We have shut up shop by not attacking. That in it self is a fix but not a great one.
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
- Thread starter Untd55
- Start date
I don't know why people want to tag every goal to some defender mistake. If we go with that, we won't have even a single good defender or attacker too.
It was inch perfect cross and well timed run from Welbeck with bit of luck that rebound came directly to him.
It was inch perfect cross and well timed run from Welbeck with bit of luck that rebound came directly to him.
Our defence is allright but not elite. One more centre back, some competition for AWB and we'll be fine.
Those who dont rate McT should know he has scored more goals for us in the Prem this season than Pogba 4-3. Freddddddd..who needs a fancy name
Not the premier league, but FA cup in the bag
To the original author, NO. We were supposed to get rid of the dead wood. But the truth is we have kept them and put them on even longer contracts. Bailly has agreed terms that will run until June 2024, with the option of a further year. Yup. And Under Ole Phil Jones was offered an extended contract deal on Feb, 2019 which runs till 2023 – with a seemingly laughable option to extend to 2024.
Where is he? Nowhere. Money for old crud.
Where is he? Nowhere. Money for old crud.
I have never believed in the talk like “that team can’t win titles with that defence”. Ok if it is super poor. But that’s not how it works. I think City would have had a chance to win with our defence. I’m not so sure we would have won with their defence.
I think City could have won with Maguire starting. And we'd have been better with Stones or Dias next to Maguire no doubt about it. Not sure it would be enough to win the title based on that alone.
I do think we need to sign a CB but in my opinion, a defensive midfielder who can get about the park and is comfortable on the ball is the biggest necessity.
Bailly & Lindelof wouldn't have been as exposed had we got someone in midfield that could protect them properly.
I do rate McTominay and Fred as squad options but neither should be starting for us.
Fabinho is the prime example. Klopp plays him at CB and Liverpool struggle game after game as there is nobody in front to protect them.
They swap him back to midfield and bring in a less talented CB and somehow they look sturdier.
All due to Fabinho in defence midfield.
Bailly & Lindelof wouldn't have been as exposed had we got someone in midfield that could protect them properly.
I do rate McTominay and Fred as squad options but neither should be starting for us.
Fabinho is the prime example. Klopp plays him at CB and Liverpool struggle game after game as there is nobody in front to protect them.
They swap him back to midfield and bring in a less talented CB and somehow they look sturdier.
All due to Fabinho in defence midfield.
I don’t say that a player here there couldn’t improve, but the talk about can’t win titles is what I’m not buying. The Leicester title now was one good example but cups are of course very different from a league. I think our first back 4 have a good record defensively and when they have played we have a point per game average similar to City’s. (2.2 points per game)
I think City had won if they had our defence even though some claim Harry would never fit in a Pep team.
Set pieces are the problem. Goals conceded:
We're not doing too badly in open play. So talk of a DM fixing everything is missing the point. It's centreback where we need to focus.
The main issue United have is in defending set pieces. Henderson has already made us visibly better in that regard. But a better CB partner for Maguire would go a long way to fixing the issue.
I guess a replacement for Fred to help defend freekicks might also help. But McTominay is already a strong presence in our own box, so he's doing his part. It would be a mistake to replace the latter without fixing CB first - especially if we're going to persist with AWB at RB who has his own shortcomings in that area. The team needs more help in the air, not less.
| R | Team | Open Play | Counter Attack | Set Piece | Penalty | Own Goal |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Manchester City | 14 | 1 | 5 | 8 | 1 |
| 2 | Manchester United | 21 | 1 | 14 | 4 | 2 |
| 3 | Chelsea | 22 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 1 |
| 4 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 23 | 3 | 12 | 6 | 3 |
| 5 | Brighton | 23 | 1 | 10 | 6 | 2 |
| 6 | Leicester | 24 | 6 | 10 | 3 | 1 |
| 7 | Tottenham | 24 | 0 | 7 | 8 | 2 |
| 8 | Arsenal | 25 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 4 |
| 9 | Leeds | 26 | 2 | 15 | 8 | 2 |
| 10 | Aston Villa | 26 | 2 | 7 | 5 | 1 |
| 11 | Liverpool | 26 | 1 | 10 | 4 | 0 |
| 12 | Everton | 28 | 3 | 7 | 3 | 1 |
| 13 | West Ham | 31 | 2 | 6 | 3 | 4 |
| 14 | Fulham | 35 | 1 | 7 | 6 | 1 |
| 15 | Crystal Palace | 39 | 5 | 12 | 3 | 0 |
| 16 | Burnley | 39 | 1 | 7 | 3 | 1 |
| 17 | Sheffield United | 40 | 5 | 11 | 3 | 3 |
| 18 | Newcastle United | 41 | 6 | 8 | 4 | 3 |
| 19 | Southampton | 44 | 4 | 6 | 8 | 1 |
| 20 | West Bromwich Albion | 48 | 2 | 9 | 6 | 3 |
We're not doing too badly in open play. So talk of a DM fixing everything is missing the point. It's centreback where we need to focus.
The main issue United have is in defending set pieces. Henderson has already made us visibly better in that regard. But a better CB partner for Maguire would go a long way to fixing the issue.
I guess a replacement for Fred to help defend freekicks might also help. But McTominay is already a strong presence in our own box, so he's doing his part. It would be a mistake to replace the latter without fixing CB first - especially if we're going to persist with AWB at RB who has his own shortcomings in that area. The team needs more help in the air, not less.
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Our team is based around the options we have at CB. We have 2 DMs because our defence isnt trusted without them. So City wouldnt be playing the same lineup with our CBs
Our defence has conceded more than Liverpool's 
and we've mostly had a really good season with keeping players fit.
and we've mostly had a really good season with keeping players fit.Isnt it a bit of both. That is a valid reason but what really are our options in central midfield. Its those two or Pogba that has its frailties, its VDB who isnt playing or performing when he does or Matic who is getting on now......even forgetting or defence, forget the names, for a club our size and a side that is to challenge for the title, they really arent great options, though of course outside of Maguire, neither are our centre backs. I think that is telling for what we need this summer as personally I think a centre back and TWO central midfielders hold a bigger priority than attacking players
What about Shaw, he has been the most consistent left back in the premier League this season. It's our Centre back pairing that's the problem made worse by the lack of a quality Defensive midfielder.
I posted that 18 months ago, what is wrong with you?
Add Trippier and I think it's fixed.
our defence is fixed
Minus trippier and it'll be a huge dissappointment if we dont have a very good defensive record next season
I remember so many people on here arguing that we had a good defense because we conceded the second least goals the season before and said I was nitpicking when I pointed out a good defense doesn't average nearly a goal conceded a game.
On paper we look like we're fixed, but let's see if we finally make changes to how we defend set pieces. If we continuously leave the biggest aerial threat alone, adding Varane won't help us there.
If this defence will not be top then all coaches and manager should be sacked. This is top of the pops defence now
You mean least goals conceded?
I mean that this defence should work great without having two dmc to cover it and without us playing defensive football.
This is, imo, best defence in PL. Dave is still very good gk, Shaw is top lb, Varane is world class defender and Harry is best English defender. I am not a fan of AWB (because of his complete lack of technique) but he is reliable right back.
I expect great stuff from this defence.
Adding Trippier would be the final piece of the defensive jigsaw.
In fact the back four with Trippier and Varane suddenly looks quite formidable.
In fact the back four with Trippier and Varane suddenly looks quite formidable.
There's "quality of defence" as in how good the team is at not conceding goals. That's not just about the back four. And there's "quality of defence" as in what the players in the back four contribute to the team. That's not just about how many goals you concede. Important to be clear about which of the two we're talking about.
All things considered, I think it's fair to say according to the latter of those of definitions that we now have a back four that is of comparable quality to City and Liverpool. All 3 teams have world class quality in 3 of those 4 slots, and a bit less in the 4th. And they are all back fours capable of contributing quite a lot in transition and attack. Liverpool's more than the others, but then that comes out with a correspondingly greater defensive onus on the central midfield that contributes less to the attack than ours and City's does.
Tough comparison with Chelsea, as they play a back 3 (or 5). No one else should be close. It's really looking quite markedly like a clear top 4 this year, much more so than a year ago.
By the former definition, that'll depend a lot on selections, posture and performance in other positions too (especially in goal and in the midfield), and on how we do on defensive set-pieces (which again involves a lot more players than just the back 4).
All things considered, I think it's fair to say according to the latter of those of definitions that we now have a back four that is of comparable quality to City and Liverpool. All 3 teams have world class quality in 3 of those 4 slots, and a bit less in the 4th. And they are all back fours capable of contributing quite a lot in transition and attack. Liverpool's more than the others, but then that comes out with a correspondingly greater defensive onus on the central midfield that contributes less to the attack than ours and City's does.
Tough comparison with Chelsea, as they play a back 3 (or 5). No one else should be close. It's really looking quite markedly like a clear top 4 this year, much more so than a year ago.
By the former definition, that'll depend a lot on selections, posture and performance in other positions too (especially in goal and in the midfield), and on how we do on defensive set-pieces (which again involves a lot more players than just the back 4).
Yeah we have very good defense. Wouldn't say best in PL but nothing much between ours, pool and City's defense. Chelsea is hard to rate as they play 3 CB system, as a team they are very good defensively too.
Looking at the stats above, and looking at the number of times we conceded from corners and free kicks (man that last minute Everton goal still gets on my nerves), its clear that our defense is fine if we can defend set pieces better.
The next step would be to see if we can manage most games with one covering midfielder, and allow Pogba and Bruno and the like to dominate the ball and break teams down.
The next step would be to see if we can manage most games with one covering midfielder, and allow Pogba and Bruno and the like to dominate the ball and break teams down.
Last season we conceded more than Liverpool who had their entire CB roster out
Still no.
Well, Maguire was our best centre back by a mile prior to signing Varane. I think that says more about how incredibly poor our squad options are. Maguire on his day is top quality, but when he's not performing at a high level his flaws are a lot more exposed, and they limit the team tactically.
I think Varane has already shown that he's our best defender. Took him 5 minutes.
I think Varane has already shown that he's our best defender. Took him 5 minutes.
Our defence is fixed. We are 1 and a a half DMs short of being really good.
With out hard working players modern day defending will never be fulfilled. United under Fergie always resembled balance. Many hard working players in those teams.
One or two maximum for attack alone but all others were technically sound hard working players.From Rooney to Valencia to young Keane park ji sung scholes Evra neville. You name it. Can't make too many defensively passengers in solid team.
One or two maximum for attack alone but all others were technically sound hard working players.From Rooney to Valencia to young Keane park ji sung scholes Evra neville. You name it. Can't make too many defensively passengers in solid team.
Ball retention being so poor throughout the whole team means teams get to hit us on the counter/transition for fun. Our pressing being so poor means teams cut right through us all day and have a free run at the defence.
People said now we've signed Varane the defence won't need as much protection... all defences need protection. You can't keep losing the ball needlessly and fail to win it back or fail to make the tactical fouls to break up the attacks.
We still look far from solid, Wolves our only clean sheet this season and in that game we should have conceded about 4.
People said now we've signed Varane the defence won't need as much protection... all defences need protection. You can't keep losing the ball needlessly and fail to win it back or fail to make the tactical fouls to break up the attacks.
We still look far from solid, Wolves our only clean sheet this season and in that game we should have conceded about 4.
I’m a bit worried about the defence still, but Maguires individual performances have been below his usual standard, so there’s that to consider. He’ll get back to his level at some point. But still, four goals conceded is a concern when our rivals have each conceded just one (albeit only at half time in the Chelsea game) despite us not having played a big team yet.
I feel This Is normal for him. He has always had a degree of shakyness and we conceded more than Arsenal last season. The Euro performances do not emulate the Utd ones
Still no.
Maguire is in horrible form, Varane injured, AWB is just not progressing to that elite level yet and Shaw is having one of his rough periods again where he looks devoid of confidence. The defence is a mess but to be fair, the whole team is.
The difference between Liverpool's fullbacks and ours today was night and day. I'd actually start Telles and Dalot if just to give them a warning or a rest or whatever it is they need. Playing them isn't helping and we're leaking goals.
The difference between Liverpool's fullbacks and ours today was night and day. I'd actually start Telles and Dalot if just to give them a warning or a rest or whatever it is they need. Playing them isn't helping and we're leaking goals.
It’s the structure of the team that’s the problem and the lack of any organisation and coaching.
Defence not fixed. Attack also not fixed.
Don't think so.