Except under Moyes (who was able to defeat only Arsenal), we defeated the big teams with pretty much every manager, be it Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole or ten Hag, to be fair.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Managerial Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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True. As I've said many times, United should have done what they said they'd do: assess at the end of the season and make an appointment.
Woodward made a typical, idiotic Woodward call - based on fan sentiment and "marketability".
Ole did great as an interim, on the whole. It should have ended there. I said so at the time, and I never changed my basic opinion on that during Ole's stint as non-interim manager (despite being accused more than once of being an "Ole apologist").
What I refused to do, over the next couple of seasons, was to label Ole a "fraud". Because that label had no basis in reality. You don't end up 3rd and 2nd in the PL in successive seasons if you're a "fraud".
Or, if you will, if what he did makes him a "fraud", then the implied definition of "fraud" renders the term itself meaningless: "Not great = fraud."
The very idea of a "fraud" finishing 3rd and 2nd in the league in successive seasons must be premised, to some degree, on a) the squad doing the job for him (i.e. any idiot could have done it) and/or b) the opposition being shite.
How does that stand up to scrutiny? How does it compare to his predecessors (in terms of squad strength and the strength of the opposition)?
I'll save you the bother: it's obviously bollocks. You'll have the odd LVG or Maureen fanboy telling you otherwise, but those people should be ignored per default since they're biased as feck (and all the more annoying because they're desperately pretending not to be).
Historically, Ole was neither significantly better nor significantly worse than his predecessors from an objective point of view. He was part of the Woodward era (where nothing was spot on, and the basic structure of the club on the football side was essentially fecked up), like all the others.
We were actually talking about bringing in a director of football who would make the decision regarding the next manager. A few good results later, the same people who made previous bad appointments thought they struck gold and changed the plan.
Indeed, yes.
Thanks for pointing that out - it's worth to remember: the line from the club was precisely that. Hire a DOF (it was explicitly stated as something they'd - finally - do).
Never happened, as we know.
Woodward went with the here-and-now and (probably, I suspect) with what the sponsors considered a grand story: Ole, the legend, returning...restoring Fergie's ways...whatever.
Not more than Ole though. And I'm not saying we should have kept Ole longer. But ETH has not proved to be a great coach. Hopefully he will be.
Not a coincidence since 2018 to when ETH came, we didn't have a 'permanent' manager. It's when we lost direction as a club.
Even Ferguson himself said it when interviewed in some horse race event, that we needed a manager to take control of the club. And with ETH we have done exactly that in managerial aspect, now we need take control in football matches and we will win matches then trophies as a byproduct.
Its a very simple analogy and it's what works every time in almost everything in the world but we as United really did track with making a interim Ole as a permanent manager. That was the main mistake.
Even Ferguson himself said it when interviewed in some horse race event, that we needed a manager to take control of the club. And with ETH we have done exactly that in managerial aspect, now we need take control in football matches and we will win matches then trophies as a byproduct.
Its a very simple analogy and it's what works every time in almost everything in the world but we as United really did track with making a interim Ole as a permanent manager. That was the main mistake.
I can easily separate the two. Ole the player I love and always will but Ole the manager was shite.
As time goes on it looks like he was carried by McKenna and Carrick, Bruno's purple patch and covid (our away record never happens with fans). When Ole speaks about football it's hard to listen to, it's like a caricature of SAF and anyone not blinkered by the United way rhetoric can see right through it.
The one thing I'll give him is he knew how to dig himself out of a hole to get a result. He should've been let go much earlier but in the same way he got the job, he did just enough to have you believing but never enough ultimately.
His tenure could only happen here. At a PL club where he has no built up goodwill, Ole would be sacked in months.
As time goes on it looks like he was carried by McKenna and Carrick, Bruno's purple patch and covid (our away record never happens with fans). When Ole speaks about football it's hard to listen to, it's like a caricature of SAF and anyone not blinkered by the United way rhetoric can see right through it.
The one thing I'll give him is he knew how to dig himself out of a hole to get a result. He should've been let go much earlier but in the same way he got the job, he did just enough to have you believing but never enough ultimately.
His tenure could only happen here. At a PL club where he has no built up goodwill, Ole would be sacked in months.
Very good post, thank you.
I mean he’s already won something. The bar isn’t particularly high.
Some Mickey Mouse Cup yes. Fantastic!
Which is actually far more than what Ole achieved in 3 years. Sounds pretty poorly on Ole's part.
Ole was at the wheel
Tell me how did that feel
We had Pogba, Lingard and James
His last season tasted like Thames
I'm take my coat
Tell me how did that feel
We had Pogba, Lingard and James
His last season tasted like Thames
I'm take my coat
Says. It. All.
To be fair, he would've been sacked if he failed to achieve top 4. He always did just enough to survive.
That Ole failed to win in his whole tenure...I think the League cup is a joke, it should be scrapped, but it's at least a trophy
Lampard has been far worse and keeps getting jobs.
Tactical mastermind
How any United fan can hold a grudge against Ole is beyond me.
Of course he has already eclipsed Ole. He won a trophy and surpassed Ole’s highest ever points total after inheriting, factually, our worst ever squad since the Premier League’s inception in 1992. Ole hasn’t done more for us as a manager just because he managed us for longer than Ten Hag has so far.
Also, Ten Hag did all that after bringing Ajax to the CL semi final and winning the Eredivisie every season that he coached them. Before you frown on the latter achievement, Ajax came 3rd this year and were nowhere near winning the title with a new manager who inherited the squad Ten Hag built. What more could he have done so far in his managerial career to prove that he’s a great coach?
I'm curious, can you explain the "factually, our worst ever squad since the Premier League's inception in 1992"?
Would love to understand the metric(s) you're using to make such a statement.
More than half the ETH Ajax starting lineup left the club same summer as him. Of course Ajax struggled after that.
We finished with our lowest ever points total in Premier League history in the 2021-22 season, not even eclipsing the 60 mark. We also finished with a goal difference of 0. For context, Moyes’ 2013-14 team finished with a GD of +21. That is how bad we were in 2021-22.
I agree, if ten Hag retired today nobody would talk about him being a great coach, but the foundations are there to see. Much more clear than with Ole's where no style was implemented remember all the talk about individual brilliance.
Ten Hag lost Mazraoui, Tagliafico, De Jong, Donny, De Ligt, Ziyech, Neres, Huntelaar and even Onana for a prolonged period of time due to his ban. He is probably the one manager who has suffered the most from transfer losses in world football in the past decade. Hence, it’s not a valid reason for why Schreuder couldn’t pick up where Ten Hag left off, because ETH coped fine with losing players himself.
The caf absolutely loves this debate. I think it stems from the fact that it was pretty evenly divided between his backers and detractors. There was also all the animosity aimed at the detractors for bloody ages even as it became more and more obvious he was never ever gonna be good enough for even a decent premier league side. A lot of tit for tat on either side but became pretty obnoxious the backers trying to paint the detractors as essentially shitty fans and bad human beings. So threads like these will probably resurface every now and again and we'll all enjoy the drama all over again 
Edit: Gonna add to this I always thought he was a pretty amazing man manager.
Edit: Gonna add to this I always thought he was a pretty amazing man manager.
Anyone who shits on a club legend is a pretty shitty fanThe caf absolutely loves this debate. I think it stems from the fact that it was pretty evenly divided between his backers and detractors. There was also all the animosity aimed at the detractors for bloody ages even as it became more and more obvious he was never ever gonna be good enough for even a decent premier league side. A lot of tit for tat on either side but became pretty obnoxious the backers trying to paint the detractors as essentially shitty fans and bad human beings. So threads like these will probably resurface every now and again and we'll all enjoy the drama all over again
And round and round we go then
. Doesn't it depend on definitions of 'shitting on' somewhat?I love how random nobodies who haven't achieved an iota of what Ole has throughout his playing and managerial career can come up with ridiculous statements like this.
I mean if you have to ask...And round and round we go then
So like if someone says 'no top team would want him as their manager' is that shitting on him?
Mazraoul and Tagliafico left last summmer. Those players also left last summer: Antony, Martinez, Haller, Gravenberch, Schuurs, Onana, and Blind.. He never lost so many players that were regular starters in the same season. 19/20: Dolberg, De Light and De Jong left. 19/20. Botman(he was loaned from Ajax the season before so was not used or missed by ETH.) Ziyech and Van de Beek, 37 years old Huntelaar and he was not a starter his last season left in January.. 20/21 ETH last Ajax season Neres left in January so he was only missed for half the season.
Nah. At the worst period some people were calling him personal insults like pet nicknames, to the point where the forum filter had to be used.
The caf absolutely loves this debate. I think it stems from the fact that it was pretty evenly divided between his backers and detractors. There was also all the animosity aimed at the detractors for bloody ages even as it became more and more obvious he was never ever gonna be good enough for even a decent premier league side. A lot of tit for tat on either side but became pretty obnoxious the backers trying to paint the detractors as essentially shitty fans and bad human beings. So threads like these will probably resurface every now and again and we'll all enjoy the drama all over again
Edit: Gonna add to this I always thought he was a pretty amazing man manager.
He is not a bad man manager, but he is not a particularly good one let alone amazing. He is good for a specific circumstance when a term needs to recover from a toxic bullying manager - and that is why is a good caretaker. When everyone just needs patting on the back and getting over bad times. But that is only a (relatively limited) part of man management.
However, when it goes beyond that his limitations start to show. He seems to struggle stamping his authority over some players. In an attempt to make everyone happy he over promises in terms of game time. He does not seem to strike a right balance between sticks and carrots. Is prone to favoritism. Lets players get away with too much. And so on.
There were enough reports of that and you could read that between the lines of interviews of many of our players. There was definitely a sense that he treated many players unfairly (in both directions), and our dressing room was not a happy one especially towards the end of his tenure. So, no, he is not a particularly good/amazing man manager.
Yeah fair points. I mean amazing in that he got 2nd and 3rd and there's no way in hell that was down to anything like organisation or tactics. Also sheer number of times team came back from going behind to win. Obv it's a fecking bad sign if you are constantly going behind in games, but he was at the helm when the team repeatedly pulled a rabbit out of a hat week after week and so you have to give him some credit for it.
I'll revise it as he was a pretty amazing man manager for certain players over a pretty short period of time with disastrous long term consequences
.Doesnt that make the side last season as the worst ever? If we're saying we spent 200m or whatever on that side to end up with the worst side, then I think we're in trouble
Better manager than some that keep getting chance after chance and failing that's for sure.
Has “reportedly” turned down is not a direct quote. Full article is behind a paywall so can’t read.
Are you still harping on with this 'Ole is lying' facade