You’re contradicting yourself here. You just told someone to support Liverpool because they disagreed with you.
If you make statements, people will call you out. Simple. It’s not taking personally.
Ole in? Some surprising stats that reveal another side to Solskjaer's management performance
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
If you make statements, people will call you out. Simple. It’s not taking personally.
Your major differences are Liverpool during the transition were one of the best teams in Europe to watch along with Monaco and Tuchels Dortmund. You could see the progress and what they would become and I believe they dropped off badly later in the season due to sheer exhaustion and not being able to maintain the intensity they had started earlier in the season.
Nobody as such would be that worried about Ole and our position now if the performances over the last two seasons looked like they were heading somewhere. That is the problem, he had plenty of good will because of who he is and he still receives plenty of it but it’s getting really hard to turn a blind eye to the fact this team isn’t improving.
Nobody as such would be that worried about Ole and our position now if the performances over the last two seasons looked like they were heading somewhere. That is the problem, he had plenty of good will because of who he is and he still receives plenty of it but it’s getting really hard to turn a blind eye to the fact this team isn’t improving.
This thread isn’t about doing Klopp down, he is clearly a brilliant and charismatic coach. But the purpose of the comparison is to show Ole isn’t as bad as everybody thinks. Klopp is the poster boy for comparison purposes, and Ole compares favourably. That’s all this is.Obviously it does not matter what he does, on a United forum there will always be someone underestimating him
Classic case of "If he walks over water, people will say he can't even swim"
That was more to do with the board knowing the work being done behind the scenes and keeping the faith, was it not?
Probably more akin to what's going on at the moment. If what you're suggesting was true, Mourinho would probably be still here (or at least given longer).
Yeah I know, I've said what you've said many times for months and more and it was a rhetorical question for those wanting Ole to stay or assuming the club will back Ole. I've also gone on to explain I doubt that would work and laid out how these stats are misleading in the post you quoted.
Last edited:
This is actually a bad comparison for Ole. Klopp's first season and in particular the first months were very patchy in terms of results while Ole's first months were very successful. Just an example during the first 10 league games Liverpool won 4 games and had 3 lossess while United won 8 games and had 2 draws. The trajectories are opposite, one improved while the other regressed.
Last edited:
This suggests what we all know to be true...good feelings round the club, right characters and passion...will only get you so far. At some point...an actual style of play has to develop in order to win games consistently. Over the past 3 years we have scraped so many wins through a piece of brilliance or straight out luck...our performances have stayed consistently hit and miss and I would argue that a vast majority of the “hits” (minus Leeds games and the freak Southampton result) we’re playing counter attacking football.
It’s clear after 3 years that is Ole’s forte and I would ask any fan on here to name 3 games in the last 3 years in which we came up against a deep sitting side and actually played well for the majority of the game, creating chances and winning convincingly. I can’t do it.
Oles talk of progression is based on league position. While it’s a barometer- no one could honestly say it’s an accurate one for where we really are either at PL or CL level. He has reached his full potential imo.
While I don't disagree with your general point, it's important to debunk the idea that it's a question of style of play, it's not. It's about having the correct answers to occuring problems, Klopp changed his style, he changed his tactical approach, his Liverpool team doesn't play and isn't organized like his Dortmund team and he also tinkered his team depending on the characteristic of his players when he found the correct formula he stuck with it but he didn't actually impose his previous tactics to Liverpool players and he didn't stuck with things that didn't work.
I find this quite interesting. Ole used league position as his barometer for progress, will he use the same standards then if we finish 5th? Will he say he has regressed?
No, he will come out with a bunch of excuses like he always does. He keeps using unavailable players as an excuse, as if he doesn't have a big squad.
He has also forgotten that we enter in 4 competitions, he can't get out the CL groups, he cant win a trophy, he can't play good football.
This comparison is always good for a laugh.
Let's start with Ole's previous managerial history compared to Klopp. No real comparison there, Klopp achieved a lot more at a much higher level.
In Klopp's next 123 league games (after these stats), he won 283 points at an average of 2.30 per game, up from 1.88.
Liverpool went to the next level.
By contrast, Ole is actually improving his squad, but performances and now results are going backwards.
The joy of it all.
Let's start with Ole's previous managerial history compared to Klopp. No real comparison there, Klopp achieved a lot more at a much higher level.
In Klopp's next 123 league games (after these stats), he won 283 points at an average of 2.30 per game, up from 1.88.
Liverpool went to the next level.
By contrast, Ole is actually improving his squad, but performances and now results are going backwards.
The joy of it all.
World stars? What world stars has Ole signed excluding last summer? Maguire? AWB?
You can say Bruno but we had no competition for him so he was hardly nailed on to have the impact he’s had, and on that point what we are good at is pointing out how managers like Klopp have bedded players in and brought them on to another level, well that’s exactly what Ole did with Bruno.
Unless it’s another case of ‘Bruno bailed Ole out’ instead of giving the manager any credit for identifying the player and helping him hit the ground running and even go to another level like he has.
Yes Liverpool bought extremely well and had the best coach in the world to bed them in. That should make this stat more impressive, not less.
I’m literally trying not to defend Ole here but the double standards on things like these stats and spending etc irks me because it doesn’t bode well for the next manager either.
Points per game in the PL
2018-19 1.9
2019-20 1.74
2020-21 1.95
2021-22 1.75
Win % in all comps
2018-19 55.2
2019-20 54.1
2020-21 57.4
2021-22 45.5
Goals per game in all comps
2018-19 1.6
2019-20 1.8
2020-21 2.0
2021-22 1.7
Goals conceded per game in all comps
2018-19 1.2
2019-20 0.8
2020-21 1.1
2021-22 1.3
Semi Finals Won 1/5
Finals Won 0/1
Trophies Won 0
Clearly there is no progression this season. We have gone backwards in all areas. The end to last season and beginning to this is pretty bad actually when you look at it like that. People are now moving the goalposts and saying if Ole gets top 4 it will be a success. With the outlay and players at his disposal he must challenge this year for the league and champions league.
2018-19 1.9
2019-20 1.74
2020-21 1.95
2021-22 1.75
Win % in all comps
2018-19 55.2
2019-20 54.1
2020-21 57.4
2021-22 45.5
Goals per game in all comps
2018-19 1.6
2019-20 1.8
2020-21 2.0
2021-22 1.7
Goals conceded per game in all comps
2018-19 1.2
2019-20 0.8
2020-21 1.1
2021-22 1.3
Semi Finals Won 1/5
Finals Won 0/1
Trophies Won 0
Clearly there is no progression this season. We have gone backwards in all areas. The end to last season and beginning to this is pretty bad actually when you look at it like that. People are now moving the goalposts and saying if Ole gets top 4 it will be a success. With the outlay and players at his disposal he must challenge this year for the league and champions league.
Completely agree...that is what I was getting at.
When we have the ball around the opponents box we seem to move it so slowly and look for that one incisive pass to allow one of the big guns to get a shot off. By style of play I meant a more co-ordinated and consistent way of attacking and finding ways to score. Ole seems to leave this up to the individuals to figure out as opposed to any well drilled alternatives.
Ole > Klep (Klopp & Pep love child)
You say this is an almost sardonic manner, but I have genuinely fallen asleep watching us so many times. I was sock on in the second half against Everton. I can’t keep watching us go to the wing, then full back, then slow down, then shit pass, then players stop still, then lose the ball and hope for a fast counter next time.
There once was a story of Ole and Klopp
Where Klopp was the maestro
And Ole was plop
As the season wore on it was turned on its head
With Ole at the wheel
And the duo McFred
Only joking!
Where Klopp was the maestro
And Ole was plop
As the season wore on it was turned on its head
With Ole at the wheel
And the duo McFred
Only joking!
Klopp had worst players (in that era) than us so hardly surprising?
He inherited a much worse team - and had less money than us to improve it too.
He inherited a much worse team - and had less money than us to improve it too.
Is this the Rinus Michels that many consider to be better than even Fergie?
Games 81-162
Klopp – 48 wins, 14 losses, 19 draws (59.2%)
Ole – 43 wins, 19 losses, 18 draws (53%)
Now, let’s also remember that by this stage (162 games) Klopp had a run to the Champions League final, he wasn't getting free wins in the Europa League versus FC Copenhagen, Linz, Granada.
Klopp’s win percentage starting from his third full season (game 156) was on a vertical trajectory, with games 155-162 having a 100% win rate, compared to Ole’s 28.5% win rate for games 155-162.
Klopp would end that season with a 71.7% win rate in all competitions from 53 games, a 97 points Premier League season and Champions of Europe. Ole's currently on a 45.5% win rate for his 3rd full season in all competitions.
"Stats innit"
Last edited:
Exactly that one. Just shows how useless these stats are when comparing very different eras. Fergie himself would not win titles with the point totals he got during his title wins, as City and Liverpool raised the bar even more.
This is not meant as a dig on SAF, I absolutely think prime SAF could raise United's level up to that if he was managing today,it is just the evolution and growing gap between absolute top teams and the rest.
A better statistic would be a graph of how the average PPG progressed over the 162 games or a moving average. I seriously wish someone could plot that graph.
I am not totally sure (because it hasn't been done) but I could bet Klopp's chart has an upward curve while Ole's is up and down. That would be a much better use of numbers.
I am not totally sure (because it hasn't been done) but I could bet Klopp's chart has an upward curve while Ole's is up and down. That would be a much better use of numbers.
No philosophy how the club wants to play definitely makes buying players harder. I think also selling is affected as there aren't players who can thrive in system. At United rather individual brilliance and form are important. As these aren't that consistent you always have purple patches where different players outperform like Martial, Bailly, Fred, Pogba or even Lindgard. But these purple patches are rather short lived and followed by longer patches where the same players underperform. However, the purple patches are remembered and people think these players will eventually perform more consistently. So the club hesitates to sell these players. Unfortunately, this won't happen without a clear playing philosophy and system.
Many here believe you are one CB away then one more RB away and now one more DM away. I believe Manchester United has no system and long-term strategy, which is the real problem not the players.
Kovac tried to change the philosophy and system at Munich and failed miserably. Lots of player underperformed. He blamed it on the players famously saying if you have a VW Golf you can't compete with a Porsche.
Then came Flick who reverted this system and the rest is history....
Last edited:
I'm more referring to this season. We are expected to kick on with the current players we have not go backwards.
Why bother though. Something tells me that people actually entertaining this kind of comparison are not meaning to be convinced.
I'm convinced. Petition to fly this banner over Old Trafford for the Pool game. Gotta show those Ole haters who the real OG is.
Pretty much. They're just looking for an obscure stat that puts Ole in the same ballpark as superior managers and then use it as a reason to say "support the manager, if you don't then you're not a real fan".
Conveniently ignoring every single other stat that shows he is well short of the man United need him to be. Any single usable stat outweighs everything else when you're dogmatic.
Absolutely correct and this philosophy with a clear system is missing. Manchester City, Liverpool, Barcelona, and Bayern all have a philosophy longer-term.
To Ole defense i don't think it's the manager's task to choose and implement the best philosophy for the club but it's the board's responsibility. Simply because the philosophy has to remain even a manager is fired.
Arsenal and Manchester United have this responsibility to their long-term managers for that's why they struggle so much once SAF and Wenger left.
Actually United reminds of Real Madrid between 2002 and 2010 with their galictico approach, which failed miserably despite featuring a team packed with world class talents
If there is a CafGoesIntoMeltdown thread anywhere, this will be gold.. 
The simple difference between them is that Klopp actually won something while Ole won jack shit and invested a lot more. This should be the end of the discussion.
I know that the initial post was sarcasm, but the comparison is 100% pointless.
I know that the initial post was sarcasm, but the comparison is 100% pointless.
Ronaldo knows this league and is a generational talent, Varane is world class and Sancho has had a bit role so far. Our style of play is exactly how we played last year so im not sure what adjusting players have had to do. Shaw looks a shadow of last year, Bruno needs a rest already, was massively overplayed last season, Ole still dont rotate his squad.
I get your point, I like your positivity, but times uo for Ole, sooner we take the hit, the sooner we can rebuild our season. This is year 3, he spent 450m plus so far, we are playing like mercenaries still. Excuses no longer hold any substance, in my opinion, that is all we have been giving him for years.
I'm not going to bother spending time in this thread. But the point is that it compares someone to someone the Caf gives imaginary passionate blowies to every time Mo Salah totally doesnt do individual brilliance.
Please don't take it as a defense of Ole, just as a reminder that comparing someone to someone else is a fun activity and sometimes helpful to get your head out of that cesspool of complaints its currenlty in.
But obviously Klopp is a manager with a significantly better pedigree, no one has ever argued that.
You'll be happy to know what so we been have over the last 3 years
Every season better than the last, this one is no different at this stage.Also the league position was under unusual circumstances. No crowds will have affected some teams. This affected some teams badly, others it was a bonus, the pressure was off them. Don't think the Varane signing was a problem, but adding Ronaldo could become a big problem, especially as he now has Cavani as well.Sancho is notorious for slow starts to the season. I also think he need freedom, which Ole isn't giving him. Klopp built his team to fit his system. We just sign who they think will make the fans happy, even though it is making us completely dysfunctional.
Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Can we also see how much money each manager had spent by that 89nth game?
The funny thing about right now is the folk who all want rid of Ole ASAP, will literally be saying the same points people are saying about Ole right now, to defend the new manager in 6 months time..........and the vicious circle will keeping going round and round.
Until we actually have a proper plan in place, I'm not sure sacking right now is a wise option if it's just to bring in anyone.
Let's see how the next month pans out, and we access it from there.
Until we actually have a proper plan in place, I'm not sure sacking right now is a wise option if it's just to bring in anyone.
Let's see how the next month pans out, and we access it from there.
We are indeed but we are to a large extent trying to force 3 players into our starting 11 with next to no bedding in time, one of which provides zero energy, this is highlighting the issues in midfield as we've nothing to hold it all together and are so weak through the middle.
"Red Cafe experts HATE him, stat number 6 will SHOCK you..."
Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Higher Loss rate as well.
#oleout