We'll now get to see if he has one of Fergie's best characteristics, the ability to hit back next time out.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Because flexible is a way you would describe recent PL champions: Chelsea, Leicester, Chelsea, Man City.
I’m not saying it’s good or bad yet. I thought my post made it pretty clear that there are some things that make it tough to evaluate.
This.
Don't think we'll have to worry on that score.
There we go, we’ve lost a game and people are out in force claiming there are “question marks” over OGS
I think everyone on this forum needs to read “Fooled by Randomness”
There is a large element of randomness in football results. People seem to think its this meticulously tactical and logical game of chess where a manager shuffles XI players around a board but it couldn’t be further from the truth
If Lukaku scores that sitter at 0-0 we win this comfortably. If De Gea stands up and falls on a tame effort we win this comfortably
If Lukaku had scored either of his other two big chances we probably go on to win
If Moss doesn’t give an awful penalty we probably draw at least
All of this after-the-fact analysis is absolute nonsense. Football matches compromise human beings taking hundreds of thousands of individual tiny actions with one step either way or one thought reaching the brain a fraction of a second quicker than another completely changing the outcome. Kind of like the butterfly effect.
The “fools” go back over games and retrospectively assign huge meaning to acts that came about as a result of randomness.
I think everyone on this forum needs to read “Fooled by Randomness”
There is a large element of randomness in football results. People seem to think its this meticulously tactical and logical game of chess where a manager shuffles XI players around a board but it couldn’t be further from the truth
If Lukaku scores that sitter at 0-0 we win this comfortably. If De Gea stands up and falls on a tame effort we win this comfortably
If Lukaku had scored either of his other two big chances we probably go on to win
If Moss doesn’t give an awful penalty we probably draw at least
All of this after-the-fact analysis is absolute nonsense. Football matches compromise human beings taking hundreds of thousands of individual tiny actions with one step either way or one thought reaching the brain a fraction of a second quicker than another completely changing the outcome. Kind of like the butterfly effect.
The “fools” go back over games and retrospectively assign huge meaning to acts that came about as a result of randomness.
Brilliant. Thanks.
Ole changed to 3-5-2 and United got better and only woodwork, a wrong decision from the ref and some bad executions in front of goal stood in the way of a win imo. But hey, keep playing the blame game 
Getting kind of comical now haha. He's going to be the manager. Get fecking used to it. Now let's kick Wolves out of the FA.
Getting kind of comical now haha. He's going to be the manager. Get fecking used to it. Now let's kick Wolves out of the FA.
Flexible in the sense you don't play always the same and change your formation based on the circumstances. Not too much of course but..
Even in the most random of systems patterns emerge. There are question marks above OGS not because of this game, but because of the patterns within the previous games under him and because of what we know about the demands of managing this club.
It can be asked why would he put us in a formation we’ve not played in years, away to PSG. It was a shocker to start and credit to him he changed it. And it can also be asked why he chose that same formation away to the team we are battling for 4th. Is it part of a plan or is it showing some naivety?
Is it unfair to ask these questions, Ban?
This sums it up really. Every fan thinks himself some tactical god and needs to point out mistakes by the manager as if any human being can get it right 100% of the time. It really does me in seeing people go on and on about this formation and that formation, that player that should not have played and the one that did. Football is a game of tiny margins. If it goes your way even when you are not the best on the pitch (Utd against PSG) then it's your day then there are days it just isn't going to work out.
Anyone notice today that he was talking to McKenna in the firtst half and soon after we changed formation. Is McKenna the tactical brain?
Didn't we already do so after 0-2 vs PSG? Oles the man- he'll make sure we respond with victory.
The problem against PSG was Bailly playing as a RB. That's what he changed.
We played good enough to have won the game. Can't really complain with Ole. Maybe would have done the Martial sub earlier although he didn't really do well. Pogba on the wing early on was maybe not the best idea either. They did cause most problems down our right hand side though.
And Pereira tucked in. And Rashford came out a little wider left.
No, ForestRGoinUp, it isn't unfair.
Only thing he changed vs PSG was Dalot for Bailly. Also formations are not strict, they can be changer throughout the game. Ole himself said he changes little tweaks during the game and one formation can easily be another in a glimpse. And I'm sure he isn't throwing formations out of the hat and there's an idea behind it.
I think his man management and also tactical abilitity to read games and change things is very good. He has shown those skills already. How to build and develop a squad over time remains to be seen. Can he teach these players things that improve them/us and also can he buy the right players needed for us to improve? The last part is very hard to tell and so would be a gamble right now.
What patterns?
Agreed. We did enough to score at least a couple. I feel disappointed because we deserved the win, not because we set out not to score and not concede. It’s actually a refreshing change of pace.
have a look at twitter at the utter wank stains that have turned on him already
In general: Quantum Interference Patterns, Random Variables, Superposition Waveform, Prime Number Distribution.
In football: The higher level phenomenon that allow us to discuss aspects of the game. Example: player/team 1 is better then player/team 2.
Yeah you haven't explained what patterns you're talking about though.
This.
Agreed. The number of chances we created today would have led to 3 or 4 goals on another day. It just wasn't meant to be.
As an aside, is the match day thread always so negative? For a team and manager who has been doing so well I thought it was well over the top.
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Tactically we were too cautious in midfield to start. But it's an away game against the top 6, you obviously won't go all guns blazing.
One thing that annoys me about him is his late subs. It can take up to 10-15 minutes to actually get up to speed, get your first touch/pass right, confidence and body ready. I see no point making a sub after the 75th minute myself.
As for the loss, it's not on Olé. Arsenal's both goals were lucky and we had a mare in front of goal mixed with a very good keeper performance.
One thing that annoys me about him is his late subs. It can take up to 10-15 minutes to actually get up to speed, get your first touch/pass right, confidence and body ready. I see no point making a sub after the 75th minute myself.
As for the loss, it's not on Olé. Arsenal's both goals were lucky and we had a mare in front of goal mixed with a very good keeper performance.
If this argument were correct, it would essentially imply who the manager is has no effect on whether a team wins or not.
Were you saying the same on Wednesday or when we beat Arsenal in the FA Cup? Because if you're going to give Ole credit for those wins, we also need to consider the possibility his decisions might have an effect when we lose too.
He made a mistake today IMO, but that’s okay.
What was his mistake? De Gea misjudging a nothing shot from 30 yards out? Lukaku and Rashford missing multiple sitters? The ref giving a pen for nothing? What the reality is is that when you play against other top teams, you will lose on occasion. Playing away to other top teams, you are usually happy with a draw and you are never the favourite. When you go on long runs, you will occasionally drop points and you won't have that bit of luck that you need. That's what the reality is for today. He didn't make a mistake really, because the performance was still a good performance for the most part, and it was individual moments that coaching doesn't impact that made the difference today. On another day, Lukaku scores 3. Obviously if we had scored, who knows how the game would have gone from that point on. Arsenal took their chances and were resilient at the other end so got the win.
Basically... teams can win and lose without it being the coaches fault or some big mistake that you have to criticize the coach for. It's when it starts becoming a pattern is when it becomes an issue.
Does every game have to be micro analysed?
We would have won on another day. A large part of football is luck, believe it or not.
Move on.
We would have won on another day. A large part of football is luck, believe it or not.
Move on.
Shit day at the office. Wasn't like a Jose defeat though where we didn't register a fecking shit on target. We were unlucky.
You can criticise the players but not the coach? I just think United are a better team than Arsenal right now, and despite De Gea making a wildly uncharacteristic mistake I thought we should have controlled the game better but we allowed them to get into the game more than we should have.
Main one for me was the change in setup. It made Pogba peripheral and allowed Xaka and Ramsey to get more joy than they had in the last game.
Criticising the manager doesn’t mean we want him out, he’s the man for the job - but this game wasn’t his best.
Dressing room must a been in tatters.
I feel Ole rushed Matic into the lineup that has been playing well without him. In hindsight, McTominay should have started.
I don't want his children.
Want him sacked. Bite bite
Want him sacked. Bite bite
City under pep are very flexible tactically. I'd argue Conte was too for Chelsea.
Anyone putting the blame on Ole's tactics for that need to realise that the sport of football isn't for them. Arsenal were shit, and there for the taking but our finishing let us down and we were equally as poor as them in general play.
The gameplan was spot on; the execution of it, wasn't.
The gameplan was spot on; the execution of it, wasn't.
We still most likely will be on top 4, and a defeat was eventually going to happen. We were unlucky today same as we were lucky in a few matches including Wednesday. Nothing to get worried about.
Twitter is a cesspool of idiocy.
Very true. Also, when you factor in randomness (as @Lentwood eloquently articulates in his post) looking at a 1-off match really isn't instructive.
We had a European hangover, Arsenal were gifted a goal and dove to get a penalty, and our finishing was poor.
There isn't much else to say other than that we probably would have won that match 9 times out of 10.
I think we've got a good shot at it, but right now I wouldn't have us as favourites.
Arsenal and Chelsea have very favourable run-ins, and both are likely to be above us once we've all played 30 games. Spurs could be in free-fall, but they've got the quality to stop it. Top 4 is on, but it's going to be really tough.
Well, at least the xG showed Utd played the best game Too bad it doesn't count for much...being the morale winner...but it was exciting at least, and not scoring a single goal was a miracle for Arsenal this time. Utd don't have a freepass for miracles after all
Too bad it doesn't count for much...being the morale winner...but it was exciting at least, and not scoring a single goal was a miracle for Arsenal this time. Utd don't have a freepass for miracles after all