Patrick Roberts

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Looks talented and I'd be up for buying him then loaning him back to Fulham (or another Championship team) for a year but if it's a choice between him and Depay then I'd take the latter, he's a much better player at the moment, we just aren't in the position to rely on a 18 year old kid.
 
Sarni said:
Like with Zaha and Powell before. English talent has been overhyped beyond measure for ages, a player who hasn't even featured much in Championship cannot possibly be compared with a player who has a good World Cup and a brilliant top division season under his belt.

Sterling is probably the only case where a supposed English talent has gone to a top division club and is looking like a player that might not look out of place at a genuinely big club, playing week in week out holding his place. Players like Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott have looked good at times but I wouldn't want my team to spend heavy millions on them but a number of players have failed to make an impact and have not amounted to much. There's always a risk involved because of how poor English developemnt system is compared to Spain, Germany or even Italy, Netherlands and France and how few good players England produce.

Out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Roberts play against good opposition?
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That is fair, but Depay also comes with his own set of question-marks. He is the quivalent of those players you mentioned who have done it in the Championship, as far as the Dutch league is concerned. As I said originally, I wouldn't always go for the younger, lesser-proven talent in these instances - it is a combination of me being a bit unsure of whether Depay is the right player for us, and thinking Roberts is exactly the type of winger I want us to sign, however, he is young and unproven at the top. The question then becomes how far do we think Roberts is away from his potential, and then comparing that against what we have right now. I think we have enough to wait.

You are also right in that I haven't watched Roberts play against good opposition. I don't think that is too important at his age though. He is a young player. He is coming through the reserves. He won't be signed based on how he has played against CL opposition, more a case on how he has played against his own age group, and how much better than them he looks. Roberts has been touted as the best English player of his age for a while now. While that is no guarantee, surely you would want us involved for such a player?

For the record, I wouldn't be that upset if we signed Depay instead, although I think we, and the other top clubs in the land, have an obligation to pursue such talent and get them playing CL football if their talent so permits. I'm not even one of those who is that hung up on us having English players, but where it doesn't come at a compromise in quality, then I'm all for it. It has served us well in the past.
 
I would love us to sign him and it's disappointing that he hasn't played more for Fulham. A very, very talented player.
 
khoazany said:
We used to have a similar debate (though a bit different) more than 10 years ago about CR7 and Ronaldinho.



Don't think the size is as much as a problem as his club.Kane couldn't get into the Leicester side two years ago (ok he did sometimes but he looks shit apparently) and look at him now.Sometimes you can't base on that to judge a young player.Football is not math.
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The difference is at 18 Ronaldinho was starring for a team in the top brazilian division, then even played for Brazil before he was 20. Roberts isn't even playing for Fulham's first team, no matter how "tough" the championship is, if he was good enough he would play.

The fact people are considering not signing Depay because of this kid's youtube video is quite frankly bonkers, most of those dribbles are in the Reserve league and younger!.
 
Adam-Utd said:
The difference is at 18 Ronaldinho was starring for a team in the top brazilian division, then even played for Brazil before he was 20. Roberts isn't even playing for Fulham's first team, no matter how "tough" the championship is, if he was good enough he would play.

The fact people are considering not signing Depay because of this kid's youtube video is quite frankly bonkers, most of those dribbles are in the Reserve league and younger!.
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So is there anything that could possibly justify a decision to sign a promising kid on the brink of playing first-team football over a player who is playing very well in Holland? Or is that just a blanket 'under no circumstances' sort of thing? Doesn't matter if we are talking Messi level talent or is it simply a case of 'he hasn't played Champions League football, this guy has, so we buy him'?

Do you think Juve should have gone for a more 'proven' option than signing a United reserve when they signed Pogba? Simple football mathematics would surely have told them that player B was more proven than Pogba, hence should be signed instead.
 
Rozay said:
That is fair, but Depay also comes with his own set of question-marks. He is the quivalent of those players you mentioned who have done it in the Championship, as far as the Dutch league is concerned. As I said originally, I wouldn't always go for the younger, lesser-proven talent in these instances - it is a combination of me being a bit unsure of whether Depay is the right player for us, and thinking Roberts is exactly the type of winger I want us to sign, however, he is young and unproven at the top. The question then becomes how far do we think Roberts is away from his potential, and then comparing that against what we have right now. I think we have enough to wait.

You are also right in that I haven't watched Roberts play against good opposition. I don't think that is too important at his age though. He is a young player. He is coming through the reserves. He won't be signed based on how he has played against CL opposition, more a case on how he has played against his own age group, and how much better than them he looks. Roberts has been touted as the best English player of his age for a while now. While that is no guarantee, surely you would want us involved for such a player?

For the record, I wouldn't be that upset if we signed Depay instead, although I think we, and the other top clubs in the land, have an obligation to pursue such talent and get them playing CL football if their talent so permits. I'm not even one of those who is that hung up on us having English players, but where it doesn't come at a compromise in quality, then I'm all for it. It has served us well in the past.
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I don't think Eredivisie is Championship level at all. It's not a top league by any means but Depay has also done well for his country and in European competition against decent teams plus he's really heads and shoulders above 99% of Eredivisie players at the minute. I know we've seen players like Afonso Alves and Kezman struggle elsewhere but we've also seen dozens of top class Dutch footballers making it outside the country as well as someone like Suarez who's been excellent in England and Spain having made the step up from Ajax.

I just don't think it's fair to say that you'd rather sign Roberts like that because they offer completely different things and come with different expectations. You'd expect Depay to sort of make impact from the moment he sets his foot at OT (not literally but transition period should be rather short), Roberts is a long-term project. There's no way we need a long term project more than we need a ready made player now IMO.

I think it's important how difficult he finds a step up from where he currently is to top level. As I've said, there have been dozens of Championship players who failed to make a grade at the higher level. Honestly though he cannot even be called a Championship player, he doesn't play for Fulham at all outside reserve level. At the minute I wouldn't get too involved with youngsters, we've failed too many times recently when it comes to signing very young players, we need players who can come here and add value to the team straightaway.
 
Rozay said:
So is there anything that could possibly justify a decision to sign a promising kid on the brink of playing first-team football over a player who is playing very well in Holland? Or is that just a blanket 'under no circumstances' sort of thing? Doesn't matter if we are talking Messi level talent or is it simply a case of 'he hasn't played Champions League football, this guy has, so we buy him'?

Do you think Juve should have gone for a more 'proven' option than signing a United reserve when they signed Pogba? Simple football mathematics would surely have told them that player B was more proven than Pogba, hence should be signed instead.
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Juventus got Pogba for free, I don't think I'd have issue with picking Roberts for free. It's the fact that it's been suggested we should perhaps spend heavy money on him instead of going for proven option that bothers me.
 
I've never heard of this lad till this thread, which is a bit disappointing having watched the video. Definitely a talent.

Anyone know how he played in his cameo appearances for the first team? Also I thought we could basically rob young players for nothing with the elite player something or other?
 
Adam-Utd said:
The difference is at 18 Ronaldinho was starring for a team in the top brazilian division, then even played for Brazil before he was 20. Roberts isn't even playing for Fulham's first team, no matter how "tough" the championship is, if he was good enough he would play.

The fact people are considering not signing Depay because of this kid's youtube video is quite frankly bonkers, most of those dribbles are in the Reserve league and younger!.
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Ronaldo would be the equivalent side to Roberts in the comparison...He was 17 and were far from "good enough" or proven enough for our first team back then.

I'm not comparing Roberts and Depay at all nor do I compare Roberts with Ronaldo.My point is that signing the younger less proven player won't always be a bad decision.It's who we think will turn out to be a better player that matter and that's why we have our scouts.

Doubt we will sign him this summer anyway.
 
Sarni said:
I think it's important how difficult he finds a step up from where he currently is to top level. As I've said, there have been dozens of Championship players who failed to make a grade at the higher level. Honestly though he cannot even be called a Championship player, he doesn't play for Fulham at all outside reserve level. At the minute I wouldn't get too involved with youngsters, we've failed too many times recently when it comes to signing very young players, we need players who can come here and add value to the team straightaway.
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He played for Fulham senior, just not too much due to the manager's reluctance to use a small 18 years old for his relegation battle.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Their lowly status in the big six would help too. He is more likely to get games at Liverpool or Spurs, you would have thought.

Although Louis is well known for helping young players break through.
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I don't think he would get games at any of the top premiership clubs yet - save possibly league cup etc... could see somebody signing him and loaning him back to a club in the championship though who gave a guarantee of more games and played a more possession based game.
 
khoazany said:
He played for Fulham senior, just not too much due to the manager's reluctance to use a small 18 years old for his relegation battle.
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It doesn't really matter for me why he doesn't play. I don't deny that he could be a brilliant talent that's not playing because of his mismanagement at Fulham, I'm merely pointing out that there's very little to go by if we're going to sign him right now and fit him into the team. I'm not saying we shouldn't sign him, I'm only saying that we shouldn't do this at the expense of Depay because they vastly differ in terms of what they could potentially bring to the team and when.
 
Rozay said:
Chelsea have done this successfully for a while. He could theoretically be loaned out for another year or so.



I may sound silly, but given that I am not entirely sold on Depay just yet, and I have said many times that I would prefer a more direct dribbler like Moura or Costa - I'd probably choose Roberts. From what I've seen of him - he has a greater potential than Depay, and is the 'type' of winger I would prefer. Also, I can't help but to add his 'Englishness' as an extra credit in his favour.

I think with Di Maria and Mata as regulars, plus Januzaj and Young behind, we could get through another season with what we have. Roberts doesn't look like your regular 'promising player' too - he seems extra special, like a Raheem Sterling level talent. For an English player if this nature, I think you can justify taking a chance on him, they are so rare.
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You are crazy and englishness is overrated.
 
khoazany said:
Ronaldo would be the equivalent side to Roberts in the comparison...He was 17 and were far from "good enough" or proven enough for our first team back then.

I'm not comparing Roberts and Depay at all nor do I compare Roberts with Ronaldo.My point is that signing the younger less proven player won't always be a bad decision.It's who we think will turn out to be a better player that matter and that's why we have our scouts.

Doubt we will sign him this summer anyway.
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No, it really isn't. Ronaldo was playing well for Sporting at that time, and was playing for Portugal age 18. Roberts hasn't had more than 10 appearances for a quite average Fulham team. If he really was the new golden boy of English football like you keep making out, he would be doing well for them. Sterling is small, Lennon was small, but they still manage to play well enough.

I am not doubting he has plenty of talent and can clearly run well with the ball, but he is nowhere near ready to be playing for us!. He should stay at Fulham, actually get into their first team, play a season or 2 and then decide to move on.
 
Adam-Utd said:
No, it really isn't. Ronaldo was playing well for Sporting at that time, and was playing for Portugal age 18. Roberts hasn't had more than 10 appearances for a quite average Fulham team. If he really was the new golden boy of English football like you keep making out, he would be doing well for them. Sterling is small, Lennon was small, but they still manage to play well enough.

I am not doubting he has plenty of talent and can clearly run well with the ball, but he is nowhere near ready to be playing for us!. He should stay at Fulham, actually get into their first team, play a season or 2 and then decide to move on.
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When did I say he's ready to play for us?My point is signing a player merely because of his long-term prospect instead of a more ready-made player sometimes does worth it.I didn't necessarily think that Roberts is a better signing than Depay (I do rate Depay), I'm just trying to disprove the notion of "we should always sign a player that can offer for the first team straightaway instead of some raw kids".

Ronaldo clearly wasn't ready in his first two seasons for us as well although it's a different situation from Roberts.The similarity here is both have massive talents and we could/can sign much more "proven" or "safe" options instead of them.
 
khoazany said:
If the question is Roberts or Depay, who will you choose?
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Roberts, because I still can't get my head around buying Depay when we already have Januzaj.

Roberts is basically the brightest attacking talent in English youth football at the moment, and sometimes you just have to go for those special, special players regardless of who you have ahead of them. He could potentially be a Rooney-esque signing.
 
Brightonian said:
Roberts, because I still can't get my head around buying Depay when we already have Januzaj.

Roberts is basically the brightest attacking talent in English youth football at the moment, and sometimes you just have to go for those special, special players regardless of who you have ahead of them. He could potentially be a Rooney-esque signing.
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Eh? so buying Depay who plays on the opposite wing of Januzaj is a problem, but signing a kid who plays on the right like Januzaj isnt?. Doesn't make much sense if your worried about Januzaj.
 
If he's less then 10m then we should buy him and loan him out for a year or two. If Dyke's rule kicks in then we will need a strong contingent of English players.
 
Adam-Utd said:
So can Depay, he just prefers the right so he can cut in and shoot/cross.
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Ok, so they would be in clear competition for playing time, which was my point.

Roberts is four years younger and at a different stage in his development, so there wouldn't be such an obvious conflict.
 
limerickcitykid said:
He's only just turned 18 and is about the size of a 12 year old. Fulham are down near the relegation zone and the Championship can be a very physical league, most managers won't be playing a kid much in those circumstances, talented or not.
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Barkley went on loan to the Championship a much less built figure than he is now and it helped him massively in his development. Not hindered his dribbling either by being as big as he is. I think you're right in that it's because Fulham are near the relegation zone as if they were a bit higher in the division they should give him a chance.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Only a year left on his contract and he rejected a new one. Fulham fans think he'll go for less than 10m.
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Which he should at this point, he's barely had more than 10 minute cameos for them so far. 2 championship starts where he hasn't done anything yet
 
Ekeke said:
Which he should at this point, he's barely had more than 10 minute cameos for them so far. 2 championship starts where he hasn't done anything yet
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Agreed, and all the more reason why I hope we're in for him. I doubt it would take more than £5mil.
 
I am all for signing him and then sending him somewhere to develop. No point letting him sit in the reserves though.
 
Brightonian said:
Agreed, and all the more reason why I hope we're in for him. I doubt it would take more than £5mil.
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Yeah he's exactly what you're looking for when it comes to taking a chance on a young talented English player. He clearly has something about him, but he's not yet managed to show it on a first team stage so he's not getting too overhyped for some sensible, reasonable financial business
 
If he goes for the reported £15m, I suspect at least half of it would be in variable add-ons.
 
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