Ole when sacked vs Ten Hag currently

[Di Maria's angel]

Nope, you have a different view to me, which is fine.

Ole was a better manager for our team, and it’s not the controversial or sensationalist take you are implying it to be given both managers have recorded similar league finishes.

Firstly, Ole had us scoring goals. Ten Hag has failed to do that. We went into games against big teams and gave them a proper game. We beat most of them. Ten Hag has failed to do this too.

Their scoring rates, if I'm not mistaken, are almost the same. We also beat Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Barcelona last year.

We won 3 times at Etihad in 2 years and the pitchforks were out because the fans didn't like the playing style in those games. But conceding 6 at Etihad and 7 at Anfield, that's for some reason totally acceptable for this fanbase. Never mind those grounds, even Emirates, WHL, SJP, London Stadium and Amex are automatic losses nowadays. But hey, at least we're playing "the right way" now.

We also lost to Huddersfield and Cardiff when they had been relegated. Embarrassed at Vicrage Road. Humilated at home by City, Liverpool and Spurs. Multiple losses to Wolves. Lost at home to a rubbish Burnley team.

 

[SydneyRoughDiamond]

Its a good job social media didnt exist in 1989....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_Manchester_United_F.C._season

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If Ole didn’t complete his third season because he wasn’t good enough then Ten Hag should be fired tomorrow, given we are barely out of September and lost what, 6 games already.

We’ve sacked managers who won trophies before (one just a few hours after winning one). That doesn’t tell the story.

Yeah but we haven’t. Because he has won something after Ole’s three / fourth year drought got us used to that feeling. We’ll see if and when he is but obviously he’s earned more trust than Mr trophies are for the ego.

 

[norm87cro]

Reasons for that are quite obvious.

Well I guess I just dont see the obvious reasons for backing here either

 

[Pronewbie]

With Ole and Mourinho everyone at the club knew they were part of the reason why we were going backwards (aside from the Glazers + clique).

 

[Andersonson]

A manager should be able to have a bad spell without it meaning the end.
Otherwise you are forever going to be changing managers.
EtH hasn't been here 18 months yet.

I agree. Ole should have been given more time. Glad to see more agree on giving managers time

 

[VP89]

Last season we got top 4 and won the least important trophy in England, so ?

It's hilarious how people are treating last season as some sort of unprecedented success of the post Fergie era. We got top 4 and won League cup. Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole all finished top 4. Mourinho got 2nd spot and Ole got 3rd and 2nd two season in a row, for God's sake. LVG won an Fa Cup which is far more prestigious than the glorious League Cup Ten Hag won and Mourinho won that same League Cup plus a Europe League trophy. Ole reached a Europe League final which Ten Hag failed to do, and lost on pens, while having a shit luck in other cup competitions draws unlike Ten Hag whose only top 4 team he faced in both his domestic cup runs last season came in the finals.

LVG, Mourinho and Ole were deemed a miserable failure at United. Ten Hag at the same time, achieved nothing more than them and yet considered good enough to be United' savior.

Ten Hag has done feck all more than our previous managers whom all got sacked and he's going to end the same way as them. People treating last season as some sort of a sign we're a title challengers in the making need to look at the whole 10 years and not just half a year under Ralf.

With 2nd season and 400m spent, United should have been closer to the top teams now than close to the bottom half starting season with 6 losses out of 10 games and with their hopes reduced to try and finish top 4 at best. Top 4 isn't gonna be a success or an achievement this season. It's the bare minimum for every manager not named "Erik Ten Hag".

You write so much tripe it's actually impressive.

The club wasting big money was a systemic issue that was the case prior to him. He lost a lot of players in Oles squad and replaced a few, and still operated with big holes in the team last season.

It's not an unprecedented success but it was more than what we expected from our manager. And you think he should be challenging for City or showing it now? Shame on you, you have zero patience and need a break.

 

[VP89]

Okay well remember that when Newcastle knock us out of the cup. We struggle to qualify for europa in the CL. We emulate chelsea last season in the league. And eth ends up sacked by the end of the season.

I bet you orgasmed at the thought of that.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Leicester 2-4
Liverpool 0-5
Spurs 3-0
City 0-2
Watford 1-4

That City game was the kicker for me. After they went 2 up they didn't even bother playing anymore, and we still couldn't do anything.

 

[el3mel]

You write so much tripe it's actually impressive.

The club wasting big money was a systemic issue that was the case prior to him. He lost a lot of players in Oles squad and replaced a few, and still operated with big holes in the team last season.

It's not an unprecedented success but it was more than what we expected from our manager. And you think he should be challenging for City or showing it now? Shame on you, you have zero patience and need a break.

I asked what signs he showed to believe he can make this team a title challenger and your pointed me to last season in which we did nothing more than we we have been doing under pervious managers who were deemed failure and sacked : finishing top 4 and winning a Mickey Mouse domestic cup, yet this is an enough sign to believe Ten Hag is gonna lead United to silverware.

And yeah, after 400m spent and 2 summer market he absolutely should be close to top 2 now.

You realize why? Because I have standards and expectations for United, while you and other Ten Hag supporters bind your expectations to suit the manager's level so that he comes out as a success no matter what.

 

[Samid]

Their scoring rates, if I'm not mistaken, are almost the same. We also beat Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Barcelona last year.



We also lost to Huddersfield and Cardiff when they had been relegated. Embarrassed at Vicrage Road. Humilated at home by City, Liverpool and Spurs. Multiple losses to Wolves. Lost at home to a rubbish Burnley team.

A bunch of results that you are either lying about (loss to Huddersfield never happened), happened before he had even made a single signing (Cardiff, Wolves) or results that deservedly got him the sack.

Nothing like this impressive CV in only 14 months.

United 1-2 Brighton
Brentford 4-0 United
United 0-1 Sociedad
City 6-3 United
Villa 3-1 United
Arsenal 3-2 United
Liverpool 7-0 United
Newcastle 2-0 United
Sevilla 3-0 United
Brighton 1-0 United
West Ham 1-0 United
City 2-1 United
Spurs 2-0 United
Arsenal 3-1 United
United 1-3 Brighton
Bayern 4-3 United
United 0-1 Palace
United 2-3 Galatasaray

450m spent only to get thoroughly embarrassed at home against 4th pot teams in the CL.

 

[Josep Dowling]

At any other big club Ten Hag would be sacked for the start he's had. Even Rangers have sacked their manager recently for a poor start.

Maybe we need to stop pandering to the manager's needs, start recruitment for the club and bring in a manager to coach the players. If we had a modern structure, sacking the manager wouldn't be seen as such a big issue as it is now. Instead we sign 4 ex players from Ajax and 2 more players that played in the Eredivisie whilst he managed Ajax. Had he got his way we would also have De Jong over Casemiro. It's not hard to see where the problems lie with this club. The whole structure is based on us finding the next Sir Alex Ferguson as manager. Football has moved on which is why so many clubs are better than us even with our vast wealth (and debt).

Ten Hag will be sacked, it's just a case of when they pull the trigger now. I can't see him turning the performances around as there hasn't been a decent performance in the Premier League or Champions League this season. I don't blame him necessarily as every manager is destined to fail with our set up. Nothing changes until the Glazers leave and we finally get a modern structure in place.

 

[VP89]

I asked what signs he showed to believe he can make this team a title challenger and your pointed me to last season in which we did nothing more than we we have been doing under pervious managers who were deemed failure and sacked : finishing top 4 and winning a Mickey Mouse domestic cup, yet this is an enough sign to believe Ten Hag is gonna lead United to silverware.

And yeah, after 400m spent and 2 summer market he absolutely should be close to top 2 now.

You realize why? Because I have standards and expectations for United, while you and other Ten Hag supporters bind your expectations to suit the manager's level so that he comes out as a success no matter what.

You asked for what signs he showed and I pointed to him bridging the gap from 35 to 14 points off city and ultimately finishing third, in his first season.

Arteta look like title challengers for the second year running and he finished 24 points off city in his second season.

So yeah, chill the feck out.

 

[RedSky]

VP likes to ignore posts that point out his posts are full of shit. This isn't a short term crisis, this has been brewing for months and months. We cannot score goals in the PL, we struggle to win away from home. We cannot beat organised teams and now our home form is gone.

There were clear signs of this last season. Our PL form after the Cup Final is a clear indication of that.

We've spent a load of cash in the Summer and it's actually made things worse not better.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

A bunch of results that you are either lying about (loss to Huddersfield never happened), happened before he had even made a single signing (Cardiff, Wolves) or results that deservedly got him the sack.

Nothing like this impressive CV in only 14 months.

United 1-2 Brighton
Brentford 4-0 United
United 0-1 Sociedad
City 6-3 United
Villa 3-1 United
Arsenal 3-2 United
Liverpool 7-0 United
Newcastle 2-0 United
Sevilla 3-0 United
Brighton 1-0 United
West Ham 1-0 United
City 2-1 United
Spurs 2-0 United
Arsenal 3-1 United
United 1-3 Brighton
Bayern 4-3 United
United 0-1 Palace
United 2-3 Galatasaray

450m spent only to get thoroughly embarrassed at home against 4th pot teams in the CL.

This was after Ole got the full time job:

Nothing like an impressive CV in only 5 months

Arsenal 2-0 United
Wolves 2-1 United
United 2-1 Watford
Wolves 2-1 United
United 0-1 Barcelona
United 2-1 West Ham
Barcelona 3-0 United
Everton 4-0 United
United 0-2 City
United 1-1 Chelsea
Huddersfield 1-1 United
United 0-2 Cardiff
United 4-0 Chelsea
Wolves 1-1 United
United 1-2 Palace
Soton 1-1 United
United 1-0 Leicester
United 1-0 Astana
West Ham 2-0 United
Rochdale 1-1 United
United 1-1 Arsenal
Alkmaar 0-0 United
Newcastle 1-0 United
United 1-1 Liverpool

Oh, and it doesn't get better. We lose to Bournemouth, the mighty Astana, Watford, Arsenal and Liverpool in the coming months.

 

[Gandalf]

Why is everyone such a doom monger? Did we get better when we sacked Ole? No. We got much worse.

So what I am hearing is you think it is time to bring back Ole.

 

[Withnail]

Both lost the dressing room

There's no evidence Ten Hag has lost the dressing room.

 

[devilish]

There's no evidence Ten Hag has lost the dressing room.

true but alot of the things we've seen throughout the last years of Ole/LVG/Mou admin is being witnessed now. That include leaks, players forgetting how to do the basics and players vanishing in the treatment room only to appear with their national team

 

[Samid]

This was after Ole got the full time job:

Nothing like an impressive CV in only 5 months

Arsenal 2-0 United
Wolves 2-1 United
United 2-1 Watford
Wolves 2-1 United
United 0-1 Barcelona
United 2-1 West Ham
Barcelona 3-0 United
Everton 4-0 United
United 0-2 City
United 1-1 Chelsea
Huddersfield 1-1 United
United 0-2 Cardiff
United 4-0 Chelsea
Wolves 1-1 United
United 1-2 Palace
Soton 1-1 United
United 1-0 Leicester
United 1-0 Astana
West Ham 2-0 United
Rochdale 1-1 United
United 1-1 Arsenal
Alkmaar 0-0 United
Newcastle 1-0 United
United 1-1 Liverpool

Oh, and it doesn't get better. We lose to Bournemouth, the mighty Astana, Watford, Arsenal and Liverpool in the coming months.

Most of those are from before he had spent a single penny. Whatever point you're trying to make is very petty and lousy.

 

[DJW]

At any other big club Ten Hag would be sacked for the start he's had. Even Rangers have sacked their manager recently for a poor start.

Maybe we need to stop pandering to the manager's needs, start recruitment for the club and bring in a manager to coach the players. If we had a modern structure, sacking the manager wouldn't be seen as such a big issue as it is now. Instead we sign 4 ex players from Ajax and 2 more players that played in the Eredivisie whilst he managed Ajax. Had he got his way we would also have De Jong over Casemiro. It's not hard to see where the problems lie with this club. The whole structure is based on us finding the next Sir Alex Ferguson as manager. Football has moved on which is why so many clubs are better than us even with our vast wealth (and debt).

Ten Hag will be sacked, it's just a case of when they pull the trigger now. I can't see him turning the performances around as there hasn't been a decent performance in the Premier League or Champions League this season. I don't blame him necessarily as every manager is destined to fail with our set up. Nothing changes until the Glazers leave and we finally get a modern structure in place.

Sadly very accurate…
Zidane time. Maybe the players might respond to a legend of the game ?!

 

[Massive Spanner]

typical Oleboii thread

 

[Judas]

Do people genuinely wish Ole was still at the wheel or just that Ten Hag was gone? I’m scared.

 

[RedSky]

Most of those are from before he had spent a single penny. Whatever point you're trying to make is very petty and lousy.

 

[Scandi Red]

Do people genuinely wish Ole was still at the wheel or just that Ten Hag was gone? I’m scared.

You would hope neither, but according to the other thread around 25% want Ten Hag out so...

 

[Red Star One]

Ole was quite out of his depth and never properly backed, unfortunately for him Glazers used him as a decoy to some extent. He should’ve been fired and in fact never should’ve gotten the full time contract in the first place.
ETH has been backed and has been given much more freedom, power and money than Ole. Even though, he’s being found out at this level and struggling to adapt from a poor Dutch league to a much more challenging Premier League environment.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Its a good job social media didnt exist in 1989....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_Manchester_United_F.C._season

Can we stop with this "managers + time = Fergie / Pep / Klopp" nonsense already? This argument has been rehashed over and over for ten years now.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Were we really? I remember us being utterly dreadful to the point it was probably the bleakest period I’ve had watching us. It was horrific stuff. We might have gone up the table a bit, but that probably had more to do with those around us.

Ragnick was the worst .

 

[RedSky]

Do people genuinely wish Ole was still at the wheel or just that Ten Hag was gone? I’m scared.

Oh hell no, I defended Ole up to the last month or so but it was clear he couldn't take us any further. But it's also very clear that we've completely fallen apart much sooner this time round and we play shite, dull, braindead and gutless football.

 

[roseguy64]

Well if only we had a manager that clearly stated that the club needs a complete revamp and an open heart surgery and if only we listened to the hard truth rather than going again with the model “give the manager full power and let him recruit whoever he wants, maybe he’ll become another Sir Alex”

The club did do a revamp. Lots of changes among the non-playing staff and with players happened over the time since Rangnick.

 

[Puskas_007]

I’m not sure that he’s lost the entire dressing room but I do think not being able to shift deadwood has resulted in a negativity and harmed the focus of the squad and general camaraderie which is devastating at this level.

Totally, yet another example of the upper management causing issues, they should've done whatever it took to get Maguire and anyone else out the door this summer for everyone's sakes... Rip the plaster off instead of slowly lifting it until you decide to put it back down and start again...

 

[el3mel]

You asked for what signs he showed and I pointed to him bridging the gap from 35 to 14 points off city and ultimately finishing third, in his first season.

Arteta look like title challengers for the second year running and he finished 24 points off city in his second season.

So yeah, chill the feck out.

The team he inherited finished 2nd 12 points away from City one season before it. They were just having an off year. The previous manager to him finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row. He didn't bridge shit.

 

[BobFromParva]

Pardon me for not jumping on the gloom wagon.
The way I see it is that TH did pretty much what Ole did last season - try to get the best tune possible out of a squad comprised of mismatched players at a club where the dressing room rules.
IMO TH has now progressed beyond that as he’s taken charge of an unwilling dressing room and is now imposing a modern style of football . .
The results on the pitch are only a small part of his achievements and you all seem to be focussing only on the scores while ignoring the larger and more difficult part of the task that’s underway.

No wonder you’re all so glum.

 

[VP89]

The team he inherited finished 2nd 12 points away from City one season before it. They were just having an off year. The previous manager to him finished 3rd and 2nd two seasons in a row. He didn't bridge shit.

He didn't take over then. He took over when they were in free fall and cut the gap in half.

You're factually wrong, you can't move the goalposts to your liking. In fact he got a bigger point tally than Ole ever did, that too in his first year. You couldn't be more wrong about your point if you tried.

You also didn't address the Arteta point.

 

[roseguy64]

Dominating a league miles below a quality of any top5 leagues in Europe shouldn’t get you such an ambitious job at United. He got it for that freak run in Champions League, which while impressive, still ended up with a bottle against Spurs.

he was never qualified for the job considering we gave him full power and full authority over transfers

He does not have full power or else we would have signed Kane

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Most of those are from before he had spent a single penny. Whatever point you're trying to make is very petty and lousy.

That he was a rubbish manager. I mean, you seem to have figured that one out for ETH but can't apply the same logic for Ole. This was after he spent money and it was hardly any better:

United 4-0 Chelsea
Wolves 1-1 United
United 1-2 Palace
Soton 1-1 United
United 1-0 Leicester
United 1-0 Astana
West Ham 2-0 United
Rochdale 1-1 United
United 1-1 Arsenal
Alkmaar 0-0 United
Newcastle 1-0 United
United 1-1 Liverpool

It's hardly petty, Samid. You very vocal in criticising the manager every week so I'm guessing most of your posts in recent months have been petty. Stop being hypocritical. Both Ole and now ETH seem like awful fits for our club.

 

[el3mel]

He didn't take over then. He took over when they were in free fall and cut the gap in half.

You're factually wrong, you can't move the goalposts to your liking. In fact he got a bigger point tally than Ole ever did, that too in his first year. You couldn't be more wrong about your point if you tried.

You also didn't address the Arteta point.

Yet Ole was closer to the top spot more than Ten Hag ever could, with 12 points away from City when we finished 2nd one season prior to his sacking. Wonder why we weren't patient enough with Ole then when we had a period of off form and considered him a failure, while we are considering Ten Hag a success for finishing 3rd.

The Arteta point is exhausted shit. It reminds me of the Ferguson example. Arsenal just have low standards and expectations that they allowed Arteta to stay after finishing 8th twice. Man United is a far bigger than Arsenal with higher standards and higher set of expectations.

 

[justsomebloke]

At the time of writing this I am not in favor of sacking Ten Hag, just to make that clear. I just want to jot down the numbers so that we have something concrete to compare the situation with. I will update this thread until we are past round 12 (when Ole got sacked).

Ten Hag currently (After 7 PL rounds):
- 9 points
- Goal difference: -4 (7/11)
- League position: 10
- Points behind top four: 7

Ole after 7 rounds:
- 14 points
- Goal difference: +8 (14/6)
- League position: 4

Ole at the time he got sacked (Round 12):
- 17 points
- Goal difference: -1 (20/21)
- League position: 8
- Points behind top four: 6

(Holy shit Ole's collapse was brutal)

------------

Ten Hag needs 8 points in the next 5 games to match Ole's collapse. We got Brentford, Sheffield United, City, Fulham and Luton next so he should be able to pull this off even with poor performances.

I can't deal with this shit. Things are bad enough without going out of our way to really dig into how much worse they could get yet.

We're a mid-table team. Every single thing in the PL for the whole of this season says we are - results, performance, goals scored, goals allowed, underlying stats, everything. There's not a single game that says otherwise. God knows why - we all know this squad should be better than that, but for some reason it isn't. Maybe they'll find their way, maybe things will get even worse. Little else to do than wait and see, and in the mean time try not to let it ruin life any more than it has to.

 

[Red Star One]

The club did do a revamp. Lots of changes among the non-playing staff and with players happened over the time since Rangnick.

I was referring to a much wider revolution hinted by Rangnick. It’s an unpopular opinion here as he was a shit caretaker, but in my eyes he’s the smartest United “manager” since Sir Alex and the one to correctly define the issues at the club

He does not have full power or else we would have signed Kane

The fact Kane went to Bayern doesn’t mean we didn’t try to land him. If he was the top priority for ETH and he was impossible to sign, due to the fee asked by Levy for a PL team or due to Harold’s preferences, it shows ETH got his priorities wrong.

 

[VP89]

Yet Ole was closer to the top spot more than Ten Hag ever could, with 12 points away from City when we finished 2nd one season prior to his sacking. Wonder why we weren't patient enough with Ole then when we had a period of off form and considered him a failure, while we are considering Ten Hag a success for finishing 3rd.

At least be consistent when trying to make a point. Ole in his debut year needed a win on the final day of the season to get top 4 and was more than 30 points from Liverpool. That too after he had half season with them prior to know his squad and instil his methods.

You do chat a lot of shite don't you trying to move posts AGAIN and using ten hags debut year as comparable to a manager who has had a year more time in the job. feck me.

The Arteta point is exhausted shit. It reminds me of the Ferguson example. Arsenal just have low standards and expectations that they allowed Arteta to stay after finishing 8th twice. Man United is a far bigger than Arsenal with higher standards and higher set of expectations.

It's not exhaustive shit. Arsenal's standards right now is to challenge for the title which started 3 years ago. That is not less than Man Utd project which started 1 year ago, and anyone thinking it would take less than 2 or 3 seasons to challenge properly is mentally lacking.

You're right about the league finishes, it's a good thing Ten Hag didn't get as bad as 8th so for the 100th time, chill the feck out with the ten hag hate.

 

[quadrant]

Can we stop with this "managers + time = Fergie / Pep / Klopp" nonsense already? This argument has been rehashed over and over for ten years now.

Its true that you can't take any old manager, give them 5+ years and they become a serial winner. On the other hand, its also true that any good manager needs time, I don't think anyone can turn an underperforming team into serial title contenders in a single season these days.

The problem is that's its really hard to tell the difference between a good manager on the way up and a limited manager already at his ceiling.