It’s hard to compare as we haven’t seen him against Burnley and similar teams.
Yes I’m that perspective, the sum is reasonable, even though I feel there is a large risk he would be too weak in the air.
Pau Torres
- Thread starter Bebestation
- Start date
Definitely the safer option compared to Varane. I feel that players 28 years and more may be toi fixed in their ways and find it hard to adapt to a new system. I like the way Torres looks in some of the compilation vids. Seems faster than Lindelof and a good passer/crosser of the ball. Young enough to be trained if there are rough edges.
He won't cut it in EPL - compared to the likes of Ruben Dias & Fofana who have come to the league and be top defenders, he doesn't have the needed athletic nature to not get bullied by some big beasts.
Tbf I would argue he does have the natural athleticism needed. He is very tall. What he lacks currently is muscle but he should be able to add that on in the gym and he has the natural frame to support it. He is also naturally fast. If he can train properly and transform his body in the same type of way Ronaldo did (not necessarily saying he needs to get that ripped, just needs to bulk up a bit) he could become very well-rounded. You could argue that he hasn't felt the need to devote the time to improving this due to playing in a far less physical league to this point.
Yup, I am thinking along the exact same lines as you. Bulking up is probably the most easy thing for a professional athlete to do. As opposed to becoming faster and improving your passing ability.
So why is Lindelof still weak as feck then?
I think United should stay clear of prima donnas, contract hunters and super stars with attitude issues.
Get potential superstars in the making, that is why I think Torres will be a better signing for United than Varane.
Sell Pogba and get somebody like Tielemans.
Sancho, Tielemans and Torres will be a very good window for United.
Get potential superstars in the making, that is why I think Torres will be a better signing for United than Varane.
Sell Pogba and get somebody like Tielemans.
Sancho, Tielemans and Torres will be a very good window for United.
And why’s Dave still a rake after a decade and still getting bullied and generally just sits on his line to avoid contact? If you so wish to compare him to anyone. Lindelof isn’t a put your head in where it hurts defender, nor is Torres, but some think that bulking up will sort that out
It is just impossible to tell though. Dias looks a great buy in hindsight but when Portugal won the Nations League or whatever it is called there was quite a lot of buzz around him as a possible signing here and there were a ton of comments then that he was too lightweight, couldn't hack the physicality of the Prem etc. In reality you will never know until a player actually does it. I like what I have seen of Torres and I am willing to trust the judgement of our scouts and coaches if we sign him but I won't relax until I see him cope with the likes of Chris Wood from set pieces.
Lindelof 2.0 with a clinical finish, goal of the tournament stuff. Fergie, sign him up.
Three points I would make on Torres.
1) In regards to his physicality, it's important to remember that he can actually bulk up when moving to the PL, as someone like Vidic had to do when he arrived at a similar age. The important physical difference between Torres and Lindelof currently and permanently is that the former is noticeably taller, which puts him at an advantage.
2) In terms of ability on the ball, he is more than slightly better than Lindelof.
Looking at it statistically one might think their passing completion percentages suggest otherwise, with Torres 89.6% on while Lindelof is slightly ahead on 91%. But a closer look shows a difference is how they pass.
In terms of per 90min:
Progressive Passes: Torres 3.83, Lindelof 2.91
Progressive passing distance: Torres 395.73, Lindelof 356.58.
Passes under pressure: Torres 6.35, Lindelof 5.03
Long passes attempted: Torres 14.62, Lindelof 9.80.
Etc, etc. In other words Torres is much more progressive in terms of his passing game.
In combination, he's also much more aggressive in terms of how he carries the ball.
Dribbles attempted: Torres 0.82, Lindelof 0.17
Dribbles success: Torres 85%, Lindelof 37.5%
Players dribbled past: Torres 0.74, Lindelof 0.08
Progressive carry distance: Torres 211.86, Lindelof 176.76
It becomes clear at that point why Torres is so rated for what he does on the ball. He offers a lot more in that regard than someone like Lindelof.
3) In terms of aerial ability, the basic stats would again suggest an issue. In terms of aerial duels won in their domestic league this season: Torres 60.6% , Lindelof 65.7%.
The issue with basing our opinion off that one stat becomes clear when we take a deeper look at their previous seasons' data though.
Comparing that same stat over previous seasons for three key defenders.
Lindelof: 33.3%, 65.1%, 66.0%, 65.7%.
Kounde: 68.8%, 54.9%, 74.5%, 63.8%.
Torres: 47.4%, 60.6%.
Three points to note there.
1) We are basing our assessment of Torres off a very small sample size.
2) The older, more experienced and settled Lindelof has established a more stable baseline for what we can expect in this regard than the younger CBs.
3) Significant improvements are possible, particularly for the younger CBs. We see it in the difference between Torres this season and last (47.4% vs 60.6%), Lindelof in his first season at United versus his second (33.3% vs 65.1%) and Kounde's rather erratic changes in success rate both up and down.
When you consider the rapid improvement we've seen from him in the space of one season allied with Torres' physical advantage and potential to develop further physically, it wouldn't be at all surprising if he immediately proved to be better aerially than Lindelof despite that one stat from this season. I certainly wouldn't take it as read that that one stat from one season provides an accurate representation of his ability in that regard. Particularly as (purely subjectively) he doesn't look that vulnerable to me.
None of that means Torres should be opted for over someone like the more ready-made Varane imo. But as an alternative if we can't get Varane, I think he looks very promising. If he were to develop into his frame as Vidic did and/or continue improving aerially as he did this season (and as even Lindelof did upon arriving here) then he could be an excellent CB, particularly as we are a side who look to play out from the back. The issues is that as with someone like Vidic, that would likely mean an adjustment period.
1) In regards to his physicality, it's important to remember that he can actually bulk up when moving to the PL, as someone like Vidic had to do when he arrived at a similar age. The important physical difference between Torres and Lindelof currently and permanently is that the former is noticeably taller, which puts him at an advantage.
2) In terms of ability on the ball, he is more than slightly better than Lindelof.
Looking at it statistically one might think their passing completion percentages suggest otherwise, with Torres 89.6% on while Lindelof is slightly ahead on 91%. But a closer look shows a difference is how they pass.
In terms of per 90min:
Progressive Passes: Torres 3.83, Lindelof 2.91
Progressive passing distance: Torres 395.73, Lindelof 356.58.
Passes under pressure: Torres 6.35, Lindelof 5.03
Long passes attempted: Torres 14.62, Lindelof 9.80.
Etc, etc. In other words Torres is much more progressive in terms of his passing game.
In combination, he's also much more aggressive in terms of how he carries the ball.
Dribbles attempted: Torres 0.82, Lindelof 0.17
Dribbles success: Torres 85%, Lindelof 37.5%
Players dribbled past: Torres 0.74, Lindelof 0.08
Progressive carry distance: Torres 211.86, Lindelof 176.76
It becomes clear at that point why Torres is so rated for what he does on the ball. He offers a lot more in that regard than someone like Lindelof.
3) In terms of aerial ability, the basic stats would again suggest an issue. In terms of aerial duels won in their domestic league this season: Torres 60.6% , Lindelof 65.7%.
The issue with basing our opinion off that one stat becomes clear when we take a deeper look at their previous seasons' data though.
Comparing that same stat over previous seasons for three key defenders.
Lindelof: 33.3%, 65.1%, 66.0%, 65.7%.
Kounde: 68.8%, 54.9%, 74.5%, 63.8%.
Torres: 47.4%, 60.6%.
Three points to note there.
1) We are basing our assessment of Torres off a very small sample size.
2) The older, more experienced and settled Lindelof has established a more stable baseline for what we can expect in this regard than the younger CBs.
3) Significant improvements are possible, particularly for the younger CBs. We see it in the difference between Torres this season and last (47.4% vs 60.6%), Lindelof in his first season at United versus his second (33.3% vs 65.1%) and Kounde's rather erratic changes in success rate both up and down.
When you consider the rapid improvement we've seen from him in the space of one season allied with Torres' physical advantage and potential to develop further physically, it wouldn't be at all surprising if he immediately proved to be better aerially than Lindelof despite that one stat from this season. I certainly wouldn't take it as read that that one stat from one season provides an accurate representation of his ability in that regard. Particularly as (purely subjectively) he doesn't look that vulnerable to me.
None of that means Torres should be opted for over someone like the more ready-made Varane imo. But as an alternative if we can't get Varane, I think he looks very promising. If he were to develop into his frame as Vidic did and/or continue improving aerially as he did this season (and as even Lindelof did upon arriving here) then he could be an excellent CB, particularly as we are a side who look to play out from the back. The issues is that as with someone like Vidic, that would likely mean an adjustment period.
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Looked like a messy goal I'd win an online FIFA match with seconds before my opponent rage quits.
World Class.
World Class.
I called Dias and wanted him before Maguire. Never thought he was lightweight. Torres does though, his lack of aerial strength is the biggest concern, that should be a priority in my opinion based on how weak we are at set pieces.
Pics or it never happened.
Seriously though I was not specifically talking about you but rather pointing out that every criticism being thrown at Torres was thrown at Dias too and until you actually see them take the step it is all just opinion.
Fair, so far what I have seen from his Spain & Villarreal games, he don't seem to "enjoy" the nasty athletic battles - he could build himself to be ready for them, but if that doesn't come natural at his age already, it's hard to learn.
I get your point but I think his aerial weakness should definitely be a concern. It's hard to see how that would ever become a strength if he's not demonstrating it already.
FYI
#1,635
bsCallout
Full Member
I'd say get Dias in, he's a RCB, young, good on the ball. Played for Benfica like Lindelof and wouldn't be as hard to do as Maguire who is over priced. Then get Fernandes in for the Portuguese factor.
On the thead - Harry Maguire | Signed
Percentage aerials is relatively irrelevant if you don’t take in to account how many aerials attempts a player has. Better to look at won aerials as example. Torres is among the worst CBs in Spain in that department. Doesn’t mean he can’t improve, it it’s obviously a concern if one wants to replace Lindelof with someone better in the air.
Genuinely don't follow. Why would percentage of aerial duels won be relatively irrelevant?
Obviously total aerials won will massively favour whoever faces more aerial duels, so it doesn't make sense to me to use that instead. In which case you account for that discrepancy by making it a percentage of duels faced, I would have thought.
Paul Torres.
Yes to some extent you are right. A CB in a dominant team or a team which is good at shutting down crosses, etc, will not be exposed for so many aerials.
But Torres has won among absolute least aerials of all CBs in la Liga over the last two seasons. That is still a warning signal imo.
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Good breakdown.
If we sign him and he improves on his strength, his height alone is a good enough foundation for aerial ability. Sometimes it's not about 'winning' the ball but making it uncomfortable enough so that the opposition player doesn't dictate the flow of the ball.
The issue here is that many and truly many disregarded Dias when he was at Benfica and look how it's turned out.
Pow Torres.
started the two first matches in Euro, but now second match in a row outside the starting xi. Anybody know why?
May be he is a left footed like Laporte and the coach wanted to have a right footed with Garcia. He played well during the two games
Can't sign him now based on Sancho logic
I think Azpilcueta was out first two games and now he’s back Enrique prefers Azpi-Garcia to Llorente-Torres in the back line
Yes you’re right, kind of lose the benefits with a left footed if you play two of them.
Could be the reasons even if it was Laporte who played with Lorentz, at least against Sweden.
Use the footy forum for player performance comments
Cause hes shite
Spain looked very weak defensively before and after he came on in the 72nd minute. He and Laporte were given the runaround by Croatia's attacking subs
Absolutely do not want. Lindelof MKII
This
Can’t see him adapting to physicality of Prem league. He is elegant on the ball that’s it.
Going by reports, he is our backup option to Varane. Lets pray we get Varane, because Torres is bang average. I am not even sure he is an overall upgrade on Lindelöf. Would be another 50-60m waste.
I’d rather stick with what we’ve got than waste £50 million on this guy.
I think we’re all in agreement he’s not the right one for the PL
Yes. He’s the same sort of level as Lindelof, same sort of attributes, and weaknesses. He might be marginally better… but not worth spending £40-50m to find out.
Nah, he's class and being linked with both us and Real for very good reason.
He's just not as good an option as Varane. Particularly as even though I rate him I still think he'd need to adapt to the PL and add muscle, which takes time.
The caf just has a Lindelof obsession atm and sees everything through that lense. When in reality he has as much or more in common stylistically and in terms of potential with someone like Laporte, who he is more normally compared to outside of Man Utd forums.
Though if we were being linked to 23 year old Laporte now then I suppose people would be saying he's Lindelof 2.0 too, which shows how dodgy a comparison that can be as Laporte would obviously waltz into our team ahead of Lindelof.
He's just not as good an option as Varane. Particularly as even though I rate him I still think he'd need to adapt to the PL and add muscle, which takes time.
The caf just has a Lindelof obsession atm and sees everything through that lense. When in reality he has as much or more in common stylistically and in terms of potential with someone like Laporte, who he is more normally compared to outside of Man Utd forums.
Though if we were being linked to 23 year old Laporte now then I suppose people would be saying he's Lindelof 2.0 too, which shows how dodgy a comparison that can be as Laporte would obviously waltz into our team ahead of Lindelof.
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Good player but seems very similar to Lindelof
I do however think if the Varane move doesn't happen we'll pay this guys release clause.
I do however think if the Varane move doesn't happen we'll pay this guys release clause.