Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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abdo99 said:
He didnt do anything tactically different. to when we drawed 2 games before that. When Ole was actually required to use tactics and ingame management it nearly cost us the match (negative subsitution of Periera and leaving us with no striker). There was no tactical masterclass by Ole, but the styles made the match. We were all wrong for stylistically for Tottenham and Man City. He deserves to be credited for putting Rashford and Martial in their right positions, Getting Fred playing well (and even that I still wonder that it was Pogba getting injured and Matic being awful that forced him to use him), the general mood in the team (it appears like all the players are playing for him) and for shipping off some deadwoods.

Tactically hes not very good. Otherwise we wouldve seen a system being implemented with consistentcy - week in and week out. 1 year I would think is more than enough time to do so.
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So beating the best teams in the country is not tactically aware but drawing at home to Villa and away to Sheffield is become he has no tactics?

Come on, if the games Vs bigger teams were a style match, many of the teams in the bottom half would be beating them because they are used to playing on the counter.

Let me put it this way, no other team has taken points of Liverpool except us.

Even Pep Guardiola with his squad struggles with injuries to beat teams and win consistently. Lets be honest, Ole hasnt had the tools to work with yet. We have 3 Midfielders.
 
Volumiza said:
I’ve always felt Ole was well out of his depth and I still stand by that ... but

There’s two ways out of being out of your depth, one way is to drown completely and the other is to learn to swim pretty bloody quickly!

If the last few weeks are anything to go by, it seems as if there is a possibility that Ole is capable of doing the latter. All my fingers and toes are crossed for him.
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If you are capable of beating all the best teams in the division - how can you be out of your depth ? You can criticize him for not getting enough Points, for not lifting the players enough when playing lesser teams - or for not signing enough good players to break them down.

But the out of his depth-thing will just sound stupid to say about a guy who is capable of beating Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, City and drawing to Liverpool
 
lysglimt said:
If you are capable of beating all the best teams in the division - how can you be out of your depth ? You can criticize him for not getting enough Points, for not lifting the players enough when playing lesser teams - or for not signing enough good players to break them down.

But the out of his depth-thing will just sound stupid to say about a guy who is capable of beating Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, City and drawing to Liverpool
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It is an interesting point because weve heard how it's all down to the squad not Ole's coaching. Well how can a squad capable of taking points off all of the big teams be SO bad that we can#t scrape victories over teams such as Crystal Palace, West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheff Utd?

Quite simply, they are not being coached well enough to break down these type of teams. If Ole doesn't learn to do so, we'll still trudge through the season going W-L-D-D-L-W because the big games only warrant about 30points a season remember. So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
 
lysglimt said:
If you are capable of beating all the best teams in the division - how can you be out of your depth ? You can criticize him for not getting enough Points, for not lifting the players enough when playing lesser teams - or for not signing enough good players to break them down.

But the out of his depth-thing will just sound stupid to say about a guy who is capable of beating Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, City and drawing to Liverpool
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Not out of depth, just need to figure out how to beat defensive teams with his current players. If He thinks He doesn't have enough personnel to do it then He should sign one or two players, if We want to secure top 4.
 
lysglimt said:
If you are capable of beating all the best teams in the division - how can you be out of your depth ? You can criticize him for not getting enough Points, for not lifting the players enough when playing lesser teams - or for not signing enough good players to break them down.

But the out of his depth-thing will just sound stupid to say about a guy who is capable of beating Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, City and drawing to Liverpool
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I'm not actually criticising him. Cardif (relegated) to Molde to Man utd, there can be no doubt that jump in size of clubs is enough for any manager to struggle with and I think he has, or seemed, at times looked out of his depth.

Like I said in my post, two ways out and wouldn't be brilliant if he go to grips with it all and turned us back in to challengers? I know I hope that's the case.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
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I don't think it's a case of being able to beat big or small teams, it's more we struggle to break teams down that pack players tight into midfield and defence. We look much better when we have space to move the ball and counter than we do when trying to find a way through well drilled and compact teams.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It is an interesting point because weve heard how it's all down to the squad not Ole's coaching. Well how can a squad capable of taking points off all of the big teams be SO bad that we can#t scrape victories over teams such as Crystal Palace, West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheff Utd?

Quite simply, they are not being coached well enough to break down these type of teams. If Ole doesn't learn to do so, we'll still trudge through the season going W-L-D-D-L-W because the big games only warrant about 30points a season remember. So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
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Maybe Ole has prioritized planning for the bigger games to make the players believe they can beat anyone?
 
Volumiza said:
I don't think it's a case of being able to beat big or small teams, it's more we struggle to break teams down that pack players tight into midfield and defence. We look much better when we have space to move the ball and counter than we do when trying to find a way through well drilled and compact teams.
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and its been an issue we've struggled with for many years, hell going back to when Fergie was in charge it was often an issue.
 
ReddBalls said:
Maybe Ole has prioritized planning for the bigger games to make the players believe they can beat anyone?
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If that is what he's doing, then he's hamstringing himself and our own season by not preparing to take points off teams like bloody Newcastle. Which would make sense because you know, one of the big critiques of our players is that 'they act like they don't need to turn up/work hard against the small teams'. Like its beneath them. Well, that'd make sense if they were being trained as such neglecting the smaller games.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
If that is what he's doing, then he's hamstringing himself and our own season by not preparing to take points off teams like bloody Newcastle. Which would make sense because you know, one of the big critiques of our players is that 'they act like they don't need to turn up/work hard against the small teams'. Like its beneath them. Well, that'd make sense if they were being trained as such neglecting the smaller games.
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I would hope even the most staunch Ole out supporter wouldn't really believe that this was some kind of strategy. A quick look at our squad will identify a lack of attacking players with that ability to unpick a lock. Mata could do it but he is past his best. Its the player we need now above all else. A creative number 10 followed by a poacher would solve many of these issues and win us many more points a season. Obviously a lot depends on what Pogba is doing.

Of course the detractors will argue that a top coach should be moulding this current group of players into one that can achieve that without the need for any additions. This is arguable, however you rarely if ever see any club at the top level dominating and winning trophies without buying the players they need to implement their strategy.
 
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Gomes said:
Could someone list the players who didn't back our previous managers and therefore didn't give their all?
Even Pogba's form has seen no difference. He was blowing hot and cold like under the current manager.
Seems like nothing else than an another invented scoring point for Ole.
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Have you seen the players running with that much spirit and intend in the final third in the last 6 years? That’s SAF level of intensity and commitment. Only possible if you go for everything you have in your body and soul. Ole’s able to get that for all games? Then this team will be very special and the other so called good teams will freak out when they play us.
 
Bilbo said:
I would hope even the most staunch Ole out supporter wouldn't really believe that this was some kind of strategy. A quick look at our squad will identify a lack of attacking players with that ability to unpick a lock. Mata could do it but he is past his best. Its the player we need now above all else. A creative number 10 followed by a poacher would solve many of these issues and win us many more points a season. Obviously a lot depends on what Pogba is doing.

Of course the detractors will argue that a top coach should be moulding this current group of players into one that can achieve that without the need for any additions. This is arguable, however you rarely if ever see any club at the top level dominating and winning trophies without buying the players they need to implement their strategy.
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Not to mention the amount of injuries we've been coping with, including our most creative player for most of the season.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
If that is what he's doing, then he's hamstringing himself and our own season by not preparing to take points off teams like bloody Newcastle. Which would make sense because you know, one of the big critiques of our players is that 'they act like they don't need to turn up/work hard against the small teams'. Like its beneath them. Well, that'd make sense if they were being trained as such neglecting the smaller games.
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Any strategic decision is always risk vs. reward. Prioritizing the big games at the start of the season to raise the confidence in the players would reap bigger rewards than vice versa. No one expects United to challenge this seaon anyway.

Anyhow, we don't know if that is what he has been doing. The bad results are more likely due to a new composition of the first eleven and injuries.
 
Bilbo said:
I would hope even the most staunch Ole out supporter wouldn't really believe that this was some kind of strategy. A quick look at our squad will identify a lack of attacking players with that ability to unpick a lock. Mata could do it but he is past his best. Its the player we need now above all else. A creative number 10 followed by a poacher would solve many of these issues and win us many more points a season. Obviously a lot depends on what Pogba is doing.

Of course the detractors will argue that a top coach should be moulding this current group of players into one that can achieve that without the need for any additions. This is arguable, however you rarely if ever see any club at the top level dominating and winning trophies without buying the players they need to implement their strategy.
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Yep, its a very basic issue within the squad - we literally have the worst possible options for #10 of any major club and play a system that, in such games against low-blocks, needs the #10 to be on fire.

If we weren't relying on Mata, Lingard, Pereira as our options there we'd be doing much better. But Ole was happy with those three, remember - personally I think he's just massively over-rated his squad. Hopefully that's no longer the case.
 
Judas said:
and its been an issue we've struggled with for many years, hell going back to when Fergie was in charge it was often an issue.
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This is kind of true no doubt but I don't think anyone would argue in me saying we had a better team and more players able to dig us out of a hole.
 
Gasolin said:
Have you seen the players running with that much spirit and intend in the final third in the last 6 years? That’s SAF level of intensity and commitment. Only possible if you go for everything you have in your body and soul. Ole’s able to get that for all games? Then this team will be very special and the other so called good teams will freak out when they play us.
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The LVG games against the big teams usually resulted in that, the distance covered and the tackling and pressing was fantastic in most cases. The 1-0 against City at their place was actually pretty similar performance wise to the 2-1 we saw last week (this one was better but still)

I know people don't have fond memories of him (and for good reason in a lot of respects) but he tried to implement a lot of the things people are praising Ole for.E.g go back and look at how many kids he gave chances in the team, how he performed in big games, how he talked about changing the philosophy of the club ('culture-Ole') and how it was a process ('it takes time'-Ole). Difference is LVG valued possession based football with more emphasis on ball retention, whereas Ole favours the counter attack and speed.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It is an interesting point because weve heard how it's all down to the squad not Ole's coaching. Well how can a squad capable of taking points off all of the big teams be SO bad that we can#t scrape victories over teams such as Crystal Palace, West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheff Utd?

Quite simply, they are not being coached well enough to break down these type of teams. If Ole doesn't learn to do so, we'll still trudge through the season going W-L-D-D-L-W because the big games only warrant about 30points a season remember. So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
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The truth is probably a mixture of things
1) Lack of depth. When we had injures the back ups are a massive downgrade compared to the first choice
2) No good #10 and little creation from central areas means opponents can pack their own box and flood the wings to shut us down
3) Oles tactics are poorly suited to parked buses. He needs to change it up
4) Our most threatening players (Rashford, James, Martial) are all more comfortable in more open ended games

Its also worth noting the trouble has not been so much lack of goals, as there has only been three games (B'mouth, Newcastle and West Ham) where we failed to score, but more that we took the lead and then fecked up in defense rather than capitalize and hit them on the break when they were forced to attack
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It is an interesting point because weve heard how it's all down to the squad not Ole's coaching. Well how can a squad capable of taking points off all of the big teams be SO bad that we can#t scrape victories over teams such as Crystal Palace, West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheff Utd?

Quite simply, they are not being coached well enough to break down these type of teams. If Ole doesn't learn to do so, we'll still trudge through the season going W-L-D-D-L-W because the big games only warrant about 30points a season remember. So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
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I think there are a lot of possible explanations:

1) Some of the players gear up against the top-teams but don't against Villa or Sheffield United - is that a mental thing, inexperience - is it poor management from OGS ? Impossible to know.

2) We lack creativity. James and Lingard especially are better in space - which they don't get against smaller clubs backing off. Would the problem be solved with an in-form Pogba ? Probably in quite a few games

3) We lack physical presence in the box. In many games you need a scrappy goal to open the game up - Maguire hasn't been that threat at set-pieces we had hoped, same with McTominay - and apart from those 2, there aren't that many others. Fellaini had his obvious faults - but he was good at finishing off opponents in games like that. Having said that, he is too stationary to play for this United-team and would probably not be satisfied being a super-sub

4) Lack of understanding due to injuries - we are better now than we were 6 weeks ago. Regardless of how much one disapproves of OGS as manager, it is not possible to deny that we are a lot better today than we were 6 weeks ago. Mostly down to Martials return, Rashford hitting for, Lingard looking like a footballer - and most of all Fred and McTominays rapid improvment. Would we have lost all those with this team ? I am convinced we wouldn't have.

5) Thin squad - we can't replace tired players with players almost as good, and maybe that has an effect against "worse" opposition when it's a bit harder to really give 100%

6) Your explanation is another one

So of course - if he can't teach the kids to beat the smaller teams - he will eventually get sacked. But what he has shown against Brighton, Norwich, Spurs and City would have been good enough to win every single game we lost, it's just a question of getting the players to perform close to that level more often. But I am convinced we will get there, but we are of course 2-3 players short, and a year or two of experience short.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Yep, its a very basic issue within the squad - we literally have the worst possible options for #10 of any major club and play a system that, in such games against low-blocks, needs the #10 to be on fire.

If we weren't relying on Mata, Lingard, Pereira as our options there we'd be doing much better. But Ole was happy with those three, remember - personally I think he's just massively over-rated his squad. Hopefully that's no longer the case.
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I don't think he was happy with those options. Its been widely rumoured that we moved for Eriksen but he wanted out of the PL.

I think its difficult and somewhat foolish for any manager to claim publicly that he isn't happy with his squad. Saying anything other than 'I'm satisfied' only implies that he doesn't think those three are good enough which will only hurt the players and the team. I suspect his conversations with Woodward behind closed doors were quite different.
 
Irwin99 said:
The LVG games against the big teams usually resulted in that, the distance covered and the tackling and pressing was fantastic in most cases. The 1-0 against City at their place was actually pretty similar performance wise to the 2-1 we saw last week (this one was better but still)

I know people don't have fond memories of him (and for good reason in a lot of respects) but he tried to implement a lot of the things people are praising Ole for.E.g go back and look at how many kids he gave chances in the team, how he performed in big games, how he talked about changing the philosophy of the club ('culture-Ole') and how it was a process ('it takes time'-Ole). Difference is LVG valued possession based football with more emphasis on ball retention, whereas Ole favours the counter attack and speed.
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I disagree. LVG is a good tactician, no disrespect here, but he wanted Herrera to control a ball before shooting, and everything had to be the same as in the training, at the closest mm. No creativity, more mechanical moves. But he slowed down the game.

I insist that this is not us because that's not how we like to play.

LVG has bought some interesting stuff too. With him, Smalling had some games when he would push up the whole defensive line to compress the middle zone and deny the gap with the midfield even when we lost the ball, so that the other team is either force to play long behind, risking losing it, or go back. So not everything was bad with LVG and he was clearly a superior tactician, a purist in football.

Right now, we have a play that is very strong in intend but its focus is to disturb the opposition with pace and speed, no matter what. That would not be LVG like. Also, as mentioned, Liverpool and City did not play as they play today.
 
ReddBalls said:
Any strategic decision is always risk vs. reward. Prioritizing the big games at the start of the season to raise the confidence in the players would reap bigger rewards than vice versa. No one expects United to challenge this seaon anyway.

Anyhow, we don't know if that is what he has been doing. The bad results are more likely due to a new composition of the first eleven and injuries.
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What does this even mean?
 
There are a few things OGS has done very well, so I'm willing to give him time and couple more transfer windows:
  • Improved existing players - Martial, Rashford, McT, Fred have improved massively. Pogba too had his best form under Ole and if it wasn't for injuries he would've been at the top of the list. The only players who regressed are the aging ones who have been on a long slide, like Matic and Mata. Can't remember any of our post-SAF managers improving players to such extent, maybe one or two players under Jose for a short period. LVG and Jose relied on a disciplined team approach, not so much on improving individual players.
  • Integrated seamlessly the newly signed players. All 3 of his signings hit the ground running and are some of our best players now. This has been a huge problem post-SAF. Moyes, LVG and Jose signed a total of 26 players and only 3-4 of them got integrated well, most of the others were a total disaster.
  • Promoted youth. We have the youngest team in the PL currently. LGV deserves massive praise for Rashford and Jose for McT, but overall their use of youth was much more patchy, and it felt more like a test and if they failed, they got discarded, while with Ole you could see the desire to improve these young players overtime and integrate them into the first team. The benefits of promoting youth will be seen for many years in the future.
  • Created a team that's very strong against the top teams. This is a very important quality, without it it's practically impossible to be a successful and win trophies. Moyes and Jose had much worse records, and only LVG had a decent record against the top teams.
  • Got rid of the right deadwood. Moyes, LVG and Jose made a lot of mistakes in getting rid of the wrong players and persisting with inferior ones. It's still early to judge Ole on this, but I think in the log run I think Ole's strategy would benefit us much more.
The only negatives so far are the fact that we are quite inconsistent and that we struggle against inferior teams who park the bus. Both of these will improve - inconsistency is normal for such a young team and especially if we add 2-3 more players in the next couple windows we will also improve our depth and our plan B for dealing with the low block.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It is an interesting point because weve heard how it's all down to the squad not Ole's coaching. Well how can a squad capable of taking points off all of the big teams be SO bad that we can#t scrape victories over teams such as Crystal Palace, West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Villa, Sheff Utd?

Quite simply, they are not being coached well enough to break down these type of teams. If Ole doesn't learn to do so, we'll still trudge through the season going W-L-D-D-L-W because the big games only warrant about 30points a season remember. So if Ole can't learn to beat the small teams, we're resigned to being a midtable team.
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The team has been lacking creativity with Pogba being injured. With almost no depth in midfield also do not help.

Ole has had one 1 window and all 3 buys have been great buys. If this continues we will be challenging in no time.

Not so long ago Liverpool were beating the big teams but having issues breaking down the small teams. You didint see their fans calling for Klopp`s head.

The football we are playing more and more now is so much more exciting than the three previous managers and we actually have a much clearer game plan and a clear plan on wich players we buy that actually fits into the team and still 50% of the supporters on Redcafe wants Ole gone. It really baffles me.
 
Judas said:
He has to be backed if we have any chance of being a true success under him. I'll be left completely bewildered, but also not surprised if the club lets him down in January.
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Back at the beginning of the summer window he was very open about getting a replacement for Lukaku and Sanchez were either to go. He didn't. He did take the fall for it and we started hearing the talk that these players weren't of the right fit culturally. Can't say for sure if that's covering for Woodward or actually the case.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Hurting? I’ve had a great week, my best week watching United for a long time, and I’m a season ticket holder.

What kind of weird, twisted, fecked up World do you live in where you think a United a) wouldn’t LOVE a week being Spurs/Mourinho at home and shitty away and b) doesn’t want Ole to succeed.
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You can't let a fart slip in the general direction of Old Trafford without there being an Ole out agenda mate.
 
Sorry for asking this in here bc I feel a bit of a pig but who s the absolutely stunning brunette journo who seems to be at most pressers and asked Ole a question again today?
 
Redplane said:
Sorry for asking this in here bc I feel a bit of a pig but who s the absolutely stunning brunette journo who seems to be at most pressers and asked Ole a question again today?
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I think it's Ingrid Halstensen.
 


Clearly didn't take anything away from what he read because the way we play is complete opposite to the way Pep plays.
 
VJ1762 said:


Clearly didn't take anything away from what he read because the way we play is complete opposite to the way Pep plays.
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Must disagree with this, he must take alot from what he read imho.
"Know thy self, know thy enemy." ;)
 
Sky1981 said:
So in other words complacency? I dont understand. So if it's a smaller team they spend less energy and time training and preparing?
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Complacency usually kicks in after you have achieved something, you know, like winning stuff. I suggested that they have prioritized preparing for the bigger games to make it more likely to win them, and make the players believe that they can beat anyway. It was just a thought anyways, but it's not crazy to suggest that a manager has to prioritize what they work on. Time is not an unlimited commodity.
 
We've no idea how to play if we don't have vast amounts of space in behind the opposition's defence. It's not a personel problem -- it's a coaching problem. If you can't see this, then you're seeing our situation through rose tinted specs.
 
We're just so bad in possession at times.

It's worrisome that this doesn't seem to be improving.
 
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