Pakistan

[Shez]

Pakistan unfortunately has had to put up with successive corrupt governments for over half a century - one shouldn’t become so beholden to a government that they ignore that they’re there to serve us and not the other way round.
It’s not a bad thing that democratic tools are used to change governments (something that unfortunately doesn’t happen a lot in Pakistan) when they fail to deliver. Some successive elections and losses for the incumbent will only breed some level of accountability. Regardless of how I feel about the other parties , a no confidence vote is a democratic tool. Dissolving assemblies or martial laws aren’t

 

[Shez]

And yes the crowds and peaceful protest are heartening. It’s good to see people being engaged and actually using peaceful means to protest unlike what other parties have done in the past.
That being said, it’s a country of 220 million people. Even 1% out on the streets (lower than 2M in actuality by estimates) is the equivalent in numbers to half of Ireland protesting something

 

[Shez]

And the final thing id leave on here and after that I’m gonna refrain from commenting because as per usual while I’ve remained civil, name calling has already begun.
Do any of the people so vehemently defending the former government belong to a minority group in Pakistan? Hindus, Christians or even Muslim subsets (Shias, Ahmadis…) - if not, I’d suggest you go out and ask a few regarding how they’ve felt these past four years and how they view their safety.
The only minority that has come out better are Sikhs with the launch of the Kartarpur corridor (and that’s because their movement is confined to Nankana Saab - a place where they’ve been fairly ingrained since pre partition days - this was a good step - my dads from Nankana and this was long overdue)

 

[Chief123]

And the final thing id leave on here and after that I’m gonna refrain from commenting because as per usual while I’ve remained civil, name calling has already begun.
Do any of the people so vehemently defending the former government belong to a minority group in Pakistan? Hindus, Christians or even Muslim subsets (Shias, Ahmadis…) - if not, I’d suggest you go out and ask a few regarding how they’ve felt these past four years and how they view their safety.
The only minority that has come out better are Sikhs with the launch of the Kartarpur corridor (and that’s because their movement is confined to Nankana Saab - a place where they’ve been fairly ingrained since pre partition days - this was a good step - my dads from Nankana and this was long overdue)

You could have just put it all in one post.

Anyway, your views are still a minority. It’s a terrible day for Pakistan and 20 steps backwards again.

 

[Sky1981]

I would again look at the dates in the articles and distinguish between 2018-2020 (pre covid and post)

1/3 of a 75 year old countries debt added in 3 years?

have you factored in inflation?

75 years ago 1 bn is alot lot lot of money, not so much these days

 

[VidaRed]

Copying slogans of rahul gandhi ? It went tits up for him though.

 

[Sultan]

Yawn just call any dissenting voice a shill - unlike most people in the thread I was actually born and raised there. Despite having moved abroad for my masters degree and subsequent career, I actually spend almost 1/3 of my year in Pakistan. I was very pro imran in his 2013 run - his antics ever since lost my support / respect for him.

The alternatives to Imran Khan are Nawaz and Bhutto dynasties who have looted Pakistan into oblivion since partition. Surprised and shocked any Pakistani would want to see these exact people do more damage.

 

[gajender]

The alternatives to Imran Khan are Nawaz and Bhutto dynasties who have looted Pakistan into oblivion since partition. Surprised and shocked any Pakistani would want to see these exact people do more damage.

But you can't have Prime Minister without the majority either just because Imran Khan has been shouting from the rooftop how his dismissal is being engineered by Foreign players doesn't make it true and he has been acting like another petulant power hungry leader who wanted to remain in power by any mean necessary .
If the Pakistani population is in overwhelming favour of Imran Khan as his supporters are claiming then he should just bide his time and wait for the elections which aren't far away and come back with majority as it should be the case in any healthy democracy .

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The foreign conspiracy thing is definitely an interesting subject. I am struggling to both buy it and not buy it.

Imran might have been asked to not visit Moscow, but is he that important in the larger scheme of world order to this leading to his apparently manufactured dismissal? I doubt it.

On the other hand, it's absolutely unquestionable that visiting Moscow at that time was really stupid. Countries like India and Brazil have also taken a neutral stand but the optics have been spot on. Asking for peace and abstention from voting at the UN is optically neutral but going out and saying what an exciting time to visit Moscow is just laughable.

Coming to Imran the Prime Minister, it's understandable why the Pakistanis feel he is the best option due to others being corrupt in the past but that is the lowest of bars to pick your leader in a developing country in a economically weak state. From whatever I have seen and heard, Imran the administrator is nothing to write home about. If one had to base on that metric alone, I don't think he has or would have been a good PM.

Ideal thing for the courts to do would have been to call for an election as soon as possible. Nothing guarantees stability in uncertain times like a fresh mandate does. Not sure when the next elections are in Pakistan but they can't come sooner.

 

[2cents]

I’m gonna refrain from commenting because as per usual while I’ve remained civil, name calling has already begun

Please continue, your posts are as valued as anybody else in this thread.

 

[gajender]

The foreign conspiracy thing is definitely an interesting subject. I am struggling to both buy it and not buy it.

Imran might have been asked to not visit Moscow, but is he that important in the larger scheme of world order to this leading to his apparently manufactured dismissal? I doubt it.

On the other hand, it's absolutely unquestionable that visiting Moscow at that time was really stupid. Countries like India and Brazil have also taken a neutral stand but the optics have been spot on. Asking for peace and abstention from voting at the UN is optically neutral but going out and saying what an exciting time to visit Moscow is just laughable.

Coming to Imran the Prime Minister, it's understandable why the Pakistanis feel he is the best option due to others being corrupt in the past but that is the lowest of bars to pick your leader in a developing country in a economically weak state. From whatever I have seen and heard, Imran the administrator is nothing to write home about. If one had to base on that metric alone, I don't think he has or would have been a good PM.

Ideal thing for the courts to do would have been to call for an election as soon as possible. Nothing guarantees stability in uncertain times like a fresh mandate does. Not sure when the next elections are in Pakistan but they can't come sooner.

But why that would have been unconstitutional and playing right into narrative whipped up by Imran Khan for once it seems Pakistani courts have acted correctly , let others try to form the Government and prove their majority if they fail then elections should be called otherwise let the new government complete the remaining term of the parliament in power.

 

[Sky1981]

The foreign conspiracy thing is definitely an interesting subject. I am struggling to both buy it and not buy it.

Imran might have been asked to not visit Moscow, but is he that important in the larger scheme of world order to this leading to his apparently manufactured dismissal? I doubt it.

On the other hand, it's absolutely unquestionable that visiting Moscow at that time was really stupid. Countries like India and Brazil have also taken a neutral stand but the optics have been spot on. Asking for peace and abstention from voting at the UN is optically neutral but going out and saying what an exciting time to visit Moscow is just laughable.

Coming to Imran the Prime Minister, it's understandable why the Pakistanis feel he is the best option due to others being corrupt in the past but that is the lowest of bars to pick your leader in a developing country in a economically weak state. From whatever I have seen and heard, Imran the administrator is nothing to write home about. If one had to base on that metric alone, I don't think he has or would have been a good PM.

Ideal thing for the courts to do would have been to call for an election as soon as possible. Nothing guarantees stability in uncertain times like a fresh mandate does. Not sure when the next elections are in Pakistan but they can't come sooner.

There is nothing strange since Pakistan, I assume is bit like my country where president means squat, there are political parties and powers that controls the government, more than president.

I refuse to believe that Imran Khan holds that much power in Pakistan, if he did he won't be ousted this meekly.

And Imran is just a person, no matter how good he is it's hard to correct a nation riled with corruption, i know it firsthand, it takes generations of reform.

 

[Dumbstar]

Pakistan was at a default when he had taken charge. There was nothing at all in the treasury. Its been ransacked for the last 30 odd years. Don't you feel 30 years of looting will affect?

The lack of common intelligence and follow through is astounding. Sadly.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Yawn just call any dissenting voice a shill - unlike most people in the thread I was actually born and raised there. Despite having moved abroad for my masters degree and subsequent career, I actually spend almost 1/3 of my year in Pakistan. I was very pro imran in his 2013 run - his antics ever since lost my support / respect for him.

Talking down to people not living in Pakistan while only living 1/3 yourself. That's a weird flex.

I've lived 2/3rds, and only moved in late 2019 to Munich. And also I'm sure most of the people in this thread still have family in Pakistan who they would talk to so it's not as if they are living in vaccum, so there is no need to talk down to their opinion and claim yourself to be better than them.

 

[Sky1981]

Yawn just call any dissenting voice a shill - unlike most people in the thread I was actually born and raised there. Despite having moved abroad for my masters degree and subsequent career, I actually spend almost 1/3 of my year in Pakistan. I was very pro imran in his 2013 run - his antics ever since lost my support / respect for him.

Living in the country means nothing at the grand scheme of things.

Half of pakistan dont even share your view. Just like half of america have a very different view towards politics.

One person's antic is another masterpieces.

I lived in Indonesia most of my life but my view on my country politic would be very different to the half of the population, let alone whether our current president does a good or bad job.

 

[shamans]

But you can't have Prime Minister without the majority either just because Imran Khan has been shouting from the rooftop how his dismissal is being engineered by Foreign players doesn't make it true and he has been acting like another petulant power hungry leader who wanted to remain in power by any mean necessary .
If the Pakistani population is in overwhelming favour of Imran Khan as his supporters are claiming then he should just bide his time and wait for the elections which aren't far away and come back with majority as it should be the case in any healthy democracy .

Except it won't be a "healthy" democracy. From what I understand this joint coalition does not intend on governing for long. They're only goals are "electoral reforms" which means gaming the system so Imran Khan has no chance whatsoever.

They will be suspending the national accountability bureau, blocking EVM and overseas Pakistani vote and rigging day of elections as they mostly do.

Despite all that, an election should still give Imran Khan a majority (if not 2/3). Still, nothing about this is healthy democracy. You have a man who blames earthquakes in Pakistan on women wearing tight jeans allied with supposed liberal agenda political parties. I'm sure this isn't the people's mandate.

 

[Dumbstar]

Except it won't be a "healthy" democracy. From what I understand this joint coalition does not intend on governing for long. They're only goals are "electoral reforms" which means gaming the system so Imran Khan has no chance whatsoever.

They will be suspending the national accountability bureau, blocking EVM and overseas Pakistani vote and rigging day of elections as they mostly do.

Despite all that, an election should still give Imran Khan a majority (if not 2/3). Still, nothing about this is healthy democracy. You have a man who blames earthquakes in Pakistan on women wearing tight jeans allied with supposed liberal agenda political parties. I'm sure this isn't the people's mandate.

Exactly. Democracy in third world countries is as fragile, and as useful, as wet biscuits at a tea party. To have leadership that isn't corrupt, even if it's martial law, is more important to the starving populace.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Can we keep this less important stuff away for a second and confirm if Hina Rabbani Khar will be back as the External Affairs Or foreign minister making regular appearances in the spot light? She was what got me interested in Pakistan politics years ago.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Once the video of IK was released where he was criticising the US/UN regarding his vote, it was only a matter of time before he was ousted, im just glad he’s still alive.

Talking to family back home, they all fear the same with the Sharifs/Bhuttos coming back into power, money will taken out of the country and these corrupt fkrs will be living their lavish lifestyles while the average person struggles.

 

[Zlatattack]

Can we keep this less important stuff away for a second and confirm if Hina Rabbani Khar will be back as the External Affairs Or foreign minister making regular appearances in the spot light? She was what got me interested in Pakistan politics years ago.

No - you'll have to make do with Bilawal Bhutto. Khushbo laga ke.

 

[Dumbstar]

Once the video of IK was released where he was criticising the US/UN regarding his vote, it was only a matter of time before he was ousted, im just glad he’s still alive.

Talking to family back home, they all fear the same with the Sharifs/Bhuttos coming back into power, money will taken out of the country and these corrupt fkrs will be living their lavish lifestyles while the average person struggles.

They're already living one of the richest lifestyle you can imagine. They're back for more because they're insidious. The belly of the devil that never gets full.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

They're already living one of the richest lifestyle you can imagine. They're back for more because they're insidious. The belly of the devil that never gets full.

The cycle of greed never stops.

Just when I thought IK would actually affect change for the better, he gets ousted and will no doubt be replaced by the same families who have already emtied the country.

 

[fishfingers15]

Are the people rooting for Imran Khan Pakistani Sanghis? Educated Indians touting Modi for Good governance willing to overlook his communal identities, maybe aren't all that different from Imran Khan who has closely aligned himself with hardcore religious groups?

 

[Dumbstar]

Are the people rooting for Imran Khan Pakistani Sanghis? Educated Indians touting Modi for Good governance willing to overlook his communal identities, maybe aren't all that different from Imran Khan who has closely aligned himself with hardcore religious groups?

Eh?

 

[fishfingers15]

Eh?

Edited a little for your benefit.

Are the people rooting for Imran Khan Pakistani Sanghis? Educated Indians touting Modi for Good governance were willing to overlook his communal identities, maybe aren't all that different from Imran Khan supporting Pakistanis who has closely aligned himself with hardcore religious groups?

 

[Dumbstar]

Edited a little for your benefit.

Are the people rooting for Imran Khan Pakistani Sanghis? Educated Indians touting Modi for Good governance were willing to overlook his communal identities, maybe aren't all that different from Imran Khan supporting Pakistanis who has closely aligned himself with hardcore religious groups?

IK is siding with anti corruption, that's his only MO. Modi is 100% for killing Muslims, that's his MO. Not sure this had to be pointed out but I entertained it.

 

[Zlatattack]

Edited a little for your benefit.

Are the people rooting for Imran Khan Pakistani Sanghis? Educated Indians touting Modi for Good governance were willing to overlook his communal identities, maybe aren't all that different from Imran Khan supporting Pakistanis who has closely aligned himself with hardcore religious groups?

Imran Khan hasn't aligned himself with any religious groups.

People forget under his govt he locked up the TLP leadership and declared them terrorists. Its only after they agreed to certain terms that they were let off the list.

He cracked down hard on them both times they led violent protests.

He also supported the military launch attacks against Baloch terrorists and TTP.

Under his govt hafiz Saeed has been sentenced to 31 years in prison.

Yes he did talk them up a little in 2017 when they were busy protesting the previous govt. Your enemies enemy and that.

I think you should read Pakistani Twitter and judge for yourself the kind of people who support him.

All the religious parties joined hands with the crooks and voted to have him removed.

 

[Zlatattack]

Actions of new govt so far;

- PM to have three official residences
- Diplomatic passports issued for Nawaz Sharif and Asif Dar, who were both hiding in London. Sharif after escaping prison and Dar after absconding from a court hearing
- PPP mna who had escaped to Dubai after being charged with his part of a journalist in Sindh has had his name dropped from the case
- Director of FIA responsible for cases against the PM, his son, his new political allies - has been put on indefinite leave
- Prime Ministers money laundering case kicked down to later on the month, because he was being sworn into office and couldn't make his court appointment
- Several senior journalists fired from their jobs
- Several political activists of previous party detained without charge
- Posters asking for donations for Imran Khans cancer hospital torn down
- media blackout of anti govt protests
- military has held a conference to discuss anti army social media trends
- all govt employees to get 10% pay rise
- free laptop scheme launched again
- govt programme of Food vans to feed homeless rolled back - apparently we can afford it, even though its partly funded by charitable donations

 

[Dumbstar]

It's looking bleak already. They're really doubling down on the social media (journalists) aspects this time. America will get their bases that they've been after and fill the criminals' pockets doing so.

This will lead to an increase of terrorism activity in Pakistan, mainly from Afghanistan and the world will tut tut at what a mess the Pakistani people have made.

 

[Zlatattack]

Today they've shut down govt run homeless shelters and soup kitchens too.

How low can you go? Targeting the most vulnerable people in society.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

It's looking bleak already. They're really doubling down on the social media (journalists) aspects this time. America will get their bases that they've been after and fill the criminals' pockets doing so.

This will lead to an increase of terrorism activity in Pakistan, mainly from Afghanistan and the world will tut tut at what a mess the Pakistani people have made.

I've just seen the mass resignations. What happens next in terms of possible election? 123/125 resigned? Military came out against Khan, to rubbish his claim of conspiracy, but Khan has vowed to hold rallies until an election is called. Likelihood of that happening?

 

[lefty_jakobz]

I've just seen the mass resignations. What happens next in terms of possible election? 123/125 resigned? Military came out against Khan, to rubbish his claim of conspiracy, but Khan has vowed to hold rallies until an election is called. Likelihood of that happening?

More likely Khan getting killed than they letting him back into power.

 

[Fergies Gum]

Crazy scenes in the Punjab Assembly. Deputy speaker and Pervaiz Elahi attacked.

Think its just a matter of time now before the army declares martial law.

 

[Dumbstar]

Crazy scenes in the Punjab Assembly. Deputy speaker and Pervaiz Elahi attacked.

Think its just a matter of time now before the army declares martial law.

Really, who did the attacking? I thought they were all criminal buddies now? Martial Law before the Sharif's and Zardaris can syphon off billions to their already exposed Swiss accounts would be glorious. insha'Allah, please God in this holy month of Ramadan bring in the army. And then fresh elections. Ameen.

 

[Zlatattack]

Really, who did the attacking? I thought they were all criminal buddies now? Martial Law before the Sharif's and Zardaris can syphon off billions to their already exposed Swiss accounts would be glorious. insha'Allah, please God in this holy month of Ramadan bring in the army. And then fresh elections. Ameen.

Pmlq didn't side with the rest of them, they remained loyal to PTI.

 

[Zlatattack]

Huge protests all over Pakistan today. Imran Khan is marching on Islamabad to demand elections.

Govt has killed 5 protestors, reports of a child killed too tonight.

 

[The Corinthian]

They’re protesting outside the London embassy too.

 

[2cents]

 

[Foxbatt]

When has it never been?

 

[Dumbstar]

Don't bother reading the thread, I just saw this from him:

"The decision to lower prices (by Imran Khan) was purely political, to gain public support, and perhaps more importantly set a minefield for the incoming PMLN government"

He's a Trumper. A bullshit artist.