Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Bilbo]

Nobody is doing themselves or anyone else any favours by comparing X with Y here. There is only one metric that Ole needs to be measured by and that is what he is doing with the resources under his control.

The folly of a football fan is to be kneejerk about almost everything. We had a very bad run and the pitchforks were out. We had numerous posters claiming that relegation was a possibility and also stupid threads asking for votes on whether Ole was the worth manager in the Premier League. It was an embarrassment and trying to defend or support Ole during this period was akin to standing in front of a firing squad. Now we have a few good results and it tilts the other way. Ole is better than X and only good things can happen from here on it.

None of this is helpful. Its important that we keep looking at this as what it is - a long term project. We should evaluate this over a longer period of time, otherwise the cycle will remain as it is. Lose to Bournemouth and its open season on the whole club. Beat them and its the opposite. With the fine margins that can swing a result one way or the other in any game its foolish to look at things that way. There is a limit to what Ole or anyone can achieve with this squad as it currently stands. Winning a few matches doesn't suddenly mean than we aren't a very light squad with some major issues.

So with that being said what are we seeing that is fair to evaluate? Obviously this is subjective and not everyone will agree, but for my two cents I think we have seen enough evidence now to suggest that:

• Ole (and staff) are not the tactical dinosaurs that some will have us believe
• The squad appears to be unified - bad apples have been removed
• All 3 summer signings continue to appear to be astute purchases - the right type of player/character for the club
• We are getting a good look at some of our young talent. One or two are showing that they have it, others perhaps not and others still need some time but the minutes and experience are going to aid their development
• Our strongest XI is actually a pretty strong side and a good foundation for what we want to do over the next 3 windows

A win or loss at Bournemouth is not going to change any of the above, despite the inevitability of our supporters casting judgement one way or the other after every single performance. I'm looking forward to January and excited about the prospect of what this team will look like should we add another attacking player and hopefully a midfielder into the mix

 

[starman]

So what the hell was we relegation fodder? Spurs have been a joke for years. Poch changed that.

I have no idea what you are even going on about. Relegation fodder?
Maybe do some fact checking, the last time Spurs finished outside the top 6 was 2008/2009.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

When was the last time we dominated a game at Anfield or Stamford Bridge? That sure hasn't happened a lot...

There's a space in between two extremes.

 

[Mainoldo]

I have no idea what you are even going on about. Relegation fodder?
Maybe do some fact checking, the last time Spurs finished outside the top 6 was 2008/2009.

Okay I read back. I put top 5 but quite clearly I meant top 4. As Poch continuously achieved that at Spurs manager barring his first season.

The is the best spurs team many have seen in their lifetime but you’re actually trying to argue otherwise?

It’s like trying to argue Ron Atkinson is better than Fergie.

The final wasn’t a fluke as Spurs have had one of the best starting XI’s in the league for 3 years. Not like Leicester who just avoiding relegation the season before. Go fact check that.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Had a good first 45 vs Liverpool who didn't turn up and parked the bus for the second 45.

Beat Astana away miraculously. Somehow we didn't concede.

Beat a newly promoted side in Norwich who have multiple players out injured.

Bournemouth is a true test. A team who play decent football especially at home. This is the toughest fixture from now until we play Tottenham and Man City back to back.

You could argue I'm being pessimistic or realistic. I've enjoyed the 3 wins and would've enjoyed the Liverpool game if we had carried on attacking.

Tactically we seem to have got the last two games right against Norwich and Chelsea. If Ole can pull that off against two out of the 3 tough games in Bournemouth, Spurs or City then I'll say he's turned a corner.

Not til then though.

 

[starman]

Okay I read back. I put top 5 but quite clearly I meant top 4. As Poch continuously achieved that at Spurs manager barring his first season.

The is the best spurs team many have seen in their lifetime but you’re actually trying to argue otherwise?

It’s like trying to argue Ron Atkinson is better than Fergie.

The final wasn’t a fluke as Spurs have had one of the best starting XI’s in the league for 3 years. Not like Leicester who just avoiding relegation the season before. Go fact check that.

Judging from your post before this about being "relegation fodder" you do have a tendency to over exaggerate.. 'Atkinson compared to Ferguson', jeez....
I said the better football was played under Redknapp, if you ask Spurs fans a lot agreed.
And Harry actually won something and achieved top 4 when Arsenal and United were still near their best. Poch has benefited greatly from their drop off

 

[momo83]

And still we were more often than not set up to play on the counter or play"underdog" football as you call it in most games at Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Highbury. A lot of the time without getting a win as well.

Not really. We adapted our game vs rival teams but never really played like underdogs.

So please don’t rewrite history.

 

[ReddBalls]

Tactically we seem to have got the last two games right against Norwich and Chelsea.

Not Liverpool?

 

[Dinghy]

Not really. We adapted our game vs rival teams but never really played like underdogs.

So please don’t rewrite history.

No history is being rewritten. We adapted to the games and played way more defensively in these games, especially in SAF's last seasons. Yesterday, we pressed high up the pitch all game, we didn't just sit back, and they couldn't deal with it. How is that playing like an "underdog"?

 

[Judas]

Rubbish. If we scored 5 at Anfield, it would never be forgotten and rightly so.

Not if we didn't end up winning.

 

[momo83]

No history is being rewritten. We adapted to the games and played way more defensively in these games, especially in SAF's last seasons. Yesterday, we pressed high up the pitch all game, we didn't just sit back, and they couldn't deal with it. How is that playing like an "underdog"?

You do realise SAF was manager for 27 years. Talking about , especially his last season, when even if true doesn’t really hold weight. As that was probably the weakest squad that he won the EPL with, and we saw the following year what a less then good manager did with the same squad.

 

[Kush]

Anyhoo hopefully our peformances come together now and we start seeing a really well coached football team on a consistent basis.

You can't see the same frailties in last 3 games too? We still struggle to create anything from open play. Partizan we got a penalty and then sat back to defend for the rest of the match and somehow scraped through. Norwich we played well against, but once again the opener came through a set-piece. Chelsea ditto. We look more comfortable tactically as in knowing what to do when we are a goal up i.e. soak up the pressure and kill the match on break. But, we offer as much penetration as a wet paper on break (which shouldn't come as a surprise when Jesse Lingard is you chief architect) and struggle to put most sides to bed. Before Rashford scored a worldie last night, the match was only ever heading one way and it was not in our favor. Let the team put performances like one versus Norwich on a regular basis, and then we can talk about some semblance of progress. Until, then its just covering the cracks and relying on set-piece/individual brilliance to get results.

 

[Dinghy]

You do realise SAF was manager for 27 years. Talking about , especially his last season, when even if true doesn’t really hold weight. As that was probably the weakest squad that he won the EPL with, and we saw the following year what a less then good manager did with the same squad.

"Last seasons". It was not just in his final season. You didn't answer my question, though. Why would you call yesterdays game an "underdog-performance" when we pressed them high up the pitch for pretty much the whole game and they couldn't cope with it? Mourinho's low block "everyone-behind-the-ball"-tactic was way more of an underdog-tactic than what we saw yesterday.

 

[BlueHaze]

His future is in his own hands. If he wants the patience he is crying out for he needs to keep on winning games and at this moment in time I could quite frankly not give a feck about what it looks like just win games. If he does this he'll get the time he wants but if the shit form comes back and we keep stacking up on draws and losses he'll be out wether you like it or not. This is a results based industry. He needs to buy himself his own time and a good run of form will do that.

I've not got many positives I can think of when it comes to his management but if we strictly talk signings he's so far been the only manager post SAF who has spent his money well. I have got to give him credit for that. So far I'm very pleased with all 3. Refreshing to be able to say that considering the atrocious way we've spent these past 6 years.

 

[el3mel]

Yesterday was a good tactical set up and unlike many others I actually have zero problems setting up defensively in big matches. Liverpool was a good tactical set up as well.

The main problem was with playing the inferior sides who park the bus. Norwich was a great game but they have one of the worst defenses in the league and play very open game thus they're 19th. Let's see how we'll shape and play against the next parked bus, and if we start putting on the same attacking pattern as we did against Norwich I doubt anyone won't be pleased. We can defend as much as we want against big games it doesn't matter to me, as long as we play well and coherent attacking style in other games.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Lose to Bournemouth and its open season on the whole club. Beat them and its the opposite. With the fine margins that can swing a result one way or the other in any game its foolish to look at things that way.

This is far too sensible for the average muppet on here.

You're obviously right, though.

Part of the problem is that threads like this one tend to be dominated by people who are mainly interested in having their prejudices confirmed. Goes for much of the football forum, really.

A certain type of vocal Internet fan is - very much unlike his or her old school predecessors - not characterized by being fickle in the extreme, but rather by refusing to back down from whatever position they've attached themselves to. Be it a player, a manager, an owner or the tea lady - they're world class, or utterly hopeless, and that's that.

 

[Yagami]

We scored 4 at bridge, conceding 5 and no one even remembers that game

I was actually about to post that game!

I have 2 lasting memories from that. The first being Anderson playing a great game for the full 90! The second being Nani getting unfairly blamed for the loss just because he shot instead of running the ball to the corner. I believe he also played a great game, but that one little thing overshadowed his performance for some. Fergie, too, I think...

 

[roonster09]

I was actually about to post that game!

I have 2 lasting memories from that. The first being Anderson playing a great game for the full 90! The second being Nani getting unfairly blamed for the loss just because he shot instead of running the ball to the corner. I believe he also played a great game, but that one little thing overshadowed his performance for some. Fergie, too, I think...

Only thing I remember from that game was I was so exhausted on that day, it was the first game where I slept off watching the game.

 

[DSG]

Okay. Well Villa managers had good records against Chelsea to. Was just checking you out wasn’t claiming Solskjaer was actually a better manager than Poch.

I’m not sure that there has been a more overrated manager in the history of football than Mauricio Pochettino.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Not Liverpool?

The first 45 minutes as I mentioned, yes. Second half was a bus being parked.

 

[Sing you a song]

The absolute state of this post two weeks later, 3 away wins on the spin, two very very good performances, will be the semi final of a cup and beat Bournemouth on Saturday potentially up to 5th in the league.

Tuanzebe, Williams, Garner, Greenwood all being given debuts/runs in the side, hopefully Gomes to come as well. McTominay improving no end under Ole, Rashford now has 7 in 11 with 4 assists, players coming back now.

Not to mention his signings, James, Maguire, AWB looking like superb long term United players, slowly binning off all the shite and clowns who should not be anywhere near the club.

Yet because we are not top within his first 6/12 months its the "worst it has been for a long long time".

Clueless

The absolute state of this post two weeks later, 3 away wins on the spin, two very very good performances, will be the semi final of a cup and beat Bournemouth on Saturday potentially up to 5th in the league.

Tuanzebe, Williams, Garner, Greenwood all being given debuts/runs in the side, hopefully Gomes to come as well. McTominay improving no end under Ole, Rashford now has 7 in 11 with 4 assists, players coming back now.

Not to mention his signings, James, Maguire, AWB looking like superb long term United players, slowly binning off all the shite and clowns who should not be anywhere near the club.

Yet because we are not top within his first 6/12 months its the "worst it has been for a long long time".

Clueless

great post mate agree with every word

 

[Sing you a song]

Look, three away wins in a row is a big improvement so fair play.

However, let's all admit that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer plays underdog football - the sort of football most fans chastised Jose Mourinho for playing. I personally don't have a huge problem with it, because above all else the goal is to win football games. I'd prefer to be entertained but so be it.

But OGS plays underdog football and he is not an attacking manager. That myth needs to die and all fans should have no issue in agreeing with that statement.

for gods sake mate
Ole is having to play the cards he has been dealt he is finding a way to get through a tough time with the poor squad at his disposal , the state of the squad is dictating our tactics .
He has signed 3 players all of which look the part ( we can’t say that for any other manager in recent years ) and finally cleared out some of the deadwood bought by his predecessors
Give him 2 more windows and all you Ole haters can eat your words and personally I hope you all choke on them .
Give the guy a break he is United through and through and going a great job in almost impossible circumstances.

 

[DSG]

This is far too sensible for the average muppet on here.

You're obviously right, though.

Part of the problem is that threads like this one tend to be dominated by people who are mainly interested in having their prejudices confirmed. Goes for much of the football forum, really.

A certain type of vocal Internet fan is - very much unlike his or her old school predecessors - not characterized by being fickle in the extreme, but rather by refusing to back down from whatever position they've attached themselves to. Be it a player, a manager, an owner or the tea lady - they're world class, or utterly hopeless, and that's that.

Not to venture into topics outside of football, but I believe this is not unique to the Caf or football in general. The environment we live in today is completely devoid of nuance. There is no way to operate in a gray area because there is only black and white, and when you try to introduce a centrist opinion, you end up being hated by both sides.

The fact is that Ole is not as bad as the Ole out faction would have you believe, and he’s probably not as good as the Ole forever faction contends (although I find that group is more rational and and not as polarized).

 

[fergiesarmy1]

for gods sake mate
Ole is having to play the cards he has been dealt he is finding a way to get through a tough time with the poor squad at his disposal , the state of the squad is dictating our tactics .
He has signed 3 players all of which look the part ( we can’t say that for any other manager in recent years ) and finally cleared out some of the deadwood bought by his predecessors
Give him 2 more windows and all you Ole haters can eat your words and personally I hope you all choke on them .
Give the guy a break he is United through and through and going a great job in almost impossible circumstances.

Haha well said mate.

Scandalous form this season with new players and key players missing - https://int.soccerway.com/teams/england/manchester-united-fc/662/matches/

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Not to venture into topics outside of football, but I believe this is not unique to the Caf or football in general. The environment we live in today is completely devoid of nuance. There is no way to operate in a gray area because there is only black and white, and when you try to introduce a centrist opinion, you end up being hated by both sides.

The fact is that Ole is not as bad as the Ole out faction would have you believe, and he’s probably not as good as the Ole forever faction contends (although I find that group is more rational and and not as polarized).

Good point. In fairness, we're actually very good against the top 6 sides. Right now, its vital we keep winning - confidence seems to be high and we need to keep this momentum going. Falter again and I don't think he'll ever improve us but if we continue winning, then he'll win me over.

 

[Leftback99]

Yesterday was a good tactical set up and unlike many others I actually have zero problems setting up defensively in big matches. Liverpool was a good tactical set up as well.

The main problem was with playing the inferior sides who park the bus. Norwich was a great game but they have one of the worst defenses in the league and play very open game thus they're 19th. Let's see how we'll shape and play against the next parked bus, and if we start putting on the same attacking pattern as we did against Norwich I doubt anyone won't be pleased. We can defend as much as we want against big games it doesn't matter to me, as long as we play well and coherent attacking style in other games.

Doesn't watching these games where we do set up to counter attack show you how difficult it is to break such sides down? Liverpool and Chelsea created next to nothing against us but you have expected us to in games where we haven't had our best attackers available.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Huge result for him last night - that alone will probably buy him til the end of the season.

Though it's interesting how many Utd fans rubbish the League Cup win by Mourinho - yet are now clearly suggesting it's a very worthy competition under Solksjaer...

 

[lysglimt]

Not to venture into topics outside of football, but I believe this is not unique to the Caf or football in general. The environment we live in today is completely devoid of nuance. There is no way to operate in a gray area because there is only black and white, and when you try to introduce a centrist opinion, you end up being hated by both sides.

The fact is that Ole is not as bad as the Ole out faction would have you believe, and he’s probably not as good as the Ole forever faction contends (although I find that group is more rational and and not as polarized).

I doubt many in the Ole forever-faction has ever said he is the best manager in the world. I am very much pro-Ole but of course I doubt that he can match Klopp or Guardiola - the problem is I don't see many others who can match Klopp or Guardiola. And I also think everyone agrees that 13 points from 10 games isn't good enough. But I feel we have been unlucky - and I can't point to a single League-game where I felt we got more than we deserved. But I can point to several where I felt we deserved more. Or to rephrase, should have had more based on chances created in the game. (Southampton, Wolves and Newcastle being 3)

But does he deserve to be fired ? Absolutely not. He deserves more time - and I hope the majority of the fans understand that.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Huge result for him last night - that alone will probably buy him til the end of the season.

Though it's interesting how many Utd fans rubbish the League Cup win by Mourinho - yet are now clearly suggesting it's a very worthy competition under Solksjaer...

Literally no one is doing this. His job was never dependent on the league cup other than in the minds of short termist and entitled fans. Jesus imagine if you were a Newcastle fan. You might just have killed yourself.

 

[lysglimt]

Doesn't watching these games where we do set up to counter attack show you how difficult it is to break such sides down? Liverpool and Chelsea created next to nothing against us but you have expected us to in games where we haven't had our best attackers available.

Well the good news is - Bournemouth are not known for parking the bus. Brighton is a different story!

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Huge result for him last night - that alone will probably buy him til the end of the season.

Though it's interesting how many Utd fans rubbish the League Cup win by Mourinho - yet are now clearly suggesting it's a very worthy competition under Solksjaer...

I enjoyed winning it under Jose just never bragged about it afterwards, would be the same under Ole if he managed to win it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Huge result for him last night - that alone will probably buy him til the end of the season.

Though it's interesting how many Utd fans rubbish the League Cup win by Mourinho - yet are now clearly suggesting it's a very worthy competition under Solksjaer...

Nah its not that important a competition.

 

[Masskh]

If I want to tell something about him I say in the summer transfer we got three player which they look decent and James is even worth more than what we paid, far more indeed. At the same time, Mctom got settled and we are about to solve the LB and RB problems we have had since long time even under SAF.

Williams is a pure talent and AWB looks great in defensive part and can get better in attacking. Lack of creative middfelders to push attacking football is obvious here but Is Ole the one we should blame!? We played good reasonable football against top and shit against inferiors but this can be settled with more players joining us, it is as it is and Ole is not an Illusionist with magic hands but he helped youngsters to get developed (Mctom and Williams) I would say it is a process with lots of fluctuations we will see downnside and upside till we have such tiny choices on attack side, I say we can handle it on long term basis. God bless Ole hatters, as United fans, we want to be champion and it is not happening soon with Ole, Poch or Klopp, it is about our tiny squad

 

[Bobcat]

You don’t care about style? So what is the United way fuss all about. I’m told give Ole time because he gets it? Gets what? We could get this from Allegri and also be further up the table if it’s about results. We could even get this from Mourinho if we are willing to back his bull.

What are you on about? I have not mentioned the "United way" at all.

And lets cut the crap here. 99% of United supporters were more than happy to have Jose here despite his reputation for defensive football and being a toxic twat as long as he could brings success. Beggars cant be choosers, and considering our circumstances, "playing with style" is pretty far down the list of priorities

I also find it bemusing that once we manage to string a couple of good results together the discussion shifts from results to some vague nonsense about style. Which tells me you would rather "be right" than see Ole actually succeed and thats kinda sad imo

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Good point. In fairness, we're actually very good against the top 6 sides. Right now, its vital we keep winning - confidence seems to be high and we need to keep this momentum going. Falter again and I don't think he'll ever improve us but if we continue winning, then he'll win me over.

I do believe this season is going to be a rollercoaster..with highs and lows . We will falter again and that is when we will need the support. Ole might not be Pep but he isn't Mourinho either who will push the club off the cliff just to save himself. We will have to be patient and swallow the bad results when they come as there are faint signs of some green shoots of recovery happening!!

 

[Gasolin]

It's always possible to impose your style on the team. LVG had trash players and while he failed he did it his way getting the players to play football in his image (sadly a past his prime image). Leicester were, if I'm not mistaken , a defensive counter attacking team prior to Rodgers and they play fornt foot football now. Sarri took over a chelsea team which had been managed by Jose and Conte. But within a month it was identifiable as a Sarri team. That's what I want to see from Ole. Results where we counter teams and win are great. But eventually he'll need to be a top class coach to succeed at United

Again this counter attacking stuff. We play direct, we don't counter attack at all, how is this considered "his" style? And it doesn't even match whatever he was doing with Molde, this drives me nuts now.

 

[Gasolin]

Do you also not like the Pep or Klopp mindset of "philosophy"?

I take your point about SAF. But times have moved on from there from what I can see. A manager is first and foremost a coach these days, and we need to move forwards and meet the times rather than go back to the past. I fear well never really be successfully unless we get onboard the progressive football train. Also we were pretty brilliant in possession under SAF and didn't necessarily rely mostly on sitting back and countering. We excelled when we were on the front just as much as those odd occasions when we weren't. And let's not forget how incredible a motivator and manager he was. That is a rare quality.

Yes I dislike those 2 too and there will be a time when they will struggle against us because we would be more pragmatic to win whatever the cost instead of playing with a "philosophy".

 

[Gasolin]

In what season? 99 we drew 3-3 with Barca home and away, drew 2-2 home and away to Bayern, beat Juventus 3-2 in Italy.

Only underdog performance from SAF was vs Barca in 2007 and the finals which we lost and he regretted and tried changing our style after.

Think you forget under SAF we were often the best side in the world.

Not true, we had great difficulties in Europe and Queiroz completely changed the defensive mindset and shape. In all big games after that, a lot of opposition fans deemed United to be boring but we won games, and that changes everything. I don't consider that boring because for me, it's focus, dedication, ethos and an understanding that you have to win no matter how or what. And that excites me.

 

[Gasolin]

I've said in earlier posts that Solskjaer should stick to his guns. Stick to being a counter attacking manager, stop decieving the public by using this attacking football metric as it's falsified. We are more useful out of possession in moments of transition then we are when in phases of play. Given Ole's 10 year managerial career this is the best standard of football he can muster in my honest opinion. I don't understand how fans think us buying an entire new starting 11 will suddenly up the coaching directives. Look at the quality Madrid have had at their disposal in the last 5 years, they for me have never been considered a coherent attacking team, never had an identity / ethos that cultivates the players to play a specific way or to a specific system. I see a similar angle with Ole where there's much impetus on individual players to come up with their own brilliance for us to win games. It's this very reason we struggle against teams that swallow up pressure and will try and nick a lead when the chance presents itself.

Solskjaer should do everything he can to enhance the probability of the team having frequent opportunities to run at the opposition spaces because it's clearly suited to his attributes. No use us trying to echo the likes of Klopp and Guardiola with possession based play, it doesn't suit us at all. We don't look anything like a traditional United team so fans especially and the media need to stop pushing this pre historic agenda.

The reality is his Molde side was never a counter attacking team per se. Only a combination of high press, counter press, possession oriented team that would enjoy using directness when the opportunity is there. So he's not hiding.

 

[Mainoldo]

What are you on about? I have not mentioned the "United way" at all.

And lets cut the crap here. 99% of United supporters were more than happy to have Jose here despite his reputation for defensive football and being a toxic twat as long as he could brings success. Beggars cant be choosers, and considering our circumstances, "playing with style" is pretty far down the list of priorities

I also find it bemusing that once we manage to string a couple of good results together the discussion shifts from results to some vague nonsense about style. Which tells me you would rather "be right" than see Ole actually succeed and thats kinda sad imo

I really don’t care about Ole. I support Manchester United. Some people seem to fail to understand that.

People wanted Mourinho because he won 3 premier league titles. 1 la Liga and 1 Serie A title. What’s wrong with that?

Why do people want Ole?