Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

ffs give the guy some time...
let him build his team..
let him implement his tactics..
let him do things his way..

i hardly ever comment here any more.. as all i read from the majority of posters is childish, self entitled, non patient whinging ..

Shame your rare post consists of nothing but a bunch of cliches, just like Ole’s post match interviews.
You don’t get to build “your team” whilst losing football matches left and right when it’s evident he doesn’t really have any tactics to implement, the world doesn’t work that way, not where there’s a lot of money involved, not at this level.
He’s been here since last December, and he won’t last past this December.

 

[Leftback99]

Can he do that assessment for Arsenal’s 5-0 drubbing of Championship Forrest. With there unfit and unused/underdeveloped players?

Or maybe West Ham's 4-0 drubbing by Oxford or Spurs defeat to Colchester. Perhaps SAFs defeat to Southend with Rooney and Ronaldo in the team.

 

[Water Melon]

Dont know if he conducts his training the same fashion here as he did in Molde, but that's what he said at least. Regarding our coaches though, isn't a but unfair that they get called clueless and shite, when its simply no way of knowing for sure? As i said, i doubt Ferguson would keep Phelan around for years if he was utterly inept at coaching, so i just find it strange that blame gets shifted over to them when not a single one of us have any clue what they do at Carrington



Again, Ferguson trusted Phelan for years. Did he just forget how to coach? And i dont think there is a coach in the world that can create diamonds out of coal, and we have quite a bit of coal in our squad. The best a coach/manager can do it get a player to play to the best of his abilities. Its not like we have played amazing, swashbuckling football the last couple of years and its not like these players were great, then suddenly turned to shit this season. (Well some like Mata, Young and Matic, but thats because of age)

I can see what we are trying to do. The problem is that we lack the quality in the final ball or the finish to actually take those chances. If you take a look at that xG thread or any of our post match stats, you can see we have loads of the ball in good areas, but without Pogba and Rashford/Martial in form we really struggle to convert that possession into goals. As i also said, James has been our biggest attacking threat this season, and that says quite a lot i think about the (lack of) quality in this squad

No doubt morale is low right now among the players, but as mentioned several times in this thread, this squad lacks winners and leaders and having heads drop when we go down is not something new either, its been this way for a long time and i suspect a lot of these players simply dont have the bottle to be at an elite club. Certainly not right now

The thing is, we had four managers now in 7 year, one of them being one of the most successful managers alive and i just find it absurd that they and their coaches should take the majority of the blame when the only constant over this period has been Ed and a bunch of these under performing players. If Ole got sacked and we got a new manager and coaching team that suddenly turned us into league contenders, nothing would make me happier, but i firmly believe that is impossible in our current situation. Because that new manager still would have to rely on the likes of Fred, Pereira, Lingaard, Young, Matic and a bunch of unproven youngsters and no amount of coaching in the world would make them top flight players this season

Everyone here seems to agree on that we are in/need a complete rebuild, but it seems very few are able to handle the consequences of that rebuild

Phelan could well be past his best days. Happens literally to everyone. Football evolves and at the end it leaves behind each and every coach and manager. Ole does not seem to be able to get players to the max of their abilities. I do not see any player having improved significantly under Ole. Klopp has improved a mediocre team and instilled his own style of play, Pep has turned his City into an unstoppable machine in the Prem. I am yet to see anything that would suggest that Solskjaer is good enough to manage United. If anything, I am seeing United going backwards. Finally, I do believe that there are managers out there who can get much more out of this squad than Ole. Moreover, if the current trend continues, Ole will be sacked 100% and rightfully so. So far, so poor from Ole.

 

[Phil Osophy]

Kind of answered you own question there. Just because it was bad before, doesn't mean it should be bad now and that's why clubs fire and hire managers - you can take a number of PL coaches outside of the huge clubs and see quickly the effect of good coaching (Leicester, wolves, Southampton off the top of my head) that's not to say these teams will be amazing or that we should aspire to copy their styles but I can look at those clubs and very quickly see their identity. I can't with ours and that's purely on the heads of the coaching staff.

I didn't, because while I admit we're far from being a perfect machine and there's some margin to improve, I can't conclude after watching our games that our biggest problem has been the lack of coaching. Even with all our problems and limitations, we should have got more goals and better results these last two months. I think our biggest problem was coaching when under LVG we had our first shot after 60 minutes in some games, with people "celebrating" in the stands. Which is different from shooting 30 times in a game and scoring 1 goal.

The identity thing deserves a deep analysis because I think Solskjaer has been juggling since December, and it's not as easy as it seems. I think we saw his intentions from the start when we kept the ball and pressed high, and some goals even came from those recoveries high up the field. But then the team had physical problems and couldn't keep the high block effectively, so we played deep (and poorly) in the last months of the season, going from one box to the other one like without any sense of control. Even in the first months with him I remember us being hopeless in the last 10-20 minutes of games because the players looked shot.

This season we started badly against Chelsea in the first half and we played the underdog, but against Wolves, Palace and Southampton we were bossing the game for long periods, maybe Soton a bit less, and helped by the red card at the end. Then we had key injuries on an already thin team, and he decides to play a conservative game both against Leicester and West Ham, after a run of bad results and all the noise around the team. In the EL and the Cup he's playing mostly reserves and kids without experience, all of them at the same time, so there's an element of confusion there, lack of rhythm and experience that should be considered before taking general conclusions from these games.

In the end I see a manager who wants to develop a more offensive and energetic way of playing than what we had before, but he's working with lots of obstacles and limitations around. So he's walking on a rope and trying to find the balance between football and results, something highly difficult considering the situation and our moment as a club. I mean, for those who have forgotten already, having the second highest wages in football with such a mediocre team. If some wizard can guarantee us top 4 through a sophisticated brand of football with these players, in that context and while we rebuild the club... he will have better proposals than managing United for sure.

 

[Offsideagain]

First off, Guardiola won nowt in his first season and has spent £600m refreshing the squad. He knows he’ll be at City for the term of his contract as even the Sheik wouldn’t tap up someone else until at least six months before Guardiola swans off. So City are stable and confident and very, very smug.

United and managers is worse than Brexit. We as fans want the best and expectations are high but we also have to be realistic. It’s no use moaning about performances from the team because it is acknowledged that they are not a top team yet. It is also no use sacking Ole and starting the whole thing over again just to sack another manager 18 months down the line and start again etc etc. Just accept we are mid table at best at this moment. Rumours abound that they have offered Pogba another contract which I am amazed at. We are linked with dozens of players on a daily basis which unsettles the squad. Come January, hopefully some more deadwood will go and a couple of experienced quality players will come to help and tutor the kids. I’d have Zlatan back in a heartbeat. I have promised myself not to criticise Ole or the club just now even though I am as frustrated as anyone reading this.

 

[Buster15]

Afraid confused against city? Understandable.

Afraid confused against rochdale?

I understand that. But when you are completely lacking in confidence it doesn't matter who you are playing.
It is the fear of failure that chokes the freedom to play. Some players will make a mistake and then hide being scared of the ball. It is a real problem affecting us.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I understand that. But when you are completely lacking in confidence it doesn't matter who you are playing.
It is the fear of failure that chokes the freedom to play. Some players will make a mistake and then hide being scared of the ball. It is a real problem affecting us.

The excuses are getting ridiculous every day. You should be beating the likes of Rochdale and Astana while playing in 3rd gear. Its the non existent coaching, clueless manager and some of the shit players responsible.

 

[Denis79]

More like not giving a feck.

Our players collectively and culturally since saf seems to undermine every manager and not listening to their instructions.

No way ole could be this clueless, i dont buy a collection of xi international players cant do better than this if they try.

How did we get to this mess

Agree with all of this, a team with 5-6 internationals and one of them a world champion should not need manager guidance to beat a mid-table League One team. We've seen it with every manager we have had since SAF. Players either not caring or they think they so good they don't need to take it seriously. Whatever the reason is, it's a fecking mess.

 

[Buster15]

The excuses are getting ridiculous every day. You should be beating the likes of Rochdale and Astana while playing in 3rd gear. Its the non existent coaching, clueless manager and some of the shit players responsible.

Again. I understand what you are saying and I have been highly critical of the poor levels of coaching.
But there are modern sports psychologists who understand how to deal with lacking confidence.
A good example was Ronnie O'Sullivan. Probably the most naturally talented snooker play. He has had problems with mental and confidence issues and hated snooker. But this was transformed with the help of Steve Peters and we have seen him performing better than ever.
The human brain is incredibly complex, far more than the body.

 

[dove]

Agree with all of this, a team with 5-6 internationals and one of them a world champion should not need manager guidance to beat a mid-table League One team. We've seen it with every manager we have had since SAF. Players either not caring or they think they so good they don't need to take it seriously. Whatever the reason is, it's a fecking mess.

While some individuals might “not need a guidance to beat a league 1 team”, plenty others around them do. Every manager we had since SAF was either out of their depth or past their best. All of them were simply the wrong choices and it should not turn people into believing that nothing would change even if we had Pep in charge. We just need to find the right one. I don’t have much hope in our useless board but I believe some day even they will be able to make a good decision picking the manager.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Again. I understand what you are saying and I have been highly critical of the poor levels of coaching.
But there are modern sports psychologists who understand how to deal with lacking confidence.
A good example was Ronnie O'Sullivan. Probably the most naturally talented snooker play. He has had problems with mental and confidence issues and hated snooker. But this was transformed with the help of Steve Peters and we have seen him performing better than ever.
The human brain is incredibly complex, far more than the body.

Or how about we get a half decent manager & sort out the psychological side of the players?

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The excuses are getting ridiculous every day. You should be beating the likes of Rochdale and Astana while playing in 3rd gear. Its the non existent coaching, clueless manager and some of the shit players responsible.

It is incredible the amount of mental gymnastics people are willing to attempt in order to absolve Ole of any blame at all.

We've gone from expecting a top 4 challenge, to Ole saying top 6 will be a battle we might lose, to some fans now accepting 8th "if we see progress" (as if falling further down the table is evidence of progress), to some posters now trying to claim it's not a big deal to be getting out-classed by teams from two divisions below and the Kazakhstani league in terms of fluid football.

I honestly think we might end up in a relegation battle this season, because Ole has shown nothing to suggest he can halt a slide in form/morale and fans seem like they'd still be "ah well, he's playing the youngsters" if we were 18th in the league. The stars seem to be aligning for something berserk to happen to us this season......I just have an ominous feeling about this.

For a team like us to get sucked into a relegation battle, it'd need to be The Perfect Storm. A combination of everything that could be wrong, to align in the same season. If you think about it, we actually have that:

- An inadequate manager, who has been relegated before.
- A terribly poor squad who are on a slide in terms of morale/form.
- Said manager seems unable to raise morale or stop the slide in form (see last season for a prime example).
- Our form since Ole took over is actually relegation form.
- Star players not turning up / questions over future.
- Complete, abject apathy from the fanbase.


For the record, no I dont think we will be relegated. But I do see a realistic scenario in which we get sucked into a relegation battle of some kind.

 

[Jackal981]

The one sackable offence is I believe he declined to sign Bruno Fernandes because of his low pass completion rate. What on earth is he thinking going to the season with fecking Lingard and old Mata is better than Bruno Fernandes? He surely cant be worse. Also remember Ziyech is available for 35M and will surely be better than any of our current player in the 10 position.

 

[Buster15]

Or how about we get a half decent manager & sort out the psychological side of the players?

Which ever.
All I am pointing out is that we have appointed what was thought to be a half decent manager, 4 times.
When Ole first came, there were a string of good performances.
Ole is still the manager and in the main we have the same players.
But confidence is on the floor.
Cause and effect.
Pinpoint the cause and deal with it.
Just doing the same thing is not the answer.

 

[Random Task]

Or how about we get a half decent manager & sort out the psychological side of the players?

It was less than 12 months we had Jose Mourinho, is he not a half-decent manager? His reputation would certainly suggest so, yet we looked no better than a midtable team under him.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

But I do see a realistic scenario in which we get sucked into a relegation battle of some kind.

Be nice to have an exciting end to a season.

 

[Rista]

First off, Guardiola won nowt in his first season and has spent £600m refreshing the squad. He knows he’ll be at City for the term of his contract as even the Sheik wouldn’t tap up someone else until at least six months before Guardiola swans off. So City are stable and confident and very, very smug.

United and managers is worse than Brexit. We as fans want the best and expectations are high but we also have to be realistic. It’s no use moaning about performances from the team because it is acknowledged that they are not a top team yet. It is also no use sacking Ole and starting the whole thing over again just to sack another manager 18 months down the line and start again etc etc. Just accept we are mid table at best at this moment. Rumours abound that they have offered Pogba another contract which I am amazed at. We are linked with dozens of players on a daily basis which unsettles the squad. Come January, hopefully some more deadwood will go and a couple of experienced quality players will come to help and tutor the kids. I’d have Zlatan back in a heartbeat. I have promised myself not to criticise Ole or the club just now even though I am as frustrated as anyone reading this.

In terms of performances, yes, which is kinda the point. We were unhappy with Jose's 2nd place finish because we believed this squad could do better. He was right that the players are not as good as we think but this team is still far better than "mid table at best". Top 4 should be a realistic goal for any manager, we cannot sacrifice short term success that much. When you look at our wage bill, it is impossible to accept mid table at best.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

It was less than 12 months we had Jose Mourinho, is he not a half-decent manager? His reputation would certainly suggest so, yet we looked no better than a midtable team under him.

We finished second, reached the FA cup final in his second season, won two trophies in his first before we capitulated in his infamous third.
Can you imagine us ever finishing second or winning a trophy with Ole in charge?
Maybe you can, I sure as hell can’t.

 

[Buster15]

While some individuals might “not need a guidance to beat a league 1 team”, plenty others around them do. Every manager we had since SAF was either out of their depth or past their best. All of them were simply the wrong choices and it should not turn people into believing that nothing would change even if we had Pep in charge. We just need to find the right one. I don’t have much hope in our useless board but I believe some day even they will be able to make a good decision picking the manager.

With United, changing the manager is little more than a lottery. And that is because those responsible for doing that have a track record of failure. So doing it again could well end up with another disaster. At best they odds are 50/50.
We have all identified the cause. People doing a job they are not competent in.
It is so blindingly obvious to even a half wit that the current structure is broken.
And until that is corrected nothing much is going to change.
This is such a badly run organisation. No wonder it is under performing.

 

[dove]

With United, changing the manager is little more than a lottery. And that is because those responsible for doing that have a track record of failure. So doing it again could well end up with another disaster. At best they odds are 50/50.
We have all identified the cause. People doing a job they are not competent in.
It is so blindingly obvious to even a half wit that the current structure is broken.
And until that is corrected nothing much is going to change.
This is such a badly run organisation. No wonder it is under performing.

I know our structure is broken and the board is useless but still, they don’t coach players and pick the team (I hope). Having a good progressive manager would improve things a bit. The argument that we should stick with Ole simply because we might fail another appointment is weird. Knowing that we will never gonna have a DoF, the only way to get out of this mess is to try until we succeed, even if it means sacking another 3 managers.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Be nice to have an exciting end to a season.

That's one way of looking at it! Maybe that type of scare might actually jump-start out players into actually turning up on matchday and showing some desire.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I don't care about Ole going, it is Ed I want out, we are a shower of shite, and the buck stops with him.

 

[edgar allan]

I know our structure is broken and the board is useless but still, they don’t coach players and pick the team (I hope). Having a good progressive manager would improve things a bit. The argument that we should stick with Ole simply because we might fail another appointment is weird. Knowing that we will never gonna have a DoF, the only way to get out of this mess is to try until we succeed, even if it means sacking another 3 managers.

You could have a bus load of the best & most progressive managers in the world and even they won't make a winning team out of a squad with no forwards.

 

[edgar allan]

That's one way of looking at it! Maybe that type of scare might actually jump-start out players into actually turning up on matchday and showing some desire.

Pogba still wouldn't give 2 fecks

 

[Random Task]

We finished second, reached the FA cup final in his second season, won two trophies in his first before we capitulated in his infamous third.
Can you imagine us ever finishing second or winning a trophy with Ole in charge?
Maybe you can, I sure as hell can’t.

We finished sixth in his first full season in charge.

Would sixth be an acceptable finish for Ole this season?

 

[dove]

You could have a bus load of the best & most progressive managers in the world and even they won't make a winning team out of a squad with no forwards.

I believe it would not be worse than now, we struggle against literally everyone.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

We finished sixth in his first full season in charge.

Would sixth be an acceptable finish for Ole this season?

If he wins us the EL and the League Cup then obviously, but there’s a better chance Lingard hits double figures than Ole winning us a Europa league and League cup double.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Our general play is a bit worrying tbh. No sort of method to it attack wise. City have method behind how they break teams down. We seem to be relying still on individual brilliance like we did under Mourinho.

 

[edgar allan]

I believe it would not be worse than now, we struggle against literally everyone.

It is no surprise at all that we will struggle this year, we needed to replace the 4 players that left with better and in the end the club didn't replace them at all. We are left relying on a 17 year old to hold the team up. It may not be worse but it couldn't be much better no matter who was in charge.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It is incredible the amount of mental gymnastics people are willing to attempt in order to absolve Ole of any blame at all.

No one's absolving Ole of anything so don't worry about that. He was simply adding to the discussion.

For reference, here's his comment. Note the bolded part:

Again. I understand what you are saying and I have been highly critical of the poor levels of coaching.
But there are modern sports psychologists who understand how to deal with lacking confidence.
A good example was Ronnie O'Sullivan. Probably the most naturally talented snooker play. He has had problems with mental and confidence issues and hated snooker. But this was transformed with the help of Steve Peters and we have seen him performing better than ever.
The human brain is incredibly complex, far more than the body.

An interesting point to consider, no need to bash it just because it doesn't say Ole out.

 

[edgar allan]

If he wins us the EL and the League Cup then obviously, but there’s a better chance Lingard hits double figures than Ole winning us a Europa league and League cup double.

The league cup is one small step up from the charity shield....even the lower league teams are putting out their reserves.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Our general play is a bit worrying tbh. No sort of method to it attack wise. City have method behind how they break teams down. We seem to be relying still on individual brilliance like we did under Mourinho.

Worrying? Worrying? It has got to the point when I applaud someone who passes successfully in the final third or puts in a great cross

 

[edgar allan]

Worrying? Worrying? It has got to the point when I applaud someone who passes successfully in the final third or puts in a great cross

We haven't had someone that could put in a good cross since Ronaldo left.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

We haven't had someone that could put in a good cross since Ronaldo left.

Valencia in his first season was a brilliant crosser.

The league cup is one small step up from the charity shield....even the lower league teams are putting out their reserves.

Maybe, a league cup and a Europe league is pretty damn decent though.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

No one's absolving Ole of anything so don't worry about that. He was simply adding to the discussion.

For reference, here's his comment. Note the bolded part:




An interesting point to consider, no need to bash it just because it doesn't say Ole out.

It is yeah. I mean, I don't agree though. Why is that we're the only team that seem to have to consider bringing in mental help for our players? Wouldn't the better option be to think "you know what, this lad doesn't have the right mentality to play for a prestigious club like this". That's how most big clubs would deal with players who lacked the right mentality to succeed there, not pamper them and treat them with kid gloves. These are grown men, not youth team players. The majority of them have been here a good while now, some for what seems like a decade.

But yeah, I see the point he's trying to make and accept it's not absolving anyone of anything.

 

[The Cat]

I really hoped ole would get time. I think he's got the right idea of what the plan for the future needs to be. Unfortunately I now think he would be more suited in an advisory role if anyone listens to him. Hes not good enough to manage at this level even though it looked promising at the start. Love the bloke but the best thing he's done is try to start a process he can't possibly be around to finish. Get Poch in he's good with young players and could be the best solution. Sorry ole you needed to be granted another 4 players to make this work.

 

[MrSingh2002]

We're slightly better with 3 new signings.

We would have been slightly better again if we'd made two more midfield signings to replace Herrera and Fellaini.

We would've been better upfront if we'd replaced Lukaku.

I sense its Woodward to blame and as poor as I think Ole is tactically.... I think he's being used as a scapegoat by Woodward.

Woodward needs to go NOW.

Ole can go if he also thought we didn't need midfielders or a striker.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It is yeah. I mean, I don't agree though. Why is that we're the only team that seem to have to consider bringing in mental help for our players? Wouldn't the better option be to think "you know what, this lad doesn't have the right mentality to play for a prestigious club like this". That's how most big clubs would deal with players who lacked the right mentality to succeed there, not pamper them and treat them with kid gloves. These are grown men, not youth team players. The majority of them have been here a good while now, some for what seems like a decade.

But yeah, I see the point he's trying to make and accept it's not absolving anyone of anything.

Haha "mental help" makes it sound much worse than it is!


I think both approaches are correct. Some people just don't have the mentality to make it and should be cut loose, and there are others who have untapped potential that can be coaxed out of them via psychology.


For instance, I think a lot of the work Klopp does with his players is mental, and he has a tactical coach (previously Buvac, now Pep Lijnders) helping him with the training. That's how he's able to make average players perform above their level, and make his team more than the sum of its individuals. But at the same time, some players just didn't have the mentality he was looking for. Eg. Daniel Sturridge, or Mamadou Sakho, and he had to cut them loose.


SAF himself being the ultimate example, I think there is a lot of psychology that can be applied to sports, and judging by our team's mentality, they do seem to be lacking in that area right now.

 

[MV12]

Shame your rare post consists of nothing but a bunch of cliches, just like Ole’s post match interviews.
You don’t get to build “your team” whilst losing football matches left and right when it’s evident he doesn’t really have any tactics to implement, the world doesn’t work that way, not where there’s a lot of money involved, not at this level.
He’s been here since last December, and he won’t last past this December.

Shame your post is nothing but a bunch of narrow minded, shortsighted rhetoric, just like most of the glory hunting fans that smear this forum with their whinging and moaning.

There's a bigger picture to see here, and many posters have pointed it out very succinctly.. To me it's obvious. If you can't see it then what can I or anyone else say?

 

[Random Task]

It is yeah. I mean, I don't agree though. Why is that we're the only team that seem to have to consider bringing in mental help for our players? Wouldn't the better option be to think "you know what, this lad doesn't have the right mentality to play for a prestigious club like this". That's how most big clubs would deal with players who lacked the right mentality to succeed there, not pamper them and treat them with kid gloves. These are grown men, not youth team players. The majority of them have been here a good while now, some for what seems like a decade.

But yeah, I see the point he's trying to make and accept it's not absolving anyone of anything.

I'm sure these poor delicate flowers can take some consolation from their 6-figure salaries.