Lingard all play better centrally.
Our supposed number 1 target also plays better through the middle. And it would allow a system where Pogba, Griezmann and Zlatan can all play in their desired positions without hindering each other.
You picked players in your templates which are some of the best in their positions. Was just a little funny to see.
The team is work in progress, its not something that happens overnight or in a few transfer windows. That goes for individuals and collectively. I'm happy there's been progress in the football we play, and as long as that continues I think the results will get better. Jose will know what he needs moving forward I'm sure. He's already alluded to the fact we need more goal scorers within the squad.
Has for Pogba. I think he's been pretty damn good. Should have had more goals and assists, some of it down to being unlucky and some down to bad finishing, on his part and within the team but I'm happy with him. I think he's a brilliant footballer and will only get better and better.
As for not getting £90m worth of performances out of him, thats a weird thing to able to measure. If he plays for United for the next years then he'll have more than made up for his fee. If he moves on in the next 5 years then we'll get a nice chunk of money for him. Either way his fee doesn't even come into my mind when judging his performances this season.
Because it is easier to envisage how it would work if I use players everyone is familiar with. That is all there was to it.
He hasn't been pretty damn good. That is completely overrating his level of performance.. ever since Fergie retired, the fanbase in general has dropped their standards and any glimpse of good form is suddenly cited as being world class, brilliant etc.. when in reality it is anything but.
Pogba hasn't been dreadful, but he has not been good either. He has had some great games, but that is a handful.. he has had great halves of football, but entire games.. few and far between. For any midfielder that is expected to play for United that is unacceptable but for a guy that is meant to be your star man, simply not good enough.
That said, I see much talent in him and I know he's been unlucky with shots/assists etc but at the same time, I've seen glaring issues with the way he has been used and the way it is affecting our general performance as a side. We are 6th for a reason and to get to 1st.. it will take a mountain of improvement. It is not as simple as saying, yay we look better than we did under LVG/Moyes and therefore we are heading in the right direction.. other teams are also progressing, and trying to improve with their own new managers.. we need to take quantum leaps forward to get in front of competitors, and that is not easy.
