Yeah who needs context. Not like klopp needed rebuild Liverpool.
Ole in? Some surprising stats that reveal another side to Solskjaer's management performance
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
Yeah who needs context. Not like klopp needed rebuild Liverpool.
Why would this happen? Ole's main defence is league position (basically what Mou used to fall back on i.e. poor football but he always gets results) if a new manager came in and was in a good position in 6months, people might have reservations about playing style but it would still be early enough to harbour hope for that to improve. Ole has been in charge for coming up to 3 years now (2 months away) but the same issues remain. The bolded makes no sense.
People on here just ignore context when they want, ignore the passage of time when they want and clog up the place with these kind of threads. If you want to try and prove Ole can be compared to Klopp (so far it's very obvious they took over different teams, spent differently and one had a clear upward trend versus the other) go for it but don't think people simply want to see a manager sacked for the sake of it when they disagree.
I think the board have set him up to fail with the squad that's been put together. Too many star players, not enough graft or ball retention to allow it to work without a really strong manager to force them into a unit.
On the other hand though, they did fill 2 of our 3 problem positions over the summer and yet somehow Sancho ends up playing on the bloody left wing. It's completely fecking ridiculous really, and it's these kinds of details combined with the fact that we've bottled numerous trophies at the semi and final stages now (plus when we were top of the league) that mean people have or are starting to give up on Ole. I do think there are also many complete spanners in our fanbase that don't rate him purely because he's not a star name, but I don't think that's true for the majority of fans at this point.
And I for one love the guy and wish him all the very best, but I'm just not seeing the ability to go one step further without an absolutely perfect set of circumstances that no manager at Man Utd could really expect.
On the other hand though, they did fill 2 of our 3 problem positions over the summer and yet somehow Sancho ends up playing on the bloody left wing. It's completely fecking ridiculous really, and it's these kinds of details combined with the fact that we've bottled numerous trophies at the semi and final stages now (plus when we were top of the league) that mean people have or are starting to give up on Ole. I do think there are also many complete spanners in our fanbase that don't rate him purely because he's not a star name, but I don't think that's true for the majority of fans at this point.
And I for one love the guy and wish him all the very best, but I'm just not seeing the ability to go one step further without an absolutely perfect set of circumstances that no manager at Man Utd could really expect.
He did, they both did. There's your context and why it should lend weight to the stat in the OP bud. I suppose you could add that Ole had two world class managers to compete with during his and far more pressure... but none of that matters, it's a number of games for each in the same competition and one has a better result than the other.
I'm sold. Give him a 10 year contract.
Point I'm making is, for last 2 years people have been using stats to show Ole done a good job especially in the league, and got told by folk who just never ever rated him the stats etc are pointless, comparisons are meaningless etc.........you bet if new manager comes in these folk be doing the same thing to show the new manager is progressing nicely. As I say feels like a vicious circle sometimes about this place.
Im not directly comparing klopp myself, clear Ole not on that level as he doesn't the trophies to argue any different.
You'll be happy to know what so we been have over the last 3 yearsEvery season better than the last, this one is no different at this stage.
And for that to continue this season it would mean either winning the league or one of the remaining cup competitions. Are you confident of that happening?
That's exactly it.
You could see that Liverpool were a couple of pieces away from being a very, very good team, and those positions where glaringly obvious too.
They sacrificed Coutinho, arguably their best player at the time, which gave them a huge windfall with which to land Virgil and Alisson, and the rest is history.
The stats might tell one story, but United don't look remotely close to where Liverpool where at that stage, although saying that, United's squad of players, does look exceptionally good., but they are just not being molded into a formidable team.
Which stats did people use that were dismissed?
When you look at the squad we should walk the FA Cup. Even the 2nd string should get to the final. I believe we will challenge in the league, and top four should be doable minimum. CL is more of a lottery but we expect to get out of the group and then it’s anybodies guess how far we can go. Top 4 and a trophy would represent a good season for me.
Its a fair comparison i think but there is a disparogy in the standard of football i think by this time in Klopps reign Liverpool were very much playing his gen gen press.
But the thing is, klopp took over a side that was already playing a high press game under Rodgers so the blueprint was already there for him he just had to tweak it. Ole took over a side that was built for sit back, counter attacking and physical direct football. Not playing out from the back, no pressing and a lack of technical players. Ole has had to completely change the mentality, the tactics, and the type of player that we sign and he's had to do all that while also keeping to the minimum target. So he couldn't just write a season off and implement a tactic that he didn't have the players to do. He has also had to deal with the covid season where there was no pre season and 2 games a week all season so it would be difficult to make big changes to tactics and coach a different philosophy.
This season is where we should be moving into the high press philosophy to dominate games but we are yet to see it, and that is a failure on Oles part, we look a bit muddled I think maybe he is trying to implement it but the players either won't or can't do it. For what it's worth he has got to make big decisions and get the players that can and will do it in the team and the players that won't/can't out of the team. Otherwise if the current form carries on much longer than its gonna cost him his job.
But the thing is, klopp took over a side that was already playing a high press game under Rodgers so the blueprint was already there for him he just had to tweak it. Ole took over a side that was built for sit back, counter attacking and physical direct football. Not playing out from the back, no pressing and a lack of technical players. Ole has had to completely change the mentality, the tactics, and the type of player that we sign and he's had to do all that while also keeping to the minimum target. So he couldn't just write a season off and implement a tactic that he didn't have the players to do. He has also had to deal with the covid season where there was no pre season and 2 games a week all season so it would be difficult to make big changes to tactics and coach a different philosophy.
This season is where we should be moving into the high press philosophy to dominate games but we are yet to see it, and that is a failure on Oles part, we look a bit muddled I think maybe he is trying to implement it but the players either won't or can't do it. For what it's worth he has got to make big decisions and get the players that can and will do it in the team and the players that won't/can't out of the team. Otherwise if the current form carries on much longer than its gonna cost him his job.
Loads about Ole win record against other United managers, other managers in the league, comparisons in league over a period of time from Bruno came in etc against other clubs and I think maybe only city had more points,.........been many many more can't remember them all but certainly the same folks in here now dismissing the Klopp comparisons as junk, they think all the rest are junk too. People where told they meant nothing he just not good enough, even if the league positions was reflective of massive improvement of what we been doing previously.
Again doesn't take away from the fact we aren't playing well at the moment and looks to be big issues at this present time. But any sort of comparison that dares reflect nicely on the manager is dismissed outright, been the case for last 2 years.
Fair and balanced view of it.
The stats are based on old info though. Klopp has progressed Liverpool, whereas United have stagnated under Ole. I cannot see them being level after another 100 games.
Wonder where he nicked it?
Probably from the bins at the back of a sports shop.
Ignoring that the 0.5% difference in win-rate is offset by Klopp's record there being worth more points in the league, fewer defeats and way more goals scored so likely a much better GD....who cares about 1 extra win in the face of that?Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
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Points after 162 matches.
Ole: 303 points
Klopp: 308 points
Cherry picking at its finest
Ole: 303 points
Klopp: 308 points
Cherry picking at its finest
Stats really are just stats, they are undeniable but people should and will add context everywhere (whether they are right or wrong is another matter!). Apart from those stats about since (random date in a season) to (another random date in a season) we have the best/worst record...those are worthless for me, it really is just season by season otherwise you can cherry pick anything to support any argument.
Re win rate, it is what it is...all of them have been average, Ole in the CL has been poor but hopefully that % increases tonight.
| PL | CL | |
| Ole | 52.3 | 41.6 |
| Mou | 53.7 | 57.4 |
| LVG | 51.3 | 50 |
| Moyes | 50 | 50 |
I agree though some people just won't agree with anything positive or vice versa, the camps are entrenched now. For me Ole has done good stuff off the field at a high level and, though it hasn't been good to watch for me outside of some sporadic big wins, final league position has been on track. I think the truth is he's just run out of time, any manager who has been backed as he has and has the players he has would have to deliver this season and when performances are this disjointed AND we aren't keeping pace with the league leaders, the caf goes a bit potty. If we don't put up a good fight/pick up some points in the next few PL games (Pool, Spurs, City) I think it's over and they'll line someone up to start after the Chelsea game so they have a nice 'easy' run of fixtures.
Thats it I’m convinced. Give the man a 6 year deal.
Now that’s funny.Scored fewer goals, spent more and generally played dross. Would be nice to have last two seasons and xG plus possession and shots. But Ole hasn't got anything compared to Klopp. We have lost 4 of the last 7 games for Christ sake.
Havent kept a clean sheet in 19 games
Its deeper than this. We saw nothing in offense either. We play 2 combative midfielders to try and compensate, one starts for Brazil. City managed with just Fernandinho along with 2 attacking midfielders. Milner and Hendo did the job for Liverpool. I doubt just signing someone will solve it as we lack cohesion and seem very individual. We also signed Donny etc so the committee did not see CM as necessary. I am sure we could have sold Fred, Jesse and Donny and fetched some cash so I don't know who is choosing what we need
Fernandinho is better defensively than our entire midfield put together. He was perhaps the best DM in the world for a period at City.
But I understand your point on midfield and that it should have been addressed, I've posted on this a lot and have been banging on about a DM for 2 years now. I think Ole wrongly placed faith in an emerging McTominay and the fact we still have Matic on the books, who by all accounts 'looks great in training' which is what we've heard time and again but Matic on the pitch cannot do the business anymore.
I posted in the summer that not signing a DM may cost Ole his job and looks that way.
Can't fault much what you saying. All opinions end of day.
As you say some are entrenched in extreme views, moderate views getting lost in the madness of the caf at the moment. Every thread is sort of discussing the same topic, even if it's not meant to be.
This would have been fine but by this point in Klopp's time at Liverpool, you could see the progression. We seem to be getting worse as the individuals improve.
Yeah you're right sadly, it's almost more fun to talk about other player and teams right now. At least Newcastle's takeover was a big distraction (even if there are loads of posts about Ole sneaking into that thread as well!)
It has ALWAYS been the midfield. Always. It has been blatantly obvious to me at least for years that we lacked there back to when we shoe horned in the likes of Fellaini and Schneiderlin and the over the hill Schweinstiger.
And i said many times here that that had to be the priority while folk salvated over Sancho and Ronaldo.
I don't think Ole is the man for the job and I do think it's just a matter of time. However, I do see a lot of people mentioning the Sancho at RW thing and how we signed him to be our RW and he's always on the left. Have you guys not seen the form Greenwood is in ? He's been by far our most dangerous attacking player this season. Why would you change that ? That's one thing I don't blame Ole for and in fact think he deserves a lot of credit for how he's treated Greenwood from the start.
Greenwood isn't a winger. He should be moved to CF or maybe play as a Econd striker around Cavani/Ronaldo. His strength would be better used there, Sancho can play RW in a different way but also influential and Rashford can keep LW.
Sancho on RW is not against Greenwood, it means feeling him for his strongest positions.
Because he still has the love of the players and hasn't done a bad job since he started. finshing 3rd, then 2nd and runners up in a European final. He has made progress every year.
If things spiral out of control, then yes. But we have to think with a level head and not react to bad form. We have to give him till the end of the season, then evaluate.
He changed that?
Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Has spent loads more and has a better squad. Don't even try and compare Ole to Klopp, it just makes you look silly.
Caftards DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC
We are certainly more progressive and press more than what we were under mourinho. I will admit though its doesn't exactly look particularly well organised or successful at the moment.
Doesn’t the stats show Klopp would have more points? One win less but more draws and fewer defeats! So it literally proves the Klopp was better even when it was closer.
Based on the stats United win the CL this year