- Apologies if my response was condescending.
- I don't think we can put everyone in the same basket. There's those that fully support regardless of result, others that support him but may have/are losing faith, and others that simply want him gone. My guess is individuals holding all three viewpoints will watch every game of ours and want the club to succeed. So I'd personally consider them to be supporters. I mean, nearly everybody wanted Moyes gone. We can't just eliminate their existence among the supporter base. But I suppose the last category no longer supports OLE.
- I maintain that both Ole and LVG cared. They haven't gotten to the top of their profession by being indifferent. They haven't won CL and top league titles by being there half baked. They werent fans but they definitely cared. No offense but our fans care too much about caring. When a manager fails he didn't care. When players fail they aren't bothered. I'd propose that in both cases they simply weren't good enough.
- And I simply cannot see merits of an argument that a manager is completely not accountable "becuase hr wasn't backed" (which he was). Any judgment is moot? Really? So Ole can just do whatever the hell he wants this season and nothing matters. So I could walk in there, relegate Manchester United and claim I'm the clearly the best manager around becuase my owners didn't spend 250 million instead of 150 million? Come on now. Ole spent money this summer. And like every manager, he can not and will not escape accountability. He has to perform. Every manager in the league has to perform. If this is out approach towards judging a professional, half the managers in the league should be absolved from criticism. Whether you feel the judgement should be more lenient is another thing.
- And no, sacking him wouldn't solve anything. But IF he proves to be the wrong manager (I still think he should get 4/5 more months), then removing him will be right decision. Just like Sanchez not starting for us as a right winger wouldn't solve everything but replacing him is necessary. And replacing him with Jadon Sancho would be a huge step in the right direction
Perhaps it's my error, but honestly when the same people are polluting this thread with their criticisms even when we win, I just can't take this argument seriously. I agree that managers aren't beyond criticism, and Moyes was a perfect case in point, but those managers who eventually went were at least given some rope with which they could hang themselves (besides Moyes, who did have the reigning champions at his disposal). Ole simply hasn't. The little bit of rope he has had, he's used it to improve the defence significantly. He literally hasn't had the chance to imprint his ethos on to the team because a lot of these players are just not fit for purpose for a variety of reasons. If I was to call many of these people anything, it would probably be that they are consumers of the product that is Manchester United, rather than actual supporters. Supporters would actually support the team and the club through the hard times as well as the good. They'd encourage rather than mindlessly criticise. They would also look at the wider and deeper context rather than just moan about results.
Re LvG, I'm only going by what Mitten has said on his time there - someone who does know people at the club, and hasn't been afraid to criticise them when it has gone wrong but as his piece in the Athletic shows, is also a supporter at heart. Jose (I'm assuming you meant him rather than Ole) didn't care. His team lineups against Southampton and West Ham showed that. A more selfish manager would be impossible to find. Equally, you may have a point that we put too much stock in caring, but speaking as a matchgoing fan. I actually am bothered that the XI on the pitch would actually care and that the management team are united with the fans in their aims. I don't necessarily care about success, I just want to go to the games and enjoy them. I want to be entertained, and like Neville said, I just want to like the team.
Well, what do you call taking the team that finished 6th last season, and then literally weakening it by taking out Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini, and Herrera and not even come close to replacing them? Do you expect Ole to actually get us anywhere near the Top 4 with that squad? My hope is that the younger players come in and develop to take over some of those spots in the squad, but it is definitely hope rather than expectation. The one area where Ole did manage to get players in for, is the one area which has improved markedly. You also can't just say £150m and say that he should be expected to challenge. £150m went a damn sight further in 2014/15 and 2016/17 as you well know. You also have to factor in the net cost of the outlay this season, where Lukaku essentially paid for c.90% of Maguire. It doesn't look so extravagant now, does it? For me, the season is a free hit because I have gone in to it with zero expectations. For the club, I'm sure there are targets, such as EL or getting Top 4 (the latter is very much less likely than the former) but honestly, I would hope that they have the self-awareness to see the hand that they have dealt him, and be lenient on him if we finish 5th or 6th and see some sort of progression in terms of style of play and the development of the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong and Garner for example. Personally though, I wouldn't be majorly fussed if we don't see much progress in terms of playing style for example, cos this squad is ill-suited to Ole in terms of its application and professionalism, and after the gutting of it during the summer it's debateable if they'll even provide us to get to 6th, let alone Top 4.
4 or 5 more months is not going to tell us anything. It's an entirely arbitrary timescale because this squad, which was already deficient, has been hollowed out and it wasn't exactly his choice to let them leave without replacements, was it? I mean, he's actually been on record and said that, but we don't exactly need him to spell it out for us - it should be plain to anyone that this is the case. Except, however the agenda posters who latch on to everything and anything he says at one time, and ignore his statements at others, depending on which suits their narrative. He needs to be given the chance to build the squad in his image and he needs to clean up 6 years worth of mess created by the 4 different managers before him. He's barely done a third of what he's needed to do. If, after buying and shaping his midfield and attack we're still in dire straits for example, then a judgement can be made, but right now? With a squad that isn't really his? It's stupid.
I mean, look at how many people on here and on social media think Mata is his favourite - he barely featured under Ole last season, but it hasn't stopped that view taking hold simply because of how small the squad is and the injuries to Martial, Pogba and Lingard. But all that is ignored, because it suits these agenda posters to say that Ole reverts to the older players and his talk of giving youth a chance is bollocks, even though when his squad is fully fit it is the youngest in the league. And when those younger players are played, we see complaints that the even younger ones aren't played. And as Astana showed, when those guys are played and haven't immediately hit the heights, Ole gets even more pelters and some even go to the extent of saying the 17-19 year old lads are shit(!)
And yet, you think these people are supporters...
I'm Ole in but that's brilliant