I wouldn't say they're too precise about causality. Yappy dog lunges at elderly person, who gets a fright, stumbles and falls. One skull fracture later we have another fatal dog attack statistic.
Out of control dogs/dog attacks
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
I wouldn't say they're too precise about causality. Yappy dog lunges at elderly person, who gets a fright, stumbles and falls. One skull fracture later we have another fatal dog attack statistic.
My post may have been a bit US centric for this forum
I have never heard about this breed, but if it's very similar to the pitbull then I'd ban it too.
It's one of those self-fulfilling things.
Breed naturally more aggressive and susceptible to lashing out.
Only nutters would want to buy a dog like that.
Nutters don't know how to train dog or don't care or even want the dog to be intimidating
Dog becomes more reckless and more attacks occur.
Repeat.
Breed naturally more aggressive and susceptible to lashing out.
Only nutters would want to buy a dog like that.
Nutters don't know how to train dog or don't care or even want the dog to be intimidating
Dog becomes more reckless and more attacks occur.
Repeat.
I have a staffy. He the best and kindest, most gentle dog I've ever met. I would still ban the breed because the front half of them is built like a tank.
Although that's horrendous, it's quite tame compared to a lot of the videos out there. I saw a vid of a pitbull attack where a whole guys face was ripped out and detached from his head (it was blurred out). I just can't be comfortable about being around those dogs after seeing something as gruesome as that.
Whether tame or not (I don't think it is), it shouldn't be happening full stop. Kids / toddlers shouldn't have to worry about a dog mauling them from playing outside.
My daughter is nearly a year old and loves the outdoors, but it's genuinely frightening that dogs are allowed to be off their leash and run up to people. They should be leashed or allowed to be unleashed in dog-only parks/areas.
I disagree with the leash point, especially for some of the bigger ones. If a 60kg turns the owner isn't going to reel them in..they're going to be flat on their arse and the dog will go from leashed to unleashed in a matter of seconds. I think these breeds should all just be banned, and by banned I mean killed.
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While we are at it can we look at some of these ‘breeders’ and how it seems to have been taken up as simply a side hobby with no proper research and/or training at hand? I’m far from an expert but I’ve watched tiktok vids here and there and read one or two articles, and it seems like actual experts agree that some breeds just shouldn’t even exist at all, whether for aggression or health reasons (see pugs for example) or otherwise.
I think a few laws and licenses need to be introduced where dogs are concerned, for owners and breeders.
This, sadly.
XLs should be banned and ALL dogs should require a license - filter out a few of the idiots and also make some money from it.
I say this as someone who’s owned and trained 2 German shepherds and 2 Dobermans (not all at the same time).
That's the fault of humans introducing cats to these habitats, not cats. They're just going to do what they do there.
Any person who believes they should be allowed to own a dangerous dog instead of a dachshund or something like that, should be able to explain to me why that would be ok, but why it’s not ok for me to own a gorilla and walk it on a leash. Or without a leash. It’s a well trained gorilla, after all. It wouldn’t hurt a fly.
Definitely agree but also think there are multiple steps that need to be implemented, one of which is the banning of dangerous breeds, breeders needing a proper breeding licence, the other being making it illegal to have a dog off a leash outside of designated areas with at least a heavy fine being imposed.
They've featured in the majority of more recent serious and/or fatal dog attacks in the UK. They aren't a recognised breed with the Kennel Club and the authorities have to first work out the genetic make-up of these dogs. Obviously it's Pitbull with something big to give them the musculature - my own guess would be a mastiff like the Dogue de Bordeaux (large pic below), which is also known as the French Mastiff. They are huge dogs with the typical mastiff head, like these XL Bullies.
That's just a worthless anecdote. I've petted a purring cheetah in South Africa, but I still don't think regular people should be allowed to own one.
That’s just a worthless false equivalence.
Right I’m getting a lion and taking it for a walk
Yeah cheetahs kill far fewer people.
I think its irresponsible owners that create these problems. They ignore most of the existing rules so i dont see how creating more is going to help matters.
Some breeds should be bred out of existence basically. Maybe theres some specialised use that someone qualified could get a licence for but basically they should be neutered. Existing dogs should wear a muzzle in public. Really any dog thats capable of completely fecking up a grown man should have a muzzle in public settings. All dogs should be on a lead in public places always. Have specific areas where your allowed have them off lead but in general they should be on a lead. Theres some dogs that are geniunely fine off lead and well trained but they're a tiny, tiny fraction of the people who claim their dog is fine off lead and they just aren't. It needs to be de normalised and be seen as the exception that it is. Most dogs aren't fine off lead, they're fine in ideal circumstances but circumstances can change fast. I've seen people who've been training dogs for 20+ years and have 5 dogs keep half of them on a lead at all times. Its not just training, its temperament.
On the other end i've seen first time dog owners have it off lead the same week they get it. They're often friendly and good natured but even in the best circumstances there's no real control, they have to call it 5 times just to get its attention.
For every off lead dog i see thats well behaved i see 5 that are an accident waiting to happen. The attitude to it is just in the completely wrong place.
Some breeds should be bred out of existence basically. Maybe theres some specialised use that someone qualified could get a licence for but basically they should be neutered. Existing dogs should wear a muzzle in public. Really any dog thats capable of completely fecking up a grown man should have a muzzle in public settings. All dogs should be on a lead in public places always. Have specific areas where your allowed have them off lead but in general they should be on a lead. Theres some dogs that are geniunely fine off lead and well trained but they're a tiny, tiny fraction of the people who claim their dog is fine off lead and they just aren't. It needs to be de normalised and be seen as the exception that it is. Most dogs aren't fine off lead, they're fine in ideal circumstances but circumstances can change fast. I've seen people who've been training dogs for 20+ years and have 5 dogs keep half of them on a lead at all times. Its not just training, its temperament.
On the other end i've seen first time dog owners have it off lead the same week they get it. They're often friendly and good natured but even in the best circumstances there's no real control, they have to call it 5 times just to get its attention.
For every off lead dog i see thats well behaved i see 5 that are an accident waiting to happen. The attitude to it is just in the completely wrong place.
They wouldn't even crack the top ten in terms of bite force amongst dog breeds. They're around about the same as Labradors.
How would you suggest your proposed bans are enacted?
I really wished I hadn't watched that. If I had been the mum, I would have been coming back out of the house with a knife rather than the pan or whatever she had. Awful.
Assume it was the owner who walked into frame at the last few seconds
Hardly surprising those trendy type of fierce dog breeds tend to attract the very type of owners who shouldn't own large powerful dogs.
What type of owner should own a large powerful dog? And why?
That’s what I don’t get. And nobody has come up with a good explanation. To me the sort of reasons that someone might want to own one of those dogs is the same reasons they shouldn’t be allowed to own them. Basically because they want to weaponise the animal.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/sep/15/american-xl-bully-dog-will-be-banned-says-sunak
Looks like the legislation to ban American XL Bullies will be in place by the end of the year. I'm in agreement that there's no reason for this breed to exist as a pet but to be honest the idea that dogs that haven't actually done anything wrong could be killed is sickening to me.
Looks like the legislation to ban American XL Bullies will be in place by the end of the year. I'm in agreement that there's no reason for this breed to exist as a pet but to be honest the idea that dogs that haven't actually done anything wrong could be killed is sickening to me.
This is the worst part. Most of these dogs will be perfectly good pets that are in the hands of good owners who love them and have trained them correctly. Yet because of a small section of fecking idiots who treat them like shit and train them to be overly aggressive as some sort of status symbol to make them look hard everyone else has to suffer and have their beloved innocent pets taken away from them to be destroyed, it’s fecking bullshit. Also the term “destroyed” has always bothered me as it makes it seem like you’re dealing with some inanimate object rather than a living breathing animal.
Can’t see anything in that Guardian article about mass euthanasia of the dogs?
This bit is from the article
Seems fair enough?
Breeding these dogs is a front for drug dealers half the time.
Seems to be profitable enough in its own right. Apparently each XL Bully is worth thousands.
Fierce, large, powerful dogs? Yep, ban them please.
well that’s a lot more palatable, I’d seen an earlier article where they suggested that once they became illegal they wouldn’t be able to be rehomed and ultimately would all have to be put down.
We have an American Stafford. He is the most gentle and quietest dog I've ever met. My girlfriend had him since a puppy before I knew her but trained him very well.
It's amazing how many random people in the street want to pet him as I can understand people being intimidated by his frame but he is friendly to everyone.
We were walking with him today and a dog a third of his size started to bark and he got scared and took a wide berth. There are definitely bad owners but with the right upbringing they can be the best dogs.
Which I'd be all for. If you are going to pass legislation because a breed is too dangerous for members of the public to own then there shouldn't be any leeway. There are many instances of dogs that have no history of attacking people who then go on to do so in an isolated incident. Fortunately in most of these cases the dog isn't a 60kg pitbull. Let's not forget that the guy who was mauled to death yesterday by 2 XL bullies wasn't attacked by dogs off their leash in public; the dogs jumped out of a window to attack the man and his 80 year old mum. Had this dog got the exemption then it would have happened anyway given the dogs weren't in public before they attacked so weren't leashed and muzzled.
Sorry, I'd been reading several different articles and the only hard mention of mass euthanasia came from Kenneth Baker, the Home Secretary who introduced the original Dangerous Dogs Act, who has long since left government:
Even the bit you quoted contains so many potential pitfalls for the dogs though. Firstly, how readily will these certificates of exemption be granted by the authorities? Secondly, they're then completely at the mercy of their owners actually abiding by the muzzling requirements etc. Not to mention the many scumbag owners who wouldn't even dream of applying for the certificate in the first place who will have animals seized and probably killed. It might well be for the greater good, but I do find it heartbreaking that innocent animals will end up being killed over this. As usual though, I'm not exactly teeming with workable alternative ideas.
Yep, I'd originally written 'destroyed' rather than killed, but I dislike the term in that context for the reasons you stated.
Animal welfare is a weird one. You kind of have to put your emotions to one side and think about the bigger picture. Massive deer culls can have transformationally positive effects on wild land, where they cause devastating damage in the absence of natural predators. Basically once humans start fecking with nature we often end up in situations where the only way to reverse bad shit we’ve created is killing a lot of animals. Which seems grim if you love animals but it is what it is. This breed is a man made aberration that has been proven to be horribly dangerous. So we have to do our best to at least try to put the genie back in the bottle.
At the end of the day they are “just” dogs. And I say this as someone who owns a dog and loves him more than life itself (well, more than my wife anyway)
Will be interesting to see how much this affects the rates of dog attacks. Whilst any XL bully has the potential to be dangerous I’d wager that it’s far more likely to be dangerous in the hands of certain people and those certain people won’t give a damn about these new rules.
There needs to be serious reforms on dog ownership and breeding. We’re on our 11th foster dog now and ten of them have been in foster care because of thick cnuts who shouldn’t have been allowed a dog. Or because someone took on that one extra dog to do a friend a favour who suddenly decided it was a good idea to breed their dog and now can’t get rid of the puppies.
Banning these dogs won’t do much I feel but it’s a step in the right direction. Licenses to breed any dog is the next step.
There needs to be serious reforms on dog ownership and breeding. We’re on our 11th foster dog now and ten of them have been in foster care because of thick cnuts who shouldn’t have been allowed a dog. Or because someone took on that one extra dog to do a friend a favour who suddenly decided it was a good idea to breed their dog and now can’t get rid of the puppies.
Banning these dogs won’t do much I feel but it’s a step in the right direction. Licenses to breed any dog is the next step.
The UK‘s relationship with dogs has always been weird though. Way more so than other countries. I’m a dog person, grew up with dogs, both parents & in laws have dogs, but even I can see the slightly infantilised way people here treat dogs like their kids (or expect other people to see them as such) is slightly barmy. If a bunch of purpose bread big cats were mauling people on the street we’d have culled them on day 1& probably sold tickets.
Change the fecking laws, banning breeds isn't going to do shit. Case in point this breed popping up from nowhere, they'll eventually be another one.
9/10 it's the cnut who owns the dog that's the problem. Every owner should need a license and be vetted in some manner.
9/10 it's the cnut who owns the dog that's the problem. Every owner should need a license and be vetted in some manner.
It is quite barmy. I still think about that thread posted on here a few years ago titled "How to cope with losing a child" and the thread was about his dog dying naturally of old age.