We've been outplayed in nearly every game this season including lower half sides. The idea we'll put a winning run together when we hit the "easy fixtures" is not one I'm buying into. Our team is Sunday league level every game, players have lost all faith in the manager, players sulking, negative energy and lack of confidence going into every game. He is not turning this around.
Ole Sack Watch
- Thread starter Raoul
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They already have, just from the top of my mind we got Pogba's and Bruno's statements and leaks from the squad about Bailly, VdB and Cristiano being uncomfortable with Ole. I dont think it will get as toxic as it was under Mourinho because Ole would never throw the players under the bus but I think it'll reach a point where the players will feel nothing but apathy and will see this season as a wasted one.
Specially if we get kicked from the UCL in group stage.
I don't know what more noise they could make. I've never seen this many stories of dressing room unrest before in my life (for any club), usually these sort of stories only come out after a manager is sacked but we're getting all the details while the manager is still there. And it's still not enough to get him the sack. It doesn't make sense on any level, how can our football advisers and board genuinely believe he can turn this around?
To me no way he survives anything other than a win against Watford.
Problem is that will will probably buy him another loss and a draw before he will be under pressure again.
Basically it's very hard to be fired.
We have a Ucl match a few days later, that will be the excuse if we lose. Then he would have to lose that to be sacked. There's always something the board will use an excuse because they're desperate for him to remain
Even if we beat Watford, I'd be surprised if we manage 3 points against Villareal, Chelsea, Arsenal and Crystal Palace.
He'll be gone within the next 5 games.
It is crazy the more I think about it that he’s still the manager and I genuinely say that with a neutral mind. The only explanation can be that they can’t agree on a replacement
The issue with sacking him after Watford is they've literally just missed the boat on a 2 week break which was the ideal time to bring in a new manager.
They'd be sacking him heading into 3 huge games potentially leaving us with no manager for some of them or a manager who has had 1 or 2 days training sessions. The complete lack of common sense from our board astounds me. I don't understand on any level how you can be a decision maker for a multi-billion pound business and be so complete and utterly brainless.
I know he’s a club legend as a player and all. But I can’t stop that video, someone posted in this thread of him taking training with Molde, playing in my mind. Where he’s walking around with an adopted sense of gravitas and saying roughly as I recall it ‘when you’re around the box…. SHOOT…. You’re never gonna score a goal if you don’t… SHOOT…. The aim of football…. Is to score goals…. You won’t score a goal… if you don’t… SHOOT!’.
it’s tormenting me imagining this level of sophisticated tactical know how being delivered at one of the biggest clubs in Europe. For the love of God please just fecking sack him…out of a sense of mercy for all involved. At least leak it that he’s definitely going. Have they no compassion?!
it’s tormenting me imagining this level of sophisticated tactical know how being delivered at one of the biggest clubs in Europe. For the love of God please just fecking sack him…out of a sense of mercy for all involved. At least leak it that he’s definitely going. Have they no compassion?!
We have the most crazy owners and board in the world. I can’t see us recovering without a firm change.
The out and out fact that they're desperate for him to remain as apposed to being desperate the right man for the job speaks volumes. We doubted their ambition before but this brings into stark reality.
I was always with the thinking that it's just the manager that needs to change and whilst the owners werent perfect they do back their managers (with our money I know)
Ole obviously needs to go but the fact they want a yes man means we're fecked long term as their motivations aren't conducive with long term footballing success. A point we all knew anyway.
He's not orchestrating anything. But if there's one member on the board who advocates vehemently against pulling the trigger, why would Woodward be the only "suspect"? What does Woodward stand to gain? He survived giving Mourinho a new contract unscathed, he's literally untouchable. Why wouldn't Ferguson help one of his boys during his darkest hour? There was an article the other day that still to this very day everybody goes to him for advice, from players, to coaches to the Glazers themselves. He has influence and some people, in and around United, may be using this influence to promote their agendas and turn United into a "Boys Club". The protection Solskajer's been getting in the media beggars belief. Surely that can't be all Woodward's doing.
Happens a fair bit when people are born into money / gifted a business they have no interest in. As is the case with the Glazers.
In turn they hire accountants and yes men to make decisions about things they don’t care about and bad decisions get made
I'd love to sit in on our board meetings to see how they've managed to arrive at their decisions.
To me, the questions someone has to be asking them is
1. With the players leaking to the media they think the manager in the clown, how on earth do you expect Ole to turn this round and have a successful season?
2. Is getting in a new manager who is only interim or not #1 choice genuinely a worse prospect than the garauntee of finishing outside the top 4 under Ole?
When you break it down into 2 simple questions, I do not know how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that he should stay. Arguments over who should take over are literally irrelevant when the alternative is a garaunteed mid-table finish under Ole. They could appoint Fred the Red as manager and it makes more logical sense than keeping a manager the players have downed tools for.
You was once ITK. What happened?
Was the outlet of information fed through a washing machine?
No offence.
I would absolutely love it if the Glazers only gave a shit about money. Unfortunately they love making their incompetent friends and friends of friends rich too. If they were completely selfish and only cared about their bottom pocket they would hire football brains to run the club well while making more money. Instead they want their dividends and to make sure other incompetent people are rich too. Seriously,. If the glazers just gave up on the nepotism we could have a perfectly well run club and they could be as greedy as they want.
If there is a clause in his contract we want to trigger, why would we need to agree a deal with Leicester?
I guess we will try and negotiate first and if not are prepared to just activate the clause.
I think we have those 5 games that will make the season salvageable, by salvageable I mean top 4. Realistically with Spurs, West Ham and Arsenals fixtures even if we only manage 1 point in those 3 league games any one of those teams are still catchable considering our next 10 fixtures after that. If we do persist with Ole after the Palace game however, we're fecked. It would be too little too late and we can kiss top 4 goodbye.
UCL I think we'll qualify to the round of 16 regardless. I'm more worried about our league form.
If we can get a new manager in, even if it isn't till the Palace game we should be alright for top 4 imo.
I don't disagree, but it seems one win gets him through a couple of bad games, and we'd have to be horrific to not do that in the run up to, and over Christmas.
So I'd be fairly sure that if he's still here past Palace then he's here for a good while yet.
Probably end up paying more than the clause like fellaini honestly
Very fair point and the scenario above are not implausible at all. I've heard similar stories/views from the industry where my father works. The ego of people who work in very high positions who achieved great success is nothing that should be underestimated, no matter how good of a character they seem to have in the public eye.
However, I do believe(just like you pointed out) Sir Alex wants to see the club being successful and winning trophies. I can imagine he'd love seeing Ronaldo winning the Premiership or the Champions League with United before he retires and I think he knows that Ole is not the man to help him achieve that. Can imagine Sir Alex being a bit conflicted if the what we've discussed is what's going on.
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Better than Ole but not nearly the best. Expand your damn search United. FFS
Yes the man that has been ruthlessly making hard decisions his whole life for Man Utd, is suddenly doing the opposite in retirement. Sorry, I dont wanna engage in conspiracy theories based on nothing
Yea probably also true. My overriding point was that before it was only heavily assumed they had other motivations for eg 'all they care about is top 4' now we know for a fact after, for eg them saying they're desperate for him to remain, now we know upfront and in a stark way that's how they think. And that's scary long term even after Ole.
It's like when we scouted 2383772727 right backs and picked Awb. I'll happily take Rodgers over ole but it's pretty underwhelming when Conte was free 2 weeks ago
Rogers would be massively underwhelming. He's an obvious upgrade on Ole in pretty much ever department, but I don't believe for a second he'd win us anything beyond a FA Cup or League Cup.
If he moulds our players into a cohesive unit and plays attractive football whilst winning trophies then he’s done his job and we can upgrade from there if necessary.
Remember Yahoo?
He's always had a sentimental side to him.
Gary Neville literally had to beg him to let him retire because he was costing us points and Fergie wanted him to continue. Giggs and Scholes were still starting regularly in our midfield at 40 years old when any other manager would have built the midfield around players in their prime who could actually run. Then there's appointing his brother and ex-players to various roles at the club over the years.
Frankly if he had anything to do with the Moyes appointment he should be nowhere near the club when it comes to football decisions. If he's compounded that by recommending Ole get the job, recommending we re-new his contract in the summer, and recommending we give him chance to turn it round this season, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the club as he's actively harming and disrespecting the fans at this point.
Daily star, really?
We should be looking at challenging for the CL and PL with our current squad plus a few more upgrades though. I don't honestly think Rogers has it in him to achieve either, but who knows really.
To go for Rodgers, when you can just wait it out with an interim and go for Ten Hag/Enrique, would be very underwhelming. We could have had Conte couple of weeks ago too. Just cant see a bottler like Rodgers competing with Pep, Conte, Klopp and Tuchel.
It would be a severance package. I believe we would still need to talk to Leicester as Rodger’s wouldn‘t.
Same! It really was confirmation of our worst fears about the tactical approach.
Why can’t we get Ten Hag?
If he improves the football and results whilst getting top 4 most seasons without winning trophies they wont feel the need to upgrade from there.
The reality is that strategy is very different from operational excellence. It’s perfectly feasible that Ole had a compelling long term strategy for the team but it’s irrelevant if you can’t achieve short term operational competency. In this case it’s a lack of tactical nouse.
One of the biggest problems in underperformance, in any organisation, is human capital not being sure what they are supposed to do. What exactly is required of them. This is perfectly applicable to football. The goals, objectives and roadmap can be sound but the execution is lacking. Players don’t know what they are doing on the field game to game on a micro level. That is important. That is why one separates long term strategic intent from short term exploitation.
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