Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Gasolin]

Apparently we do though. I think the Ole supporter call it counter punch pressing.. something silly like that.

Jesus... maybe you guys don't want to see the games but that's another story. I cannot keep repeating myself again and again so if you do not want to see, yeah... I know Bielsa, I've seen him first hand at OM as I am obviously a French speaker and have had a lot of friends who like Marseille, I remember him, and yeah, he's a bit particular. I won't get into the use of strikers to push up the defensive lines, which is a bit special because they are not really about asking space, rather compressing space as much as possible to allow for his own team to move up, etc...

But it's the first time I hear counter pressing is silly. I have shown how we use this counter pressing in specific games, and if you try to watch what the team tries to do, you would see it too. And again, I can't find it, but I am sure some people follow the PPDA ranking so I would love for someone to find those stats and the evolution of our PPDA across the season. You will see it's closely correlated to how we fare in the league, but that's more telling about consistency rather than what we actually try to do.

 

[Jambalaya]

Just look what is Conte doing at Inter.Only Ole needs 10 years...
Joke of the club.

 

[AneRu]

The work Biesla did at Leeds was/is amazing. Took an average hoof ball championship team that finished 14 and in one summer, with no signings (or very few) completely changed their style of play. None of that transition or needs money/windows excuses that frauds make. Let’s his actions and outcome do the talking.

He is only getting the space to say that because of Woodward's ego and the potential ramifications of another failed managerial appointment. Without that Ole would be gone and this talk wouldn't be peddled. That some are lapping it up as gospel is rather sad and unfortunate.

 

[POF]

Your argument is just completely illogical so I’ve absolutely no response.

On a thread where the only arguments appear to be "Ole is great" or "Ole is rubbish", I am not surprised because it's a significant deviation from the norm.

 

[SteveW]

A lot of our players have low footballing IQ or play like they do. Pereira Rashford Mcctominay AWB James Lingard shit even De Gea. It's why we only look dangerous on the most basic tactic that does not rely on intelligence which is counter attack. This doesn't mean they are bad players, they are just not intelligent on the pitch

But It's up to Ole to set up this side to play intelligently because most of them can't do it on their own since they just don't have the footballing IQ necessary (eg Rashford and Pereira constantly shooting when there are options to pass) . People will say that getting creative and better players will make us play better. I agree. But I believe what separates the best coaches from the rest is the ability to make average players and unintelligent players play intelligently and better than their ability suggests. It's why Ferguson is the greatest and why Klopp is rated more than Guardiola.

Like I said I wouldn't say our players are all average. But most of them have low footballing IQ. And what they need is a coach that is tactically sound to guide them to play intelligently

Why did Klopp sign 18 senior players if he can just make players play better than their ability. Why not just win with the ones he had?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Just look what is Conte doing at Inter.Only Ole needs 10 years...
Joke of the club.

Yeah but it's Chelsea... they love to sack their managers. Harsh to call them a joke.

 

[90 + 5min]

Just look what is Conte doing at Inter.Only Ole needs 10 years...
Joke of the club.

Conte is doing fine and credit to him. But if you are honest to yourself then you know the question if Conte came to Italy’s best club (after Juventus) and then think in what state ManUtd were when Solskjaer arriverad. The difference is gigantic.

 

[Womp]

Conte at Inter, Bielsa at Leeds, Pep at City, Klopp, Eddie Howe, Arteta, Chris Wilder, Rodgers etc. The list goes on. This nonsense that a manager needs 87 transfer windows, 4 years and top players to improve the team's football and stamp an identity on the club is rubbish. It's not about results, it's about the fact that there is no identifiable progression or change. The guy simply isn't good enough and the longer we dawdle, the more we feck any chance at getting anything from this season and the chance to sign a top manager. Our issue has always been dawdling instead of being proactive, leading to us getting our second or third options, starting to feel like deja vu.

 

[POF]

I have been saying from the start that the only striker we were in was a cheap backup for short term like Mandzukic but were never in at any point interested in bringing a top striker to fill the position of Lukaku. Ole just wanted a backup option on the bench for Martial and Rashford and that's about it. Otherwise what were the top striker options that were going to take the main spot upfront we were interested in during the entire 3 months of the summer? Answer is simply none.

As for Dybala, all the links with him were when Juve wanted to hijack the Inter deal with Lukaku and wanted to sign him. They didn't want Dybala so decided to offer him to us in a swap deal. Of course we were willing to go on with it till the player rejected us, however, not at any point we approached Juve to sign the player. What's our problem in that, why should we blame the board for a player that another club offered to us, the player found himself forced in a deal that he didn't want and rejected us? What is the mistake the board did here exactly?

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nchester-united-as-part-of-romelu-lukaku-deal

https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-...ources-juve-to-offer-united-dybala-for-lukaku

Yes, it's ultimately Ole's fault because his planning for the market was to prioritize the defense over other positions. We decided to not spend 50m on Longstaff then splashed the cash on Maguire instead, and all our interest in any other midfielder died after Maguire's deal. We decided to not chase a top striker and were fine trying to get a backup option for the bench only as Mandzukic, or are you suggesting these two weren't the manager's decisions? It was his decision that defense was the most important priority of the summer and the position we should splash the majority of the budget on it and spend in it before thinking about spending in other positions, considering how he labeled Maguire his top target of the summer :

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...ry-maguire-was-his-number-one-transfer-target

So he has to live or die with his own decisions I guess. As I said in the previous post we could have approached the summer and spent those 150m in different ways than we did, but we ultimately decided that defense is the biggest priority for us, far more important than a top midfielder or a top striker.

Ole didn't want a front line striker, he only wanted an experienced back up for depth? Ok got it.

And he got? Nobody.

So, when Martial got injured in the 3rd league game of the season and they had to play for over a month with no forwards, that was Ole's fault? Because he only asked for an experienced back up which is the same as nothing?

Have a little think about what you're saying and see if it makes sense.

The plan was for Martial to be the front line striker with Rashford, Greenwood and an experienced back up for cover. That's a good approach considering how inexperienced Rashford and Martial are.

By moving Martial to a permanent role up front, the gap was a creative player in midfield so they wanted a number 10 and went for Eriksen after the Dybala deal didn't happen. Who knows who else they were in for that never became public? But if you agree a deal for one number 10 and inquire about another it suggests you might want one? He didn't get that either.

But he needs to be held accountable for the signings he identified not performing even though the club didn't sign them?

 

[90 + 5min]

Why did Klopp sign 18 senior players if he can just make players play better than their ability. Why not just win with the ones he had?

No No No. Don’t ask those questions. We all know that Klopp won everything day after he came with same players manager before him had. He didn’t even need to buy players. All he did was clap with his hand and four year later they won first trophy.

 

[Womp]

Why did Klopp sign 18 senior players if he can just make players play better than their ability. Why not just win with the ones he had?

Klopp's progression with the team was extremely evident almost as soon as he got there. They were playing his style. It's not just about the players or the results. It's about the fact that under Ole, over a year into his tenure, we don't look any better coached than when he first got here. Outside of counter attacking tactics (which are the easiest to coach) we look absolutely clueless. That's on top of the fact that we are getting shite results too.

It's true that Klopp needed to sign players to turn the good football into winning football, but that in itself came with top tier coaching. Look at the players Ole has signed, they don't look any better than they did before joining here. In fact, you could argue that AWB and Maguire look worse than at their previous clubs. It's not enough to just sign players, all teams are rich now. We need a manager that can coach the best out of his players and it's becoming very evident that Ole just cannot do that. Klopp signed players and made them look much better than the sum of their parts due to his system and coaching. Ole signed players who look clueless outside of counter attacking setups and have arguably gotten worse since moving here, that's the difference.

We ain't a fecking charity to put blind faith in someone who isn't showing any signs at all of repaying that faith, don't give a shite how much of a legend he is here. Love the guy as a player, as a manager though, he's doing nothing to suggest he's anything other than a failure who has gotten very lucky.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Klopp's progression with the team was extremely evident almost as soon as he got there. They were playing his style. It's not just about the players or the results. It's about the fact that under Ole, over a year into his tenure, we don't look any better coached than when he first got here. Outside of counter attacking tactics (which are the easiest to coach) we look absolutely clueless. That's on top of the fact that we are getting shite results too. We ain't a fecking charity to put blind faith in someone who isn't showing any signs at all of repaying that faith, don't give a shite how much of a legend he is here. Love the guy as a player, as a manager though, he's doing nothing to suggest he's anything other than a failure who has gotten very lucky.

Not true. There are a lot of things we are doing now that we didn't do under Jose. That much is clear on the pitch.

We still do have problems though.

 

[90 + 5min]

Conte at Inter, Bielsa at Leeds, Pep at City, Klopp, Eddie Howe, Arteta, Chris Wilder, Rodgers etc. The list goes on. This nonsense that a manager needs 87 transfer windows and 4 years to improve the team's football and stamp an identity on the club is rubbish. It's not about results, it's about the fact that there is no identifiable progression or change. The guy simply isn't good enough and the longer we dawdle, the more we feck any chance at getting anything from this season and the chance to sign a top manager. Our issue has always been dawdling instead of being proactive, leading to us getting our second or third options, starting to feel like deja vu.

Are you really reading what you write?
Arteta have been in Arsenal for about 2 weeks. Howe is in relegation fight. Wilder is behind us despite you fancing him. Bielsa have made Leeds playing well in but ask how it went with Lazio , Lille and Marseille for example.
Conte came to a good team. Pep too. Credit to Klopp but it took 4 years before he won at Liverpool.
I don’t mind people criticizing Solskjaer but this kind of argument is just weak.

 

[Womp]

Not true. There are a lot of things we are doing now that we didn't do under Jose. That much is clear on the pitch.

We still do have problems though.

What does Jose have to do with anything? I didn't even mention Jose. The fact that we are 'doing things we weren't doing under Jose' is completely irrelevant. He was also another manager that wasn't good enough. You could get big Sam in and he'd do things we weren't doing under Jose too, doesn't make him a better candidate.


Also I really don't think it's that clear at all, for arguments sake. We look like a Jose team who just run around a lot more. We still set up defensively against all top teams and look to counter and look absolutely clueless when trying to break down a team that doesn't give us space to counter. Sounds eerily similar to a Jose team, in fact.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Klopp's progression with the team was extremely evident almost as soon as he got there. They were playing his style.

Stopped reading right here. Sorry but you are completely forgetting the work Rodgers did before him, laying the foundations for an exciting, attacking 433. He did implement his amazing fitness regimen and high press. But he could not do it without replacing pretty much the entire XI and managing to sign not one but two world class forwards without much fuss.

 

[Womp]

Are you really reading what you write?
Arteta have been in Arsenal for about 2 weeks. Howe is in relegation fight. Wilder is behind us despite you fancing him. Bielsa has Leeds playing well in but ask how it went with Lazio , Lille and Marseille for example.
Conte came to a good team. Pep too. Credit to Klopp but it took 4 years before he won at Liverpool.
I don’t mind people criticizing Solskjaer but this kind of argument is just weak.

You need to read what I write, instead. I never even mentioned winning. The whole premise of my post was that you don't need top players, a million years and 15 transfer windows to get an identity on the pitch, regardless of winning. Klopp took 4 years but his style was evident early on, same with Pep. Howe and Bournemouth are shite but they have a clear identity and clear coaching. Wilder came up from the championship last season and his team play better football than we do. Couldn't give a shite about what Bielsa did with previous clubs, especially considering you've completely missed the point of my post, it wasn't about performance, rather identity and progression. If we wanna talk about history, Ole failing at every gig outside of Norway is some history for you.

 

[Womp]

Stopped reading right here. Sorry but you are completely forgetting the work Rodgers did before him, laying the foundations for an exciting, attacking 433. He did implement his amazing fitness regimen and high press. But he could not do it without replacing pretty much the entire XI and managing to sign not one but two world class forwards without much fuss.

What does that have to do with anything? The pressing, the high intensity and the quick movement was evident very early on. They were playing good football with him despite losing some key players. He inherited a weak side but the progression was clear as feck to see. To suggest we see anything even remotely close with Ole is laughable imo.

 

[He'sRaldo]

What does Jose have to do with anything? I didn't even mention Jose. The fact that we are 'doing things we weren't doing under Jose' is completely irrelevant. He was also another manager that wasn't good enough. You could get big Sam in and he'd do things we weren't doing under Jose too, doesn't make him a better candidate.


Also I really don't think it's that clear at all, for arguments sake. We look like a Jose team who just run around a lot more. We still set up defensively against all top teams and look to counter and look absolutely clueless when trying to break down a team that doesn't give us space to counter. Sounds eerily similar to a Jose team, in fact.

You implied that we're no different than when Ole first came in .ie. under Jose. Whereas I'm saying we're doing a lot of things differently from Jose's tenure.

And I agree, we do lack ideas in a congested final 3rd.

 

[Womp]

You implied that we're no different than when Ole first came in .ie. under Jose. Whereas I'm saying we're doing a lot of things differently from Jose's tenure.

And I agree, we do lack ideas in a congested final 3rd.

Apologies, maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I meant the team under Ole since he arrived. We have always been quite good at counter attacking set ups, even before Ole arrived. Some games against City, Juve etc. under Mourinho were great counter attacking performances. Coaching to break down defences though, we've stagnated and look just as clueless as when Ole first arrived, which is worrying.

 

[90 + 5min]

You need to read what I write, instead. I never even mentioned winning. The whole premise of my post was that you don't need top players, a million years and 15 transfer windows to get an identity on the pitch, regardless of winning. Klopp took 4 years but his style was evident early on, same with Pep. Howe and Bournemouth are shite but they have a clear identity and clear coaching. Wilder came up from the championship last season and his team play better football than we do. Couldn't give a shite about what Bielsa did with previous clubs, especially considering you've completely missed the point of my post, it wasn't about performance, rather identity and progression. If we wanna talk about history, Ole failing at every gig outside of Norway is some history for you.

You seem little bit angry. Just take it easy and everything will be fine.
So it is all about style and identity. Well, when you lose style and identity after changing managers every 2-3 years and when you have the squad that we do then you can’t expect changes in a second. It takes time. And if you think that having identity but being shit (your words) is worth then we are not thinking the same about our future.

 

[mu4c_20le]

What does that have to do with anything? The pressing, the high intensity and the quick movement was evident very early on. They were playing good football with him despite losing some key players. He inherited a weak side but the progression was clear as feck to see. To suggest we see anything even remotely close with Ole is laughable imo.

Klopp took over a side that already had a similar style and philosophy, Ole has his work cut out for him by inheriting a broken, demotivated, unbalanced, and overpaid squad. Thats not to say he could end up just as good as Klopp but the comparison is hardly fair. And the same applies to Jose taking over from LVG, LVG from moyes, etc. Which once again shows that incompetence starts from the top.

 

[Womp]

You seem little bit angry. Just take it easy and everything will be fine.
So it is all about style and identity. Well, when you lose style and identity after changing managers every 2-3 years and when you have the squad that we do then you can’t expect changes in a second. It takes time. And if you think that having identity but being shit (your words) is worth then we are not thinking the same about our future.

Once again, you miss the intention of my post. Howe being shit isn't more important than winning, that's a strawman argument. The point of that comment was, with a shit squad, he was still able to get them playing some cohesive football, which puts the argument that our team isn't good enough to play progressive football to rest. Our incompetent board is another argument entirely, not even worth getting into that, they are here to stay, nothing we can do.

Now to address your point. Expecting changes in a second? He's been here for over a year and we don't look any different. There is no signs of progression. Still look great when teams give us space, absolutely clueless when they don't. It's not purely about progression and identity over winning. These days though, those things are required to win. People would be far more inclined to give him time if there was evidence of progression. We have stagnated with him, look no different than the side under Jose tbh. Relying on counter attacking set ups and individual brilliance from players.

 

[Womp]

Klopp took over a side that already had a similar style and philosophy, Ole has his work cut out for him by inheriting a broken, demotivated, unbalanced, and overpaid squad. Thats not to say he could end up just as good as Klopp but the comparison is hardly fair. And the same applies to Jose taking over from LVG, LVG from moyes, etc. Which once again shows that incompetence starts from the top.

Which is true. That doesn't change the fact though that Ole's own signings are looking worse than at their previous clubs. It doesn't change the fact though that he's had over a year and we look no different than we did under Jose. It doesn't change the fact that we have seen no signs of progression. It doesn't change the fact that managers like Conte, Rodgers etc. have shown you can make huge changes to both a club's performances and position in the league with some proper coaching, without needing so much time.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Apologies, maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I meant the team under Ole since he arrived. We have always been quite good at counter attacking set ups, even before Ole arrived. Some games against City, Juve etc. under Mourinho were great counter attacking performances. Coaching to break down defences though, we've stagnated and look just as clueless as when Ole first arrived, which is worrying.

I see what you mean. Like I said prior, we have been struggling against deep defences and there are things we could do to improve, but I wouldn't put it all on the coaching staff, as a lot of the players aren't proven at this level, and the ones who are, are generally doing well.

In my eyes, moving the ball up the pitch has been improved greatly, as well as pressing and escaping the press. I see this breaking down defences stage as one of the final pieces of the puzzle, where it could be a combination of any factors which helps us to do it. It could be an upgrade in playing staff, coaching staff, change in formation, change in manager, etc.

In any case, it has been something we have struggled with for years, so at this point it's a bit hard to put the blame on one singular entity for it.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

I feel like most the “discussion” here is posters arguing random points, such as how much better is spurs squad compared to us, how long it took pep to implement his style, or if Rodgers laid the foundation for Klopp. I understand there needs to be some context, but I feel like posters just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


In my opinion we’re at the stage that it’s too late for those types arguments, truth is, Ole’s been at the wheel for little over a year now, and we haven’t seen enough improvements, and that’s the answer, it not like he just started few months ago. We’re not some bottom of the table team, that we should get excited about minimal improvements and be okay with hovering around 5-8th. Excuses are running thin now, it’s time for the board to act in my opinion.

 

[Un4givableB]

Ole has his work cut out for him by inheriting a broken, demotivated, unbalanced, and overpaid squad. Thats not to say he could end up just as good as Klopp but the comparison is hardly fair. And the same applies to Jose taking over from LVG, LVG from moyes, etc. Which once again shows that incompetence starts from the top.

LIES, LIES and more LIES.

The 'broken' squad OSG inherited came 2nd in the league and got him the job as Utd manager. The major thing that was wrong that squad was Jose.

 

[momo83]

But he could not do it without replacing pretty much the entire XI and managing to sign not one but two world class forwards without much fuss.

Didn’t realise Salah and Mane were viewed as world class when Liverpool signed them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

On a thread where the only arguments appear to be "Ole is great" or "Ole is rubbish", I am not surprised because it's a significant deviation from the norm.

Yeah something in between is more aper, like 'Ole is mediocre'. Which to be fair is pretty rubbish for a club like Manchester United who need a top coach. Which is what is often forgotten by those in oles favour. He's here because he's apparently got all the right intentions, has United values and knows the club. Not because he's a top manager or one in the making

 

[mu4c_20le]

LIES, LIES and more LIES.

The 'broken' squad OSG inherited came 2nd in the league and got him the job as Utd manager. The major thing that was wrong that squad was Jose.

We had no rightback. We had no real wingers, and no right winger at all. No DMs with any legs. He got the job when Lingard was firing and Pogba was fit and motivated. The only thing you said right is Jose, he is responsible for building that team. We came in 2nd playing awful awful football and relying on booting it up to Fellaini.

 

[L1nk]

Anybody defending Ole can you seriously say he would be anywhere in contention for the United job, if he wasn't an ex player?

If you took one look at his credentials and his football, knowing that he never played for United, you'd all be disgusted at hiring such an underqualified and tactically inept manager, one that's vastly more underqualified than Moyes actually.

You can say no you wouldn't or it doesn't matter cause he did play for us, but you all know the reality is you'd have that exact reaction and that you are only defending how he's doing because he used to play for us.

Nobody here should hate Ole, he is by all rights a club legend yes, but I'm sick and tired of this chasing after the old days mentality, Fergie is retired and we're still chasing his shadow, now with explayers, trying to act all high and mighty and making sure we have to give managers time and more time and multiple windows before we judge based on absolutely nothing but our sense of moral superioty as a club.

People are right in this thread, whether a clubs in a bad place or a good place there are numerous examples of clubs where are manager comes in and you see what they are doing on the field, you see an example of that managers influence and what they want to do in terms of how that team plays, maybe not immediately, but you see it quickly. Obviously an immediate example being Brendan Rogers, he's come into Leicester and you see his influence, you just see it already. We haven't seen this with Ole, at all, we set up to counter attack, which we often do poorly, and if we can't do that we are completely clueless, that's it, that is all we do. You can say it's the players but how can anyone legitimately post here defending the way we play football in this day and age, it's a travesty.

Marco Rose, who was reportedly on our list, took over at Gladbach and he has them sitting 2nd in the Bundesliga with a real chance this season that they could win it. Nagelsmann has Leipzig 1st. They didn't need multiple seasons for this. You already see how they perform and how they play football.

So why doesn't it happen for us? Why are we seemingly the only club in world football that has to wait for our manager to take multiple seasons and transfer windows to get his act together and put his stamp on the club, at least this is what alot of people's opinions here are.

Moyes - Completely average
LVG - I'd argue the only manager to really imprint a style of play on the club, albeit it was boring as hell and he was well past it when we hired him
Mourinho - Won, but he's past his best and the football was dire
Solksjaer - Would be nowhere near the club if he wasn't an ex player.

Everyone here ridiculed the likes of wanting Marco Rose or Nagelsmann or Klopp etc, claiming they were just flavours of the month and hipster managers, they aren't, these kinds of managers are the future of this game and we should be hiring these kinds of managers that can stamp their philosophy on the team, a modern one, I really cannot buy into the looking back to Sir Alex shite, the game has moved on, why do people here refuse to do the same

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Personally, I'd want a structure that keeps the manager away from the selection process. The managers role should be limited to identifying positions that need upgrading, but the actual selection process and who the club chooses should have little to do with him.

The idea behind this being, the club chooses the best possible players for their own needs irrespective of who the manager is at the time. If a manager like Mourinho wants a lump in his midfield, but the club finds/identifies a better player they should go for him. Then just change the manager, as per what the squad needs. Squads are far, far more valuable assets than managers, so you should be trying to assemble the best group of players possible and hiring the right coach for them to maximise your results.

But that will work anyway as the entire committee needs to agree to a signing, not just the manager.
If Ole identifies a lump, any of the guys on the committee can veto it.

It also ensures the manager isn’t lumped with a player he absolutely does not want in his squad.

I like the idea, seems a common sense way to go about it.

 

[Un4givableB]

Didn’t realise Salah and Mane were viewed as world class when Liverpool signed them.

I think combined they cost Liverpool about £70m, Everton paid 10m more for Gylfi Sigurdsson than Liverpool paid for Salah but the apologists will retrofit facts for their dumb talking points.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Nobody here should hate Ole, he is by all rights a club legend yes, but I'm sick and tired of this chasing after the old days mentality, Fergie is retired and we're still chasing his shadow, now with explayers, trying to act all high and mighty and making sure we have to give managers time and more time and multiple windows before we judge based on absolutely nothing but our sense of moral superioty as a club.

This here lies the problem. Chasing the glory that Ferguson had. We hired Moyes because he was supposed to carry on Ferguson's legacy, the chosen one. It did not work out, we panicked and started looking for quick fixes and got managers and players to quickly fix things. It did not work out.

Ole came in and performed well for the first few games. But because we're still fixated about Ferguson's glory days we interpreted it as "Ole, the legend created by Ferguson himself has brought back the United spirit of old". The game against PSG sealed this thought. Ole himself would say "This is how United should be, two goals isn't enough...... Attack attack attack". We were convinced that he had brought or was bringing back the United spirit of old after the winning run and the convincing press conferences. Since he has brought that United spirit back, Now all he needed was the time and resources to bring the glory.

Fast forward a year later, zero progression. We only look dangerous with counter attacks and when Rashford or Greenwood has the ball. You can even say the quality of our squad has declined. Even Ole's press conference went from "Two goals isn't enough" to "Hopefully instead of losing once a month it can be once in two months".

But we're rebuilding to our glory days and it takes time since even Ferguson who took us there took time. Let's give Ole time and remember 30 years ago how Ferguson took time to rebuild the squad. Let's target British players because it's what worked 30 years ago. Trying to recreate the past.

The past was Ferguson's glory. He did it himself. You can't chase after someone's glory and expect to succeed. The Ole supporters want to give him time because they are all fixated in the past. "Ole was one of us so he understands the culture of the club,"Ferguson took time to rebuild so Ole should take as long as he wants", "We used to have Young English players or academy players so we should continue doing that".

The truth is, there is no United spirit or United way or United culture. Our glory days were run by Fergie and were his glory days but it looked like United's own because of how long it was. If Guardiola or Klopp stayed in City or Liverpool and kept winning for 20 more years everything they are doing doing will become the culture of the club. It was stated that Ferguson was both DOF and Manager so everything about that United team in the past - the academy players, signing youthetc was his identity that has been translated to the culture of the club. He's gone now and we need a new identity not to replicate Ferguson's like Ole is trying to do.

A DOF is the most important thing we need right now. We need a DOF that can come and put his mark and change the whole team in his own way. Hiring coaches and players that will fit his philosophy not Ferguson's philosophy. Whether his philosophy involves academy players or British players or signing Galacticos like Perez.

 

[RedBanker]

Ole's managerial style reminds me of the HIMYM episode where Marshall has to coach a kids basketball team and tells them to "go and have fun" (on Lily's insistence) and in they end they all get "participation trophies".

 

[ravi2]

This here lies the problem. Chasing the glory that Ferguson had. We hired Moyes because he was supposed to carry on Ferguson's legacy, the chosen one. It did not work out, we panicked and started looking for quick fixes and got managers and players to quickly fix things. It did not work out.

Ole came in and performed well for the first few games. But because we're still fixated about Ferguson's glory days we interpreted it as "Ole, the legend created by Ferguson himself has brought back the United spirit of old". The game against PSG sealed this thought. Ole himself would say "This is how United should be, two goals isn't enough...... Attack attack attack". We were convinced that he had brought or was bringing back the United spirit of old after the winning run and the convincing press conferences. Since he has brought that United spirit back, Now all he needed was the time and resources to bring the glory.

Fast forward a year later, zero progression. We only look dangerous with counter attacks and when Rashford or Greenwood has the ball. You can even say the quality of our squad has declined. Even Ole's press conference went from "Two goals isn't enough" to "Hopefully instead of losing once a month it can be once in two months".

But we're rebuilding to our glory days and it takes time since even Ferguson who took us there took time. Let's give Ole time and remember 30 years ago how Ferguson took time to rebuild the squad. Let's target British players because it's what worked 30 years ago. Trying to recreate the past.

The past was Ferguson's glory. He did it himself. You can't chase after someone's glory and expect to succeed. The Ole supporters want to give him time because they are all fixated in the past. "Ole was one of us so he understands the culture of the club,"Ferguson took time to rebuild so Ole should take as long as he wants", "We used to have Young English players or academy players so we should continue doing that".

The truth is our glory days were were run by Fergie and was his glory days but it looked like United own because of how long it was. This current United is where it is because it's being run by a banker. It's a mess like this. We need a DOF that can come and put his mark and change the whole team in his own way. Hiring coaches and players that will fit his philosophy not Ferguson's philosophy. Whether his philosophy involves academy players or British players or signing Galacticos like Perez. It was stated that Ferguson was both DOF and Manager so everything about that United team in the past - the academy players, signing youth etc was his identity. He's gone now and we need a new identity not to replicate Ferguson's like Ole is trying to do. A DOF is the most important thing we need right now

Ole isn't the man long term but firing him does little at this point unless the structure above him changes as well so he might as well stay.

 

[el3mel]

Ole didn't want a front line striker, he only wanted an experienced back up for depth? Ok got it.

And he got? Nobody.

So, when Martial got injured in the 3rd league game of the season and they had to play for over a month with no forwards, that was Ole's fault? Because he only asked for an experienced back up which is the same as nothing?

Have a little think about what you're saying and see if it makes sense.

The plan was for Martial to be the front line striker with Rashford, Greenwood and an experienced back up for cover. That's a good approach considering how inexperienced Rashford and Martial are.

By moving Martial to a permanent role up front, the gap was a creative player in midfield so they wanted a number 10 and went for Eriksen after the Dybala deal didn't happen. Who knows who else they were in for that never became public? But if you agree a deal for one number 10 and inquire about another it suggests you might want one? He didn't get that either.

But he needs to be held accountable for the signings he identified not performing even though the club didn't sign them?

Not getting a backup striker isn't much of a big loss to warrant having such a crap season so far. Not every manager in any club gets every single signing they ask for in the market, and they all have to do with it, especially when it's not a main player.

 

[Judas]

After the Jose misery it sounded so nice to hear someone with the supposed "traditional values" of the club, that little hit of nostalgia was such a refreshing change. But the truth is, if you don't look forward, you end up doing what Liverpool did for decades, chasing the past and living off the glory days of history. They're winning the league this year, won the CL last and how have they done it? A new identity, embracing modern ideas and throwing out the obsession with the old Liverpool. If we don't do the same, we're destined to sink much like they did for years and years.

 

[Toni Roncoroni]

Funny to see how many of you buy this "needs time to implement his style" or whatsoever. He needs time to learn how to coach. Usually this is being done while coaching kids. I cannot understand how we are accepting this mess. For me it is also crystal clear that we won't get back with Ole. Doesn't matter how long he will be here.

But a lot of the fans seem to be happy being 8th and having the "real" United-style back.. Well I am not.

 

[Revaulx]

How tragic we ended up with one of footballs best players. Lord forbid this happens again and we get Mbappe.

I wasn’t passing judgement on Pogba’s quality.

I was questioning the notion that he was chosen by Jose. He never seemed a good fit for a Jose team.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Anybody defending Ole can you seriously say he would be anywhere in contention for the United job, if he wasn't an ex player?

If you took one look at his credentials and his football, knowing that he never played for United, you'd all be disgusted at hiring such an underqualified and tactically inept manager, one that's vastly more underqualified than Moyes actually.

You can say no you wouldn't or it doesn't matter cause he did play for us, but you all know the reality is you'd have that exact reaction and that you are only defending how he's doing because he used to play for us.

Nobody here should hate Ole, he is by all rights a club legend yes, but I'm sick and tired of this chasing after the old days mentality, Fergie is retired and we're still chasing his shadow, now with explayers, trying to act all high and mighty and making sure we have to give managers time and more time and multiple windows before we judge based on absolutely nothing but our sense of moral superioty as a club.

People are right in this thread, whether a clubs in a bad place or a good place there are numerous examples of clubs where are manager comes in and you see what they are doing on the field, you see an example of that managers influence and what they want to do in terms of how that team plays, maybe not immediately, but you see it quickly. Obviously an immediate example being Brendan Rogers, he's come into Leicester and you see his influence, you just see it already. We haven't seen this with Ole, at all, we set up to counter attack, which we often do poorly, and if we can't do that we are completely clueless, that's it, that is all we do. You can say it's the players but how can anyone legitimately post here defending the way we play football in this day and age, it's a travesty.

Marco Rose, who was reportedly on our list, took over at Gladbach and he has them sitting 2nd in the Bundesliga with a real chance this season that they could win it. Nagelsmann has Leipzig 1st. They didn't need multiple seasons for this. You already see how they perform and how they play football.

So why doesn't it happen for us? Why are we seemingly the only club in world football that has to wait for our manager to take multiple seasons and transfer windows to get his act together and put his stamp on the club, at least this is what alot of people's opinions here are.

Moyes - Completely average
LVG - I'd argue the only manager to really imprint a style of play on the club, albeit it was boring as hell and he was well past it when we hired him
Mourinho - Won, but he's past his best and the football was dire
Solksjaer - Would be nowhere near the club if he wasn't an ex player.

Everyone here ridiculed the likes of wanting Marco Rose or Nagelsmann or Klopp etc, claiming they were just flavours of the month and hipster managers, they aren't, these kinds of managers are the future of this game and we should be hiring these kinds of managers that can stamp their philosophy on the team, a modern one, I really cannot buy into the looking back to Sir Alex shite, the game has moved on, why do people here refuse to do the same

A fantastic post.