Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances

Cutch said:
The Athletic suggesting he played on the right so Amorim could coach him through the first half on his side
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I said this at the game. Amorim was talking to him a lot, I think he wanted to keep him close to help him understand the role. Obviously he didn’t want to go full Jose and say this to the media. But he was telling him when to drop, when to press and where to move when we had possession.
 
Cutch said:
The Athletic suggesting he played on the right so Amorim could coach him through the first half on his side
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Sounds plausible at least. I am happy that he got action so early and I think, he did alright for the short time he is with the team. Hope to see him on a regular basis from now on.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
But we still had two inverted WB's in the second half and played better - the difference was Garnacho did a lot more in the #10 role than Mainoo or Amad did in the first.

You don't seem to count left footed Amad playing at RWB as much of an inverted issue as left footed Dorgu playing there, which I'm not sure why. The big issue with WB's for me now is our right footers - Dalot and Mazraoui - not being great at the role whichever side they play. I'm happy with Dorgu and Amad on either side, as they provide an attacking threat on the ball.

I'd be happy with Dorgu on the left and Amad on the right - not because of which foot they use, but because they look to be the two who can provide much more attacking threat - both individually, and linking up with others.
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But in the second half we had both amad and garnacho on the pitch so we had two players capable of stretching play and beating players. I also think we moved further away from amorims system which si what helped us.

I think with amad at rwb we are ok because he can still go down the outside whereas dalot just cuts inside and plays a simple pass, dorgu did this as well to an extent. It just leaves us with no width

The biggest issue is that we look best we appear to be moving away from amorims system somewhat and playing with width rather than trying ti squeeze players into roles they don't suit
 
DavelinaJolie said:
Isn't Quenda predominantly left footed as well, but Amorim played him at RWB?
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Yeah. Amad is also a left footer and has done well there - I don't think there's an inherent problem playing a left footer in that position if they have the right characteristics. Both Quenda and Amad are agile players who look good with the ball in tight spaces.

I'm not convinced the same is true for Dorgu, I think he'd look more comfortable on the other side when there's more opportunity for him to open his body up.
 
pocco said:
I was there and you could see him talking to him constantly. Also, he played a lot on the right for Lecce, it’s not an unfamiliar position for him.
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The point is we have been desperate for a left footed lwb not an inverted right wing back
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Was hoping he'd play LWB but I really wasn't surprised to see him on the right - much more surprised how puzzled so many seem about it.

Amorim likes inverted WB's (at Sporting as well), whenever left-footed Amad has started WB it's been on the right, and Dorgu often played from the right, cutting in onto his left foot, at Lecce.

So really not a particularly surprising decision. But after so rarely having a left footed full back on the left with the lengthy injuries to Shaw and Malacia, I was hoping to see Dorgu on the left making driving runs forward. Hopefully we will sometimes, but we'll definitely also see him (and Amad) at RWB as well.

Thought he did OK in his first game - but tough to judge as the team were so awful in that first half that it wasn't a fair half to judge him on.
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Amorim played left footed RWB in sporting but he didn’t play right footed LWB in sporting. So the right option today should have been playing Dorgu on the left while Amad on the right. Not Dorgu on the right and Dalot on the left, double inverted wingbacks didn’t make sense. I’m not sure what’s the objective in term of tactic to play double inverted wingbacks especially playing Mainoo as 10, which makes the left flank with no width in first half.
 
JE-365 said:
Amorim played left footed RWB in sporting but he didn’t play right footed LWB in sporting. So the right option today should have been playing Dorgu on the left while Amad on the right. Not Dorgu on the right and Dalot on the left, double inverted wingbacks didn’t make sense. I’m not sure what’s the objective in term of tactic to play double inverted wingbacks especially playing Mainoo as 10, which makes the left flank with no width in first half.
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Fair point about Sporting. But Amorim has plenty of times played double inverted wing backs with us though so far - Dalot on left, Amad on right. And indeed still did that in the second half when we were better.

The difference in the second half wasn't in the WB areas - it was Garnacho playing so well in the #10 role, far better than Mainoo and Amad in the first half. There was also a tweak in tactics and speed of getting the ball forward - again, though, that's all typical of us this season as we score so few first half goals and much more in the 2nd half. So thats an ongoing issue and nothing to do with playing Dorgu RWB for one half.

I'll be perfectly happy to see Dorgu LWB and Amad RWB - and I'm sure we well at times amid all the rotation. Though the main reason I want that is not so much because of which feet they prefer, and whether they're inverted or not, just because they're both clearly our best WBs and much more suited to the role - from an attacking point of view - than our right footers, Dalot and Mazraoui.
 
I quite liked what I seen.

Not a fan of two inverted players on the same side though.

If it's worked at Sporting I can't shake the feeling that it may have worked for Sporting just because they were better than everyone else, despite it being unbalanced.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Fair point about Sporting. But Amorim hasplenty of times played double inverted wing backs with us though so far - Dalot on left, Amad on right. And indeed still did that in the second half when we were better.
The difference in the second half wasn't in the WB areas - it was Garnacho playing so well in the #10 role, far better than Mainoo and Amad in the first half. There was also a tweak in tactics and speed of getting the ball forward - again, though, that's all typical of us this season as we score so few first half goals and much more in the 2nd half. So thats an ongoing issue and nothing to do with playing Dorgu RWB for one half.

I'll be perfectly happy to see Dorgu LWB and Amad RWB - and I'm sure we well at times amid all the rotation. Though the main reason I want that is not so much because of which feet they prefer, and whether they're inverted or not, just because they're both clearly our best WBs and much more suited to the role - from an attacking point of view - than our right footers, Dalot and Mazraoui.
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That’s because he doesn’t have left footed one at United. That’s why the club gave him the left footed one. But inverted wingbacks isn’t the point anyway. The point or what I said the difference is in first half we have no player exploit the width on the left because we played inverted left wingback (Dalot) on the left and Mainoo as L10, both players don’t have the ability like wingers or wingback to exploit the width on the left side!

Garnacho came on made the difference because he has the ability to exploit the width. That’s why the second half was better because we have more balance in both sides as we finally have players who could exploit the width. The one who exploited the width on the left was Garnacho as L10, while the one who exploited the width on the right was Amad as RWB.

So if in first half, we have Mainoo or Bruno as L10 but has left wingback who can exploit the width by running down with pace like Dorgu, while Amad exploited the width on the right side, our first half would have been much better because we would have the balance in both flanks.
 
Dominos said:
I quite liked what I seen.

Not a fan of two inverted players on the same side though.

If it's worked at Sporting I can't shake the feeling that it may have worked for Sporting just because they were better than everyone else, despite it being unbalanced.
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Hm that's a good point. I came in here and wanted to say he's trying to emulate a Quenda type player at RWB, so expect more of Dalot at LWB.

I think it'll work -- the ultimate goal is to overload the center and have the ball funnel into the center. Having two left footers there will do that. Dorgu also seems comfortable going down the line so that should help too.
 
Teja said:
Hm that's a good point. I came in here and wanted to say he's trying to emulate a Quenda type player at RWB, so expect more of Dalot at LWB.

I think it'll work -- the ultimate goal is to overload the center and have the ball funnel into the center. Having two left footers there will do that. Dorgu also seems comfortable going down the line so that should help too.
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Overloading the center only works if the players can play through the center and drive the ball through that part of the pitch. We don’t have a single player that’s willing to do so as of now. Everything is built down the sides where it’s comically easy for teams to send and extra man to deal with us.
 
Matt851 said:
The point is we have been desperate for a left footed lwb not an inverted right wing back
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it’s ridiculous to cry out for a left footed wing back to allow our right footed wing back to play on the actual right and then keep them the same
 
He has to be used as a LWB especially when our left wing options are Garnacho and Mainoo. Both of whom prefer to move centrally. Mainoo in particular would really benefit from having a player providing width and breaking the lines with his passing range.
 
Didn’t see the game but could it be that Amorim didn’t want him to get exposed defensively on left hand side without an experienced CB covering for him? Wasn’t Yoro playing as LCB? If so, makes sense to pair Dorgu-Mazzarouli on right side and Dalot-Yoro on left, to have one experienced player each.
 
Acquire Me said:
Well done. Can’t wait to see more. I think him and Amad can make magic together.
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I think Amad is better as a wingback in this system. And because wingbacks are so important in this system, Dorgu should play on the left. The two of them can make our play much better simply because they will occupy two of the most important positions to making us tick.
 
Maybe Amorim is on to something.

You have right footed wingers playing on the left and vice versa all the time as it’s easier to cut back in and dribble and harder to defend against.

Maybe he feels the same holds true for wingbacks who can cut back in and link up better with the forward players.

Maybe he’s ahead of his time. Let’s see how it plays out (need a better WB than Dalot or Maz)
 
Physically he did not look out of place at all and he played well. He would have been even more impactful in his natural position.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Was hoping he'd play LWB but I really wasn't surprised to see him on the right - much more surprised how puzzled so many seem about it.

Amorim likes inverted WB's (at Sporting as well), whenever left-footed Amad has started WB it's been on the right, and Dorgu often played from the right, cutting in onto his left foot, at Lecce.

So really not a particularly surprising decision. But after so rarely having a left footed full back on the left with the lengthy injuries to Shaw and Malacia, I was hoping to see Dorgu on the left making driving runs forward. Hopefully we will sometimes, but we'll definitely also see him (and Amad) at RWB as well.

Thought he did OK in his first game - but tough to judge as the team were so awful in that first half that it wasn't a fair half to judge him on.
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Yep. What we've seen from Amorim so far is that he tends to play the more defensive wingbacks (Malacia and Mazraoui) on the side of their stronger foot, while the more attacking wingbacks (Amad, Antony and Garnacho) play on the side of their weaker foot so they can cut in. Dalot then kind of just fit in whichever side is free. I believe he did something similar at Sporting, although someone more knowledgeable on that might correct me.

I figured Dorgu would probably be another one who would play on either side depending on who the other wingback was, so seeing him on the right isn't surprising. I do admit that I thought when playing with Dalot it'd probably be Dorgu on the left, but that's more due to Dalot than Dorgu. But I expect there will be games where we play Dorgu and Amad at wingbacks and he'll be on the left then.
 
Matt851 said:
The point is we have been desperate for a left footed lwb not an inverted right wing back
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RWB is just as big an issue when Amad isn't there. So at times that Amad is playing at #10 it's a 50/50 as to which side Dorgu should be. Indeed perhaps he was on the right so that he could link up with Amad, which did happen a few times and was the only remotely good thing to come from the first half.
 
CG1010 said:
Didn’t see the game but could it be that Amorim didn’t want him to get exposed defensively on left hand side without an experienced CB covering for him? Wasn’t Yoro playing as LCB? If so, makes sense to pair Dorgu-Mazzarouli on right side and Dalot-Yoro on left, to have one experienced player each.
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Yoro actually played on the right in the first half, so he and Dorgu were on the same side. Yoro and Mazraoui then switched at halftime so Yoro went to the left after Dorgu got subbed.
 
Kramer said:
Maybe Amorim is on to something.

You have right footed wingers playing on the left and vice versa all the time as it’s easier to cut back in and dribble and harder to defend against.

Maybe he feels the same holds true for wingbacks who can cut back in and link up better with the forward players.

Maybe he’s ahead of his time. Let’s see how it plays out (need a better WB than Dalot or Maz)
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This is what was said in Ajanalysis (I don't know if he is on redcafe).

A left footed RB can take the ball on his left foot and decide to cut in or take the ball on the outside.

Mazroui who is right footed can't cut in because he receives the ball on his right foot when trying to cut in and can only end up passing backwards.

It's similar to play Amad at RWB - he is left footed so can cut in taking his man on from the inside or take his man on the outside. However, a right footed Antonio Valencia can only take his player on the outside, everytime he cuts in, he can't and has to make a backwards pass.

Inverted wingbacks is about getting wingbacks that can both play wide and make runs centrally.

I think we have been seeing this with Dalot recently - he is usually found with pockets of space in the LW, the only issue is Dalot doesn't do much with it as of yet.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
This is what was said in Ajanalysis (I don't know if he is on redcafe).

A left footed RB can take the ball on his left foot and decide to cut in or take the ball on the outside.

Mazroui who is right footed can't cut in because he receives the ball on his right foot when trying to cut in and can only end up passing backwards.

It's similar to play Amad at RWB - he is left footed so can cut in taking his man on from the inside or take his man on the outside. However, a right footed Antonio Valencia can only take his player on the outside, everytime he cuts in, he can't and has to make a backwards pass.

Inverted wingbacks is about getting wingbacks that can both play wide and make runs centrally.

I think we have been seeing this with Dalot recently - he is usually found with pockets of space in the LW, the only issue is Dalot doesn't do much with it as of yet.
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Are we sure the point is to have inverted wing backs in an ideal case? I thought it made sense with Garnacho as one of the 10s because he would vacate the inside and go wide. So it made sense that we needed someone inside, hence the inverted wing back. I feel like Amad at wingback holds width and goes forward far more often than any other player and that's why it works so well.
 
Thought he did pretty well.

I just worry that mentally being taken off at half time 1-0 down and then we go on to win it might affect him. As if he might think that it was his fault.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
This is what was said in Ajanalysis (I don't know if he is on redcafe).

A left footed RB can take the ball on his left foot and decide to cut in or take the ball on the outside.

Mazroui who is right footed can't cut in because he receives the ball on his right foot when trying to cut in and can only end up passing backwards.

It's similar to play Amad at RWB - he is left footed so can cut in taking his man on from the inside or take his man on the outside. However, a right footed Antonio Valencia can only take his player on the outside, everytime he cuts in, he can't and has to make a backwards pass.

Inverted wingbacks is about getting wingbacks that can both play wide and make runs centrally.

I think we have been seeing this with Dalot recently - he is usually found with pockets of space in the LW, the only issue is Dalot doesn't do much with it as of yet.
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People can come up with explanations for anything. Rhe fact is the team looks a mess and the coach needs to simplify things rather than coming up with increasingly complicated solutions to the fact his system doesn't suit half the team.

Dorgu didn't look particularly comfortable going down the outside on his wrong foot to me either
 
Camy89 said:
Thought he did pretty well.

I just worry that mentally being taken off at half time 1-0 down and then we go on to win it might affect him. As if he might think that it was his fault.
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He’ll come to realise that we’re just second half FC the more he’s around the club
 
CM said:
Yeah. Amad is also a left footer and has done well there - I don't think there's an inherent problem playing a left footer in that position if they have the right characteristics. Both Quenda and Amad are agile players who look good with the ball in tight spaces.

I'm not convinced the same is true for Dorgu, I think he'd look more comfortable on the other side when there's more opportunity for him to open his body up.
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Agree with everything you've said here

My concern with playing a left footer at RWB is if that player isn't comfortable on his right he'll just default to cutting in 99 percent of the time whereas on the left he can drive wide or cut in field.

Hope Dorgu is comfortable on his right foot or at least playing crosses in.
 
CG1010 said:
Didn’t see the game but could it be that Amorim didn’t want him to get exposed defensively on left hand side without an experienced CB covering for him? Wasn’t Yoro playing as LCB? If so, makes sense to pair Dorgu-Mazzarouli on right side and Dalot-Yoro on left, to have one experienced player each.
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Yoro seemed to be RCB with Maz LCB at least first half
 
Kramer said:
Maybe Amorim is on to something.

You have right footed wingers playing on the left and vice versa all the time as it’s easier to cut back in and dribble and harder to defend against.

Maybe he feels the same holds true for wingbacks who can cut back in and link up better with the forward players.

Maybe he’s ahead of his time. Let’s see how it plays out (need a better WB than Dalot or Maz)
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With inverted wingers you'll often see overlapping fullbacks providing the width. We don't have that when we're only playing wingbacks.
Amad works on his "wrong" side because he's at his best receiving the ball on the touchline and carrying it going either side of the opponent.
Quenda for Sporting also seems to pick up the ball very wide even though he's on the right as well.

It kinda works on the other side when Garnacho is playing as one of the AMs because he drifts wide. But that then requires the wingback to get forward quickly to act as the link between the now wide AM and the striker. Otherwise all our attackers get isolated.
I think Dorgu is quite happy to go both inside and outside when he's playing on the left. Let's see what Amorim has in mind.
 
Andy_Cole said:
I actually thought he was a right footed left back. So he’s a left footed right back?
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He's mainly played left back in his career so far. This season he's played more on the right wing than left back, but I don't know if that was because Lecce didn't have anyone else for the right wing.
 
Him at LWB and Amad at RWB should provide the perfect balance and give us far more attacking intent.

Please Ruben give Dalot a few games off
 
CG1010 said:
Didn’t see the game but could it be that Amorim didn’t want him to get exposed defensively on left hand side without an experienced CB covering for him? Wasn’t Yoro playing as LCB? If so, makes sense to pair Dorgu-Mazzarouli on right side and Dalot-Yoro on left, to have one experienced player each.
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No, he played Yoro RCB in the first half, with Maz out of position at LCB. It was only after Dorgu went off that he also switched them (both played well in the second half).
 
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