Bring back Rangnick.
Ole when sacked vs Ten Hag currently
- Thread starter Scandi Red
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This is such a telling comment. You can't see beyond the 8th placed finishes, and don't recognise that those were the steps neccesary to assemble the team that Arsenal have now.
The EPL is a very tough league, headed by one of the best club sides ever assembled. However, if United can’t get out of a group ahead of Galatasaray and Copenhagen, it has to be a sackable offence. Let’s see where we are in 5-6 weeks in terms of league and CL results. At the moment, ETH looks lost.
So you’re saying ETH should be sacked right now before a lighter run of games to salvage the season?
Are they new?
Rock-n-Roll football at its finest
The massive caveat being that Ole was obviously on a much longer leash given his legend status.
Ideally a couple of weeks ago, but you get my point.
Salvaging the season would be what, finishing 5th at best and not passing the group stage?
Is that enough for a manager who spent over 400m? Whom after 15 months in charge and 14 transfers had built a squad that cannot defend, attack or pass?
Ole remains the only manager to do the double in the league over City in a season. That alone puts him miles above ETH for me. Not to mention the entertainment factor - we had the ability to just blow teams away occasionally even if we weren’t the most tactically astute (even if we were better than the Ole haters would like to admit).
But the end of the day - I enjoyed being a United fan a lot more when he was in charge. That may not be true for online fans but the place was just bouncing when things were good with Ole. The dream of a Fergie disciple taking us back to the top was more fulfilling than any success we can get under these hired hands managers.
But the end of the day - I enjoyed being a United fan a lot more when he was in charge. That may not be true for online fans but the place was just bouncing when things were good with Ole. The dream of a Fergie disciple taking us back to the top was more fulfilling than any success we can get under these hired hands managers.
The only reason to sack a manager mid-season is if you're in a doom spiral and you need to take emergency measures to stop it. Otherwise its infinitely preferable to wait til the end of the season.
What do people hope to achieve by sacking Ten Hag? There's no readymade replacement. It's mid-season. It's likely yet another caretaker / write-off season if we sack. The signings were all made to suit Ten Hag's philosophy.
The guy finished 3rd last season and had us playing reasonably modern football. Just let everyone come back from injury and re-assess at the end of the season.
If the Ten Hag project fails, Murtough needs to be sacked as well for the mess they'd both leave us in. Extremely likely that players like Antony, Martinez, Mount and Onana won't fit the new manager's vision. Rashford on that monster contract, probably Casemiro and Varane on the decline as well.
The guy finished 3rd last season and had us playing reasonably modern football. Just let everyone come back from injury and re-assess at the end of the season.
If the Ten Hag project fails, Murtough needs to be sacked as well for the mess they'd both leave us in. Extremely likely that players like Antony, Martinez, Mount and Onana won't fit the new manager's vision. Rashford on that monster contract, probably Casemiro and Varane on the decline as well.
Solksjaer was in his 4th season in the job and that should be the end of discussion.
For all of Ole's shortcomings - and there were many - he was never on the end of a string of results away from home like Ten Hag has been. Even if we played poorly, I always felt we could nick something away from home in the big games.
The manner of the spankings against sides away from home in the top half of the table should be reason enough to look elsewhere. The 0-7 embarrassment at Anfield and 3-6 demolition at the Berties were massive red flags this wasn't going to end well.
The manner of the spankings against sides away from home in the top half of the table should be reason enough to look elsewhere. The 0-7 embarrassment at Anfield and 3-6 demolition at the Berties were massive red flags this wasn't going to end well.
and Mengi.
Disingenuous. I hardly count his caretaker season as that was basically Mourinho’s season and we were really good under Ole until everyone got injured and there was a comedown because of lack of physical fitness.
He had two full seasons where he finished 3rd and 2nd. And then he caused his own downfall by not being strong enough against Ronaldo and then bad man management (something that was supposed to be his strength).
I agree and we are not there yet. But we are on course (successive home losses to Crystal Palace and Galatasaray) and another month or so of this crap before City potentially putting 7 past us and we will be there. It’s time for ETH to show what he’s made of.
If you do not count his caretaker season, Solskjaer's record becomes much worse immediately. The best spell under him came when the team was freed of Mourinho, and it stopped when the team learned Solksjaer was going to be the permanent manager.
Point is, Solskjaer had much more time to get it right and then did not. Ten Hag deserves more time.
Not another one and a half season of inconsistent, patchy performances, mind - like Solskjaer was granted. But he deserves this season to implement real improvement. If it turns out he can not, we must look for someone else.
How about if we consider his two full seasons with ETH’s full seasons?
ETH is granted way more leeway in terms of insults and public mocking than Ole ever got. I mean he got beat 7-0 to Liverpool, you’d never know it by the way media and fans go on about his tactical prowess and promise.
That is because Ten Hag has a great managerial record at Ajax to show for, unlike Solskjaer who did not have anything like that. Solskjaer should have never gotten the job in the first place, no competent top club board would have hired him. Whereas Ten Hag was the best available manager the club could have hired.
But still, in the end you are right, results of the work must be compared, and of course Ten Hag's work will have to stand up against predecessors that have (rightly) been sacked.
Yes, that makes a big difference of course. I don't think that Ole was sacked for the points tally or league position. 6 points behind top 4 is nothing when there are 26 games left. He ran out of time and probably lost the dressing room. There's no going back from that.
If we don't improve soon then I guess we will find out how patient the club actually is with our managers. No one apart from Moyes has been sacked in less than 2 seasons.
Ole went on several long runs of unbeaten form. His highest was 14 games unbeaten in the league, next highest 13 and then two sets of 12 games (one of which was the run you posted about). We'd actually go on some semi decent runs of form under Ole, we just drew a few too many games and had the habit of falling behind first so it always felt a bit chaotic. Jose has the highest on 25 games unbeaten, followed by a run of 10 games and then a run of 8 games. Probably best you dont ask about LVG and Moyes as their runs are not good.
Ten Hags longest unbeaten run in the league is currently 6 games, which ironically was in his first 8 league games (lost the first 2).
As water boy.
He needs to pin it on what’s app and it won’t happen again
I just looked at the other starts to the season under Ole out of curiosity.
19/20 after 7 games:
- 9 points
- Goal difference: +2
- League position: 10
- Points behind top four: 3
20/21 after 7 games:
- 10 points
- Goal difference: -2
- League position: 14*
- Points behind top four: 6*
* one game in hand
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We have been very slow starters for a long time now, that's for sure. I guess this also proves that the season is far from over. Our current predicament is only marginally worse and we still finished 3rd and 2nd both times before. I think the current team (when everyone is fit) is much better on paper than any team Ole had. And Ten Hag has a better resume too. All in all I see no reason to panic yet.
19/20 after 7 games:
- 9 points
- Goal difference: +2
- League position: 10
- Points behind top four: 3
20/21 after 7 games:
- 10 points
- Goal difference: -2
- League position: 14*
- Points behind top four: 6*
* one game in hand
-----------
We have been very slow starters for a long time now, that's for sure. I guess this also proves that the season is far from over. Our current predicament is only marginally worse and we still finished 3rd and 2nd both times before. I think the current team (when everyone is fit) is much better on paper than any team Ole had. And Ten Hag has a better resume too. All in all I see no reason to panic yet.
At least be consistent when trying to make a point. Ole in his debut year needed a win on the final day of the season to get top 4 and was more than 30 points from Liverpool. That too after he had half season with them prior to know his squad and instil his methods.
You do chat a lot of shite don't youtrying to move posts AGAIN and using ten hags debut year as comparable to a manager who has had a year more time in the job. feck me.
It's not exhaustive shit. Arsenal's standards right now is to challenge for the title which started 3 years ago. That is not less than Man Utd project which started 1 year ago, and anyone thinking it would take less than 2 or 3 seasons to challenge properly is mentally lacking.
You're right about the league finishes, it's a good thing Ten Hag didn't get as bad as 8th so for the 100th time, chill the feck out with the ten hag hate.
Ole finished 3rd in his first season which guess what is the same position your god manager managed to finish last season. Next season he finished 2nd 12 points away from 2nd spot. Ten Hag will be lucky to finish even 20 points away from top spot this year.
Yet one is deemed a miserable failure while the other is deemed as a success..
Work this shit out.
Arsenal have been an irrelevant club for more than 16 years and no one cares if they finish 8th every season under the same manager. The level of standards and expectations are different. The media will eat any manager alive at United if he finishes 8th because people expect more from United.
He finished 3rd, and was a L on the final day of the season finishing 5th. He also finished 9 points lower than what Ten Hag in his debut year and won feck all.
Next time you want to make punts, at least come out with stronger basis when comparing the 2 managers.
Because 1 did fail, and the other won silverware in his first season, reached 2 finals and ended up on a better points tally than the other manager did in 3.5 attempts. Literally no manager, even ones with world class pedigree got the time Ole had. And he failed, hard. Ten Hag outdid him in 1 season coming from the Dutch league, that tells you what a big failure Ole is.
The story is yet to be written for Ten Hag, so you can hope for him to fail all you want, and cry as it may well never happen.
I don't give two shits about Arsenal for 16 years. I care about the point I made regarding Arteta having bigger lows than Ten Hag and now having put together a team capable of challenging a treble winning City in back to back seasons. That's where backing projects can take you, and that's also evidence that projects take time, and that projects get uglier before they get better.
And yet, you come out with the most utter dross, guesstimating what will happen to Ten Hag and lazily comparing him to Ole because you have not one leg to stand on.
He finished 3rd, which ultimately what matters in comparison to the same position Ten Hag accomplished. That precious silverware you keep on mentioning and the 2 finals had us meeting the easiest possible run in both cups while Ole was facing Liverpool and Chelsea back to back in cup competitions.
Fa Cup run : Everton, Reading, WHU, Fulham, Brighton.
EFL Cup run: Aston Villa, Burnley, Charlton, Nottingham.
The first top 4 team Ten Hag faced in both competitions was in the final, yet you act like he made a huge achievement winning this cup (which is the least important one in England). It's the bare minimum expected going by these runs.
Anyway, the point isn't Ole was a success or not (he was a failure). The point is the double standards. One finished 3rd and 2nd while reaching a Europe League final and deemed a failure while another one finished 3rd and won a Mickey Mouse cup and deemed a savior for United. He even got that Fa Cup final as an achievement worthy to be mentioned unlike the EL final for Ole who's deemed a huge failure.
Ten Hag will be lucky to even finish 4th this season never yet 2nd like the previous 2 managers managed in their 2nd seasons.
This is just delusion. You're basically building your belief that the current manager will be your savior because another club lucked it out with another manager or that his project managed to succeed. You're basically saying any manager with time and money will end up a success because Arsenal managed it once. You built your belief in the manager's project on what you're seeing on the pitch. Arsenal thought Arteta is improving the team despite the results and since they have no much pressure on them it gave them enough freedom to experiment (if that was actually based on any kind of science which I highly doubt, they probably just lucked it). What are you seeing on the pitch that proves Ten Hag even has a project to believe in, to start with ?
It's just delusion and hopeful thinking.
Yet to keep on replying on my posts, which says more about you than me, by the way.
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Well you'd have to be asking for a Chelsea level behind the scenes and squad restructuring to do more than Man Utd has done since Rangnick was at the club.
No I'm saying Kane was ETH's first choice. The club hierarchy said no and we moved on to Hojlund. If ETH did have the full power like people say then we'd have gone all out for Kane regardless.
Like Hodgson and Vieira last season.
This is the correct answer.
Ole fan boys slagging off ETH fan boys is fecking hilarious though.
Multiple threads all asking the same question but in slightly different ways. Nice.
What I'm going to say is this: United need to start evaluating their options but refrain from making any phone calls concerning the availability of candidates for the job.
What I'm going to say is this: United need to start evaluating their options but refrain from making any phone calls concerning the availability of candidates for the job.
The extent at which you'll clutch at straws is something else. He got 9 points more than Ole's debut year and won a cup and you're now talking about runs to the final. Jesus wept, have a word. You asked what Ten Hag did to cut the gap, I showed tangible improvement in his debut year vs others, in fact he's the only manager post Ferguson to get top 4 and silverware in his debut year and your arguments are reduced to this. Have some shame.
No - I am making a point that Ten Hag was objectively more better than Ole in his debut year - a rabbit hole you chose to go down because you were lost in what was beind debated.
Ole won NOTHING and his best season finishing 2nd wasn't even beating the points tally Ten Hag had. Ten Hag walked in and cut the gap United had on City by half in one year. You asked what he showed to compete, I gave proof of him cutting the gap.
You then chose to deny it over bollocks like comparing other campaigns against his debut year (which is clearly flawed because those projects were 2 years into the process, not 1).
Yes you don't like Ten Hag - he's still our manager and he'll get time to turn it around. Cry more, and make more stuff in your head that never happened to get angry about.
Says the man who wants to compare projects in year 2 and 3 to projects in year 1. Delusion is right.
Didn't once say he was our savior.
Reading posts is a problem for you.
My belief is based on the fact that Ten Hag built up enough goodwill over the last season to be earned more than 10 games. I don't really give two shits about other clubs, outside of drawing them as an illustration to make you understand projects take time. And it seems you still can't grasp that, which is extremely sad for you.
No we didn’t! In no metric did we get much worse man.
He inherited a team that finished 2nd 12 points from the top spot one year ago. We were just having an off season. It's not like we were away from top 4 for years before he arrived.
Both finished 3rd in their first season. The only difference is Ole had to face Chelsea and Man City in the semi final of both cup competitions while Ten Hag faced Brighton and Nottingham. When he faced City in the Fa Cup final he lost. The luck of the draw that's all.
Ole got 2nd in his 2nd season so let's see what our glorious manager will accomplish this season.
I already compared the net results of their debut season above.
Ten Hag won a pointless trophy with a piss easy run. It's ridiculous to keep using this as some sort of a win over another manager who kept on facing City, Chelsea and Liverpool in QFs and SFs of domestic cups every year.
Again, the team Ten Hag inherited was just on off form, they weren't shit and they weren't away from top 4 for years. The season before it we were 12 points away from City.
Cool. Someone this morning was arguing this forum doesn't have cultists for Ten Hag. Hopefully he's reading this. That's basically what a cultist will say.
For the record, I don't like shit coaches.
Let's see what your savior will manage in his 2nd season currently going, shall we ? Ole finished 2nd and got a Europe League final in his 2nd season. Let's see.
You don't to say it because it obvious.
Yet you keep on replying on me.
Keep on pretending last season was a miraculous achievement no other United manager post Ferguson managed to accomplish then deny it the moment you get confronted.
He didn't take over 1 year ago. He took over aside that was completely and utterly lost and looking uncoached, so your point just collapsed on itself, as did the others.
One had a 6 month head-start to implement his system (and got KO'ed out of whatever competitions he was still in as interim), then he went on in his full season to continue to choke in cups, and finished 9 points below the other. You struggle with acknowledging all the facts.
You asked about bridging the gap to City. Ole finished 12 points behind City in his 2nd full season (2.5 in actuality) and Ten Hag finished 14 points behind in year ONE. This is the level of your point.
You're micro analysing - and evidently annoyed that Ten Hag won a cup with top 4 in his first season, and you're reduced with literally nothing to hang on to outside of moan about the opponents he faced. Again - have some shame.
They were shit all season - that is not form. Do you know what form is?
You can't recognize a good coach if SAF and Pep were 1 meter away from you it seems.
In a covid year, yeah. Ten Hag is already better than Ole mate, don't try and talk shite - he got 76 points in a season which is more than what Ole got in 3. And yet you still give absolute nonsense posts like this.
It wasn't miraculous, but no other manager post Fergie did it - that's a fact. You hate that and I am loving it
The main difference is Ole was never intended to be a long term manager, he was brought in as an interim option then given a contract based on a decent run - wrongly in my book, so his ice was always somewhat thinner than anyone else's.
A bad run under EtH is less likely to result in a sacking in season 2 because it seems the club have backed him for the long run.
A bad run under EtH is less likely to result in a sacking in season 2 because it seems the club have backed him for the long run.
Bring back Ole. At least he smiled in his press conferences.
Or a side that was having an off season and just needed new blood to start performing again. This is a terrible argument. Conte took Chelsea from 10th to 1st in a year not because he was a miracle worker but because this side already won the league one year ago and were just having a meltdown under Mourinho. They were champions and just needed new blood. Same for United last season. The team was top 4 quality but were just having an off season. They finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row.
When Ole was an interim coach he reached a CL QF and knocked out Chelsea and Arsenal back to back from the Fa Cup run. Next season he got KOed from both cups against Chelsea and City in the semi. "choke in cups" yet your savior haven't faced a team as half strong as these in his two glorious cup runs last season.
Ten Hag inherited a team who already managed to cut the gap to 12 points one year ago. It's his job to get it closer to the top not act like a miracle he finished top 4, 14 points away from the top.
"Annoyed"
I'm just not delusional, like you. Previous managers achieved the same results, finished in same position and won similar cups and more. Yet they're all considered a failure and the other is considered a god by his fans and people can't think of any better replacement. Ole, whose only experience in PL before getting the United was relegating Cardiff, basically a nothing coach, managed 3rd and 2nd league finish and a Europe League final. It's not as hard as Ten Hag fans are making it out to be. Any manager will achieve similar results because it's not a miracle for United. It's the bare minimum.
He was brought in to implement a clear style and identity and building the team to get closer to the top, not to win the League Cup.
I know. Look at Chelsea in Mourinho's meltdown season and how they recovered next year, as mentioned above. Look at Real Madrid under Benitez and how they recovered under Zidane..etc. Shit seasons happen.
I won't trust the opinion of someone who thinks Ten Hag is a good coach.
Great achievement.
It wasn't miraculous, but no other manager post Fergie did it - that's a fact. You hate that and I am loving it
That reminds me of the tired argument that Ole got top 4 twice in a row unlike any other manager post Ferguson. A pointless stat that no one is interested in bar such manager's defenders. Yeah, Ten Hag managed a top 4 and a domestic cup in his first year. Ole also is the only manager who managed top 4 twice in a row and Mourinho is the only manager who managed to win two trophies in his first season .. so ?
The net result is the previous 3 managers all managed top 4, all of them reached finals and two of them won trophies at similar level or even more prestigious than what Ten Hag won yet we're acting like he pulled something unprecedented in the post Fergie era.
Does he really though?
Ole took a Molde that had finished 11th the season before to their 1st and 2nd ever league titles back-to-back.
The two seasons before Ten Hag took over Ajax had finished 2nd twice at 82 (2015/16) and 81 (2016/17) points. His titles were won with 86, 88 and 83 respectively. That's almost coasting.
We are going in circles so Il cut it short.
You have a very limited view on how managers actually go through a root and branch rebuild and this is reflected in your insane evaluation from one year in charge.
You have had it in for the manager for a long time and dont respect him as a coach in spite of what he's achieved which is objectively seen as impressive by 99% of the footballing world.
And finally, you are reduced to guesstimating what will happen, borderline sounding like a hope, because you have no leg to stand on in your arguments.