Patrick Dorgu | 2024/25 Performances

[bosnian_red]

Hang on, are people actually writing him off already or just taking the mick? Surely we can give the lad 6months to settle in before thinking long term.

I think he looks a decent player who came in at a reasonable price on a low wage. We'll need a good few more of those before this squad turns around.

It's a talent question, sometimes you can quickly see what a player has. He's ok. You can't keep spending 40m on ok players. You need some of the players in your team to be really talented, Dorgu I'd say is someone who could be signed by pretty much any of the 10 mid table teams in the league and nobody would think anything of it. He's a left back, we needed a left back so fine. He's not really a wing back.

 

[Doracle]

Looks a specialised LWB as he has a great engine and gets into good positions but seems relatively average paced, not the best on the ball and not that strong defensively. If we change formation, he might improve to be an option at LB but I don’t see him as a winger at this level.

 

[OleGunnar20]

It's a talent question, sometimes you can quickly see what a player has. He's ok. You can't keep spending 40m on ok players. You need some of the players in your team to be really talented, Dorgu I'd say is someone who could be signed by pretty much any of the 10 mid table teams in the league and nobody would think anything of it. He's a left back, we needed a left back so fine. He's not really a wing back.

Absolutely fair enough if that's your read of him, I disagree and think he has the potential to be a very good Premier league left back. I think £30m and low wages is a good signing if he even becomes a consistent 6-7/10 kind of player.

I don't think he's a home run so agree with the mid-table wouldn't bat an eye lid point. I didn't bat an eye lid at Kerkez, Robertson, Robinson etc (they were cheaper of course so a little different) but they'd all be very good players for us at the moment.

Anyway, I'm keeping an open mind and hoping he steadily improves while quite liking what I've seen so far. Fingers crossed ey!

 

[Crimson King]

It's a talent question, sometimes you can quickly see what a player has. He's ok. You can't keep spending 40m on ok players. You need some of the players in your team to be really talented, Dorgu I'd say is someone who could be signed by pretty much any of the 10 mid table teams in the league and nobody would think anything of it. He's a left back, we needed a left back so fine. He's not really a wing back.

We didn't pay 40m though

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's a talent question, sometimes you can quickly see what a player has. He's ok. You can't keep spending 40m on ok players. You need some of the players in your team to be really talented, Dorgu I'd say is someone who could be signed by pretty much any of the 10 mid table teams in the league and nobody would think anything of it. He's a left back, we needed a left back so fine. He's not really a wing back.

How did Vidic and Evra get on at the start of their careers?

This is a young player, who had never even played in European competition until yesterday coming from a team near the bottom of the Italian league - and has played 3-4 times.

No, you can’t judge a player and their talent so quickly.

 

[bond19821982]

How did Vidic and Evra get on at the start of their careers?

This is a young player, who had never even played in European competition until yesterday coming from a team near the bottom of the Italian league - and has played 3-4 times.

No, you can’t judge a player and their talent so quickly.

Point is, he isn't ready. another position where we needed a ready made player

Kid could become a legend and he has potential. Nothing against him but another signing where we should have waited and signed the right profile (age wise)

 

[bosnian_red]

How did Vidic and Evra get on at the start of their careers?

This is a young player, who had never even played in European competition until yesterday coming from a team near the bottom of the Italian league - and has played 3-4 times.

No, you can’t judge a player and their talent so quickly.

I'm fine with Dorgu, we were desperate for a left back. But I don't think he'll ever be a standout there which is fine. My general point was that he also wasn't that cheap and it was still a pretty expensive transfer for just an average talent. Evra and Vidic were cheap signings who hit the jackpot and turned world class.

How effective he can become as a player of course can change, but he's not going to become Marcelo or anything. He can be a solid all rounder, I don't think there's anything at all to his game that suggests he can be more than that. Somewhere between Dalot and Wan Bissaka, just hopefully the good versions of them and not the bad.

We didn't pay 40m though

My bad, €35m after add ons.

 

[groovyalbert]

I think expecting more from Lecce's LB who only just turned 20 this season is a bit unrealistic. He's shown promise and is clearly raw. He'll definitely improve - the only concern I think could justifiably be raised is his quality on the ball. I don't know how much technical development really occurs from this point forward in a player's career.

 

[bosnian_red]

Point is, he isn't ready. another position where we needed a ready made player

Kid could become a legend and he has potential. Nothing against him but another signing where we should have waited and signed the right profile (age wise)

I also don't think he's a wing back, he looks far more like a standard full back without the attacking qualities that you would think a wing back needs.

 

[bosnian_red]

I think expecting more from Lecce's LB who only just turned 20 this season is a bit unrealistic. He's shown promise and is clearly raw. He'll definitely improve - the only concern I think could justifiably be raised is his quality on the ball. I don't know how much technical development really occurs from this point forward in a player's career.

Yes that's what I'm getting at. He's nothing special on the ball and you don't go from that to Marcelo, Trent, Shaw, or anywhere close to it. He's also not Hakimi or Davies or anything special speed wise, and that doesn't change much either. He's generally decent all around without anything else. I remember Darmian got praised when he first joined, Wan Bissaka, Dalot went through good periods... To be honest i see more talent on the ball in Dalot than I do in Dorgu, and Wan Bissaka had his unreal recovery tackling ability.

So if you look at our squad now, of course he improves it. He's a left back who is fit. If you look at where do we want to get to, will he be starting then? Does he have that level in him? Of course potential is unknown, but I don't think he'll reach the level of someone like Shaw who he is essentially replacing, so in that sense it's a downgrade.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Evra and Vidic were cheap signings who hit the jackpot and turned world class.

That’s not the case. Vidic was the third most expensive player we bought over a 3 year period.

Clearly not breaking records to buy him, but he was the most expensive signing we made that season.

Remember this is nearly 20 years ago.

 

[bosnian_red]

That’s not the case. Vidic was the third most expensive player we bought over a 3 year period.

Clearly not breaking records to buy him, but he was the most expensive signing we made that season.

Remember this is nearly 20 years ago.

He was 7m! I know it was 20 years ago but we were still spending 30m on Rooney 2 years prior, 30m on Rio 4 years prior. Generally speaking for us in the mid to late 2000's, under 10m wasn't considered expensive. I guess adjusting for inflation it's about the same as the 20-30m players these days. But bargains can still be found I'd say (like I'd equate what we paid for Malacia, I think 14m to be similar to spending 7m on Vidic or Evra).

 

[MadDogg]

Yeah I’m baffled by people thinking we play defensively. We’re just so shit in attack it seems defensive

We tend to be defensive when we have Dalot and Mazraoui as the wingbacks. Maz doesn't join the attack that often, and while Dalot has games where he gets forward quite a bit (to limited effectiveness) he also has other games he doesn't.

It ends up with seven players sitting deeper while the three attacking players get very isolated and easily doubled up on. Which obviously would make it harder even for top attackers, let alone our lot.

Get both our wingbacks actually getting forward a lot and that numerical set-up will look more balanced. Amad obviously did when he played wingback, and so far Dorgu is an improvement on our other options.

 

[always_hoping]

Hang on, are people actually writing him off already or just taking the mick? Surely we can give the lad 6months to settle in before thinking long term.

I think he looks a decent player who came in at a reasonable price on a low wage. We'll need a good few more of those before this squad turns around.

I agree but sadly that's the mindset with some modern day supporters with writing off any new player so soon.

I've seen numerous new signings struggle in the early stages of their careers before turning good in a winning environment under Ferguson. Right now under a diffcult environment players should be given even more time but patience simply isn't there when the team are struggling to win matches.

 

[bosnian_red]

I agree but sadly that's the mindset with some modern day supporters with writing off any new player so soon.

I've seen numerous new signings struggle in the early stages of their careers before turning good in a winning environment under Ferguson. Right now under a diffcult environment players should be given even more time but patience simply isn't there when the team are struggling to win matches.

I don't think people are saying he's shit. Not everyone has he potential to be world class and it's fine to recognize that. He's an ok talent in a position of need for us. I don't think he's anything more than that, and his potential is probably capped at "solid all rounder". It's not writing him off, it's just being realistic with his potential and expectations. The past 12 years haven't been a case of signing world class talents every window and them not hitting potential. Sure that's the case with some, but many were just .. not that special.

 

[Crimson King]

We tend to be defensive when we have Dalot and Mazraoui as the wingbacks. Maz doesn't join the attack that often, and while Dalot has games where he gets forward quite a bit (to limited effectiveness) he also has other games he doesn't.

It ends up with seven players sitting deeper while the three attacking players get very isolated and easily doubled up on. Which obviously would make it harder even for top attackers, let alone our lot.

Get both our wingbacks actually getting forward a lot and that numerical set-up will look more balanced. Amad obviously did when he played wingback, and so far Dorgu is an improvement on our other options.

Maz looks much better as a wide CB in this system. In the long run you want someone with more athleticism, but at least in this position he can play more as a conventional RB, or step up into midfield to help initial build up. At WB he's expected to overlap and put the final ball in, which is asking too much of him.

 

[Nobby style]

How did Vidic and Evra get on at the start of their careers?

This is a young player, who had never even played in European competition until yesterday coming from a team near the bottom of the Italian league - and has played 3-4 times.

No, you can’t judge a player and their talent so quickly.

How did Darmian get on in his career? Was amazed to see he was still Italy's national side's starting fullback. How shit is the full back talent in Italy when Mateo Darmian is still in the picture. Possibly our worst pos Fergie signing, and even he looked halfway decent the first few matches.

 

[groovyalbert]

Yes that's what I'm getting at. He's nothing special on the ball and you don't go from that to Marcelo, Trent, Shaw, or anywhere close to it. He's also not Hakimi or Davies or anything special speed wise, and that doesn't change much either. He's generally decent all around without anything else. I remember Darmian got praised when he first joined, Wan Bissaka, Dalot went through good periods... To be honest i see more talent on the ball in Dalot than I do in Dorgu, and Wan Bissaka had his unreal recovery tackling ability.

So if you look at our squad now, of course he improves it. He's a left back who is fit. If you look at where do we want to get to, will he be starting then? Does he have that level in him? Of course potential is unknown, but I don't think he'll reach the level of someone like Shaw who he is essentially replacing, so in that sense it's a downgrade.

Think that all totally depends on your expectation for him. Realistically, for the price we paid he doesn't have to turn into the level of the first list you referenced to justify us bringing him in. As you mentioned, he immediately improves us and didn't break the bank. It sounds a low bar but how many of our recent signings can you say that about? I think at worst he will end up a squad player who offers us a lot coming off the bench against tiring defences. He would also be a good option if/when chasing the game. It also seems from us getting him that there were enough clubs interested in him for us to recoup the fee if needed.

Also - and most importantly - of all the issues at the club worth mentioning, he's not even close nor does he make the long list.

 

[bosnian_red]

Think that all totally depends on your expectation for him. Realistically, for the price we paid he doesn't have to turn into the level of the first list you referenced to justify us bringing him in. As you mentioned, he immediately improves us and didn't break the bank. It sounds a low bar but how many of our recent signings can you say that about? I think at worst he will end up a squad player who offers us a lot coming off the bench against tiring defences. He would also be a good option if/when chasing the game. It also seems from us getting him that there were enough clubs interested in him for us to recoup the fee if needed.

Also - and most importantly - of all the issues at the club worth mentioning, he's not even close nor does he make the long list.

Yeah he's a solid player and fullbacks are important, and we've been pathetic at left back. I think he'll be better if/when we revert back to a 4 at the back system with a winger in front as I think a 3-4-2-1 will highlight his lack of attacking creativity/dribbling a bit too much (the same way it's doing to our right backs), but yeah. It's ok to feel uninspired by him, while still being ok with it. That's where I am. It's fine, we needed one to add to the squad as we had nothing the past 2 years there.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

The issue is that even his best compilation from Lecce made it obvious that he can be clumsy on the ball. Many people said that in his transfer thread. Others disagreed which is fair enough.

We wanted stamina, physicality, and someone comfortable staying wide and marshalling the whole wing. He seems to have that which is good.

I am not an expert on which skills improve from this point on and which are unlikely, but I hope ball control, short and long passing, and crossing quality improves. There will probably be at least some improvement from gelling with the rest of the team.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I was shocked how bad his overall passing, touches and crosses were, plus his overall game awareness is also very below par, like the pass he made to Bruno who was already marked and then Bruno threw a hissy fit at him. but tbf to Bruno he was marked and it was just a very poor pass.

I don't blame him, its the club's fault for spending 25M on a player who is extremely raw when you need players to actually come in and perform straight away. Why we never went for Asensio is a mystery, how easily Villa got him on loan, then you have Tel, who would have been a great option for us upfront. Lastly, It would have saved us 10M if we exercised the buyback clause for Alvaro.

 

[macheda14]

I was shocked how bad his overall passing, touches and crosses were, plus his overall game awareness is also very below par, like the pass he made to Bruno who was already marked and then Bruno threw a hissy fit at him. but tbf to Bruno he was marked and it was just a very poor pass.

I don't blame him, its the club's fault for spending 25M on a player who is extremely raw when you need players to actually come in and perform straight away. Why we never went for Asensio is a mystery, how easily Villa got him on loan, then you have Tel, who would have been a great option for us upfront. Lastly, It would have saved us 10M if we exercised the buyback clause for Alvaro.

Why is us going for an attacking midfielder and a striker relevant to Dorgu and Alvaro is a traditional full back whose one issue is his athleticism.

 

[Ekeke]

His defending was okay against Sociedad but his passing and crossing were poor and he had many loose touches that lost the ball as well. 64.3% pass accuracy from your left wingback is shocking, 4 crosses none of which were good and 0 that found a teammate and 3 unsafe touches, heavy touches that were collected by Sociedad players

Needs to vastly improve on that performance

 

[Shark]

He should be a shining example that just because we sign 5 or so players suited to this managers system this summer, doesn't mean we're going to start winning games of football. We're signing far too many project players, we need quality now.

 

[AdNani]

Hang on, are people actually writing him off already or just taking the mick? Surely we can give the lad 6months to settle in before thinking long term.

I think he looks a decent player who came in at a reasonable price on a low wage. We'll need a good few more of those before this squad turns around.

No people are writing him off, because people are fecking idiots,

 

[Ekeke]

I was really impressed that he found himself in great positions to receive the ball in space in the attacking third. If we can get a similar player on the right, the team will actually be dangerous. However, technically, he seems extremely limited. His short passing seems awful, always underhit or something. His control in tight spaces seems poor from what I have seen of him. I think €25 million was a fair price in the end, he will offer a lot but we have to accept his limitations for now and hope he can improve with coaching.

From what I saw of him at Lecce, this and finishing when using it to run through on goal were his strengths going forward. It was from the right though, so making runs inside the fullback to go through on goal and he had some cool finishes including with his right foot.

 

[TwoSheds]

Many full backs seem to be fairly bad crossers these days, but I don't think Dorgu is one of them. A bad game isn't the same as being bad at it. In his first game on the left he must have made more good crosses than Dalot does in 10 games. I think with time and patience we'll see that passing and crossing can be one of his strengths.

 

[NZT-One]

He should be a shining example that just because we sign 5 or so players suited to this managers system this summer, doesn't mean we're going to start winning games of football. We're signing far too many project players, we need quality now.

Hen and egg issue, isn't it? The quality players out there who we think could thrive in multiple roles, have good technique combined with good athelticism are very expensive, so we the easiest way to make good deals is figuring out what qualities are needed for a specific role and then pick from there. Look at Robertson and Gakpo at Liverpool, they were project players when they were brought in but flourished in a specific setting.

 

[Shark]

Many full backs seem to be fairly bad crossers these days, but I don't think Dorgu is one of them. A bad game isn't the same as being bad at it. In his first game on the left he must have made more good crosses than Dalot does in 10 games. I think with time and patience we'll see that passing and crossing can be one of his strengths.

I don't understand why we have to constantly do these floating crosses into the box. Take Patrice Evra or Valencia for example back in the day, they weren't the best at delivery but they just drilled low balls into the box and it was effective. Whatever player Sociedad brought on in the final 20 minutes or so did that and we were instantly under pressure also. Keep it simple.

 

[Shark]

Hen and egg issue, isn't it? The quality players out there who we think could thrive in multiple roles, have good technique combined with good athelticism are very expensive, so we the easiest way to make good deals is figuring out what qualities are needed for a specific role and then pick from there. Look at Robertson and Gakpo at Liverpool, they were project players when they were brought in but flourished in a specific setting.

You can afford project players when you have a team already firing and playing functioning football. We're a million miles away from that currently.

 

[Oranges038]

Hen and egg issue, isn't it? The quality players out there who we think could thrive in multiple roles, have good technique combined with good athelticism are very expensive, so we the easiest way to make good deals is figuring out what qualities are needed for a specific role and then pick from there. Look at Robertson and Gakpo at Liverpool, they were project players when they were brought in but flourished in a specific setting.

Robertson was an excellent player for Hull. It was obvious at the time he could step up and kick on at a better team.

 

[golden_blunder]

He’s 20, joined us a few weeks ago, thrown into a wildly dysfunctional team, in a new country and a faster paced league.

Yet some of you expect perfection from day one?

 

[Ekeke]

I don't understand why we have to constantly do these floating crosses into the box. Take Patrice Evra or Valencia for example back in the day, they weren't the best at delivery but they just drilled low balls into the box and it was effective. Whatever player Sociedad brought on in the final 20 minutes or so did that and we were instantly under pressure also. Keep it simple.

I think those are bad examples. Evra was a great player despite his delivery being under par. They werent very effective, but his runs and defending were. Valencia had a tendancy to cross the ball behind players but they were in the air too. He did love smashing the ball low across the floor with a cross/shot at times as well

Both would have been better players with better delivery and Dorgu should be aiming for that

 

[Hester_manc]

I saw an interview with and about Dorgu. One of his former coaches said that Dorgu has never had an injury at all. And he has a younger brother, Ifenna Dorgu, who plays for Genoa. He is only 18 years old and a United fan.

One of Dorgu's greatest strengths would be his mentality - his ability to handle a lot of pressure. I hope that's true, because the pressure at United has affected many young players over time (for example Højlund right now).

 

[NZT-One]

I don't understand why we have to constantly do these floating crosses into the box. Take Patrice Evra or Valencia for example back in the day, they weren't the best at delivery but they just drilled low balls into the box and it was effective. Whatever player Sociedad brought on in the final 20 minutes or so did that and we were instantly under pressure also. Keep it simple.

Agreed. It certainly looks as if crosses can't be something that we explicitly practice for. I mean, with the strikers we have, I kind of get it but still, quality crosses will at least put defenses under pressure and increase the likelyhood of mistakes.

You can afford project players when you have a team already firing and playing functioning football. We're a million miles away from that currently.

Thats why I think it is a hen and egg issue. I agree, we aren't firing or a functional team. The cheapest way in my eyes is to decide for a specific plan and then recruit for this plan as you could bring in players even when they have some deficits as long as the key traits are there. Maybe I misunderstand you but going for "quality players" isn't exactly very specific, certainly not obviously cheaper and I'd say something we tried to do over the last years or so. "Quality" is tricky thing as it is so unspecific and potentially even subjective. As pointed out - look at the players who looked really good for Dortmund only to fall into (relative) obscurity after they left. It is easier to function in a system. And when you function well in your role, people will consider you to be quality.

Robertson was an excellent player for Hull. It was obvious at the time he could step up and kick on at a better team.

I don't want to play him down. He might have been very good already but it was still a bit of a punt by Liverpool back then, but a calculated risk given what they have seen him being capable of. We don't know whether he would have the same standing today when for example Pep would have brought him in and expected him to invert.

 

[Oranges038]

Agreed. It certainly looks as if crosses can't be something that we explicitly practice for. I mean, with the strikers we have, I kind of get it but still, quality crosses will at least put defenses under pressure and increase the likelyhood of mistakes.


Thats why I think it is a hen and egg issue. I agree, we aren't firing or a functional team. The cheapest way in my eyes is to decide for a specific plan and then recruit for this plan as you could bring in players even when they have some deficits as long as the key traits are there. Maybe I misunderstand you but going for "quality players" isn't exactly very specific, certainly not obviously cheaper and I'd say something we tried to do over the last years or so. "Quality" is tricky thing as it is so unspecific and potentially even subjective. As pointed out - look at the players who looked really good for Dortmund only to fall into (relative) obscurity after they left. It is easier to function in a system. And when you function well in your role, people will consider you to be quality.


I don't want to play him down. He might have been very good already but it was still a bit of a punt by Liverpool back then, but a calculated risk given what they have seen him being capable of. We don't know whether he would have the same standing today when for example Pep would have brought him in and expected him to invert.

Pep used Delph and Zinchenko there and Robertson is a far better player than either of them.

He'd have been fine.

 

[Hughes35]

Meh, he looks OK so far. Definitely seem enough to warrant more time.

He's physically very good which we have been desperate for and seems to have decent delivery. Don't know why but I just get a feeling he will end up being a steady eddy, 6 out of 10 every week kind of player..... and that's not a bad thing.

 

[harms]

How did Vidic and Evra get on at the start of their careers?

This is a young player, who had never even played in European competition until yesterday coming from a team near the bottom of the Italian league - and has played 3-4 times.

No, you can’t judge a player and their talent so quickly.

Vidić (a truly outstanding World Cup qualification campaign — I think they’ve set an all-time defensive record) and Evra (CL final with Monaco) showed way more than Dorgu before they’ve signed for us.

I’m not saying that Dorgu won’t be a success but you can’t use those two as an example for every underperforming/not very impressive player. Firstly, because they’ve showed way more beforehand and secondly, because it’s not that often that a turnaround like that happens.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Vidić (a truly outstanding World Cup qualification campaign — I think they’ve set an all-time defensive record) and Evra (CL final with Monaco) showed way more than Dorgu before they’ve signed for us.

I’m not saying that Dorgu won’t be a success but you can’t use those two as an example for every underperforming/not very impressive player. Firstly, because they’ve showed way more beforehand and secondly, because it’s not that often that a turnaround like that happens.

The point is more that you shouldn’t judge players on a couple of games.

Dorgu’s first few games have been better than Evra’s. What does that tell us? Not much is the answer.

 

[harms]

The point is more that you shouldn’t judge players on a couple of games.

Dorgu’s first few games have been better than Evra’s. What does that tell us? Not much is the answer.

Dorgu hadn’t really shown anything significantly impressive throughout his entire (albeit short) career, his games for United aren’t the only ones in his professional career.

I don’t want to sound like a Dorgu hater, I think he’s a decent signing for the money (and our situation), but the point is, if he becomes a CL-level (well, PL top-4) player it’s going to be a massive surprise, not an expectation. With Vidić and Evra, those were players that had proven a lot in their pre-United career and were considered top prospects, that’s why United went for them. Using them as an argument is pointless as their situation was completely different.