We can’t have it all can we!
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Managerial Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Let’s agree about disagree.
Looking back, it is easy to say that our expectations for United have been far too high and that the team has been far from competitive. With that in mind, I think Ole delivered well.
It is now only becoming clearer and clearer. With the squad we had for periods, I would almost say that it was a miracle that we managed second place in the premier league. In retrospect can
you could almost say that we overachieved.
Just comparing us to City or talking about City in this context just shows how air-landed we were at the time.
Stop it mate, I can't handle that
I mean, sure, agree to disagree. But the conclusion in the bolded is soulcrushing to me. The criticism towards Ole back then was never that he didn't compete or that he wouldn't be able to deliver a trophy here and there. The criticism was about not being able to make the next step in evolving the team. We wasted time going down this route of english talent, comfy nicknames and questionable attitude while at the same time watching our rivals evolve to modern principles for playing the game. All while we were stuck in early 2000s mindset of "bring in the right players and they'll figure it out".
Ole isn't the right manager, because he hasn't won enough - he wasn't able to go with the times. Sticking to him meant that we wasted two more years down the road... And thats not even a stick to beat him, just an observation. A team that has different challenges at the moment might be able to have success with him but we arent.
Stop it mate, I can't handle that
I mean, sure, agree to disagree. But the conclusion in the bolded is soulcrushing to me. The criticism towards Ole back then was never that he didn't compete or that he wouldn't be able to deliver a trophy here and there. The criticism was about not being able to make the next step in evolving the team. We wasted time going down this route of english talent, comfy nicknames and questionable attitude while at the same time watching our rivals evolve to modern principles for playing the game. All while we were stuck in early 2000s mindset of "bring in the right players and they'll figure it out".
Ole isn't the right manager, because he hasn't won enough - he wasn't able to go with the times. Sticking to him meant that we wasted two more years down the road... And thats not even a stick to beat him, just an observation. A team that has different challenges at the moment might be able to have success with him but we arent.
But many would also argue that solely blaming Ole for failing to take the next step in developing the team may have been a little unfair when the entire footballing structure was well below par. Even now, we are not even sure of just how good the current structure is going to be but nobody can deny that having a more established footballing structure can be beneficial to the manager.
Ole's weaknesses were obvious but time has shown us is that he had pretty capable assistants in Carrick and McKenna. Maybe. Better structure would have been able to mitigate his weaknesses and limit his tendencies while providing him and his team a proper "game model" to develop. Would it lead to certain success, we will never know but my point is, the blame Ole received and even the "PE teacher" memes were very unfair. No mediocre manager finishes top 4 back to back in the premier even if he was managing Manchester City.
His weakness is obvious? What’s that weakness? Seriously, when we all have watched the team played dreadful football for so long under ETH. Please tell me what’s that weakness.
I don't want to bring ETH into this discussion. I'm tired of expressing my hatred for his style and how much I can't wait for it to end.
Under Ole we were one of the best counter attacking teams in the world but except for periods where we had Pogba and Bruno fit and firing at the same time with Herrera and/or Matic providing support we struggled to break down deep packed defenses. This was blamed on Ole's inability to implement a coherent Possession based style of play. Also his recruitment record was not really good (which to be fair to him like I said in the my previous post is not solely his fault).
Attacking low block is always the hardest task and it’s the main issue to overcome to become real challenger to the league title. But, Ole’s inability to bring us a level higher to challenge the league, in my opinion, it’s exactly what you stated last, poor recruitment. With the right upper structure in football operations, it should not be considered his weakness anymore, right?
I think you lot need to watch a replay of the Europa final against Villarreal before pining for Ole anymore.
Yes.I want to also add that another problem he had was that he gave his players too much credit and didn't have that mean streak that the top coaches have.
Some days past I made the point that Ole's weaknesses were weaknesses that a proper footballing structure could mitigate. Yes he isn't a master tactician like Pep or Klopp but the sign of a good manager in my view is that thier team atleast plays at their level. Under Ole the team he had performed at the level expected of him until that third season atleast. Many argue that signing Ronaldo derailed whatever plan Ole had and ultimately it cost him his job but the truth is that it was going to happen anyways. There was already pressure on him to play a more expansive style which let's be honest, this squad at the time was nowhere close to being able to do (our midfield was McFred and Bruno!).
I was sad when Ole left because Football under Ole was the most exciting post SAF and his whole good vibes personality was badly needed as an antidote to the constant negative press that always follows this club. It's also sad that even if he were to come back as interim now, there is this sneaking feeling everyone has that he could just work wonders with this squad but he would never get the permanent gig again because of past history.
I think you should rewatch champions league final how Bayern dominated the game and how easy for them to cancel every effort we tried after Basler scored the free kick. It will help you understand why cup game is different. It’s common sense.
That was only in the media. He always protected his players against criticism from the outside.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/man-utd-ashley-young-solskjaer-17376795
Ah yes, great example, pick a game we won.
Apparently, you just simply wiped away what I said and what it internally implies. Give you a hint why I used it as an example: we won CL final and Villarreal won Europa final.
Let down by shitty defending
We were crap and he got the tactics all wrong in a game everyone expected us to win, is my recollection. Nobody still wanted him here after it. It’s pure revisionism to pine for him now.
Comparing maybe the greatest footballing comeback ever, or one of them, by the master of last minute comebacks, to our Villarreal game to try justify your point just cause Bayern were the better team overall is silly.
Some likely won't be a fan of the flashy edits/music. But I really enjoyed watching this:
And I'm sure some won't like how it also adds clips from his playing career, but usually they showed after how we'd score similar goals and play in a similar style/vibe with Ole as the manager.
And I'm sure some won't like how it also adds clips from his playing career, but usually they showed after how we'd score similar goals and play in a similar style/vibe with Ole as the manager.
Or maybe we can form a team of assistents, Pep for possesion stuff, Simeone for defense, Klopp for motivation, Magath for fitness and Heynckes for dealing with the egos. Whats the point of clamouring for someone where you need to "mitigate" and "limit"? I've seen it like a thousand times now - played the best football after SAF. Thats not much of a compliment guys. And if that had so much impression, I get kind of suspicious whether you really watch the 90minutes version of our games or just the highlights. Because we rarely played well or even very well. There were a few games in the interim phase, yes. And I think, in that 2nd place season, we had a couple of very professional performances where we limited the opponent enough to be able to conserve energy. Moyes 78 crosses football sucked, LVG possession borefest sucked even harder, Mou was destructive and pissed most of the time and ETH fails quite hard to implement different playstyles. That is what Ole is up against. To be better than that, average is more than enough (and just to be sure: I am talking about performances here). Ole was part of the team that made the transfers of Maguire and AWB. He plays his part in Rashford apparently being stuck in terms of development. You act as if Ole couldn't do better because of the team, but Ole talked about his vertical stuff all the time. Pressing, Control, dominating, chances, pace. Yet it was never there apart from the few times we came up against teams who didn't get the memo.
I mean, obviously, being happy or frustrated are subjective things but it really feels as if the worse it gets with the current manager, the better the one before becomes.
Ugghh... I tried, but can't handle more than 90 seconds. Half of those is showing stuff not connected to his teams but him as a player, next is probably Molde. And then it comes right back, the empty phrases like fearlessness bla bla bla. The same bullshit Bruno and Rashford and a couple of others are still talking about when trying to justify them playing shit football without intelligence.
But I don't want to derail that thread. I hope to god, that the club isn't dumb enough to succumb to such measures.
It feels like you're pointing fingers in the wrong direction here.
We hardly made any successful transfers during Woodward's stewardship. Mourinho also wanted Maguire in 2018, but Woodward refused to pay Leicester's 60m asking price. Only to then pay 80m for him the following year.
Rashford's lack of development? Look at where he was as a player when Mourinho was sacked compared to when Ole was sacked. He had a huge uptick in form during Ole's interim spell. Then in both of Ole's full seasons in charge, Rashford reached 20+ goals in all comps. He had never done that before. He has also only gone on to do that once more in the subsequent three seasons.
Oh for sure. I certainly wouldn't put all this in front of Oles door. He is not the one at fault for it. But he played his part. Obviously we don't know, but I am sure, had Ole said "come on guys, 80 is too much, they are taking us to the cleaners, get somebody else in" that would have been a possibilty. I am sure, Murtough, Carrick and McKenna would have agreed that this price was way over the top and we were taken advantage of. But we went through with it, because it was the obvious thing to do. A bit like with AWB. The obvious candidate, marketing possible as "young and english" yadda yadda. Went on with Sancho by the way. So yes, the recruitment was shit before Ole came and it has been questionworthy after him - but at the same time, lets not forget that the manager, rightly or wrongly, always had a big role in identifying who to bring in". Ole should have stopped Maguire for 80 - same as ETH should have/ had to stop the Antony for 95.
And for Rashford - all attackers flourished more or less - easy thing to do when you play a style that enables you to attack space, especially when you are a pacey wing forward. And in his first season, I though Rashford was fantastic - dangerous on his own but mostly facilitating for others. Putting in the yards, put others into play. That completely vanished during Oles time and till today. Would that have happened without Ole? Good chance, yeah, but we don't know. Fact of the matter is, those two good seasons gave him the fat contracts he is now on, not justifying it. Again, not Oles fault but this talisman crap with Bruno long to Rashford in behind, started there. It felt like Rashford lost football IQ points during that time. A condition he and our team is suffering from until today.
I am aware, that in my perception many roads seem to end at Ole. I know, he isn't at fault on his own. But he was a bit of a smiling puppet, not doing anything against some of those developments taking place. And while that is nothing I hold a grudge against for - after all he is more or less a newbie on that level, I get uncomfortably triggered when his time gets depicted in a way, that seems so misrepresented to me. I know, subjective stuff, fair enough. Those will be my last posts in this thread. And then I leave it to fate hoping that the existence of that thread leads to a fan movement to bring him back.