Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think Ole May well be amongst the best young, up-and-coming tacticians in football management. There isn’t a top manager he hasn’t managed to outsmart yet, a list that includes Pep, Jose, Pochettino and Klopp. Granted he hasn’t had the chance to challenge the likes of Ancelotti, Allegri and Conte but it certainly doesn't seem beyond him.

Secondly, he absolutely bleeds Man Utd. As a player and a supporter since he stopped playing. He could recruit more experienced players who’re 75% committed to the cause and would come to increase their wages and their profile (Dybala for instance) to protect his reputation and get top four but you know he’s not going to do that. Plus he doesn’t believe top four should be the target for Man Utd anyway, and that it should be top. Period.

Thirdly, he is not just a head coach but rather at the heart of the overhaul and long term strategy at Man Utd, influencing the style of football, the culture and attitude within the current dressing room and the recruitment - the testament of the latter being the 3 signings all regular starters now and playing with heart and passion for the badge. (I’m guessing also this is why there hasn’t been an urgent need for a DoF since he got hired permanently.)

Fourthly, he has the backing of the players and they‘ve shown willingness to learn his methods and apply them but more importantly to fight for him.

For these reasons, we must all come together and back our manager. Ultimately we’re all in the same boat and want the same thing - the best for Man Utd and to see us at the top of the tree again at some point.

#OleIn
 
Here's a question, do you think Sam Allardyce would get similar results with this team? Because, and I'm not trying to cause conflict or provoke arguments here mate - I genuinely think he would have us around 6th. Sam Allardyce is a very limited, borderline poor manager but one thing Sam Allardyce can do is grind out results and get the team behind as a good man manager. One of the lads. What is so different about that, than what Ole is doing at the moment? I'll clue you in mate, don't worry - Sam Allardyce never played for us.

You can argue that every manager who wins games by 1 goal margin grind out results. And that means that Sam is in same box as Pep, Klopp, Solskjaer, Pulis, some League two manager and so on.
Sam would not get any of those results because of one thing. His football and current United players are far from eachother.
 
I think we’re going to be largely inconsistent, and basically see more of what we’ve already seen until we have a chance to reinforce the squad. The most telling thing for me though is that all the players clearly do believe in him, which is half the battle.
 
So, one side is emotional, the other side is rational.

The way I have understood those (at least many) wanting him out, they are angry. Angry at the Glaziers, angry at Woodward, angry at the board, angry at Ole. They refuse to lower the standards of the club, and they want everyone out who may be responsible for the loss of hegemony, Things have to be fixed now, not in a year. Not in two years.

Anger is an emotion.

Sack Ole, bring in someone new, and let him know your expectations. Fix it now! Bring in Erikson and Bale in January. Or some other proven stars. Cause I don´t think Ole will.

Of course there are emotions on both sides, his supporters will always give him that extra portion of patience. They will swallow some because the reward on the other side is bigger. There is more to win, so they are also willing to risk more. "Ole´s at the wheel". When did you hear the fans singing so passionately about Mourinho or van Gaal. For a broad part of the fans it would just feel differently if Ole won something with United. That would add something special. And that, of course, is based in emotions. But what was football without those emotions.

But there are rational reasons for keeping Ole. An established superstar with millions of followers on ShapChat (and therefor is dying his hair every week), someone who will always be associated with the club he just left: he will not be signed. Instead Ole will sign (or breed) someone that will be happy to build his career at United. A United player. Not a Juventus player ending his career in Manchester. It´s just that you may have to wait a bit for that player. Or you can force the manager to sign Bale and Erikson in January for short time gain, and to save him his job. Or sack him, and leave his follower with a bunch of very disappointed Manchester United players.

Great post.

I will be very happy to be on the right side of history in 5 years time when everyone’s all aboard the Ole train.

If the players are buying into his management, I have no doubts about him being the right man.
 
9gpqoy39ak341.png
 
I think we’re going to be largely inconsistent, and basically see more of what we’ve already seen until we have a chance to reinforce the squad. The most telling thing for me though is that all the players clearly do believe in him, which is half the battle.
This is it really, the team is clearly one that excels when space is provided. It's no coincidence we do much better against the bigger teams because they allow us more room to counter attack.

We need to recruit wisely, and pick some players that are technically sound but can also run. Mata is the right kind of player, but we need a Mata with legs. Wingers who can attack people individually and cross/score by themselves.

Until that point though we will continue to struggle agaainst teams who don't want to attack us.
 
That's fantastic, shows we're more than capable of competing with the best on our day.

What's even more surprising to me is how poor Chelsea have been against the other top 6, perhaps flattering to deceive this season?
 
That's fantastic, shows we're more than capable of competing with the best on our day.

What's even more surprising to me is how poor Chelsea have been against the other top 6, perhaps flattering to deceive this season?
More than anything, it shows how being good against the poor sides is much more important than being good against the top sides, considering the teams' respective league positions.

Which is why I'm still not utterly convinced by Ole, but after this week I'm more inclined to give him past the January window to see if he can strengthen in a meaningful way. Over to Ed, I suppose.
 
More than anything, it shows how being good against the poor sides is much more important than being good against the top sides, considering the teams' respective league positions.

Which is why I'm still not utterly convinced by Ole, but after this week I'm more inclined to give him past the January window to see if he can strengthen in a meaningful way. Over to Ed, I suppose.
Tactics can only take you so far.

Against deep lying teams you rely on individual talent, quick thinking and skill to create something out of nothing.

Obviously you can help setup a team similar to Guardiola/Klopp that will improve your chances, but they've also got fantastic attacking players with very good movement.

Our squad just aren't naturals in that sense, but I feel with time we will improve that. We're starting to get that aura back we once had IMO.
 
More than anything, it shows how being good against the poor sides is much more important than being good against the top sides, considering the teams' respective league positions.

Which is why I'm still not utterly convinced by Ole, but after this week I'm more inclined to give him past the January window to see if he can strengthen in a meaningful way. Over to Ed, I suppose.

Exact same opinion. All well and good getting these 2 fantastic results - but we need to see gameplans and performances that see us get results against the so called bottom 10 teams. We are too predictable at the moment - sit back and defend, leave us have the ball as we cant break you down. This is Ole's biggest hurdle. We are playing a few of these teams over the festive period so we shall see.

Against teams that go at us, we have that space to operate in - 10 or 11 behind the ball is out biggest issue.
 
Does my head in how We managed to beat all the top teams but not the mid-low table ones.

There are a couple of obvious explanations:
* Lack of creativity from midfield.
* Injuries.
* Missing penalties.
* Wastefullness in front of goal.

Against Spurs and City, United had 10/11 first team players.
 
Tactics can only take you so far.

Against deep lying teams you rely on individual talent, quick thinking and skill to create something out of nothing.

Obviously you can help setup a team similar to Guardiola/Klopp that will improve your chances, but they've also got fantastic attacking players with very good movement.

Our squad just aren't naturals in that sense, but I feel with time we will improve that. We're starting to get that aura back we once had IMO.
I refuse to believe that the amount of tap-ins that City score is only to do with individual quality.

They have a gameplan designed to free up space for Sterling on the wing to square it, and they have an alternative plan of going with the deep cross from KdB if the opponents completely flood the inside channels. Their entire play is set up to create those opportunities for themselves.

I'm seeing no such thing with us. We have no set patterns, we just give the ball to James/Rashford/Martial and hope they can make something happen, which is fine if you have that individual quality all across the pitch. Missing one out of 4/5 players in our squad completely neuters our play, which isn't good enough. I mean, a couple of weeks ago we were lamenting the loss of Martial, then it was Scott McTominay. I really like him and I think he's turning into a fine player, but losing him shouldn't render our team useless.

I agree with our team 'not being naturals'. That's what coaching is there for. They're still professional footballers so you'd think they'd be able to learn something if taught. For example, Dan James has been here for half a year now. He's shown himself to be very good at getting the ball in between the defenders and the goalkeeper. Not once have we scored from a situation like that due to the attackers not attacking that space. With proper coaching, the attackers should've learnt by now that they have to attack that space as soon as James shifts the ball onto his right foot, or even before that, in order to get to the near post ahead of the defenders. But they don't. They just keep chilling out by the penalty spot. I can't think that our players are so thick that they can't understand being told either to a) "Attack the near post when James is on the ball"
or b) "Dan, don't put the ball in behind the defenders, put it in towards the penalty spot", which leads me to the conclusion that we're still at the "give the ball to x and hope he makes something good out of it and that the others are thinking the same thing at the same time" stage of our evolution as a team, a full one year into Ole's reign.
 
And I ask back my question: do you believe tactically, Sam and Ole play the same way?!? You really do?

I didn’t know Sam was very much into counter pressing with a focus on cutting the opposition midfield options to force long balls and get the ball back at the first or second ball, or an adept of attacking with a forward line of 4 with roles to break the CB line, etc... I learn everyday. I never knew Sam was that interesting tactically. Does he also use his b2b midfielders to cover half spaces like us?



If you're so obsessed with Sam Allardyce's tactics why don't you just marry him?
 
To be fair we've started to score against the weaker sides recently.

3 v Norwich
3 v Brighton
3 v Sheffield United
2 v Villa

We just happened to draw 2 of these games because Pereira was completely incapable of doing McTominays job and we were left wide open. If Scott had not got his injury we'd likely be on a superb run and 1 point off 4th.

There is progress being made in our ability to break teams down. People just don't seem to have noticed because it didn't always lead to wins.
 
To be fair we've started to score against the weaker sides recently.

3 v Norwich
3 v Brighton
3 v Sheffield United
2 v Villa

We just happened to draw 2 of these games because Pereira was completely incapable of doing McTominays job and we were left wide open. If Scott had not got his injury we'd likely be on a superb run and 1 point off 4th.

There is progress being made in our ability to break teams down. People just don't seem to have noticed because it didn't always lead to wins.

2.5 average for the last 6 is pretty good
 
If you're so obsessed with Sam Allardyce's tactics why don't you just marry him?
You’re the one who said Sam would get the same results as Ole when talking about Ole being tactically inept so... if that’s the case, I’d like to understand how Sam would do that, since for me, Ole’s tactics has nothing to do with Sam’s and there’s no way Sam Allardyce’s would get the kind of results vs top teams. And that’s where tactics matters.

Anyway, if there’s no similarities in their tactics, we can safely say that Ole is doing well and has something Sam Allardyce doesn’t have. In this case, your whole post was useless.

Should you want to prove that wrong, I expect you to put exactly how Sam Allardyce plays and why that would get us the same results vs top teams and the same ranking, results with this team, as that’s your affirmation.
 
I know it´s cool to be negative, but feck that. Five winnable games.

I am pretty positive. I did think we would beat City. Although 5 more wins in a row is probably not going to happen over christmas. Our squad is thin and we can't rotate that much and we also struggle against defensive sides.
 
I refuse to believe that the amount of tap-ins that City score is only to do with individual quality.

They have a gameplan designed to free up space for Sterling on the wing to square it, and they have an alternative plan of going with the deep cross from KdB if the opponents completely flood the inside channels. Their entire play is set up to create those opportunities for themselves.

I'm seeing no such thing with us. We have no set patterns, we just give the ball to James/Rashford/Martial and hope they can make something happen, which is fine if you have that individual quality all across the pitch. Missing one out of 4/5 players in our squad completely neuters our play, which isn't good enough. I mean, a couple of weeks ago we were lamenting the loss of Martial, then it was Scott McTominay. I really like him and I think he's turning into a fine player, but losing him shouldn't render our team useless.

I agree with our team 'not being naturals'. That's what coaching is there for. They're still professional footballers so you'd think they'd be able to learn something if taught. For example, Dan James has been here for half a year now. He's shown himself to be very good at getting the ball in between the defenders and the goalkeeper. Not once have we scored from a situation like that due to the attackers not attacking that space. With proper coaching, the attackers should've learnt by now that they have to attack that space as soon as James shifts the ball onto his right foot, or even before that, in order to get to the near post ahead of the defenders. But they don't. They just keep chilling out by the penalty spot. I can't think that our players are so thick that they can't understand being told either to a) "Attack the near post when James is on the ball"
or b) "Dan, don't put the ball in behind the defenders, put it in towards the penalty spot", which leads me to the conclusion that we're still at the "give the ball to x and hope he makes something good out of it and that the others are thinking the same thing at the same time" stage of our evolution as a team, a full one year into Ole's reign.

We have actually. Rashford scored vs Liverpool from a cross from James that went behind their defense and another one vs Brigton although that was a cutback, as was the third goal vs Sheffield. Second goal vs Sheffield was also a pass between keeper and defense although that came from further out and not from the touchline. Rashford should also really had another one vs Brighton when James feinted a cross and left their CB on his arse only for Rashford to miss an open goal from 5 yards out

And there have been loads more of those crosses that only need a touch and its a goal. Ole and Phelan should not need to tell the players they need to get their arses inside the box to finish those tap ins, they know it damn well themselves, its more a matter of Rashford/Martial smelling those chances when they arrive.

I love Martial, but he never scores any easy goals it seems. Every goal he has scored this season has weaved past 2-3 players and/or had a cracking finish
 
You’re the one who said Sam would get the same results as Ole when talking about Ole being tactically inept so... if that’s the case, I’d like to understand how Sam would do that, since for me, Ole’s tactics has nothing to do with Sam’s and there’s no way Sam Allardyce’s would get the kind of results vs top teams. And that’s where tactics matters.

Anyway, if there’s no similarities in their tactics, we can safely say that Ole is doing well and has something Sam Allardyce doesn’t have. In this case, your whole post was useless.

Should you want to prove that wrong, I expect you to put exactly how Sam Allardyce plays and why that would get us the same results vs top teams and the same ranking, results with this team, as that’s your affirmation.


Are you STILL banging on about Sam Allardyce?
 
We have actually. Rashford scored vs Liverpool from a cross from James that went behind their defense and another one vs Brigton although that was a cutback, as was the third goal vs Sheffield. Second goal vs Sheffield was also a pass between keeper and defense although that came from further out and not from the touchline. Rashford should also really had another one vs Brighton when James feinted a cross and left their CB on his arse only for Rashford to miss an open goal from 5 yards out

And there have been loads more of those crosses that only need a touch and its a goal. Ole and Phelan should not need to tell the players they need to get their arses inside the box to finish those tap ins, they know it damn well themselves, its more a matter of Rashford/Martial smelling those chances when they arrive.

I love Martial, but he never scores any easy goals it seems. Every goal he has scored this season has weaved past 2-3 players and/or had a cracking finish
Thanks for reminding me. Yeah, we have scored a few of those goals, the Liverpool one being more of a counter-attack and deep cross if I had to categorize it, but my general feeling is that we could've had so many more from balls just fizzing across the six yard box without anyone there.

Our players not having that instinct is fine though, but for the coaching team to not recognize that and tell them how they want them to play is poor. The situation where the ball goes one way and the player the other should really not be a thing. I don't know, they could tell James to call out 'giraffe' and that signals to Martial to go near post, and if he wants to go penalty spot he could call out 'elephant'. I don't know, I'm not a coach, but surely they should be able to communicate where they want the ball or where they're going to put the ball?
 
Are you STILL banging on about Sam Allardyce?
Here's a question, do you think Sam Allardyce would get similar results with this team? Because, and I'm not trying to cause conflict or provoke arguments here mate - I genuinely think he would have us around 6th. Sam Allardyce is a very limited, borderline poor manager but one thing Sam Allardyce can do is grind out results and get the team behind as a good man manager. One of the lads. What is so different about that, than what Ole is doing at the moment? I'll clue you in mate, don't worry - Sam Allardyce never played for us.

You're the one who mentioned Sam Allardyce as being tactically the same as Ole... the onus is on you to provide insight on what you see in his tactics that make him even remotely comparable to Ole's current United tactics. You still have not answered one bit about it. Not one bit.
 
So how does this ‘tactically inept’ manager beat Mourinho and Guardiola in the space of five days? They must be very tactically inept, then?
I think you've misunderstood the criticism completely. The finger was pointed at being able to break down defensive sides that are outside the top six with consistency...the kind of teams that get brushed aside by any title winning team.
 
We have actually. Rashford scored vs Liverpool from a cross from James that went behind their defense and another one vs Brigton although that was a cutback, as was the third goal vs Sheffield. Second goal vs Sheffield was also a pass between keeper and defense although that came from further out and not from the touchline. Rashford should also really had another one vs Brighton when James feinted a cross and left their CB on his arse only for Rashford to miss an open goal from 5 yards out

And there have been loads more of those crosses that only need a touch and its a goal. Ole and Phelan should not need to tell the players they need to get their arses inside the box to finish those tap ins, they know it damn well themselves, its more a matter of Rashford/Martial smelling those chances when they arrive.

I love Martial, but he never scores any easy goals it seems. Every goal he has scored this season has weaved past 2-3 players and/or had a cracking finish
That's one of the big double standards I'm seeing here now. During our dull and poor form with Jose, it was a common point that he apparently "didn't coach the team to attack". That it was just left to them. Kept seeing people want his head because a Manchester United manager needs to coach exactly that.

But lo and behold it's not a coaching issue now that our forwards are constantly missing in the box when Daniel James (really not anyone else doing it with any frequency to make me think it's coached) keeps putting dangerous balls into the area.
 
I think you've misunderstood the criticism completely. The finger was pointed at being able to break down defensive sides that are outside the top six with consistency...the kind of teams that get brushed aside by any title winning team.

Your criticism might have limited itself to that consistently, maybe. But I have very distinct recollection of reading a good bunch of ‘tactically clueless’ and the like in here, in more general terms.

Either way, you simply cannot take this United squad and beat Spurs 1-0, Arsenal 3-1, Chelsea 2-0, PSG 3-1, Chelsea 4-0, Leicester 1-0, Spurs 2-1 and City 2-1 whilst drawing twice with Liverpool, by being tactically clueless. It’s just impossible, and very irritating to keep having to read. But I guess that’s internet democracy for you.
 
Your criticism might have limited itself to that consistently, maybe. But I have very distinct recollection of reading a good bunch of ‘tactically clueless’ and the like in here, in more general terms.

Either way, you simply cannot take this United squad and beat Spurs 1-0, Arsenal 3-1, Chelsea 2-0, PSG 3-1, Chelsea 4-0, Leicester 1-0, Spurs 2-1 and City 2-1 whilst drawing twice with Liverpool, by being tactically clueless. It’s just impossible, and very irritating to keep having to read. But I guess that’s internet democracy for you.
Yeah, a bit of extremism from both sides. As someone that's still very unsure about Ole even after two wonderful wins, it's equally frustrating to see threads and posts claiming that those that doubt are bad fans.

As with most things, it's probably somewhere in between. And maybe that's what's hard: we're taking a team and fanbase that's used to winning, mismanaging it to an extreme that's made players and fans alike distraught (Woodward is the virus), and asking them after 7 years of missteps to be patient enough to let a young manager learn the ropes and hope that his optimism and deep understanding of the club culture are enough to take us back to the level we expect. And let's be clear, based on his managerial experience, Ole is not qualified for this job. So it's a big leap and only fair to have doubters and quite expected that they/we are a bit exaggerated in our criticism when we've really not performed well enough until these two big victories.

Ole's going to have to earn respect as manager. Just as any player that comes in.
 
This is it really, the team is clearly one that excels when space is provided. It's no coincidence we do much better against the bigger teams because they allow us more room to counter attack.

We need to recruit wisely, and pick some players that are technically sound but can also run. Mata is the right kind of player, but we need a Mata with legs. Wingers who can attack people individually and cross/score by themselves.

Until that point though we will continue to struggle agaainst teams who don't want to attack us.

this is my belief. Regardless of manager, our personnel atm doesnt contain that player who can pick a pass or through ball or float one in behind for a runner. When we face two banks of four we tend to play side to side without threatening. James martial and rashford can be static at this point as well though as martials goal showed against city they are getting better at these tight interplays and give and gos between them.

at least ole has got us playing more modern football with the interchangeable front 3. We forget what a young team we have so should expect some inconsistency. I like whats happened with the squad - the shit we have been begging for the club to get rid of for years is steadily getting flushed away. The ones that remain- Rojo and Jones etc are not getting played and are peripheral as they should be.
 
It is the defence Ole needs to fix it, losing McTominay and Pogba same time didn't help.

Poch win percentage against Top 6 is 28% compared to Ole's 24 out of 33 possible points. Once we get 1 or 2 creative players we can look at breaking down lower teams and find a way to get more points.

So I would give him until end of this season with a couple of Jan signings and see if he can get consistent results
 
That's one of the big double standards I'm seeing here now. During our dull and poor form with Jose, it was a common point that he apparently "didn't coach the team to attack". That it was just left to them. Kept seeing people want his head because a Manchester United manager needs to coach exactly that.

But lo and behold it's not a coaching issue now that our forwards are constantly missing in the box when Daniel James (really not anyone else doing it with any frequency to make me think it's coached) keeps putting dangerous balls into the area.

This isolted? Yes i will say its not so much a coaching issues. The chances are being created, the onus is then on the strikers to finish those tap ins. Rashford and Martial are not thick, they know they should be there to finish those chances. Under Jose one of the the big debates was whether or not Lukaku was getting service. Now grated, he was not swimming in chances, but how many times did we not see him stand still, flailing his arms and pointing to his feet after the play went by him? We did not create loads, but his movement was still shite and Lukaku got the dogs abuse because of it.

Movement and anticipation is often what separates 15 goals/season strikers from 25/goals season ones. Martial is incredibly talented, but hes not exactly a poacher, pretty far from it. He never scores easy goals it seems, only worldies like he did on Saturday. Hernandez for example was the opposite. Very limited player, but his movement and instinct was top notch and he would always be at the right place at the right time

To be fair, coaching can improve this and i hope they work on it, but regarding movement, anticipation and strikers instinct i would say individual talent plays a bigger part
 
So how does this ‘tactically inept’ manager beat Mourinho and Guardiola in the space of five days? They must be very tactically inept, then?
He didnt do anything tactically different. to when we drawed 2 games before that. When Ole was actually required to use tactics and ingame management it nearly cost us the match (negative subsitution of Periera and leaving us with no striker). There was no tactical masterclass by Ole, but the styles made the match. We were all wrong for stylistically for Tottenham and Man City. He deserves to be credited for putting Rashford and Martial in their right positions, Getting Fred playing well (and even that I still wonder that it was Pogba getting injured and Matic being awful that forced him to use him), the general mood in the team (it appears like all the players are playing for him) and for shipping off some deadwoods.

Tactically hes not very good. Otherwise we wouldve seen a system being implemented with consistentcy - week in and week out. 1 year I would think is more than enough time to do so.
 
He didnt do anything tactically different. to when we drawed 2 games before that. When Ole was actually required to use tactics and ingame management it nearly cost us the match (negative subsitution of Periera and leaving us with no striker). There was no tactical masterclass by Ole, but the styles made the match. We were all wrong for stylistically for Tottenham and Man City. He deserves to be credited for putting Rashford and Martial in their right positions, Getting Fred playing well (and even that I still wonder that it was Pogba getting injured and Matic being awful that forced him to use him), the general mood in the team (it appears like all the players are playing for him) and for shipping off some deadwoods.

Tactically hes not very good. Otherwise we wouldve seen a system being implemented with consistentcy - week in and week out. 1 year I would think is more than enough time to do so.

That's not true at all. We were good against Liverpool too nullifying their threat. We struggled to beat smaller clubs but doesn't mean we weren't tactically good vs top teams.
 
One of the intangibles with ole in charge is just how much the team seems to be backing him. Despite the lack of quality in the squad, they are very visibly fighting for him, so he's certainly doing something right.

Not to mention the match going fans seem to be staunchly behind him. If the results pick up in a similar fashion in the way they have and we are still fighting for top four come April, then there is no way ole is sacked in the summer.
 
One of the intangibles with ole in charge is just how much the team seems to be backing him. Despite the lack of quality in the squad, they are very visibly fighting for him, so he's certainly doing something right.

Not to mention the match going fans seem to be staunchly behind him. If the results pick up in a similar fashion in the way they have and we are still fighting for top four come April, then there is no way ole is sacked in the summer.

This is hard to ignore for me, they're clearly all behind him, well the ones who are playing anyway. Seems the spirit is good which is important after the Jose period.
 
Could someone list the players who didn't back our previous managers and therefore didn't give their all?
Even Pogba's form has seen no difference. He was blowing hot and cold like under the current manager.
Seems like nothing else than an another invented scoring point for Ole.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.