Overrated Players

OverratedOpinion said:
He was a dish wasn't he? ;)

I actually feel he is slightly underrated as a footballer these days because the first thing people think of when they think of him is the celebrity and not the player.

He was a beautiful passer of the ball, struck the ball incredibly cleanly, best crosser in my lifetime and had an absolutely top level work rate. Overall he is probably widely looked at as the 4th best player in the 4 man midfield he played in and he definitely wasn't at the time.
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Fair points mate !

I actually forgot to use one in my favor which is, due to him being more of a celebrity it boosted his popularity into people thinking he was better then he actually was.

Americans looked at Beckham like he’s freaking Pele when he came to the MLS.
 
lysglimt said:
Benzema was never crap - he had 1-2 seasons he was poor, he had 3-4 seasons he was just good - and 4-5 seasons where he was world-class - to call someone overrated when they score 20+ goals in the league 4 seasons running - well.....
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Crap is obviously an exaggeration but as you say he had a good few seasons missing some sitters. He's always been a top striker but after his recent good seasons some really are overrating him to elite levels as if he was always this good.
 
This could turn on me but watching Raul and then hamburg retiring his shirt I just felt it was a bit of an over rating. I just didn't see the superstar appeal there
 
Gio said:
In a 4-3-3 I reckon he'd have played through the middle as a false 9, although younger / quicker Raul could have played on either side as a wide forward. He was pretty hot as a 9 / 9.5 / 10 for Real and showed the sort of qualities that have become more prized in the modern game.
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Yeah, it's just tough to think of too many similar forwards since 2nd strikers are so out of fashion tactically. My guess is he would have already switched to being a #10 or wide attacker as a youngster, though maybe ended up a false 9 like Firmino in time.
 
Greetings, traveler! I am here to warn you that this thread contains the following mentions(and more!):

Drogba, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, Ruud, Carrick, Modric, Benzema, Keane, Aguero, Terry, Salah, Kante, Ribery, Park, Van Der Sar, Evra, Ramos, De Gea, Raul, Beckham
 
Thiago. Lovely strut. Beautiful weight on his two touches followed by a 10 yard pass too.

Pogba. The hype train ran out of control, he can’t run and isn’t a reliable performer or match-winner in any position.

Griezmann. A hard-worker seen as more due to great hair, his contract at Barcelona should result in someone getting jailed.
 
shamans said:
Crap is obviously an exaggeration but as you say he had a good few seasons missing some sitters. He's always been a top striker but after his recent good seasons some really are overrating him to elite levels as if he was always this good.
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A hill I’d die on is that Benzema was always this good and did what he needed to do for the team given the talent and egos around him.
 
fps said:
A hill I’d die on is that Benzema was always this good and did what he needed to do for the team given the talent and egos around him.
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I get it to an extent but not being clinical and missing chances hasn't to do with positional play does it.
 
BigDycheEnergy said:
Greetings, traveler! I am here to warn you that this thread contains the following mentions(and more!):

Drogba, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, Ruud, Carrick, Modric, Benzema, Keane, Aguero, Terry, Salah, Kante, Ribery, Park, Van Der Sar, Evra, Ramos, De Gea, Raul, Beckham
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Well, every footballer will have that one person who doesn't see it in them. I bet someone thinks Messi Best Ronaldo Pele are overrated
 
shamans said:
Well, every footballer will have that one person who doesn't see it in them. I bet someone thinks Messi Best Ronaldo Pele are overrated
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I guess it also depends on how you interpret the word "overrated". To me a player is only overrated if they are significantly worse than the general consensus. So if Messi is largely considered the GOAT but you only think he's the 2nd or 3rd best, then that doesn't really qualify as overrated.

Then again this would also depend on you knowing exactly what the general consensus is. Carrick has been mentioned several times in this thread, but I've honestly yet to see anyone in real life give him more than an honorable mention when discussing the greatest PL midfielders. And this is true for both pundits and United supporters. Isn't this a fair assessment? He's nowhere close to the top 5, but he was still a very good CM.
 
El__Jingo said:
Bale over rated :lol:

absolutely outstanding for his country, Led us to a Euro Semi final aswell as our first WC , won countless champions leagues.. and that season he had for spurs he was absolutely outstanding. other than ronaldo hes probably the best winger the prem has seen . Absolutely baffling for anyone who thinks hes over rated.
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Nah, he was never consistent for years, yet gets put in the category with much better players, as you are doing yourself by saying he’s the second best winger in PL history over Salah, Hazard and Giggs for example. Then I’ve seen some people say he was the best British player of all-time, again another massive overrating to say that.
 
I heard someone on the radio call Fofana 'world class' the other day. Now that's overrated.
 
mshnsh said:
Zidane won the ballon d'or simply for his 2 headed goals in the 1998 final. His only good game in the 2006 world cup was vs Brazil and the only reason why he was voted Pott at 2006 wc. His only great moment in the ucl was the goal vs Leverkusen. In short, his career has been about great moments without any consistency.

Iniesta was much more consistent through his career plus also had great moments like goals vs Netherlands in 2010 final, goal vs Chelsea in 2009 ucl semi final etc. Xavi was a central midfielder with Iniesta was an attacking mid, 2 different positions.
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Just not true though is it? His club team won Serie A in 1998 and reached the CL final that year also. He contributed 11 goals and 15 assists in 48 apps (10 G + A in 11 champions league apps) which is pretty solid in those days.

In 2006 he scored and assisted vs a better Spain team in round 2, assited vs Brazil in the quarters and scored the decisive penalties vs Portugal and Italy. Only a legend like Zidane or Cristiano could step up and be so reliable in these moments.
In the Semi finals and final he managed a goal vs Barcelona in the semis, then an assist in the semis vs Barcelona then another goal in the finals vs Leverkusen along with being the main playmaker for his team.

Think you are a bit harsh. Iniesta was ALWAYS the Robin where as Zidane is Batman. Zidane could make lesser players look better
 
BigDycheEnergy said:
Greetings, traveler! I am here to warn you that this thread contains the following mentions(and more!):

Drogba, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, Ruud, Carrick, Modric, Benzema, Keane, Aguero, Terry, Salah, Kante, Ribery, Park, Van Der Sar, Evra, Ramos, De Gea, Raul, Beckham
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Madness. None of these players were overrated. This reads more like a list of world class players from the 00's and 10's.
 
lysglimt said:
Benzema was never crap - he had 1-2 seasons he was poor, he had 3-4 seasons he was just good - and 4-5 seasons where he was world-class - to call someone overrated when they score 20+ goals in the league 4 seasons running - well.....
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Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
 
Olmer said:
Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
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I think you are missing the most important thing here...its not about the number of goals you score...its about the impact of those goals. Benzema scored clutch game wining goals for real madrid and france last season and last year. Ronaldo da lima did the same....so yes technically they didnt score 40+ goals but they scored the most important goals at the most important times for their teams. The goals per game stat is useless when assessing greatness.
 
Scholes by some of our fanbase (see my username? I don't call him a shit player, relax ;) )
Casillas, never been consistent enough for me
Sergio Ramos, his leadership and clutch goals mask some very dodgy defensive moments that occur all too often.

Someone I don't agree on is G. Neville. Surely he comes short when compared to modern fullbacks,
but he did everything you asked from a defender back then to a pretty decent level. He was a very good first choice for a top team at the time.
 
Olmer said:
Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
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Benzema played with Cristiano Ronaldo though, one of the most individual (selfish) forwards of all-time where everyone had to sacrifice their game for him. Benzema did that with aplomb without complaining as they won trophies… and then scored prolifically after he left. That gave me a lot more respect of his career and I imagine he would have scored a lot more goals in a different set-up in his ‘prime’ years. Also Benzema’s link up play is excellent, which goes beyond pure goalscoring.
 
Stacks said:
Just not true though is it? His club team won Serie A in 1998 and reached the CL final that year also. He contributed 11 goals and 15 assists in 48 apps (10 G + A in 11 champions league apps) which is pretty solid in those days.

In 2006 he scored and assisted vs a better Spain team in round 2, assited vs Brazil in the quarters and scored the decisive penalties vs Portugal and Italy. Only a legend like Zidane or Cristiano could step up and be so reliable in these moments.
In the Semi finals and final he managed a goal vs Barcelona in the semis, then an assist in the semis vs Barcelona then another goal in the finals vs Leverkusen along with being the main playmaker for his team.

Think you are a bit harsh. Iniesta was ALWAYS the Robin where as Zidane is Batman. Zidane could make lesser players look better
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In 1998, without the 2 headed goals, no ballond'or. Was not the best player in serie a.

In 2006, without the performance vs Brazil, poor world cup. Infact most were calling for him to be dropped. He wasn't good vs Portugal or Italy in the semi and the final.

A big game player but too inconsistent for my liking. If a prime Zidane had played along side a prime Messi, he would also be the Robin to Messi's batman. Although I think Zidane was a wonderful player to watch, very graceful.

If you talk Cristiano, I think he is an all time great but his allround play falls way short of others in consideration of the "goat" accolade. In that way he is also overrated particularly by some united and Madrid fans. This will be controversial on redcafe given the number of fanboys here.
 
Olmer said:
Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
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He's spent most of his career in Ronaldo's shadow. That's going to skew anyone's stats in an unfavorable way. Despite this, he has over 300 goals and a goal ratio of over 1 in 2 over a 13 year period at Madrid. That's still an incredible record.
 
BigDycheEnergy said:
I guess it also depends on how you interpret the word "overrated". To me a player is only overrated if they are significantly worse than the general consensus. So if Messi is largely considered the GOAT but you only think he's the 2nd or 3rd best, then that doesn't really qualify as overrated.

Then again this would also depend on you knowing exactly what the general consensus is. Carrick has been mentioned several times in this thread, but I've honestly yet to see anyone in real life give him more than an honorable mention when discussing the greatest PL midfielders. And this is true for both pundits and United supporters. Isn't this a fair assessment? He's nowhere close to the top 5, but he was still a very good CM.
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I don't think Carrick was that overrated but he has been praised by ex teammates quite a bit. They'll often talk about how he was the secret success in blocking passing lanes and what not.
 
Disagree with virtually every opinion here :lol: ...probably except the Pogba one. The talent was there but just too many downsides to his game and too many arguments about how he's not being played in his best position in the midfield to disguise his deficiencies. I grew up seeing the likes of Petit, Vieira, Keane, Davids, Redondo, Effenberg...Pogba isn't as good as they were.

Carrick is a bit of strange one. He had a good couple of seasons at first but Scholes was levels above him, especially in 2006-07. Carrick's peak was about 2012-2013 where he was absolutely integral to out premier league win that year and he had a very good period under LVG too. He's a United legend but was his peak long enough to be considered world class? I'm not sure.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Nah, he was never consistent for years, yet gets put in the category with much better players, as you are doing yourself by saying he’s the second best winger in PL history over Salah, Hazard and Giggs for example. Then I’ve seen some people say he was the best British player of all-time, again another massive overrating to say that.
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Salah is better but Bale was more consistent than Giggs and Hazard over his best 7-8 years, though only half of those in the Prem. I think longevity costs him if we're talking Prem terms only and he goes 3rd team behind Cristiano/Salah, Giggs/Beckham, probably along with Hazard, just ahead of Mane and Pires. Maybe David Silva in that 2nd group and Giggs or Beckham down to 3rd team depending on formation.
 
mshnsh said:
In 1998, without the 2 headed goals, no ballond'or. Was not the best player in serie a.

In 2006, without the performance vs Brazil, poor world cup. Infact most were calling for him to be dropped. He wasn't good vs Portugal or Italy in the semi and the final.

A big game player but too inconsistent for my liking. If a prime Zidane had played along side a prime Messi, he would also be the Robin to Messi's batman. Although I think Zidane was a wonderful player to watch, very graceful.

If you talk Cristiano, I think he is an all time great but his allround play falls way short of others in consideration of the "goat" accolade. In that way he is also overrated particularly by some united and Madrid fans. This will be controversial on redcafe given the number of fanboys here.
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1998 CL carries more weight than the league and he was excellent. Please stop.

How dare you speak this about Cristiano!
 
Olmer said:
Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
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Only that R9 scored his goals when top teams scored way less than they're doing now. Barca and Madrid scored twice as many goals at the time Messi and Cristiano were there than Ronaldo's teams in some of their seasons. That highlights why conparing goal records, especially across seasons, doesn't really make sense to me.
 
Mwooyo said:
I think you are missing the most important thing here...its not about the number of goals you score...its about the impact of those goals. Benzema scored clutch game wining goals for real madrid and france last season and last year. Ronaldo da lima did the same....so yes technically they didnt score 40+ goals but they scored the most important goals at the most important times for their teams. The goals per game stat is useless when assessing greatness.
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Actually I disagree. Judging players based on their important/iconic moments is just too volatile because they are just that - moments. If we replayed that moment 100 times, we don't know how many times those players would be able to replicate them.
If Lloris Karius/Marquinhos/Donnarumma doesn't pass Benzema the ball - the moment doesn't happen and that's it.
Also it's not like iconic moments are exclusive to all-time greatest players. Recently Kai Havertz, Kingsley Coman were players who scored in CL finals. Are they all-timers now?
If you watch compilation of best touches/goals from any given year, huge amount of them is made by completely random players from random leagues like J-League.
If I let random people play for 50 years in my home village they will probably produce one goal that will resemble the famous van Basten volley.

EDIT: Also, judging players on moments leads to bizarre situations, when suddenly Aguero is remembered mostly by a goal scored against a relegation fodder team playing with 10 men. Strange stuff.

On the contrary, a goalscoring record of a player spanning a whole decade is a much better proof of greatness. It's simply much more solid and much less volatile. Also, in order to win a league, a team needs to regularly beat bad and average teams from said league. Goals against such teams are not unimportant - they are key to lifting the trophy.
Most, if not all, teams in the world would kill to have a striker who's always available and who guarantees beating average and bad teams every time. So I don't buy the argument that only the select few goals from the biggest matches are important, while the rest are meh.

Let me just say that I will laugh my ass off if Lewandowski actually manages to beat those 27 goals in a single try, while playing in a team full of kids who never won anything, lead by a rookie coach who learns his job on the fly.
 
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BigDycheEnergy said:
Greetings, traveler! I am here to warn you that this thread contains the following mentions(and more!):

Drogba, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, Ruud, Carrick, Modric, Benzema, Keane, Aguero, Terry, Salah, Kante, Ribery, Park, Van Der Sar, Evra, Ramos, De Gea, Raul, Beckham
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As long as there’s a good argument they can all be legitimate because some fans hype players up beyond reality these days. For example, I don’t agree with the OPs reasoning for Drogba but then if someone told me he was in the same bracket as Shearer or Henry I’d agree they’re overrating him.

99% of this forum agree with the bolded!
 
I just saw a Tiktok vid comparing players and then went to the comments after and it just hit me. Vidic is the most overrated player on social media. I see people calling him one of the best defenders of all time. Someone even called him top 5 all time. Now, of course its Tiktok, but still. I've heard the same sentiment from usually people who were too young to fully understand football at the time he was playing for United.

People talk about him like he was prime Maldini + Stam. He was a good player obviously and world class for a little while, but nowhere near the greatest defenders of all time. Rio and Stam were both better and more complete btw.
 
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Van Der Sar.

I somehow ended up rewatching the 2009 final, and he's shocking for Eto's goal which completely changed the game. Then he was horrible in the 2011 final as well - we were completely outclassed in that, but christ to even have a punchers chance in a game like that you need a great goalkeeper.
 
Skills said:
Van Der Sar.

I somehow ended up rewatching the 2009 final, and he's shocking for Eto's goal which completely changed the game. Then he was horrible in the 2011 final as well - we were completely outclassed in that, but christ to even have a punchers chance in a game like that you need a great goalkeeper.
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Oof this one hurts. The Eto'o one is forgivable imo. Weird unexpected shot. He was bad in the 2011 final, though i agree. It was his last year. He was like what 42? I think 2 moments cannot make him overrated. Don't forget the penalty save in Moscow.

For the Dutch NT he was immense. We had a shit defence for years, but he was able to organise it, keep it together and was always rock solid. True captain. I would not call him overrated at all. All the keepers that came after him at the NT were mediocre at best compared to him. He's considered the best or 2nd best (between him and Van Breukelen) keeper we've ever had.
 
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Kanu said:
Oof this one hurts. The Eto'o one is forgivable imo, weird unexpected shot. He was bad in the 2011 final, though i agree. It was his last year. He was like what 42? I think 2 moments cannot make him overrated. Don't forget the penalty save in Rome.

For the Dutch NT he was immense. We had a shit defence, but he was able to organise it and was always rock solid. True captain. I would not call him overrated at all.
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I don't think it is forgivable simply because of the stage - and we were meant to be talking about one of the goalkeeping greats. That team needed him in that specific moment more than ever, and he couldn't rise up to it. He does have a lot of credit in the bank after Moscow though.

I thought, we should've started phasing him out after Moscow. I think Ferguson potentially had an intention to that after Rome with Foster, but he had a mare when he got his shot and the steady hands of VDS overstayed a bit longer than needed.
 
I'll go with Schmeichel. Great keeper and highly influential. When I look back at goals we conceded in the 90s,he made a lot of mistakes (not as many as De Gea) I actually think Van de Saar was a better keeper. He was unassuming but so calm and very rarely made any mistakes. I think Van der Saar was better but Schmeichel was more influential. Like a Scholes, Keane situation.
 
Olmer said:
Benzema spent 13 seasons in Madrid, and his best goal tally is 27. I'd say it's far cry from what an all-time great striker should score (and some people think he is based on what he did in CL this season). I would at least expect him to match Suarez's best season once in 13 tries but all that he's managed is 0.7 gpg ratio.
To be honest, I get the same feeling when someone says that R9 was the best striker ever, and then I see he scored like 13 goals in 31 games in UEFA competitions.
I respect both those players, but I'm convinced that best strikers on the planet can (and did!) do much better than this.
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Zehner said:
Only that R9 scored his goals when top teams scored way less than they're doing now. Barca and Madrid scored twice as many goals at the time Messi and Cristiano were there than Ronaldo's teams in some of their seasons. That highlights why conparing goal records, especially across seasons, doesn't really make sense to me.
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Ronaldo scored 35 in Uefa Competition
 
Skills said:
I don't think it is forgivable simply because of the stage - and we were meant to be talking about one of the goalkeeping greats. That team needed him in that specific moment more than ever, and he couldn't rise up to it. He does have a lot of credit in the bank after Moscow though.

I thought, we should've started phasing him out after Moscow. I think Ferguson potentially had an intention to that after Rome with Foster, but he had a mare when he got his shot and the steady hands of VDS overstayed a bit longer than needed.
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He could've saved the one from Eto'o yes, but it wasn't a legacy defining howler to me. 2011 different story, he really played a bad match there and was lucky that the team was outplayed anyway so he wasn't singled out.
 
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