Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[ReddBalls]

If you have low expectations for the club and seem to be fine with what has been going on, fine. I think United should never be in such poor condition, no matter what. Ole unfortunately failed at too many things so far. He had a whole summer to work on fitness, but look what that brought us. Yes he is preferring senior players, only now that we have injuries he plays the youngsters. Or why is it that Gomes, Greenwood (our best young players in pre season) hardly played? There was a thread some time ago when he said playing youngsters was key to him yet there was only negative reactions on here as he did not really do so yet.

United has the youngest team in the prem. If they are ready, they'll play. Latest example being Williams. It's as if you don't actually watch the games. Regarding expectatons: It's delusional to believe that "a whole summer" is enough to undo the mess inherited from the last three managers, implement a new style, change the mentality and mount a title challenge. No one would be able to do that. Expectations are top 4 and hopefully a cup.

 

[TRUERED89]

When was the last time we dominated a game at Anfield or Stamford Bridge? That sure hasn't happened a lot...

LVG won there twice, 2-1, and 1-0. Liverpool hardly did a thing, Sturrige's consolation was a Jones/De Gea error, SAF last season at SB okay it was 3-2 but we battered them for about 65 mins!

 

[TRUERED89]

No history is being rewritten. We adapted to the games and played way more defensively in these games, especially in SAF's last seasons. Yesterday, we pressed high up the pitch all game, we didn't just sit back, and they couldn't deal with it. How is that playing like an "underdog"?

Errrm what? If you'd like a link to watch 2010/11-2011/12 and 2012-13 season reviews let me know. No way did we ever play scared defensive football not even at the Bernabeau against Jose's Real Madrid! Just stop it mate!

 

[ReddBalls]

Errrm what? If you'd like a link to watch 2010/11-2011/12 and 2012-13 season reviews let me know. No way did we ever play scared defensive football not even at the Bernabeau against Jose's Real Madrid! Just stop it mate!

Do you think United played scared defensive football against Chelsea this wednesday?

 

[Bobcat]

But we are Manchester we are not beggers. We pay ridiculously high wages for players and managers... so they should coincide. Clearly you can have bad football and good results I mean Mourinho has made a good career out of it and continues to get big jobs. We wouldn’t hire him otherwise.

Whilst I agree with your points on how the last 6 years went I don’t see why my expectations are suppose to drop when the only externalities I can see for this failing is Ole. For instance like you said if Mourinho had taken over after Fergie or in his second season with us was not against Pep, we would have won a title decides all the poor things that had happened before him. Likewise with Ole.. if he was a better manager we wouldn’t be sitting in 7th even with our current squad. We also would have brought a CM.

Now quite frankly he’s here to manager the club, I could give to hoots what he did in 99 when I am analysing his management. It doesn’t benefit me as a fan.

Im not saying this should be our level, i am just saying this is our level right now and when your two most important attacking threats get injured at the same time, you are bound to struggle a bit going forward. So its not about "making excuses" for Ole, its about admitting to the fact that his three predecessors failed to do the rebuild job they were hired to do, and ultimately left an even bigger mess than how it was when they arrived.

Thinking along the lines of "We are Manchester United, we should be challenging for titles" is all well and good, but right now we are pretty far from that ideal and the road back up is going to be long and hard.

And you saying we would be "higher than 7th with a better manager" is pure conjecture. I would ask you to prove that claim but that would be ridiculous because that is literally impossible.

 

[romufc]

And you saying we would be "higher than 7th with a better manager" is pure conjecture. I would ask you to prove that claim but that would be ridiculous because that is literally impossible.

Give any manager the squad and the injuries, they will all struggle.

Pep with a large squad has defensive problems and you see them dropping points.

Liverpool without Salah at OT looked half as threatening.

I don't think people really understand the importance of Key players being fit.

Especially, when you have a thin squad.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well, nobody here obviously can't. Neither can anybody here say with certainty that it WILL work out with Ole. At least not yet. No poster on RedCafé has the faintest idea of what is going on behind the scenes.

They watch matches. Often what you see is what you get. It's all semantics but like with every manager that doesn't impress many can be certain that the chap isn't good enough. Time will tell whether they were spot on, or the others were correct.

Anyhoo, hope we build on the recent form. But I can't yet pretend Ole is doing an impressive job. He needs to show more.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

I gotta give credit when it’s due, I was impressed by the Norwich match, and I also was impressed with the way we played against Chelsea (relative to our form). Win the next two-three league matches and continue to improve, and I’ll be willing to give Ole till the January window to hopefully get some reinforcements.

Even though the sample of the good matches (recent 2-3) is not enough compared to the last 7-8 months, but I’ll give Ole the benefit of the doubt if he turns it around, because all of the other managers after SAF couldn’t do it, maybe Van Gaal if we gave him another season, but we’ll never know.

 

[El Zoido]

Give any manager the squad and the injuries, they will all struggle.

Pep with a large squad has defensive problems and you see them dropping points.

Liverpool without Salah at OT looked half as threatening.

I don't think people really understand the importance of Key players being fit.

Especially, when you have a thin squad.

It’s really important. Everyone was calling Pep a fraud in his first season at City. How do we think Pep would cope with this squad?

 

[The_Order]

Give any manager the squad and the injuries, they will all struggle.

Pep with a large squad has defensive problems and you see them dropping points.

Liverpool without Salah at OT looked half as threatening.

I don't think people really understand the importance of Key players being fit.

Especially, when you have a thin squad.

Read the room, this is no place to talk sense or logic.

 

[romufc]

Read the room, this is no place to talk sense or logic.

Whoops, I was meant to say....

Under Allegri we would be challenging Liverpool for the title.

 

[lysglimt]

Ok - let me ask people this: How many managers in the P.L would take this team anywhere near the top of the P.L ? Or let me make it slightly easier - at least level on Points with Chelsea and Leicester

DDG - Young/Williams, Rojo, VL, Maguire, AWB - Fred, Andreas, McTominay - James, Lingard/Mata - Rashford

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I gotta give credit when it’s due, I was impressed by the Norwich match, and I also was impressed with the way we played against Chelsea (relative to our form). Win the next two-three league matches and continue to improve, and I’ll be willing to give Ole till the January window to hopefully get some reinforcements.

Even though the sample of the good matches (recent 2-3) is not enough compared to the last 7-8 months, but I’ll give Ole the benefit of the doubt if he turns it around, because all of the other managers after SAF couldn’t do it, maybe Van Gaal if we gave him another season, but we’ll never know.

Norwich match was great. Really enjoyed that display. More of that please.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ok - let me ask people this: How many managers in the P.L would take this team anywhere near the top of the P.L ? Or let me make it slightly easier - at least level on Points with Chelsea and Leicester

DDG - Young/Williams, Rojo, VL, Maguire, AWB - Fred, Andreas, McTominay - James, Lingard/Mata - Rashford

More lame excuse making.

Pochettino
Rodgers
Pep
Klopp
Maybe lampard
Pellegrini

And I'm sure many more. Lampard is doing better in a same/worse situation. And lets not distort the situation. Pogba played a fair few games at the start.

 

[Gator Nate]

10 managers have tried to match wits with Pool this year. Only Ole can say he hasn't lost to them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Give any manager the squad and the injuries, they will all struggle.

Pep with a large squad has defensive problems and you see them dropping points.

Liverpool without Salah at OT looked half as threatening.

I don't think people really understand the importance of Key players being fit.

Especially, when you have a thin squad.

It's not doubt with a few injuries. But he needs to do much better. Some people don't realise this but we don't need okay/decent/alright management. We need excellence. Unless were no longer an ambitious football club that's the level he has to be at. Rodgers and Lampard for example are out performing him and that's just too. Forget the teams with lesser resourced and still around us.

 

[Gator Nate]

Ole has beaten Lampard twice this year.

 

[romufc]

It's not doubt with a few injuries. But he needs to do much better. Some people don't realise this but we don't need okay/decent/alright management. We need excellence. Unless were no longer an ambitious football club that's the level he has to be at. Rodgers and Lampard for example are out performing him and that's just too. Forget the teams with lesser resourced and still around us.

Yes, no one is disputing that he has alot to prove and may not be the one. But what he has done is brought something the club have lacked over the last few years in unity.

Rodgers and Lampard may be our performing him but he has had the better of both this season.

Lampard has had no major injuries to his starting 11
Rodgers either.

 

[reddevil702]

Read the room, this is no place to talk sense or logic.

You're right, it's completely illogical to expect United to beat teams like Southampton, Palace and Newcastle. I mean who sets these crazy expectations!

 

[The_Order]

You're right, it's completely illogical to expect United to beat teams like Southampton, Palace and Newcastle. I mean who sets these crazy expectations!

Actually, its you who's right, those teams had never beaten us before Ole came along.

#OleOut

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yes, no one is disputing that he has alot to prove and may not be the one. But what he has done is brought something the club have lacked over the last few years in unity.

Rodgers and Lampard may be our performing him but he has had the better of both this season.

Lampard has had no major injuries to his starting 11
Rodgers either.

Come one now. We have had unity before. I remember feeling lvg had made us a team once again when after moyes were actually fighting for results. Mourinho had those spells too. Its no different here. I think the lack of commitment from the players has been a bit myth post SAf and moyes.

Lampards injuries are offset by not even having a window or part of last season to test get used to the job. Rodgers has a worse squad at his disposal.

For me these excused don't work for Ole. He has been very poor regardless of the injuries and what have you. But I'd give him a couple of months now that some players are back to show us some real quality. Norwich in particular was a very good performance.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Actually, its you who's right, those teams had never beaten us before Ole came along.

#OleOut

No its you who is right. Because each of those teams beat us at some point over the 10 years, it shouldn't bother fans at all nor should they even take into consider.

Terrifiic logic!

 

[romufc]

Come one now. We have had unity before. I remember feeling lvg had made us a team once again when after moyes were actually fighting for results. Mourinho had those spells too. Its no different here. I think the lack of commitment from the players has been a bit myth post SAf and moyes.

Lampards injuries are offset by not even having a window or part of last season to test get used to the job. Rodgers has a worse squad at his disposal.

For me these excused don't work for Ole. He has been very poor regardless of the injuries and what have you. But I'd give him a couple of months now that some players are back to show us some real quality. Norwich in particular was a very good performance.

Moyes? are you having a laugh? The first thing he did is tear the place down.

LVG came in and gave unity but it was his way or the highway.

Jose was only focused on himself, it wasn't unity.

Lampard had players coming from loan spells that are like new signings like Mount, Tomori, Abraham, James and returning CHO.

They signed Pulisic and Kovacic.

Rodgers has a worse squad? but alot of the first team players are brilliant. Ricardo, Evans, Chilwell, Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Vardy.

They are not excuses when the facts are infront of you.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Moyes? are you having a laugh? The first thing he did is tear the place down.

LVG came in and gave unity but it was his way or the highway.

Jose was only focused on himself, it wasn't unity.

Lampard had players coming from loan spells that are like new signings like Mount, Tomori, Abraham, James and returning CHO.

They signed Pulisic and Kovacic.

Rodgers has a worse squad? but alot of the first team players are brilliant. Ricardo, Evans, Chilwell, Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Vardy.

They are not excuses when the facts are infront of you.

Complete and utter excuses.

I said LVG not Moyes. His way or the highway is how all the great managers do it. Besides, it's irrelevant to the point I made, which is that we've had unity post SAF. Awarding Ole fake points does nobody any good.

Mourinho didn't focus on himself. I didn't like the fellow but someone who got second and won a European prize brought unity club even if he was a prick.

The poins about Chelsea's are pretty pointless given they lost their absolute talisman - Hazard. And like I said he didn't get to spend 150 million on his own players like our manager did.

Rodgers had a worse team at his disposal. No doubt about it. A couple of names being touted for our club doesn't change that. They have a good squad but ours is superior.

Nothing wrong with giving Ole some more time. But we don't have to bend over backwards for him because he's an ex player.

 

[romufc]

Complete and utter excuses.

I said LVG not Moyes. His way or the highway is how all the great managers do it. Besides, it's irrelevant to the point I made, which is that we've had unity post SAF. Awarding Ole fake points does nobody any good.

Mourinho didn't focus on himself. I didn't like the fellow but someone who got second and won a European prize brought unity club even if he was a prick.

The poins about Chelsea's are pretty pointless given they lost their absolute talisman - Hazard. And like I said he didn't get to spend 150 million on his own players like our manager did.

Rodgers had a worse team at his disposal. No doubt about it. A couple of names being touted for our club doesn't change that. They have a good squad but ours is superior.

Nothing wrong with giving Ole some more time. But we don't have to bend over backwards for him because he's an ex player.

My bad.

The point is not about Ole is the right person to take us forward it is more on do people think any other manager would do better with this squad?

Also, I agree that Ole is not the right man long term, I think he will be gone sooner than later but he has earnt another month I would say because Martial is back.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

My bad.

The point is not about Ole is the right person to take us forward it is more on do people think any other manager would do better with this squad?.

I think so.

Also, I agree that Ole is not the right man long term, I think he will be gone sooner than later but he has earnt another month I would say because Martial is back.

I agree. Initially I felt he deserved an entire season. Then it was January. Then I got more fed up and frustrated. Finally, now I think we should give him a couple of months more Martial (and maybe others?) back.

 

[romufc]

I think so.


I agree. Initially I felt he deserved an entire season. Then it was January. Then I got more fed up and frustrated. Finally, now I think we should give him a couple of months more Martial (and maybe others?) back.

I dont think it is couple months. We should know in 2 weeks.

If results / performances don't improve in the next 4 games there is no point in hoping they will ?

 

[Gasolin]

LVG won their twice, 2-1, and 1-0. Liverpool hardly did a thing, Sturrige's consolation was a Jones/De Gea error, SAF last season at SB okay it was 3-2 but we battered them for about 65 mins!

The Liverpool at that time was not a Liverpool that would go 2nd in the league and win the CL, lead the league right now, etc... granted, even that Liverpool is totally beatable by scaring the shit out of them in my opinion but the perception is that the current Liverpool team is stronger. I think Ole is going to manage to do something out of that team.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I dont think it is couple months. We should know in 2 weeks.

If results / performances don't improve in the next 4 games there is no point in hoping they will ?

It's not about results. I haven't seen the potential in Ole as a top class coach so while believing he's not got it, I'm willing to give him (not that it's mine to give) a bit more time to show potential. God knows, maybe this is the start of something we haven't been able to see earlier. I'm open to something special happening out of the blue. But obviously there's a point beyond which the picture is clear.

 

[Tom Cato]

If you think, putting letters on caps would make your point more strong, go ahead.

Point is , no one is expecting a title challenge from him or the team (unlike Moyes). I dont care about the result as long as he shows something on the ground. If we spend 140m, then it should be enough to have couple of shots against a weak opposition with 10 men or beat league 1 sides at home.

No matter what you go by , be it point wise or style wise, he is the worst of all managers since SAF. Let him prove that he is not and I will be the first one to admit, i was wrong. Until then, i will continue to speak based on facts.

Its amazing how slapping liverpool and chelsea around (we both made big changes from the previous league game, and put the big guns on during the game, quit it with the kids bs) still says «Ole is inept» to you.

I swear that you and your ilk expects full high press tiki taka regardless of who we have available because surely a good manager would win with just about anyone

 

[bond19821982]

Its amazing how slapping liverpool and chelsea around (we both made big changes from the previous league game, and put the big guns on during the game, quit it with the kids bs) still says «Ole is inept» to you.

I swear that you and your ilk expects full high press tiki taka regardless of who we have available because surely a good manager would win with just about anyone

He is inept as a coach and hasn't done anything to say otherwise. And my opinion is purely based on his records.

Would he improve- ofcourse he might . But as a club aspiring for CL players, we could do better and we should.

 

[bond19821982]

Doing worse than Moyes? How you working that out, has Ole taken a side who won the league by 11 points to 7th, getting smoked 3-0 at home by City and Liverpool in consecutive weeks and coming out saying we "aspire to be like them" when we are the current champions?

Is that what Ole has done worse than? Behave yourself

Win tomorrow and we could go 5th, Leicester will drop points throughout the season and the only game we have been beaten in when he hasn't had 6/7 injuries to deal with was Palace at home this year when we got caught on the counter.

Finally we have a manager who has the bottle to bin the players who are not good enough or don't want to be here and he gets crucified for it, Matic going in January music to my fecking ears.

He has given Williams his chance, looks a gem, McTominay is improving no end up Ole, Rashford now has 7 in 11 and 4 assists, Martial looks a new player, even Fred is looking half decent.

He has beaten Chelsea away twice, Arsenal away, Spurs away, smashed Chelsea at home, came very close to beating Liverpool and his tactics on Wednesday were brilliant, changed to a 4 and took control of the game again after Chelsea were on top.

Chelsea just play the kids did they, played their U23 side? Lets have a look

Caballero (not a kid)
Zouma (not a kid)
Alonso (not a kid)
Jorginho (not a kid)
Kovacic (not a kid)
Hudson-Odi (maybe a kid but a 40m quid kid & first teamer)
Batshuayi (not a kid)
Pullisic (not a kid, 60M player by all accounts)

So that argument hasn't lasted overly long

Ole's record.

1.71 points per game since December
1.16 points per game since becoming permanent manager.
1.3 points per game this season .


Previous Man United managers:

Jose 1.97 per game.
LVG 1.81 per game.
Moyes 1.73 per game .

So yeah, he is worse than Moyes as of now.

 

[WorksforTrystero]

More lame excuse making.

Pochettino
Rodgers
Pep
Klopp
Maybe lampard
Pellegrini

And I'm sure many more. Lampard is doing better in a same/worse situation. And lets not distort the situation. Pogba played a fair few games at the start.

I don't think I've ever, through all of my years lurking on the caf, seen someone with a less insightful post record in one single thread. I mean, except maybe Amadeus or Glaston. Sad.

 

[momo83]

You can call the squad weak but we did have:

Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Rio, Evra, De Gea, Nani, Carrick

Also, it showed what a crap manager Moyes was, where we finished was not a reflection of the squad more so the manager.

Chelsea have won league titles and the season after finish 7th
and vice versa finish 7th get a new man and they win the title.

True fact is that Moyes was out of his depth thinking he could target Bale, Kroos, Thiago when he had 0 chance of signing them and ending up with Fellaini.

Indeed. But if you remember at the time the excuse for Moyes and from Moyes was that the squad was rubbish and was lucky the year before.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't think I've ever, through all of my years lurking on the caf, seen someone with a less insightful post record in one single thread. I mean, except maybe Amadeus or Glaston. Sad.

Cheers Trump. Go back to lurking.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Regardless of the 3 away wins in a week, I’m not going to sweep the past 6 months before that under the rug. That isn’t your standard good team blip. There was some awful football and bad results in there and when they go hand in hand, it’s usually questioning time of the manager.

He has to start winning games now. I’m gonna say that he almost certainly needs to buy in January because of how ridiculously thin the squad is. We still need to keep an eye out on that next big young manager. A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of stock into OGS to be our Guardiola and I think one of the main reasons for it is it’s because of his name. They want a name from the good old days to reignite the good days. It’s peak romanticism.

If a hypothetical man named Joe Smith was our manager and had zero affiliations with Utd before joining, and had the exact managerial career of OGS before joining Utd and had the exact same results from December 2018 to now, then I don’t think there would be as many as people who would be backing him at this moment.

Again I’d like to see him do it but I’m also realistic of the likelihood he can be good enough. If he’s so great then why was he sitting in Molde all these years? Surely someone from one of the big European leagues would have fluttered their eyelashes in his direction if he was and he’d have jumped at the chance... He did get the gig with Cardiff but while you can possibly give him the benefit of the doubt for the Premier League relegation as Cardiff weren’t good enough anyway, he didn’t fare well in the Championship and nobody touched him since, until we came along last year.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Ole's record.

1.71 points per game since December
1.16 points per game since becoming permanent manager.
1.3 points per game this season .


Previous Man United managers:

Jose 1.97 per game.
LVG 1.81 per game.
Moyes 1.73 per game .

So yeah, he is worse than Moyes as of now.

Woah, don't bring facts to the table mate. He's giving youngsters a game and loaned out Smalling and Sanchez.

 

[Bobcat]

Regardless of the 3 away wins in a week, I’m not going to sweep the past 6 months before that under the rug. That isn’t your standard good team blip. There was some awful football and bad results in there and when they go hand in hand, it’s usually questioning time of the manager.

He has to start winning games now. I’m gonna say that he almost certainly needs to buy in January because of how ridiculously thin the squad is. We still need to keep an eye out on that next big young manager. A lot of people seem to be putting a lot of stock into OGS to be our Guardiola and I think one of the main reasons for it is it’s because of his name. They want a name from the good old days to reignite the good days. It’s peak romanticism.

If a hypothetical man named Joe Smith was our manager and had zero affiliations with Utd before joining, and had the exact managerial career of OGS before joining Utd and had the exact same results from December 2018 to now, then I don’t think there would be as many as people who would be backing him at this moment.

Again I’d like to see him do it but I’m also realistic of the likelihood he can be good enough. If he’s so great then why was he sitting in Molde all these years? Surely someone from one of the big European leagues would have fluttered their eyelashes in his direction if he was and he’d have jumped at the chance... He did get the gig with Cardiff but while you can possibly give him the benefit of the doubt for the Premier League relegation as Cardiff weren’t good enough anyway, he didn’t fare well in the Championship and nobody touched him since, until we came along last year.

While that is true, what ultimately landed him the job was his terrific run in the start. Considering how much doom and gloom we experienced from August-December under Jose, having a streak like that skewed everyone's perspective quite a bit. If his form had been like it was from March onwards, he would not be managing us now. And Joe Smith would not get as much rope from the fans as Ole, also true. But hes not here just because he is who he is.

The reason for him being in Molde all these years was mostly because of family reasons. Villa for example approached him when he was there, but he declined. Also, while no one can claim he did well at Cardiff, i think its often overblown. Cardiff had won 3 games all season when he got there in January and were in full blown meltdown.

 

[Foxbatt]

The issue is also that he has shown nothing yet of being able to get us to play in any set way. Yes counter attacking football is nice when we play the long ball to our strikers and there is space behind the opposing defense for them to exploit.
Furthermore, nothing in either Martial or Rashford has shown me that they can play a lone role as a CF. None of them can hold the ball. Look at all our front men in the past. The all had good first touch and they all can hold the ball. The main reason why our midfield is under the cosh is because we cannot hold the ball up front.

 

[Bobcat]

The issue is also that he has shown nothing yet of being able to get us to play in any set way. Yes counter attacking football is nice when we play the long ball to our strikers and there is space behind the opposing defense for them to exploit.
Furthermore, nothing in either Martial or Rashford has shown me that they can play a lone role as a CF. None of them can hold the ball. Look at all our front men in the past. The all had good first touch and they all can hold the ball. The main reason why our midfield is under the cosh is because we cannot hold the ball up front.

I think the good run he first had shows us how he wants us to play. Win the ball high and then go straight for the jugular, since we got plenty of pace up front and i dont think its a coincidence he went for James that is also rapid as feck. The problem with playing slow is we lack the players to break down defenses. Mata has fallen of a cliff form wise and Pogba has been out most of the season. As much as i love Scott hes not a creative midfielder. Right now counter attacking is our best bet since we lack the players to methodically break down opponents. A creative MF with good passing and dribbling skills and an attacker in the same mould would is needed imo

Rashford i agree looks lost as a lone CF, but Martial remains to be seen imo. He looked very decent vs Norwich (although it was Norwich), but i think he has shown in the past he has the tools to be a decent holding CF