Our window isn’t the great success many claim

Godfather said:
I agree with that. I hope we still get Amrabat in and play him alongside Casemiro. This current set up with one CM just seems suicidal.
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Thing is as well, you can argue its one game for this particular team/manager/system, but it was also at home to a Wolves side who are in a right mess. If it needs to get that much better to not look like a catastrophe in one of the easiest fixtures of the season, how much better would it need to get to actually work in a majority of what will be much harder fixtures?

Its just really hard to envisage how that is going to happen. I can allow myself a bit of romanticism/hopeful thinking as a fan, but not that much.
 
Our outgoings are just as bad. 5 players — 3 youth kids; Alex Telles; and Fred who I really would’ve kept over McTominay anyway
 
MUFC OK said:
This is why I and others said we'd rather sign Caicedo and keep De Gea than sign both Onana and Mount. Think we would look better with DDG still in net and Caicedo next to Casemiro.
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I think De Gea needed to go. And I probably have been his biggest fan on this forum. But I also think you do not spend north of 50m for a keeper who walked for free 12 months ago, especially when you have big weaknesses in midfield and attack (two far more important positions). Maybe if that keeper is an Alisson or Neuer, but not for a very good, but not great keeper.

I think we could have got a truly wonderful player with the money from Mount and Hojlund (Kane, Osimehn, Lautaro). And then by selling players we do not need such as Maguire, McTominay and Henderson for reasonable prices (say 75m or so) sign a cheap midfielder (Amrabat) and a cheap CB backup.
 
groovyalbert said:
How the feck have we only been able to offload Telles to Saudi?

Shows a poor ability to sell, and evidence of the shite we've been buying in recent years.

Donny, Maguire, McT, Bailly, Henderson, Williams and Martial all need fecking off. We also need to bolster the squad with quality too.
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I reckon it's because Saudi's targets are those established and older flagship names, and we don't have too many of them other than Casemiro really. The lesser targets for them, such as the likes of Telles, would obviously be on higher wages there but perhaps not too dissimilar to some of the salaries we're dishing out. Genuinely think it may not be worth the move for them when they're already on comfortable retirement payments for us.
 
Revan said:
He will be an upgrade on De Gea (and a downgrade on peak De Gea), but he won't change how we play that much. The goalkeeper is the least involved player in the build up, be it Onana or De Gea. It won't compensate for us not having a midfield, for example.
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I agree with most of what you said in this thread but I think, you are wrong on this. The goalkeeper is a major factor in you ability to choose the height of the defensive line. De Gea was as uncomfortable away from his line as it gets. Wasn't only him but also Maguire and Lindelof who more or less forced us to play deep in defence. If you have to play a deeper line, trying to press becomes way harder because you can't compress the space as good. Issue over the last 2 or so years was, that some of our attackers still tried to do it, hence it looked disorganized and sloppy. A press badly executed will set you up for hammerings.
Last night against Wolves, Onana played very conservatively in terms of positioning. Might have been a call from ETH to help him bed in better to the league (we've seen him getting lobbed already once). So I guess, we are going to see him push up a bit more and more and with him, the defensive line. Which then will decrease the space in between attack and defense. Hopefully helping Casemiro because he won't be on his own in midfield, and hopefully helping some of our attacking players to make more use of their pressing abilities.

The theory isn't faulty, it could work, but it is a big ask. For the record - I wouldn't have went for Mount either, probably would have gone for Amrabat to upgrade on Eriksen and then add another good midfielder on top, that can cover for Casemiro and potentially replace him at some point down the line. Probably would have went for Caicedo even though paying 100 million for him wouldn't have felt right as well.

I consider the window to be a good window. We adressed a few major squad issues with good players. We overpayed something but not to the extent other teams have this year. We were also pretty efficient (even if that died down a bit last weeks) and able to act way sooner than usually. So definitely well done to the people involved, credit where credit is due, we certainly looked more like an actual club this year. But to call it a great success, more would have been needed.
 
NZT-One said:
I agree with most of what you said in this thread but I think, you are wrong on this. The goalkeeper is a major factor in you ability to choose the height of the defensive line. De Gea was as uncomfortable away from his line as it gets. Wasn't only him but also Maguire and Lindelof who more or less forced us to play deep in defence. If you have to play a deeper line, trying to press becomes way harder because you can't compress the space as good. Issue over the last 2 or so years was, that some of our attackers still tried to do it, hence it looked disorganized and sloppy. A press badly executed will set you up for hammerings.
Last night against Wolves, Onana played very conservatively in terms of positioning. Might have been a call from ETH to help him bed in better to the league (we've seen him getting lobbed already once). So I guess, we are going to see him push up a bit more and more and with him, the defensive line. Which then will decrease the space in between attack and defense. Hopefully helping Casemiro because he won't be on his own in midfield, and hopefully helping some of our attacking players to make more use of their pressing abilities.

The theory isn't faulty, it could work, but it is a big ask. For the record - I wouldn't have went for Mount either, probably would have gone for Amrabat to upgrade on Eriksen and then add another good midfielder on top, that can cover for Casemiro and potentially replace him at some point down the line. Probably would have went for Caicedo even though paying 100 million for him wouldn't have felt right as well.
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Don't get me wrong, I think that De Gea must have been replaced. But I do not think that spending 50m+ in a goalkeeper (and let's be fair here, Onana has never been a great goalkeeper, say a top 5 in the world or anything like that), when you need a top midfielder and a top striker was very wise.

For what is worth, I think Onana is still gonna be the best of the three signings.
 
gajender said:
There are definite Question marks Over Mount's signing but I don't see how Rice and Caicedo were right signings either they are both who have made their name as Defensive Midfielders unless Plan was to replace Casemiro they weren't ideal fit to play alongside Casemiro at all before we even get to their cost.
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Either Caicedo or Rice could easily have played with Casemiro and Bruno and would have made for a much more balanced midfield than what we saw vs Wolves, with Bruno and Mount both pushed forward like twin 10s and Case desperately running around after three Wolves midfielders
 
Pexbo said:
We’ve bought 3 players.

Onana - big upgrade on De Gea.
Mount - will need to settle in but he’s surely an improvement on McFred.
Hojlund - Is he going to be any better than Wout? Yes I think he is.

We should have a better XI than last year when everyone is fit, settled and that equates to a good window.
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This really shouldn't be the comparison, as Weig was a desperation short term do a moderate job merchant.
The comparison should be is he better than Rashy or Martial up there.
 
The window hasn't closed yet, so this thread is a bit premature. The signings we have brought in are good ones, but we absolutely need another 2 players minimum and it would be good to sell another 2 or 3 as well.

Mount gives us some flexibility, but a 3 with him and Bruno just isn't going to work. For me he either replaces Bruno or we need to play a 4 in midfield for him to fit.

If this is the end of our transfer activity, we could be in big trouble. Hopefully we don't fluke a win against Spurs that leads the owners to think that everything is fine with the team the way it is.
 
I dont think anybody expected us to mount a title challenge, but at the very least, we expected good football and more importantly, the ability for this team to be strong in possession and dominant, especially at home against the weaker teams.

Monday's game was a kick in the balls. We should have lost and lost comprehensively. We probably used up all our good fortune for the season in that game. I know its only the 1st game of the season, but it's worrying how poor we looked (btw this was the pattern in pre-season too). Then I see Newcastle, look at the football they're playing, that's how we should be playing. Could you imagine this team trouncing villa 5-1? I certainly can't.

My only modicum of hope, every ETH interview post match I have seen, he looks calm, he knows what we did wrong and hopefully he can fix it. I don't want to go through another season of being battered by every team whilst watching our rivals swoop up the accolades and trophies.
 
Revan said:
Don't get me wrong, I think that De Gea must have been replaced. But I do not think that spending 50m+ in a goalkeeper (and let's be fair here, Onana has never been a great goalkeeper, say a top 5 in the world or anything like that), when you need a top midfielder and a top striker was very wise.

For what is worth, I think Onana is still gonna be the best of the three signings.
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I agree. Having as many problematic positions as we do, would always come back to bite us. I see your point with the outlay for Onana but I think, the GK position is something you shouldn't try to save money on and lets face it - who would have been the alternatives? Maignan and Costa - both would have cost even more. Raya seemed a good deal but also wasn't a standout as Onana (even if only for his footwork). Onanas stats are also good enough, I think, this will turn out as a good transfer.

I am with you though, the 55 mio for Mount have eaten up the budget unfortunately. But many other popular fan choices for this summer would have as well. We need to get smarter because otherwise, we will find ourselves in a similar situation next year. (mistakes like splashing absurd sums on players like Maguire or Antony, only to have them for the season. Never a good idea)
 
So the crap players who have underperformed time and time again are now also the reason we can’t replace said players because they won’t leave :lol:

You have to laugh at just how badly run this club is. Maguire and McT like nah feck it I’m staying and there’s nothing the club will do apart from still pick them in the match day squad

Absolute farce
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Either Caicedo or Rice could easily have played with Casemiro and Bruno and would have made for a much more balanced midfield than what we saw vs Wolves, with Bruno and Mount both pushed forward like twin 10s and Case desperately running around after three Wolves midfielders
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But the Manager doesn't want to go in that direction though the execution needs to get better obviously but for better or worse Ten Hag sees Mount as the one who fits the idea of football he wants to play more than Caicedo and Rice .
 
Once we have striker who can be our focal point, we'd be much much better team.
 
NZT-One said:
I agree. Having as many problematic positions as we do, would always come back to bite us. I see your point with the outlay for Onana but I think, the GK position is something you shouldn't try to save money on and lets face it - who would have been the alternatives? Maignan and Costa - both would have cost even more. Raya seemed a good deal but also wasn't a standout as Onana (even if only for his footwork). Onanas stats are also good enough, I think, this will turn out as a good transfer.

I am with you though, the 55 mio for Mount have eaten up the budget unfortunately. But many other popular fan choices for this summer would have as well. We need to get smarter because otherwise, we will find ourselves in a similar situation next year. (mistakes like splashing absurd sums on players like Maguire or Antony, only to have them for the season. Never a good idea)
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I honestly have no idea whom we could have signed instead, not a professional scout. But I also think that Onana is not a 55m player, he never was. Inter got for free just 12 months ago, there was no interest from other clubs on him. It looks again, that we just signed what the manager wanted (which unsurprisingly it was a player he was familiar with), without looking at other options. Something we have been doing forever, and always bit us in the arse.

I also think that many other clubs have managed to do well by signing cheap keepers.

Ederson cost around 30m, same for Ramsdale, Martinez cost 15m, Pope cost 10m, Raya cost 3m and so on. If you do scouting, you can find keepers that do not cost 50m.

Nevertheless, it is nowhere as a much concern as Mount for 60m.
 
gajender said:
But the Manager doesn't want to go in that direction though the execution needs to get better obviously but for better or worse Ten Hag sees Mount as the one who fits the idea of football he wants to play more than Caicedo and Rice .
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Fair enough but he needs to be able to execute that formation/style of play

You can’t start 2 10’s and 3 forward players then go out and have 40% possession it’s amateur hour preparation
 
Castia said:
Fair enough but he needs to be able to execute that formation/style of play

You can’t start 2 10’s and 3 forward players then go out and have 40% possession it’s amateur hour preparation
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He definitely needs to execute it better and ensure United's Quality of football improves significantly over the coming weeks , its more or less his team now he is hiding to nothing Title Challenge might be bridge too far but Expecting good football while being competitive more often than not against most opponents is the bare minimum for this season .
 
Replies on this thread tell the story about our window so far. Usually this kind of thread would be swarmed by die hard fans and optimists who would attack OP as negative and shit like that.

Only Erik knows what is an idea behind buying Mount (lets trust him in that i guess). Also, we bought a first choice striker for 70 mil and expectations from fans for that striker are "10 or 15 goals this year".:wenger:
Selling smells on another debacle but i am optimistic in that area because clubs will soon start panicking so i hope that McT, Bailly, Harry and Henderson will leave.
 
It is an OK window. 6/10. If Bailly, Williams, Henderson, VdB are sold, it becomes 7/10. In Hojlund and Onana, we have an upgrade on Wout/Ronaldo/Martial, and DDG. I see Mount as an upgrade on VdB/McFred. However, the disappointment is not signing a press-resistant #8. Dittering over Antony last year and overpaying has come back to haunt us. We could do with the extra 25m of his fee in this window.
 
The reality is the window is only so questionable because of Mount. Swap him out for a top midfielder and it’s a good/great window. There is clear logic in the other two signings. Onana is one of the best goalkeepers out there with a progressive style, Hellhound is one of the best young strikers, Mount is a middling to good player brought in to play out of position.
 
Rozay said:
The reality is the window is only so questionable because of Mount. Swap him out for a top midfielder and it’s a good/great window. There is clear logic in the other two signings. Onana is one of the best goalkeepers out there with a progressive style, Hellhound is one of the best young strikers, Mount is a middling to good player brought in to play out of position.
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This definitely made me Chuckle.
 
Red Shorts said:
Get Amrabat in and I would bump it up from a 6 to a 7.
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Get him to do what though? I think people are putting way too much on this potential signing. He’s reportedly a backup for Casemiro. Which means one of the other of them will be on the pitch at a time. Now what does that solve really, when the first XI shape is so bad?

And if your proposal is that he is more than a backup and instead a partner for Casemiro, then it again makes the signing of Mount completely ridiculous as he’ll literally find himself out of our best XI within two weeks of the season, with 6 years left on a 250k a week deal.

So either Amrabat’s signing does nothing except improve our rotation options or it serves to make the signing of Mount totally redundant if he becomes a starter.
 
Revan said:
I honestly have no idea whom we could have signed instead, not a professional scout. But I also think that Onana is not a 55m player, he never was. Inter got for free just 12 months ago, there was no interest from other clubs on him. It looks again, that we just signed what the manager wanted (which unsurprisingly it was a player he was familiar with), without looking at other options. Something we have been doing forever, and always bit us in the arse.

I also think that many other clubs have managed to do well by signing cheap keepers.

Ederson cost around 30m, same for Ramsdale, Martinez cost 15m, Pope cost 10m, Raya cost 3m and so on. If you do scouting, you can find keepers that do not cost 50m.

Nevertheless, it is nowhere as a much concern as Mount for 60m.
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We are just constantly fire fighting and end up having to pay absolutely top end fees or way over the odds. Onana isn’t an elite keeper or worth 55m but I’m sure he’ll do well here though.

It just completely baffles me we aren’t snapping up more young players from France, Scandinavia or South America. Not only do we have gaps in our squad but by time you amortise the costs you almost can’t lose in FFP terms.

This window for me is hugely dependent on Højlund, if he flops it’s a huge issue.
 
Rozay said:
Get him to do what though? I think people are putting way too much on this potential signing. He’s reportedly a backup for Casemiro. Which means one of the other of them will be on the pitch at a time. Now what does that solve really, when the first XI shape is so bad?

And if your proposal is that he is more than a backup and instead a partner for Casemiro, then it again makes the signing of Mount completely ridiculous as he’ll literally find himself out of our best XI within two weeks of the season, with 6 years left on a 250k a week deal.

So either Amrabat’s signing does nothing except improve our rotation options or it serves to make the signing of Mount totally redundant if he becomes a starter.
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Jesus Christ. We are the kings of giving stupid contracts. He was at 80k/week at Chelsea and after being not that good recently, is now at 250k/week.

You can take Judge out of United, but you cannot take United out of Judge, it seems.
 
hobbers said:
No it's still a terrible window. Didn't sell anyone except Fred. Didnt bring in a reliable goalscorer, Hojlund is a good signing if you have the luxury of gambling but not when you have literally no other number 9.

Henderson, McTominay and Maguire stinking up the place for at least another 6 months. No cover for Casemiro. If we dont sign Amrabat we're fecked until January.
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This is the thing about Hojlund what lots of people here refuse to understand. Yes, he looks powerful, he has potential and he is natural no9. It is good move by club to go after him. Even despite the cost.
But it is an investment which you do IF you have already a good and proven striker.

Now it is huge pressure on him to deliver. "10 or 15 goals" in his first season will not be enough if our goals are to win something or even challenge for biggest trophies.
 
Now Maguire is staying it’s dropped significantly in terms of success. Absolute nightmare.
 
Revan said:
I honestly have no idea whom we could have signed instead, not a professional scout. But I also think that Onana is not a 55m player, he never was. Inter got for free just 12 months ago, there was no interest from other clubs on him. It looks again, that we just signed what the manager wanted (which unsurprisingly it was a player he was familiar with), without looking at other options. Something we have been doing forever, and always bit us in the arse.

I also think that many other clubs have managed to do well by signing cheap keepers.

Ederson cost around 30m, same for Ramsdale, Martinez cost 15m, Pope cost 10m, Raya cost 3m and so on. If you do scouting, you can find keepers that do not cost 50m.

Nevertheless, it is nowhere as a much concern as Mount for 60m.
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I agree with the general point that we never find bargains but Onana cost 44m and Raya 30m in the last year of his contract.
 
Rozay said:
Get him to do what though? I think people are putting way too much on this potential signing. He’s reportedly a backup for Casemiro. Which means one of the other of them will be on the pitch at a time. Now what does that solve really, when the first XI shape is so bad?

And if your proposal is that he is more than a backup and instead a partner for Casemiro, then it again makes the signing of Mount completely ridiculous as he’ll literally find himself out of our best XI within two weeks of the season, with 6 years left on a 250k a week deal.

So either Amrabat’s signing does nothing except improve our rotation options or it serves to make the signing of Mount totally redundant if he becomes a starter.
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That may be the plan as things stand, but It means we at least have the option to change our system after someone spanks us 5 or 6-0 due to us having no midfield, or we get played off the park a few times in a row by relegation fodder.

I also think Mount would still get plenty of game time if he performed as he can play in any of the front positions apart from as a striker. It gives us another useful option in terms of how to set up our attack, as well as meaning Fernandes doesn't have to play 90 minutes of every single game. It would actually make him into a player we kind of needed. Just not someone I'd have prioritised over a keeper/striker, or CM if I'd known we'd be trying to sell Fred/McTominay.

The PL is just too competitive now to get away with having obvious imbalance in your team. Nearly every opponent will have done enough homework and have the athleticism in their team to exploit it.
 
Idxomer said:
I agree with the general point that we never find bargains but Onana cost 44m and Raya 30m in the last year of his contract.
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I obviously meant Raya in the previous transfer. Onana is 47m + add ons, right?
 
Red Shorts said:
Get Amrabat in and I would bump it up from a 6 to a 7.
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What Amrabat will solve exactly? He will give Case a rest then and there. He is not game changer. He is not going straight in first 11 and transforming our team in bigger force. That is Mount. Mount is the one who we picked as our priority signing who will make difference on the pitch. Can he do it? I hope he can but i really don't know how. Regarding him i must use that phrase; " I trust that our manager has clear vision about him".
 
noodlehair said:
That may be the plan as things stand, but It means we at least have the option to change our system after someone spanks us 5 or 6-0 due to us having no midfield, or we get played off the park a few times in a row by relegation fodder.

I also think Mount would still get plenty of game time if he performed as he can play in any of the front positions apart from as a striker. It gives us another useful option in terms of how to set up our attack, as well as meaning Fernandes doesn't have to play 90 minutes of every single game. It would actually make him into a player we kind of needed. Just not someone I'd have prioritised over a keeper/striker, or CM if I'd known we'd be trying to sell Fred/McTominay.

The PL is just too competitive now to get away with having obvious imbalance in your team. Nearly every opponent will have done enough homework and have the athleticism in their team to exploit it.
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I don’t disagree as ultimately, I don’t like this current midfield setup either. But then if we call it for what it actually is, then Amrabat begins to become something of a disappointment in his own right IMO. Because you can’t get away with pushing for Amrabat because he makes sense as a cheap and reasonable backup for Casemiro, but then change this same player to a first XI partner for Casemiro. Because if that is indeed the spec, then it changes everything and Amrabat is nowhere near the top of any hypothetical list I’d draw to come in to be a first XI regular. His signing makes most sense when the job spec is as a rotational DM, and becomes more questionable once upgraded, as we seem to be doing now.

Kind of all points back to the signing of Mount. I agree with the profile you proposed for him - I’ve said, I see him as more of a Fletcher/Park ‘will still get plenty of games’ level of player for a really top side. The only issue is he has been bought and is being paid as something far greater than that, which then presents an opportunity cost. As it stands, his signing is the black spot against this summer’s business, and it has had a knock on effect because perhaps instead of backup - we now need to sign Amrabat to correct it (already), and given when we’ve already spent on Mount, it has restricted us from buying a better player than Amrabat to be a starter.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Bruno, Mount, Case, Eriksen, McT, Mainoo, Donny. That is 7 midfielders. You can't bring new players while not selling previous ones.
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That’s a point of view.

Another point of view is that: 2 are not midfielders but No.10, one is a kid, two are garbage and 2 are over 30.
 
If we're officially done now I'll be seriously worried for our midfield. Especially if Casemiro does fall off a cliff.
 
Onana is the only signing that I'm confident about right now.

We were a lot more organised in terms of not chasing unrealistic targets and getting drawn into a big transfer Saga that ends in disappointment but right now that Mount money and potentially even Højlund would have better been served trying to get Osimhen and Amrabat.

But it's the outgoing players who's deals all suddenly collapsed meaning we are stuck with the likes of Maguire, McTominay, Bailly, Martial that's putting a real damper on things right now.
 
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