Out of control dogs/dog attacks

Pogue Mahone said:
What type of owner should own a large powerful dog? And why?

That’s what I don’t get. And nobody has come up with a good explanation. To me the sort of reasons that someone might want to own one of those dogs is the same reasons they shouldn’t be allowed to own them. Basically because they want to weaponise the animal.
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Regardless of the breed and whether it's a working dog or a pet. An ideal dog owner in my opinion should be someone that's responsible and is willing to put in the time and money to make sure their dog is well trained and socialised with people, dogs and animals.

The majority of muppets I see with these pit bull types and bully xls etc. To me anyway don't look like they fall into that category.
 
stevoc said:
Regardless of the breed and whether it's a working dog or a pet. An ideal dog owner in my opinion should be someone that's responsible and is willing to put in the time and money to make sure their dog is well trained and socialised with people, dogs and animals.

The majority of muppets I see with these pit bull types and bully xls etc. To me anyway don't look like they fall into that category.
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Sure. But you’ve evaded my question (which admittedly could have been worded better) Why does anyone need to own a dog like this? Why does anyone want to own a dog like that? Because I think the answer to those questions explains why nobody should be allowed to own a dog like that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Sure. But you’ve evaded my question (which admittedly could have been worded better) Why does anyone need to own a dog like this? Why does anyone want to own a dog like that? Because I think the answer to those questions explains why nobody should be allowed to own a dog like that.
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I don't want to evade your question mate but to be honest I don't think I know the answer.

Do 99% of people need to own any type of dog?

I would wager the answer is no beyond guide/service/working dogs.

So like everything else once a person for whatever reason decides to get a dog it's then down to personal choice, opportunity and circumstances.

Speaking personally I have a rottweiler, I don't need to have a rottweiler, he serves no purpose beyond entertaining my family. But then I don't need to own the Jack Russel I have either or any dog, I just choose to. And as long as I'm responsible and make sure they're well trained, behaved and socialised which they both are. I don't see any problem in that choice.
 
Vitro said:
Fierce, large, powerful dogs? Yep, ban them please.
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How would you suggest the criteria for choosing which breeds are chosen to be banned?

And how do you imagine the ban would be implemented?
 
stevoc said:
How would you suggest the criteria for choosing which breeds are chosen to be banned?

And how do you imagine the ban would be implemented?
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I know this wasn't directed at me but here's my answer.

1. The pitbull cross breeds that altogether account for the majority of fatal attacks in the UK. I'll leave it to the specialists to decide how best to define them in legislation.

2. I would personally like them all to be seized and culled. Unfortunately the Chief Vet has confirmed this will not happen.
 
P-Ro said:
I know this wasn't directed at me but here's my answer.

1. The pitbull cross breeds that altogether account for the majority of fatal attacks in the UK. I'll leave it to the specialists to decide how best to define them in legislation.

2. I would personally like them all to be seized and culled. Unfortunately the Chief Vet has confirmed this will not happen.
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Point one I'm not sure I'd disagree to be honest. Though pitbulls are already banned in the UK, not sure there are pitbull crosses still around are there?

On your second point I can see why that would never be the route they'd take, it would be an unecessarily callus approach. A much better solution all round would be for Vets to identify Pitbull crosses at regular checkups if they exist and notify the Police. Who then give the owners the option of having their dog steralised or seized, steralised and then possibly rehomed/returned. With those dogs having to be muzzled and on the lead at all times in public. After 6-12 years no more pitbulls/crosses.
 
redshaw said:
With this breed plenty of owners have been killed that have been taking care of the dogs. Usually dogs can attack someone vulnerable if off a leash, these dogs can turn on their owner on a leash while being fed and looked after, they overpower and don't like to be restrained. It seems like the dogs need very specialized upbringing and training that to is not practical. No amount of licenses and vetting would've stopped these owners being killed by their own XL Bully dog.
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I'm not saying I necessary disagree about the Bully XL specifically - saw the video of Ian Price being ripped to shreds and I can't say I'd be sad if they were banned - I'm just saying it's papering over cracks and there are already plenty of dogs that are dangerous because they're owned by fecking scumbags who shouldn't be let anywhere near a dog in the first place.
 
DannyCAFC said:
I'm not saying I necessary disagree about the Bully XL specifically - saw the video of Ian Price being ripped to shreds and I can't say I'd be sad if they were banned - I'm just saying it's papering over cracks and there are already plenty of dogs that are dangerous because they're owned by fecking scumbags who shouldn't be let anywhere near a dog in the first place.
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Scumbags with a vicious chihuahua are kind of a different prospect though. Your right that theres no meaningful enforcement over who gets to be a dog owner and thats the real problem.
 
Wumminator said:
I actually find dogs incredibly annoying and want them to be properly regulated. Too many owners in parks like me act like they’re a completely safe and loving animal - they all need to be on leads and owners should be made to look after them properly. The amount of dogs of any breed that come and jump around my baby does my head in.
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That is why off-leash areas are needed in some parks. Elsewhere on-leash should be enforced.
 
stevoc said:
Point one I'm not sure I'd disagree to be honest. Though pitbulls are already banned in the UK, not sure there are pitbull crosses still around are there?

On your second point I can see why that would never be the route they'd take, it would be an unecessarily callus approach. A much better solution all round would be for Vets to identify Pitbull crosses at regular checkups if they exist and notify the Police. Who then give the owners the option of having their dog steralised or seized, steralised and then possibly rehomed/returned. With those dogs having to be muzzled and on the lead at all times in public. After 6-12 years no more pitbulls/crosses.
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You touch on a key point in your second paragraph. Spaying and neutering dogs is a must if you are not going to breed them.

The issue is a lot of the types who get the problem breeds have delusions of making money by studding and littering their dogs but in my experience I've never seen any of those dreams come to fruition.

A spayed or neutered dog becomes a lot more social and a lot more predictable once the residual hormones are gone.
 
The Corinthian said:
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fecking SEETHING watching that. SEETHING.

Please tell me 3 things -

1. The boy is / will be ok.

2. The dog has been put down

3. The owner will do time.

On a side note, the little lad was incredibly tough in the time he was fighting on his own and did very well to keep it off his face / neck all that time.

Poor little lad, I hope he’s ok.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
You touch on a key point in your second paragraph. Spaying and neutering dogs is a must if you are not going to breed them.

The issue is a lot of the types who get the problem breeds have delusions of making money by studding and littering their dogs but in my experience I've never seen any of those dreams come to fruition.

A spayed or neutered dog becomes a lot more social and a lot more predictable once the residual hormones are gone.
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Yeah back yard breeding and most of them haven't got a clue of the expenses or hours involved with breeding dogs properly.
 
Just seen the footage of the guy that died. Brutal. People around him were useless but don't blame them really. Those dogs are monsters.
 
I've grown up with SBTs, between me and my family we've had 5 or 6 in total, including my most recent who was a rescue dog. He just died earlier this year and after sort of getting over it, I started to look into what his breed was exactly as I felt like I'd eventual get another. He was labelled as a staffy or staffy x by the RSPCA when we rescued him, but he had a slightly different look to him than our other staffs. After reading and looking at different staffy x breeds, I felt he was maybe crossed with one of these XL bullies.

When I looked online at puppies for sale, I noticed loads of the XL bully's and was wondering what they actually are? They seem to have sprung up from nowhere this breed.

Previously if you saw 'Staffy X' in an advert, it was potentially a pitbull, as this was the code sellers used to identify them.

Does anybody know the history of these XL bully's and what they're bred from? Is it some sort of new breed imported from America?

I don't know if mine was actually crossed with an XL bully but, before all these incidents, that is what I was going to get next time as I wanted another that looked like him. He was more staffy in his looks/genes, not such a big stocky build like an XLB, and he was genuinely soft as anything.

In fact I'd love to find somebody that could help identify his breed using photos, if anybody has any suggestions.

What I will say about this is that I hope they follow through in changing legislation around dangerous dogs. There needs to be more onerous punishment for owners who mishandle these dogs, put them off buying them. A few years ago all the talk was of SBTs and I've seen first hand how a proper home and training etc makes a difference. Like I said, we have had 6 of them and they never hurt anybody and were/ are good dogs.

If they do ban this breed, it'll just be on to the next. I've noticed more and more Cane Corso's being owned in the UK. That's probably the next one after these XL bully's that will end up in the media, rightly or wrongly. I don't know a lot about the breed.
 
pocco said:
I've grown up with SBTs, between me and my family we've had 5 or 6 in total, including my most recent who was a rescue dog. He just died earlier this year and after sort of getting over it, I started to look into what his breed was exactly as I felt like I'd eventual get another. He was labelled as a staffy or staffy x by the RSPCA when we rescued him, but he had a slightly different look to him than our other staffs. After reading and looking at different staffy x breeds, I felt he was maybe crossed with one of these XL bullies.

When I looked online at puppies for sale, I noticed loads of the XL bully's and was wondering what they actually are? They seem to have sprung up from nowhere this breed.

Previously if you saw 'Staffy X' in an advert, it was potentially a pitbull, as this was the code sellers used to identify them.

Does anybody know the history of these XL bully's and what they're bred from? Is it some sort of new breed imported from America?

I don't know if mine was actually crossed with an XL bully but, before all these incidents, that is what I was going to get next time as I wanted another that looked like him. He was more staffy in his looks/genes, not such a big stocky build like an XLB, and he was genuinely soft as anything.

In fact I'd love to find somebody that could help identify his breed using photos, if anybody has any suggestions.

What I will say about this is that I hope they follow through in changing legislation around dangerous dogs. There needs to be more onerous punishment for owners who mishandle these dogs, put them off buying them. A few years ago all the talk was of SBTs and I've seen first hand how a proper home and training etc makes a difference. Like I said, we have had 6 of them and they never hurt anybody and were/ are good dogs.

If they do ban this breed, it'll just be on to the next. I've noticed more and more Cane Corso's being owned in the UK. That's probably the next one after these XL bully's that will end up in the media, rightly or wrongly. I don't know a lot about the breed.
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To my understanding, it's not actually a defined breed, and the 'ban' will cover any sort of 'bully type' which is 'of the approximate correct size' - kind of similar to how the pitbull ban currently works. It's theoretically a few different types of pitbull mixed with american staffys. So if yours looks something like that and shares some genes, you're likely in trouble. If you want to identify the breed just do a genetics test.

The problem likely isn't the breed so much; more the result of lockdowns and terribly socialised dogs, along with poor/backyard breeding standards. A bully from a reputable breeder would likely be perfectly fine but the government are obviously reactionary given the number of fatalities lately and sheer number of problem bullys seized.

CC's will be fine; they are much less of a problem that CO's, RBTs, Boerboels and any other number of mastiffs. I'm not quite sure why/how the Fila got banned, but no other dog in that category is. The laws are outdated and rather nonsensical, but it is what it is.
 
Probably should be part of a bigger discussion about muscle dogs and the like. Some probably should be banned and others only allowed under strict regulation that demands training, certification and regulated keeping conditions.

Either that or only allow people to own setters. That would be my solution.
 
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Sara125 said:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mass-xl-bully-walk-planned-27752197

“Bring as many kids as possible.” Yup. Totally a great idea.
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7ohf7a.jpg
 
owlo said:
CC's will be fine; they are much less of a problem that CO's, RBTs, Boerboels and any other number of mastiffs. I'm not quite sure why/how the Fila got banned, but no other dog in that category is. The laws are outdated and rather nonsensical, but it is what it is.
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I had a Boerboel, he was lovely. We did pet therapy with seniors and he was a champ at it.

A lot of these dogs are a higher level of difficulty to keep and manage than others so it's easy for well meaning people to get into situations they can no longer handle and then the dog's behaviour gets worse. Even mine had a moment when I first got him where he challenged me. It was intimidating but I knew I couldn't back down.

The other side of the coin is people who actively want a dangerous dog to look tough.
 
A guy in my neighberhood has a couple. I dont know if they are big staffies, American bullies or XL bullies, but they are big nasty feckers that you can see he has trouble controlling.

If he were to somehow let one of them off its leash or it bolted out of his house, it could easily attack someone.

I dont know why people want them in their homes.
 
gaffs said:
A guy in my neighberhood has a couple. I dont know if they are big staffies, American bullies or XL bullies, but they are big nasty feckers that you can see he has trouble controlling.

If he were to somehow let one of them off its leash or it bolted out of his house, it could easily attack someone.

I dont know why people want them in their homes.
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Most people get a dog because they like the way it looks without understanding what challenges they may face in caring for it or how to give the dog what it needs to be a happy good boy or girl.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Most people get a dog because they like the way it looks without understanding what challenges they may face in caring for it or how to give the dog what it needs to be a happy good boy or girl.
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I got talking to a young bloke when walking my dogs near my home. He was saying he had got an American Staffy during covid and as it has got older it has got so protective, particularly when encountering other dogs, that he can only walk it very late at night. Sounds like he didn't socialise it well (or at all) and bought a breed he was too inexperienced even to consider. Great breeder huh?

Our breeder (of IRWS) does extensive background checks and refuses many people. Not usually because they suspect they wouldn't be nice to the dog, but because like many breeds IRWS need specific care and raising, and therefore they don't suit many people's lifestyle.
 
Wibble said:
I got talking to a young bloke when walking my dogs near my home. He was saying he had got an American Staffy during covid and as it has got older it has got so protective, particularly when encountering other dogs, that he can only walk it very late at night. Sounds like he didn't socialise it well (or at all) and bought a breed he was too inexperienced even to consider. Great breeder huh?

Our breeder (of IRWS) does extensive background checks and refuses many people. Not usually because they suspect they wouldn't be nice to the dog, but because like many breeds IRWS need specific care and raising, and therefore they don't suit many people's lifestyle.
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Indeed. As much as you love your setters, if you didn't give them the level of activity they need your house would be destroyed and walking them would be difficult.

Now imagine a breed that is meant for more aggressive pursuits that doesn't get the right care and you have the fella you described.
 
gaffs said:
A guy in my neighberhood has a couple. I dont know if they are big staffies, American bullies or XL bullies, but they are big nasty feckers that you can see he has trouble controlling.

If he were to somehow let one of them off its leash or it bolted out of his house, it could easily attack someone.

I dont know why people want them in their homes.
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How many enemies do they have that they need a dog to protect them? My dogs think I'm there to protect them as they hide behind me when danger is encountered e.g. men in hats and sunglasses, anyone with face paint on, small wiggly puppies or Miniature French Bulldogs (which they hate with a passion as they have no social skill).
 
Frenchies are hilarious. So much attitude. I've seen one boss half a dozen larger dogs.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Indeed. As much as you love your setters, if you didn't give them the level of activity they need your house would be destroyed
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Indeed. "I played with it and it broke" and "This is why we can't have nice things" would be a frequent conversation. Even 2 hrs walking a day isn't really enough as we don't have a garden (only a small courtyard) and can't do as much off leash as we could when we had just the 1, because the new one still has recall issues due to overexcitement. She didn't get a walk until we got her at 15 months and now loves them so much she doesn't want them to end, so we can end up with her just hanging around us, just out of reach :rolleyes:

We move in a couple of weeks to where we have a decent garden, a big park next to the house and lots of access to beaches. So that should get better/easier.

Now imagine a breed that is meant for more aggressive pursuits that doesn't get the right care and you have the fella you described.
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Agreed.
 
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Wibble said:
Indeed. "I played with it and it broke" and "This is why we can't have nice things" would be a frequent conversation. Even 2 hrs walking a day isn't really enough as we don't have a garden (only a small courtyard) and can't do as much off leash as we could when we had just the 1, because the new one still has recall issues due to overexcitement. She didn't get a walk until we got her at 15 months and now loves them so much she doesn't want them to end, so we can end up with her just hanging around us, just out of reach :rolleyes:
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:lol:

Wibble said:
"This is why we can't have nice things"
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Story of my life the last 20 years.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Frenchies are hilarious. So much attitude. I've seen one boss half a dozen larger dogs.
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My dogs hate them due to being "attacked" by three on a beach and the breeds total lack of ability to get doggy social cues. I'm sure they were just playing but they were nipping at Cadhla's neck and hind quarters from below, and all 35kgs of her ended up on my shoulders trying to evade them. They kept jumping to get to her scratching, the feck out of my legs and they still didn't notice that she was growling and air snapping at them when they jumped. Not a fan.
 
owlo said:
To my understanding, it's not actually a defined breed, and the 'ban' will cover any sort of 'bully type' which is 'of the approximate correct size' - kind of similar to how the pitbull ban currently works. It's theoretically a few different types of pitbull mixed with american staffys. So if yours looks something like that and shares some genes, you're likely in trouble. If you want to identify the breed just do a genetics test.

The problem likely isn't the breed so much; more the result of lockdowns and terribly socialised dogs, along with poor/backyard breeding standards. A bully from a reputable breeder would likely be perfectly fine but the government are obviously reactionary given the number of fatalities lately and sheer number of problem bullys seized.

CC's will be fine; they are much less of a problem that CO's, RBTs, Boerboels and any other number of mastiffs. I'm not quite sure why/how the Fila got banned, but no other dog in that category is. The laws are outdated and rather nonsensical, but it is what it is.
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Yeah my guess would be that there is a large amount of pitbull in their genes. Mine was more staffy than XL in his genetics, so wasn't the same size or anything, it was mainly in his face that you could recognise he wasn't full staffy. It was only when searching photos of staffy x breeds when I saw a staffy x xl that was a spitting image of him, so that's why I thought that could be his breed. He died earlier this year though.

What's a CO and RBT? And why don't you think CCs will be an issue? Are they a less aggressive breed? Sorry I don't know a lot about the breed hence all the Qs. My only concern is they fall into the wrong hands and are trained to be aggressive, which would obviously be a big problem and would see them all banned due to a few bad owners.

The Fila ban always intrigued me. I can't imagine there was ever an influx in the UK that caused the ban. Like you said the UK government is usually reactive, so interesting they banned that breed. I saw comments from the MP involved in writing the dangerous dog legislation and they said they got it wrong and it needs redoing.
 
All large dogs should wear a fecking muzzles while out in public places, if found without one they and the owner should be terminated.
 
M16Red said:
All large dogs should wear a fecking muzzles while out in public places, if found without one they and the owner should be terminated.
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Define large? Like a Labrador and above?
 
Wibble said:
How many enemies do they have that they need a dog to protect them? My dogs think I'm there to protect them as they hide behind me when danger is encountered e.g. men in hats and sunglasses, anyone with face paint on, small wiggly puppies or Miniature French Bulldogs (which they hate with a passion as they have no social skill).
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Oh i thought that was just mine. She's afraid of everything. Beards are another one





Red Setter we had when i was a kid, photo is 40+ years old, a couple of years before i was born
 
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redshaw said:
With this breed plenty of owners have been killed that have been taking care of the dogs. Usually dogs can attack someone vulnerable if off a leash, these dogs can turn on their owner on a leash while being fed and looked after, they overpower and don't like to be restrained. It seems like the dogs need very specialized upbringing and training that is not practical. No amount of licenses and vetting would've stopped these owners being killed by their own XL Bully dog.
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A lazy pull on Rottweiler + attack.

Bognor Regis dog attack victim still seriously injured in hospital after police shot dead 'Rottweilers'

Horrific new details emerge after beloved Rottweiler turns on owner in Success, Perth

https://www.itv.com/news/central/20...se-rottweilers-kill-pet-cats-in-front-of-them

It's not "this" breed and demonising it, or any one breed is a nonsense.

If there were as many Rottweilers in the hands of incompetents as this breed, do you think the number of attacks would be less? You can play hopscotch jumping from breed to breed; as long as that breed has the capacity to do serious damage, nothing whatsoever will change. These threads always turn out the same and become echo chambers demonising terriers in particular. Any commentary on how nice and/or civil how many countless amounts of them are, ignored so that the rhetoric can amp up.

Once any animal, with the power to kill or seriously maim decides to do so, you're in serious trouble unless you have the power and capacity to quell the attack, which most people do not. If you think the outcome of a vast amount of breeds I could name that set upon you would be any different, your bias is evident. People don't seem to want to acknowledge that beyond a certain size and power, that dog can kill and it's on their whim that they don't.
 
Fortitude said:
A lazy pull on Rottweiler + attack.

Bognor Regis dog attack victim still seriously injured in hospital after police shot dead 'Rottweilers'

Horrific new details emerge after beloved Rottweiler turns on owner in Success, Perth

https://www.itv.com/news/central/20...se-rottweilers-kill-pet-cats-in-front-of-them

It's not "this" breed and demonising it, or any one breed is a nonsense.

If there were as many Rottweilers in the hands of incompetents as this breed, do you think the number of attacks would be less? You can play hopscotch jumping from breed to breed; as long as that breed has the capacity to do serious damage, nothing whatsoever will change. These threads always turn out the same and become echo chambers demonising terriers in particular. Any commentary on how nice and/or civil how many countless amounts of them are, ignored so that the rhetoric can amp up.

Once any animal, with the power to kill or seriously maim decides to do so, you're in serious trouble unless you have the power and capacity to quell the attack, which most people do not. If you think the outcome of a vast amount of breeds I could name that set upon you would be any different, your bias is evident. People don't seem to want to acknowledge that beyond a certain size and power, that dog can kill and it's on their whim that they don't.
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Do you have any stats?

How many other breeds have killed their owners percentage wise in the last two years? I read a long list of owners some professional that have been killed this breed in recent years but I don't have any wide ranging stats across all breeds and owner profiles or bias or vested interest. Perhaps you have a bias as you even say a lazy pull with these links. I never said some other breed can't turn or kill its owner, I'm sure I could search and find one or two which could have bad owners or rare attacks the dog has turned while being considered to have been looked after well. We'd have to go through case by case, look at how many and how they're generally cared for which the authorities have the data on. Also some aggressive breeds do have a chance for attacks to be quelled due to being smaller, XL bully in particular seems to be very aggressive and larger.

If this breed has significantly higher cases of turning on, overpowering and killing its owners while being looked after then I think that would need to be considered.
 
Wibble said:
How many enemies do they have that they need a dog to protect them? My dogs think I'm there to protect them as they hide behind me when danger is encountered e.g. men in hats and sunglasses, anyone with face paint on, small wiggly puppies or Miniature French Bulldogs (which they hate with a passion as they have no social skill).
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Probably a lot. Someone did a drive by on their house a few months ago. XL Bully wont help there!
 
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