Ole in? Some surprising stats that reveal another side to Solskjaer's management performance

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Furthermore. In the summer of 2015 Liverpool spent £136m on a bunch of players, but their net spend was massively offset by Suarez to Barcelona for £73.5m.. This was Klopp's first summer and net was - £46m.. So he also spent shit loads on delivering very little to show, given the time to complement his expenditure.

Had we as a club had the brains or balls to sell Pogba or Martial, our net spend would look alot better.. Its an age old habit we have to boost our marketing appeal and keep players too long instead of appreciating their economic values.

Smart business offsets high expenditures, not keeps hold of the players. How much could we have gotten back for Pogba and Martial, and maybe then Sancho + CDM would have been easier to buy than having to raise more money for the big transfers..

2015/2016 was £113m expenditure, offset by the £57m sale of Raheem Sterling to Citeh.. And he brought Benteke for almost £40m.

2016/17 was £71m spent (including Benteke for £28m)and made a positive contribution for the net spend to make a few £m profit..

Klopp didn't win a single thing until 2018/2919, and sales should have been imposed by the board instead of realising sunk assets of negligent players.

 

[SmallCaine]

Furthermore. In the summer of 2015 Liverpool spent £136m on a bunch of players, but their net spend was massively offset by Suarez to Barcelona for £73.5m.. This was Klopp's first summer and net was - £46m.. So he also spent shit loads on delivering very little to show, given the time to complement his expenditure.

Had we as a club had the brains or balls to sell Pogba or Martial, our net spend would look alot better.. Its an age old habit we have to boost our marketing appeal and keep players too long instead of appreciating their economic values.

Smart business offsets high expenditures, not keeps hold of the players. How much could we have gotten back for Pogba and Martial, and maybe then Sancho + CDM would have been easier to buy than having to raise more money for the big transfers..

2015/2016 was £113m expenditure, offset by the £57m sale of Raheem Sterling to Citeh.. And he brought Benteke for almost £40m.

2016/17 was £71m spent (including Benteke for £28m)and made a positive contribution for the net spend to make a few £m profit..

Klopp didn't win a single thing until 2018/2919, and sales should have been imposed by the board instead of realising sunk assets of negligent players.

I think you have stumbled into an alternate reality dude. In ours Klopp didn't join liverpool until October 2015, sterling was sold in July 2015 and Suarez a year before in 2014. If klopp somehow spent liverpool money while managing Dortmund he really is a special manager.

 

[passtheball]

Klopp out! He has not even won as many games as trophy-less Ole.

Reckon we could convince Liverpool fans that they need to get rid of their manager.

Seriously, remember when we used to laugh at Liverpool and City fans when they used to do their mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they were not that far behind United when United picked up all the trophies? Some of our fans are slowly turning into them.

 

[Bobcat]

It’s skewed by Klopp’s crap first season when he took over a dogshit side in what? 9th. That team just finished the previous season 8th on 60 points.

That part season he had just a 44% win rate. (52 games)
Full season 1: 57.4% (99 games)
Full season 2: 55.4% (155 games) + CL final
Full season 3: 71.7% (208 games) + CL winner and 97 league points

So judging by that we can expect 90+ points and a CL win this season

The numbers dont lie lads

Time to put the champagne on ice, we're lifting Big Ears in May

 

[MichaelRed]

Attack. Attack. Attack attack attack. That's our philosophy mate, you would do well to learn more about it.

We need a DM and a few players to trim the squad and we're going better.

And did you know that we have the 4th lowest tackles out of all the teams in Europe's top 5 leagues?. (as per Whoscored.com).. So what does that say to you about where our problem is?. Hint: it's a word beginning with M..

Manager?

 

[Bobcat]

I think you have stumbled into an alternate reality dude. In ours Klopp didn't join liverpool until October 2015, sterling was sold in July 2015 and Suarez a year before in 2014. If klopp somehow spent liverpool money while managing Dortmund he really is a special manager.

But the net spend for that year is still going to be affected by that, regardless of whether Klopp was involved in it or not

Generally i agree with him though. Liverpool were much, MUCH more proactive in the market than we have been, and were quick to move on players that Klopp deemed surplus to requirments

 

[devilish]

Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.

What are the stats regarding trophies won?

 

[Sky1981]

And we used to laugh at rawk with their pennant>>>ronaldo.

 

[Seij]

Can we compare this to SAF's first 162 games? I'm guessing we'll find out that Ole is actually better than SAF himself.

Let's keep up with this mental gymnastics. Anything to give our precious Ole a permanent job until whenever he wants to retire.

 

[led_scholes]

In the end of their third year, one reached the CL final, the other the EL. That's how different they are.

And the one who reached the EL final had spent half a billion to reach it.

 

[B. Munich]

Generally i agree with him though. Liverpool were much, MUCH more proactive in the market than we have been, and were quick to move on players that Klopp deemed surplus to requirments

Klopp has clear system how he wants to play. Thus it's much easier to identify the players that fit into his approach and who don't.

I don't see that system at United. Thus it's difficult to say which players really fit into the team. Your players represent a nice mixture of all systems. From counter attacking to possession football, from traditional English center backs to more ball playing defender.

In short United is missing a clear identity how they want to play football.
This also shows in the appointments of managers. Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and now Ole all have very different philosophies and style how they want to play football.

This missing identity holds you as much back as the obvious shortcomings of Ole.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Ole is better than Klopp. I knew it all along.

 

[Sky1981]

Ole is not holding well by his own. He had 500m besides him.

Cue : clearing toxic squad excuses.

 

[Hisha]

Finally… the much needed piece of information which proves that Ole is better than Klopp. Thank you @Ranchero

 

[passing-wind]

Said it in the other thread but Klopp was getting a lot of stick and calls for the sack as well, after signing VVD they transformed. Can we do that with a midfielder? I doubt it but we can try

I bet there's many a manager with a similar record but never went on to do anything of note, people might forget under Klopp they were bouncing around 8th even, it's just the form and stats you have when up and down the top half.

Liverpool sadly spent the Coutinho money wisely, we have spent our own large amounts of money many times over and come up with nothing.

The issue with Manchester United is not based on individual quality, it's based on all the aspects the coaches are supposed to influence such as the shape, patterns, organisation, defensive positioning etc.

 

[weizxx]

Please delete this thread before the Glazers see it!!

 

[tomaldinho1]

I’m amazed a clear wum thread has got to 5 pages

 

[pacifictheme]

Does not surprise me.

Doesn’t mean he’s better than Klopp by any measure and nobody has claimed that, ever. Just that he’s done a better job than many people give him credit for.

Like I said it doesn’t mean he’s better but I would have liked to have seen Carraghers face if this stat was trotted out last night on MNF.

As others have said let's talk about money spent. Ultimately when it comes to success moaning about money is pointless but if we are going to do this farcicle comparison let's include that too shall we.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Nope. If you’re explaining the PL to somebody who has no knowledge of football you’d show them the table to demonstrate City are better than Norwich, not tell them to go watch 76 games from last season and work it out for themselves. They wouldn’t know what was good bad or indifferent.
Watching football is subjective, and opinions are formed from personal experience. The facts and figures tell the story of what you are watching.

Watching football is indeed, ‘subjective’ but if you watch any of his contemporaries play & think United play better then the sport isn’t for you.

Who’s talking about someone with ‘no knowledge of football’, you’ve personalised the discussion all along but are now being subversive but let’s say we’re discussing with this someone with ‘no knowledge of football’, I’d show them highlights of Citeh, Chelsea & Pool as examples of ‘good teams’ long before I’d show them Ole’s United. I wouldn’t show them a league table that would be irrelevant, I could tell them Accrington Stanley are the best team in the world at that point, buzzard hill to try to die on.

Furthermore. In the summer of 2015 Liverpool spent £136m on a bunch of players, but their net spend was massively offset by Suarez to Barcelona for £73.5m.. This was Klopp's first summer and net was - £46m.. So he also spent shit loads on delivering very little to show, given the time to complement his expenditure.

Had we as a club had the brains or balls to sell Pogba or Martial, our net spend would look alot better.. Its an age old habit we have to boost our marketing appeal and keep players too long instead of appreciating their economic values.

Smart business offsets high expenditures, not keeps hold of the players. How much could we have gotten back for Pogba and Martial, and maybe then Sancho + CDM would have been easier to buy than having to raise more money for the big transfers..

2015/2016 was £113m expenditure, offset by the £57m sale of Raheem Sterling to Citeh.. And he brought Benteke for almost £40m.

2016/17 was £71m spent (including Benteke for £28m)and made a positive contribution for the net spend to make a few £m profit..

Klopp didn't win a single thing until 2018/2919, and sales should have been imposed by the board instead of realising sunk assets of negligent players.

We wouldn’t have sold Pogba or Martial without replacing them externally though. Say we did sell them when you suggest our recruitment strategy at that point would have likely seen us spend similar fees for their replacements. Smart business doesn’t buy players like Maguire for £80mil.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

I think you have stumbled into an alternate reality dude. In ours Klopp didn't join liverpool until October 2015, sterling was sold in July 2015 and Suarez a year before in 2014. If klopp somehow spent liverpool money while managing Dortmund he really is a special manager.

Benefited from the 140 Couthino sale and his

I think you have stumbled into an alternate reality dude. In ours Klopp didn't join liverpool until October 2015, sterling was sold in July 2015 and Suarez a year before in 2014. If klopp somehow spent liverpool money while managing Dortmund he really is a special manager.

The point being Liverpool has also had significant investment in the squad, just offset by big sales. And you had a better squad to work with than Ole when he first started.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The point being Liverpool has also had significant investment in the squad, just offset by big sales. And you had a better squad to work with than Ole when he first started.

. . .

 

[Rajma]

. . .

Close the thread.

 

[Bobcat]

Klopp has clear system how he wants to play. Thus it's much easier to identify the players that fit into his approach and who don't.

I don't see that system at United. Thus it's difficult to say which players really fit into the team. Your players represent a nice mixture of all systems. From counter attacking to possession football, from traditional English center backs to more ball playing defender.

In short United is missing a clear identity how they want to play football.
This also shows in the appointments of managers. Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and now Ole all have very different philosophies and style how they want to play football.

This missing identity holds you as much back as the obvious shortcomings of Ole.

While that is all true, even a lack of identity or clear overreaching plan does not mean you cant try to move on players who are clearly redundant.

Jones being the prime example. How many starts have he had under Ole? 1? 0? Even with a lack of style or identity i dont see a single scenario where Jones suddenly would become valuable to the team

 

[RUCK4444]

As others have said let's talk about money spent. Ultimately when it comes to success moaning about money is pointless but if we are going to do this farcicle comparison let's include that too shall we.

It’s not so farcical though is it, it’s a number of games from the beginning of their tenure and the results, the rest is ‘ifs and buts.’

The same ‘ifs and buts’ that are highlighted when it’s a positive thread on Ole and entirely ignored when it’s a negative one.

Like I said, it doesn’t mean Ole is a better Manager, Klopp imo is the best manager on earth, but Ole’s record over those number of games is better whilst needing to complete an entire rebuild (which is where all that money you highlighted went) and whilst spending money is generally a good thing for a manager the fact we needed to spend so much shows how unbalanced the team was for this period of games.

 

[Ixion]

Klopp did an amazing job at Dortmund and it was clear he was a special manager. He took over Liverpool in a low position compared to us finishing 2nd the season before Ole came in and in the equivalent time period comparing those points he spent much less than Ole. His record also then took off massively from this point where he will leave Ole in the dust. In these comparable seasons for Klopp he got them to back to back CL finals and won one, as well as finishing with 90+ points in the league, Ole is already well behind and Liverpool kicked on from this point and their stats will look embarrassing from here on to compare.

 

[hungrywing]

Does anybody remember the team Klopp inherited? I'm not saying we were brilliant, but our team was still levels above what he had to work with.

In fact,the more I think about it the more this comparison looks pretty bad for Ole.

Klopp equalled Ole's record, achueved using a team that finished second place the season before, with this team below as a starting point...

Close the thread.

That is definitely some prime /endthread material.

(Again, OP is almost certainly made in irony/trolling)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s skewed by Klopp’s crap first season when he took over a dogshit side in what? 9th. That team just finished the previous season 8th on 60 points.

That part season he had just a 44% win rate. (52 games)
Full season 1: 57.4% (99 games)
Full season 2: 55.4% (155 games) + CL final
Full season 3: 71.7% (208 games) + CL winner and 97 league points

So judging by that we can expect 90+ points and a CL win this season

Was about to post something similar but was too lazy to post actual stats. I’d like to see a comparison of first 81 vs second 81 of those 162 games. I’m sure you’d see solid evidence of progression under Klopp and very little under Ole (whose win rate in the first half of his reign was inflated by a spectacular post-Mourinho bounce)

 

[Ixion]

It reminds me of the argument that always gets wheeled out that Sir Alex needed 4 years to win a trophy so we should always give a manager that long and we'll be onto a winner ignoring his amazing record before he came to United and that United is a completely different beast at this point.

 

[wolvored]

On another glance we lost more and scored less, so still Ole out.

 

[Godfather]

. . .

Holy shit that's bad. Almost forgot in what state Pool was.

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

Ole’s signed Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho and went backwards. We aren’t genuinely challenging while he’s our manager.

This. Close thread.

 

[Jacob]

Net spend is only relevant from a financial perspective. Look at gross spend when comparing manager, that's ultimately what they should be evaluated against.

 

[Redfrog]

I was Ole inner for a long time but enough is enough.

I don’t need stats to see that there is no plan or way of playing. We are dire since a long time and only relly on individual brillance which indicates that the coaching staff is not good enough.

I don’t need stats to see we play sh*t. Arguments are nice and all but at the end of the day what my eyes are seeing is obvious. Trying to convince me that something will come good after 3 years of disjoncted football is like arguing about how dark the sky is when the sun is shining…

 

[wolvored]

Stats prove everything unless they indicate Ole is decent. Then stats are meaningless.

Why can’t some of you get behind the manager and the team you profess to support? it is genuinely bizarre the need for anger and negativity from some here.

Its all the stuff when you add it together that suddenly doesnt add up correctly. He has spent a fortune building a team that still looks woefully off the pace. He says having a crowd back will make a difference and it hasnt made one jot. He praises the 'excellent' coaches and they are not. Hes now living off the incompetancy of Deadwood Woodward who doesnt want to sack him so he hasnt got that on his hands as his final act. Hes now got his buddies, Neville now doubting him finally.
I support Utd, not a legend of a player who is useless as a manager at the top level.

 

[Stacks]

Does not surprise me.

Doesn’t mean he’s better than Klopp by any measure and nobody has claimed that, ever. Just that he’s done a better job than many people give him credit for.

Like I said it doesn’t mean he’s better but I would have liked to have seen Carraghers face if this stat was trotted out last night on MNF.

they did this ages ago and Neville acknowledged the huge coaching performance difference was down Klopps limited investment in comparison. No manager has had more to invest than Ole since he took over and has a team of nearly world stars. We should not be comparing ourselves to Liverpool. Should be more City. They also made the CL final whilst we may not get out of our group.

 

[wolvored]

I think you have stumbled into an alternate reality dude. In ours Klopp didn't join liverpool until October 2015, sterling was sold in July 2015 and Suarez a year before in 2014. If klopp somehow spent liverpool money while managing Dortmund he really is a special manager.

 

[Hansi Fick]

What more must Klopp do to not be compared to this guy?

 

[Stacks]

Said it in the other thread but Klopp was getting a lot of stick and calls for the sack as well, after signing VVD they transformed. Can we do that with a midfielder? I doubt it but we can try

I bet there's many a manager with a similar record but never went on to do anything of note, people might forget under Klopp they were bouncing around 8th even, it's just the form and stats you have when up and down the top half.

Liverpool sadly spent the Coutinho money wisely, we have spent our own large amounts of money many times over and come up with nothing.

We have had ample opportunity to sign a midfielder and opted for other positions including signing youngsters that don't even play. Klopp had tried to VVD the year before and failed as he knew he was a missing piece. We signed VDB and don't play him so clearly we have no idea what the "missing piece" is and seem to just be going with the flow.
they came 4th in his 1st full season

 

[stefan92]

What more must Klopp do to not be compared to this guy?

Obviously it does not matter what he does, on a United forum there will always be someone underestimating him

Classic case of "If he walks over water, people will say he can't even swim"

 

[Plant0x84]

Ole’s signed Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho and went backwards. We aren’t genuinely challenging while he’s our manager.

5-1 vs Leeds was our best performance so far this season . That was pre Ronaldo and pre Varane. Yes our performances have slipped, and we have had some disappointing results but you are making absolutely zero allowance for new players settling into the squad and the team learning to play together. Varane is learning a new league and style of play. Playing with CR7 up top is totally different to how we have been playing with inverted forwards and no central target man (martial always goes left).
Get Marcus back into form, get the new lads settled and our form will improve.