Olympics boxing controversy - IBA bans lifted on Lin and Khelif by IOC

klsv

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Anyone willing to help me understand the case with Imane Khelif?

Here's what I've gathered:

She participated in the Tokyo games with no issues and has been in women's boxing for years, with no issues and no controversy, winning some, losing some.

IBA banned her from the world champs, with the president of IBA saying her testosterone levels were too high and that she had XY chromosomes.

IBA seems like a very problematic organization. Their president having ties to Putin and once they randomly decided to ban Ukrainian boxers and make them fight under a neutral flag (for whatever reason).

Right wing media are now straight up saying that Khelif is a man, or at least, a trans woman, although it seems she was assigned female at birth.

Algerians on Twitter are a bit mad about the situation, saying gender affirming surgery isn't allowed in Algeria and well, that the country is a bit anti-LGBTQ. They're also sharing posts of what seems like a Khelif as a kid to prove their point.

IOC saying all is well.
 
klsv said:
Anyone willing to help me understand the case with Imane Khelif?

Here's what I've gathered:

She participated in the Tokyo games with no issues and has been in women's boxing for years, with no issues and no controversy, winning some, losing some.

IBA banned her from the world champs, with the president of IBA saying her testosterone levels were too high and that she had XY chromosomes.

IBA seems like a very problematic organization. Their president having ties to Putin and once they randomly decided to ban Ukrainian boxers and make them fight under a neutral flag (for whatever reason).

Right wing media are now straight up saying that Khelif is a man, or at least, a trans woman, although it seems she was assigned female at birth.

Algerians on Twitter are a bit mad about the situation, saying gender affirming surgery isn't allowed in Algeria and well, that the country is a bit anti-LGBTQ. They're also sharing posts of what seems like a Khelif as a kid to prove their point.

IOC saying all is well.
Click to expand...
The exact same situation is happening with Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-ting as well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/c4ngr93d9pgo.amp
 
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What a disgrace that this was allowed to happen at all
 
I’m confused on the boxing. Based on the clip, the Italian appears to have been punched once and then given up? Was that a political statement against Khelif’s inclusion? If not, what was brave about it?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is the Algerian fighter a trans woman? Or intersex like Seminya? Weren't they assigned female sex at birth?
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From what I've read this is where reports conflict. IBA say that they have XY chromosomes. IOC say that they failed testosterone levels.
 
Cant wait to see next match ass whooping, gonna be great
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is the Algerian fighter a trans woman? Or intersex like Seminya? Weren't they assigned female sex at birth?
Click to expand...

First glance it looks like the IBA picked up a high testosterone measurement and did a genetic test. They then banned her as genetically male.

The Olympic committee monitoring the boxing competition won't work with the IBA as the IBA are reckoned to have a history of corruption and malpractice. They applied the old IOC rules and say that she qualifies - I think those rules will be a testosterone level thing, but I don't know.

My guess is that like Caster, she's intersex/DSD. I've got a lot of sympathy for her.
 
jojojo said:
First glance it looks like the IBA picked up a high testosterone measurement and did a genetic test. They then banned her as genetically male.

The Olympic committee monitoring the boxing competition won't work with the IBA as the IBA are reckoned to have a history of corruption and malpractice. They applied the old IOC rules and say that she qualifies - I think those rules will be a testosterone level thing, but I don't know.

My guess is that like Caster, she's intersex/DSD. I've got a lot of sympathy for her.
Click to expand...

So the IOC didn't check chromosomes because T levels were acceptable?
 
jojojo said:
My guess is that like Caster, she's intersex/DSD. I've got a lot of sympathy for her.
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Me too. It's one of the things difficult about this stuff. You require transparency to help make the right decisions and to stop the insane vitriol these situations stir up but also by wanting transparency, you're asking people to open up about seriously personal information. While understandable, it is not without sympathy.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is the Algerian fighter a trans woman? Or intersex like Seminya? Weren't they assigned female sex at birth?
Click to expand...
I've been hunting for conclusive evidence and such but it seems from what I can gather that they have male chromosome but might have a DSD factor. It's pretty unclear exactly. The fighter in question failed two sex tests apparently.
 
jojojo said:
First glance it looks like the IBA picked up a high testosterone measurement and did a genetic test. They then banned her as genetically male.

The Olympic committee monitoring the boxing competition won't work with the IBA as the IBA are reckoned to have a history of corruption and malpractice. They applied the old IOC rules and say that she qualifies - I think those rules will be a testosterone level thing, but I don't know.

My guess is that like Caster, she's intersex/DSD. I've got a lot of sympathy for her.
Click to expand...
Was Caster intersex?
 
There are a lot of issues hear. Firstly, no consistency between the IBA and IOC. Looks like there's no consistency regarding testing and it's resulted in a fighter being cleared to participate in the Olympics under a cloud. The IOC have to come out here and clear this matter up and, if they are fully behind Khelif participating in these Olympics and they deem it fair for her to compete, then they have to come out and stand by their decision. By ignoring this one, this situation could snowball and make an already sensitive situation more precarious. What if Khelif or any other athlete who is competing under a similar set of circumstances wins a medal? The IOC have made a decision to clear this athlete and they now need to own up/stand by their decision, if they deem it the right one.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So the IOC didn't check chromosomes because T levels were acceptable?
Click to expand...
I don't think the old IOC rules mention chromosomes. The Tokyo set I think only talks about testosterone.

The IOC was desperately trying to get out of the middle of the trans-athletes debate at that time. So they switched to "each sporting authority" should work it out. When they decided they didn't trust IBA they went to "old rules".

I don't know which sites to trust on this though, so I'm not claiming knowledge of the details of who did/didn't test what and whether their tests were trustworthy.
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:






Totally normal world.
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There was quite a bit of pressure on her (from what I could see online) to boycott this fight. I was looking forward to it purely to see if she would fight or not. I feel sorry for both fighters to be honest. This is a crazy situation.
 
jojojo said:
I don't think the old IOC rules mention chromosomes. The Tokyo set I think only talks about testosterone.

The IOC was desperately trying to get out of the middle of the trans-athletes debate at that time. So they switched to "each sporting authority" should work it out. When they decided they didn't trust IBA they went to "old rules".

I don't know which sites to trust on this though, so I'm not claiming knowledge of the details of who did/didn't test what and whether their tests were trustworthy.
Click to expand...

Ah. So a total cluster-feck really.
 
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Antony in trouble again?
 
I don't understand 90% of the posts here. No terms please. Just is it a man or not?
 
Can someone explain how you can fail a test saying you’re a female athlete and then not fail a test a year later?

Genuine enquiry here like what is the science of it?
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I don't understand 90% of the posts here. No terms please. Just is it a man or not?
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She's a woman and as far as we know she was a girl baby before that.

Is her biochemistry (and maybe internal organ structure) typically female - maybe not. Her chromosones may be more like a typical man. We don't know. We think that we know her current testosterone level is below the 2020 IOC standard.

That's why it's a particularly cruel situation and not one that should really be played at out in what's likely to be a highly politicised click hungry and ever angry twitter world.
 
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