Overrated Players

[Someone]

Rice is a good shout. A good player but nothing special. Wouldn't be talked about as a world class players outside England, and no top club would be stupid enough to throw a 100m on him outside the premier league.

Some terrible takes in this thread. Drogba, Tevez, Hazar and Roy Kean?! People really have short memories.

 

[kaiser1]

My memory of Belgium vs France in that 2018 semi final is KDB ghosting while Hazard was a one-many army in attack.

My memory of the world cup was Hazard not having a goal, an assist nor a shot on target vs Brazil and France Several takeons and runs which amounted to nothing

 

[Member 105568]

Yeah Hazard was silver ball at a World Cup. Maybe the best performance by a Belgian at a major tournament ever?

Didn’t remember the silver ball, but I remember him bossing it. There are very few players I can think of more talented than him at his best. Not overrated, but maybe a slight underachiever, given his ability (he’s still won plenty, though).

 

[Theonas]

He won literally everything there is to win at international level. He’s a European and World Champion. This is even worse than the OP.

Yes he won but he started a grand total of ONE game in 7 KO rounds in the WC and Euros. That was in the years he was supposed to be one of the greatest PL midfielders of all times. He was behind the likes of Karembeu, Deschamps and Djorkaeff who played a much bigger part in France's success. Add to it his failure to impose himself and stand out over elite CL midfielders. Yes he dominated in a physical PL and still was a part of a successful international team but to me that makes him a great PL midfielder and a successful international career but that does not put him in the conversation of the greatest midfielders of his era.

 

[Lassitude42]

De Ligt

 

[Theonas]

Tevez.

He was good, very good even, but nothing special. He wasn't on the same level as Rooney when he was with us. I think his status was lifted due to the manner in which he left, and moving to City the same summer Ronaldo left, and the fact we replaced him with Owen on a free, and Berbatov never quite fit. The narrative became "United lose Ronaldo and Tevez", but bracketing them together was nonsense. There were many forwards who could have replaced Tevez, he was probably in the top 20-25 or so forwards in the world at the time I'd say as a rough guess, whereas Ronaldo was 1st or 2nd and Rooney top 5-10.

You're completely right! Tevez was a terrier and we loved him. His work ethic and his style fit with the PL perfectly and his combination with Ronaldo and Rooney was probably our dynamic attack under Fergie. But when you look deeper into his individual input, he was good, maybe even great but he was never at the level of the very elite.

 

[Daslogisch]

Ruud van Nistelrooy. Great finisher, poor overall player. Both United and Madrid were better before and after he was there.

But he's still no winner of this award. This trophy can clearly only go to one player. Obviously Paul Pogba. Incredibly overhyped since he was a United youth player. Always portrayed as the next best player of the world. During his whole carreer all the hype and stardom around him. In reality Paul Pogba is a slightly above average player, who occassionally plays a very good match but his regular performances are not exceeding the mediocre level. I have never seen so much overhyping in my life.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This is on the verge of becoming an unpopular opinions thread.

Anyway, my pick is Michael Carrick.
No white text, I'm serious

This is a United forum though, I don’t think Carrick is rated by the general public as highly as on here.

Viera is such a bad shout, even as a United fan I appreciated how good he was.

 

[Member 105568]

Gascoigne. He was class, but in England you’ll get some making out that he was pretty much the best player in the world in the very early 90s. Possibly in terms of potential/talent but not in reality, which is probably why he went to Lazio (and didn’t do that much).

Very good player, though.

 

[Robbo*]

Kane - almost always been poor against United when I’ve seen him.

Arnold, as widely discussed on here.

 

[P-Ro]

Marquinhos is rated as one of the best by many on here. He's been central to way too many embarrassing collapses in his time at PSG and these games are practically all the club care about as the league games are a bit of a joke. If you are shite in your big games and you are a PSG player then you can't be considered great.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Vieira is overrated in comparison to Keane, lots of PL all-time teams put Vieira in their team and Keane nowhere to be seen, even though I feel Keane came out on top in the duels between them, won more and was better in Europe. Can't remember seeing Vieira play like Keane did against Juventus in 1999 or Leverkusen in 2002 in CL semi-finals.

Vieira was a fantastic footballer too though and I would probably put him and Keane together in a midfield two for a PL all-time team, they'd have everything the two of them - as long as they didn't get sent off!

 

[Invictus]

• Zlatan Ibrahimović, depending on who you're speaking to. Exceptionally talented, had a good career — but some consider him to be one of the best of all time, when he's just not. For the last 30 years alone, you would have to rank center forwards like Ronaldo Luís, Luis Suárez, Robert Lewandowski, Andriy Shevchenko, Thierry Henry, Gabriel Batistuta, Karim Benzema, David Villa, Samuel Eto'o, Alan Shearer and co. ahead of him. Though on the other hand, he's also harshly underrated by some. Can't please everyone, I guess?
• Trent Alexander-Arnold for the contemporary game; again, depending on who you're speaking to. The Premier League has never had a truly outstanding, world-beater right back (like Marcos Cafú and Javier Zanetti, or even Dani Alves and Philipp Lahm), so he has been hurriedly catapulted to a level that's evaded him. Very good playmaker on the right flank — there's no contesting that, but has glaring shortcoming in an all-round sense. Robertson has unquestionably been the better fullback for Liverpool (53 assists since 2017, superb work rate and a gritter defender).

 

[FrantikChicken]

Ruud van Nistelrooy. Great finisher, poor overall player. Both United and Madrid were better before and after he was there.

But he's still no winner of this award. This trophy can clearly only go to one player. Obviously Paul Pogba. Incredibly overhyped since he was a United youth player. Always portrayed as the next best player of the world. During his whole carreer all the hype and stardom around him. In reality Paul Pogba is a slightly above average player, who occassionally plays a very good match but his regular performances are not exceeding the mediocre level. I have never seen so much overhyping in my life.

Yeap, that’s gotta be the one.

 

[UsualSuspect]

Didn’t remember the silver ball, but I remember him bossing it. There are very few players I can think of more talented than him at his best. Not overrated, but maybe a slight underachiever, given his ability (he’s still won plenty, though).

I'd go along with underachieving for sure. But he's also got the third most man of the match awards in Europe (just behind Messi and Ronaldo) over the last decade for a reason - and it still holds true despite the last 3 seasons. Immensely influential and consistently effective during his time in the PL, aside from one injury-plagued season.

 

[Member 105568]

Lukaku. Obviously not overrated here, but elsewhere (especially by journalists) he is. When he came back to Chelsea, lots were making out that he was genuinely world class, like top 3-5. They were making out that he actually has a great first touch, and that he can do everything.

As soon as it turned out that he was actually still shite, they were complaining that Chelsea weren’t playing to his very specific, limited strengths.

 

[Member 105568]

I'd go along with underachieving for sure. But he's also got the third most man of the match awards in Europe (just behind Messi and Ronaldo) over the last decade for a reason - and it still holds true despite the last 3 seasons. Immensely influential and consistently effective during his time in the PL, aside from one injury-plagued season.

Agree with all of that. It’s hard to describe his career because he’s both been brilliant, and (slightly) underachieved. When I say underachieved, I say it because he was good enough to win at least one Ballon D’Or and multiple Champions Leagues. Then again, he has won more than people like Roberto Baggio, even.

Class player.

 

[Thoms]

Bale, Pogba, Hazard

 

[FatTails]

Harry Kane: obviously a very good striker but still so overrated.

Declan Rice: Good solid midfielder. That’s all

 

[RacingClub]

I do think Rice is a good shout but I'm willing to admit that it could be because I'm missing something.

I think he excels in defensive minded teams and it may be exposed in a side that is more focused on attack (and therefore more open to counter attacks).

 

[MUnchies]

Talking about overrated , I believe Hojbjerg is very underrated.

 

[SinNombre]

I'll start

Didier Drogba- He scored a few cup final goals and people compare him to the best premier league strikers at all times. Not a chance. He never had the technique or goal scoring record to hang up there with Aguero, Henry & Shearer, even Rooney was better.

Go.

Yes - he is overrated because he kept bullying Arsenal and made both Arsenal players and fans cry.

 

[Edwards6]

Trent Alexander-Arnold. Don't know how people talk about him being one of the best RB's in the world when he can't defend. There's a reason so many teams target him he gets caught out of position all the time, definitely the weak link in the Liverpool team

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

• Trent Alexander-Arnold for the contemporary game; again, depending on who you're speaking to. The Premier League has never had a truly outstanding, world-beater right back (like Marcos Cafú and Javier Zanetti, or even Dani Alves and Philipp Lahm), so he has been hurriedly catapulted to a level that's evaded him. Very good playmaker on the right flank — there's no contesting that, but has glaring shortcoming in an all-round sense. Robertson has unquestionably been the better fullback for Liverpool (53 assists since 2017, superb work rate and a gritter defender).

You know he's only 23 right?

At 23 Dani Alves was at Sevilla, at 23 Cafu played for Sao Paulo. Already Alexander-Arnold has played a key role in a Champions League win and played in two more finals. Already he has 45 assists in the Premier League. Already he's been named in Fifa World Team of the Year, UEFA Team of the Year, 2x ESM, IFFHS Team of the Year, already CL team of the season, already 3x Premier League Team of the Season.

Most full-backs peak, particularly defensively, in their late 20s, early 30s. Kyle Walker was pretty crap defensively when he was 23 for example, now he's one of the best full-back defenders in the Premier League. You're talking like his career is over, that level hasn't evaded him, who knows where the next 10 years will lead. He's better than Robertson.

 

[Klopper76]

You know he's only 23 right?

At 23 Dani Alves was at Sevilla, at 23 Cafu played for Sao Paulo. Already Alexander-Arnold has played a key role in a Champions League win and played in two more finals. Already he has 45 assists in the Premier League. Already he's been named in Fifa World Team of the Year, UEFA Team of the Year, 2x ESM, IFFHS Team of the Year, already CL team of the season, already 3x Premier League Team of the Season.

Most full-backs peak, particularly defensively, in their late 20s, early 30s. Kyle Walker was pretty crap defensively when he was 23 for example, now he's one of the best full-back defenders in the Premier League. You're talking like his career is over, that level hasn't evaded him, who knows where the next 10 years will lead. He's better than Robertson.

Nice to see a bit of balance in the discussion surrounding Alexander-Arnold. He clearly has glaring weaknesses in his defensive game but time is on his side at least.

It might take a manager other than Klopp to help him develop that side of his game.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Rice - good player but not definitely not worldclass and currently massively over hyped/valued as 100m+ player

Modric - great midfielder but certainly not at Ballon D’or level, which is basically won based on few games in WC group stage.

TTA - good attacking full back but don’t think he is best right back in the world as he was being hyped as one.

Maguire - everyone know he is shite now, but in past few years he is often being massively overrated in England as one of best CB around

Antony - He clearly has talented but I think he is being massively overvalued by Ajax and over hyped by some of our fans, based on few tricks he did on the field with very little end products.

 

[V.O.]

Ruud van Nistelrooy. Great finisher, poor overall player. Both United and Madrid were better before and after he was there.

I loved Ruud to bits, but I think this is probably true.

I think Haaland could easily end up in the same bracket as well. Will hoover up millions of goals in that City team (like he does everywhere), but will he actually make them any better than they were? There are obviously plenty of other factors in play, but Dortmund were a better side when they had Paco Alcacer up top.

 

[wazz786]

Ruud van Nistelrooy. Great finisher, poor overall player. Both United and Madrid were better before and after he was there.

But he's still no winner of this award. This trophy can clearly only go to one player. Obviously Paul Pogba. Incredibly overhyped since he was a United youth player. Always portrayed as the next best player of the world. During his whole carreer all the hype and stardom around him. In reality Paul Pogba is a slightly above average player, who occassionally plays a very good match but his regular performances are not exceeding the mediocre level. I have never seen so much overhyping in my life.

Have agree about Paul Pogba, considered by many as world class yet he was highly frustrating to watch as a fan. He work rate and lazy attitude along with 1 good performance in every 5 games is a poor return.
I would have to say Paul Pogba because of his transfer fee figures in comparison to what he has delivered has to be most overhyped player.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Nice to see a bit of balance in the discussion surrounding Alexander-Arnold. He clearly has glaring weaknesses in his defensive game but time is on his side at least.

It might take a manager other than Klopp to help him develop that side of his game.

I still rate him, I think what he's done playmaker wise at Liverpool over a number of years deserves a lot of praise.

It's easy to forget he was fantastic in the Champions League semi-final for example, given how the final went, or how he created the second most chances in the Premier League last season for a team that was two games away from a quadruple and lost only 2 games of their last 35 in all competitions last season.

He isn't half as bad defensively as he's made out to be. He's just not in the greatest form at the minute. You have to look at the whole body of work.

It's not a fashionable opinion at the moment because he's just been bad against United just last night, Fulham recently and making a high profile mistake in the biggest game of the season last year against Real Madrid. His stock is lower at the moment. But he's played 230 games for Liverpool now, if he was that bad defensively he would have been exposed way more often.

 

[TenonTen]

People will probably have big issues with all 3 of these picks but here it goes:

Zlatan: The classic no pressure magician. Always disappeared in the knockout stages of the UCL. Also seems more of a big fish in a small pond type, relatively speaking. He leaves Inter to join a treble winning Barca. Inter win the treble that year knocking Barca out. He then leaves Barca. Right after that, they win the CL again. He stops playing for Swdden. They have their best World Cup run in years in 2018. There's no doubt that Zlatan has scored some amazing goals and is playing for a long, long time(although he has been very injury prone for nearly a decade now). Doesn't help that he went and spent many years of his Prime in France at a time when the league was in shambles. Good player but always fell short at the very elite level. Not nearly as good as he or his PR team believes. About his personality, he was probably a bit funny 15 years back. Now, he's just cringe, immature and a cartoon basically. A mental midget like Lukaku challenging him face to face in a game and comfortably outplaying him was embarrassing, as is his behavior for a 40 year old veteran.


Karim Benzema: We all rate him really highly and acknowledge what a complete striker he is and how much he's willing to do for his team. But when are his acolytes gonna stop pretending that he has always been this player? One of the biggest examples of pure revisionism is saying he has always been at this level. It's a joke really. He was always a good all round Footballer but his finishing was patchy and at times abysmal for a Real Madrid level striker. He ended a league campaign(17/18?) with 5 goals I think. That's embarrassing. There's no 2 ways about it. His fanboys seem to be lapping up the narrative that it was Ronaldo who was his problem. Well, Ronaldo has assisted Benzema more than the other way round. His national team career has been poor due to a lot of reasons. There was a time when he was considered a laughing stock by Football fans. No amounts of revisionism can erase those years. Having said that, he's been terrific lately. Credit where it's due.


Paul Scholes: He has become comically overrated since retiring. It's Giggs who has become a tad underrated(largely because of how vile he's as a person) while it's Scholes who has become severely overrated. Some quotes from famous players seems to be his biggest individual accomplishment. In his playing days, he was never known as a candidate for the best midfielder in the world nor was he indispensable for United throughout as some people pretend(he was very vital in some seasons no doubt). Gerrard and Lampard had way more impact at their respective clubs whilst also being in conversations for best midfielders in the world in their pomp consistently. Lampard and Gerrard had so many great individual match winning moments; Scholes simply falls short. No wonder these 2 were preferred over Scholes in the national team. Also below players like Pirlo. I really doubt he was ever a top 3 player in the United squad. There were always players way more important than Scholes at United. I can appreciate his longevity. Tremendous Technical Ability no doubt. Definitely a United legend. Scholes is a player people would appreciate as an artist of the game. Instead, he has become overrated to the point that it's annoying to non-United fans. I vividly remember Carragher and Keane having one of those agree-to-disagree videos, and in the Gerrard Scholes debate you can obviously tell that Keane rates Gerrard much higher and he basically admits that he has no arguments and is just siding with Scholes for "loyalty".

 

[P-Ro]

Paul Scholes:

Uh oh.

 

[Invictus]

You know he's only 23 right?

No, I did not; this is startling and brand new information. Cheers for cluing me in, mate!

At 23 Dani Alves was at Sevilla

Dani Alves was not just at Sevilla; he was dominating vast spaces almost single-handedly, and crucially, showing improvement on a year-to-year basis (from little Bahia (a much lower starting point vis-à-vis Alexander-Arnold) to his developmental years at Sevilla and evolving to reach a point where major clubs were interested in him). Whereas Alexander-Arnold seems to have stagnated as an all-round footballer (who exceled at certain things and continues to excel at those things, but hasn't come up leaps and bounds in other aspects).

at 23 Cafu played for Sao Paulo

São Paulo with Telê Santana at the helm (and players like Raí, Cerezo, Leonardo, Juninho, Ceni in the mix) was probably the last truly great club team from South America, so this should be “at 23, Cafú played for THE São Paulo”. Monopolized the continental club scene, and also won the Intercontinental Cup vs. Cruyff's Barcelona and Capello's Milan. And again, Cafú showed meaningful progress. Baby steps in the formative stages, then one of the best at his position — and by 1994 (at age 24), he was South American Footballer of the Year, a mainstay for World Cup winners Brazil and probably the best fullback in the world with Maldini; a high-octane force of nature with an unmatched work ethic.

Already he has 45 assists in the Premier League. Already he's been named in Fifa World Team of the Year, UEFA Team of the Year, 2x ESM, IFFHS Team of the Year, already CL team of the season, already 3x Premier League Team of the Season.

This does not signify much, and does not strengthen the argument in Alexander-Arnold's favor IMO. He boasts a long list of award-based accomplishments and statistical achievements, and has time on his side — everyone is aware of that and no one denied those basic facts. He just seems to lack the non-stop motor, urgency and rigorousness of truly great fullbacks (stuff that will be magnified and repeatedly exploited when when the dominance around him starts to fade and he's asked to shoulder greater responsibility, in and out of possession). On the basis of his accomplishments, he is a great fullback on paper. I just wonder if the fundamentals are there for him to be a genuinely and consistently great fullback in actuality (now or over the long haul); and whether he can keep improving on a year-to-year basis, when he hasn't evidenced comprehensive improvement in recent years. For what it's worth, I don't have a bone to pick with Alexander-Arnold, and he's clearly a very skilled and precise playmaker — if he shows greater appetite and improves to become a better fullback who is a factor in multiple phases of the game, I will gladly eat humble pie.

He's better than Robertson.

Fair. You're entitled to that opinion. If everyone agreed, the Café would be a boring place!

 

[TheNewEra]

Pogba, Griezmann, Coutinho, James Rodriguez (after the wc)

 

[bringbackbebe]

I'll start

Didier Drogba- He scored a few cup final goals and people compare him to the best premier league strikers at all times. Not a chance. He never had the technique or goal scoring record to hang up there with Aguero, Henry & Shearer, even Rooney was better.

Go.

Drogba is a Mourinho style player who fit very well into that particular system of play and did extremely well to deliver results expected of him. He may not be very effective in a different type of system, similar to Lukaku. I don't think he was overrated at all.

 

[Edwards6]

You know he's only 23 right?

At 23 Dani Alves was at Sevilla, at 23 Cafu played for Sao Paulo. Already Alexander-Arnold has played a key role in a Champions League win and played in two more finals. Already he has 45 assists in the Premier League. Already he's been named in Fifa World Team of the Year, UEFA Team of the Year, 2x ESM, IFFHS Team of the Year, already CL team of the season, already 3x Premier League Team of the Season.

Most full-backs peak, particularly defensively, in their late 20s, early 30s. Kyle Walker was pretty crap defensively when he was 23 for example, now he's one of the best full-back defenders in the Premier League. You're talking like his career is over, that level hasn't evaded him, who knows where the next 10 years will lead. He's better than Robertson.

Yes he's 23 so he's got time to develop and learn how to defend but until he actually does that he's overrated because people already call him the best RB in the world or the best in premier league history. Both statements are ridiculous

 

[BEST No7]

People will probably have big issues with all 3 of these picks but here


Paul Scholes: He has become comically overrated since retiring. It's Giggs who has become a tad underrated(largely because of how vile he's as a person) while it's Scholes who has become severely overrated. Some quotes from famous players seems to be his biggest individual accomplishment. In his playing days, he was never known as a candidate for the best midfielder in the world nor was he indispensable for United throughout as some people pretend(he was very vital in some seasons no doubt). Gerrard and Lampard had way more impact at their respective clubs whilst also being in conversations for best midfielders in the world in their pomp consistently. Lampard and Gerrard had so many great individual match winning moments; Scholes simply falls short. No wonder these 2 were preferred over Scholes in the national team. Also below players like Pirlo. I really doubt he was ever a top 3 player in the United squad. There were always players way more important than Scholes at United. I can appreciate his longevity. Tremendous Technical Ability no doubt. Definitely a United legend. Scholes is a player people would appreciate as an artist of the game. Instead, he has become overrated to the point that it's annoying to non-United fans. I vividly remember Carragher and Keane having one of those agree-to-disagree videos, and in the Gerrard Scholes debate you can obviously tell that Keane rates Gerrard much higher and he basically admits that he has no arguments and is just siding with Scholes for "loyalty".

Well here's another wee quote since we're on the subject. Brendan Rogers who managed Gerrard up close and personal, chose Scholes. You'll find it on YouTube MOTD. Not that I'm basing my opinion on that...but that a Liverpool man saying that. Without doubt one of the greatest players In our history. Overatted my arse. Have you ever seen Scholes play?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

"Scored a few cup final goals"

Man made him sound like Origi

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I've never been the biggest TAA fan but I'll admit he's brilliant creatively. But who do people consider the best RB's in the world if he's not even in the conversation? I struggle to find many good shouts besides James (who's mainly thrived in a WB system), Carvajal (not anymore), and Walker (who's basically an inverted sweeper, almost the anti Trent in what he's asked to do).

 

[TenonTen]

Well here's another wee quote since we're on the subject. Brendan Rogers who managed Gerrard up close and personal, chose Scholes. You'll find it on YouTube MOTD. Not that I'm basing my opinion on that...but that a Liverpool man saying that. Without doubt one of the greatest players In our history. Overatted my arse. Have you ever seen Scholes play?

Scholes was never even voted into the PFA team of the year by the players he was supposedly running games against. Retired young from international Football because he couldn't get games in his preferred position. Has zero votes in the Ballon d or throughout his career. Not one person voted for him. Never saw him singlehandedly winning as many games as other elite midfielders. Was not even in the top 3 most important/best United players in the squad.

But sure, let's pretend he's Zidane.

I stand by it. Since his retirement, he has become extremely overrated. He was actually underappreciated prior to that.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Many of these choices are terrible imo.

I'll go with Ruben Dias. Solid defender that is protected by the system Pep has built around suffocating the opposition in their own half and fouling them if they play out of it. But I don't think he's world class like many rate him. Honestly I think there are a fair few CB's that would look fantastic in that system if they are comfortable with the ball at their feet, because defensively it eliminates all decision making.