Klopp came with a pedigree taking a Dortmund team building it and competing at the high level. He took on one of the best Bayern teams as well.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Klopp came with a pedigree taking a Dortmund team building it and competing at the high level. He took on one of the best Bayern teams as well.
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/m...uthampton-manchester-united-tactical-analysis
Take a glance at it.
When the opposition shores up the midfield we become devoid of ideas. It's no coincidence. Our attacking game is very predictable and very static.
If we try to build up we don't really have any movement or direction in our attacking game and often we end up losing the ball.
Our only good plays in the attacking third this season so far is when the opposition is pressing us leaving some space behind and in midfield and also when we can actually move the ball at pace.
Now this is of course very different to what Ole wanted initially (the high press). Pressing high and us getting possession back means the opposition reshapes quickly and we're back to square one - devoid of space and not much options in the attacking third because we haven't really developed any moves since 9 months.
If the opposition doesn't want to press us(albeit have to say Soton could easily punish us in the beginning of that game) again it's easy to counter our attack by blocking the central area and not allowing passing lanes in inside channels. We can opt for the wing, but we don't move the ball quickly enough and again the opposition reshapes quickly to limit the space.
The center is pretty wank. Probably the worst movement from a top team in any top league. We don't stretch the opposition line, we don't drag defenders off their zone and it's pretty easy to defend against.
Our best bet is to force a defender foul us in the box, or use the space left behind on counter when we have a slightly deeper line.
All in all it becomes a mish mash of a system and styles, a lot of huffing and puffing and running, without any idea of what we're actually trying to achieve.
and just to put it into more perspective:
these are the dispossessed stats since the beginning of the season.
We're leading the pack with 7 more turnovers compared to the 2nd and the margin has increased since game 1.
Last edited:
Even with forgetting the tactical side for a second, I believe if he wasn't such a good player for the club in the past with some legendary moments we would've seen more complaints about his lack of charisma and his dour demeanor on the sidelines which is a huge problem for the manager of a club this size.
He just looks to be very uninspiring, no different than the likes of Hughes and Moyes who always face the same accusations.
He just looks to be very uninspiring, no different than the likes of Hughes and Moyes who always face the same accusations.
Exactly. The club, our fans and the media need to shake this whole weird double standard when it comes to United.
No one cares when other clubs do it. Chelsea chop and change managers and still win trophies quite consistently. Now I don't wanna be Chelsea, but it shows how this weird narrative that changing underperforming managers will equal continued failure.
What other top teams settle for an average manager in the hope they become good? Actually what other team full stop would do that?
I'm not saying sack Ole tomorrow, but if by the end of this calendar year we're still not seeing any improvements, people have to get over the fact things need to change.
I'm not saying sack Ole tomorrow, but if by the end of this calendar year we're still not seeing any improvements, people have to get over the fact things need to change.
Thanks, that is very informative.
The reason we looked good V Chelsea and parts of Wolves and Southampton is that they pressed us and gave us space so we got the ball into Pogba and others and they freed the 3 up front.
But you are correct, we look lost no pattern of play, I can almost predict what United will do.
Pass pass pass go wide, either pump a ball into the box with no one there or recycle the ball back into Matic / Maguire and pass pass without any risk. Where has the one touch / two touch football outside the penalty box gone?
Honestly. If results were crap but I noticed a style of play emerging I’d say give him time. People say LVG was dull , but I think he came to play Pep like football, quickly realised he didn’t have the players and adapted. Then in his second season he again started playing attacking football based on the FB bombing forward, but as soon as Shaw got injured it stopped working because he didn’t have the players.
Anyways. Regardless of whether he was attacking or defensive, we noticed his style very quickly. Same with Mourinho, clearly defensive but didn’t take long for his style to become noticeable ... or look at Biesla at Leeds last season. Didn’t even spend huge but immediately people saw the change and in his case it came with results.
He's missing his starting striker, back up striker, best midfielder and first choice leftback. He lost his 2nd striker in the second half. How do you expect any gameplan to survive that when the squad is paper thin to begin with? The margin of error for this squad is smaller than any other squad because of serious incompetence at planning.
Agreed, and before the West Ham game I was on here saying NO OLE has a style of High press fast football but the West Ham game put me back into my senses into realising that Ole has a style ONLY when teams press us.
But 5 games in, every team in the league now knows how to play against us, sit back and we will create nothing and do us on the break. Worryingly, the team doesnt even have to be good defensively, we cannot break a team like Astana down.
I thought we will see some fast passing football but clearly I was wrong, it seems every player has been told to take 3/4 touches before doing anything.
Yes, exactly this!
When the opposition gives us space behind their midfield line and space to work with we can be dangerous in attack.
This however is not some tactical masterplan, because what we do in such scenarios is just pass into space, the one with the ball keeps his head high to spot the free runner.
We have players to exploit those passes and we have players (mainly Pogba) to release the pass from the center.
However to create some kind of tactical blueprint - this means you have to have a deeper line and soak pressure bring the opposition attackers in your own half(like Soton did), then pass in the free lanes by either overlapping the press or go wide to the full backs.
It won't be a very viable plan in the long run because top teams City, Pool will most likely punish us, whilst other teams will not press us that high - they will just shore the center and press our midfielders which is easily a good plan to force us into a mistake (we have made more than any other team in the league) and then hit us on the counter.
This style is also very prone to blowing up as soon as we have someone like Pogba injured or our forwards (those two areas we're very short at).
The main issue is that we have no plan B - in a way ever since March, as soon as the opposition shores the midfield and blocks the center we have no option but rather some tumble and fumble in the box or the opposition players making series of mistakes to let us in the box.
What if we do nothing but change the manager at the end of the year? What if a new manager comes in like Tuchel or Poch and we have the exact same transfer window as last and results are exactly the same. Do we just keep doing the same thing over and over? My point being, if we're going to do the same thing over and over, why not keep Ole? If the board will not change their ways, it really doesn't matter who the manager is.
What was so well coached about West Ham? They took their one chance and a free kick which should have been saved.
Mata and Maguire s chances were much easier
Because we should have one quality element, instead of settling for mediocrity. It's a fair point, and I want changes all the way through the club, but sticking with Ole just because the rest is a mess doesn't really bring us any further forward.
I haven't read the last dozen pages here but there was a bit of #OleOut after the humiliation at the feet of West Ham so I'll respond to that.
It would be a colossal mistake for the club to sack Ole now or even if we suffer another few bad results. Clearly his leash is not infinite and I can't advise fellow caftards how long the leash should be, but this is no time to abandon Ole's project.
If we're going to be honest, we've suffered a bit of bad luck so far this season, although to be sure we're nowhere near being able to compete for one of the top two spot -- but all of us knew that going into the season, didn't we?
The bad luck started with the two missed pk's which caused us 4 dropped points. Put those 4 points in our column and we're a respectable 3rd place with 12 points. Then injuries to Bailly Shaw, Martial, Pogba and now Rashford. (Bailly too, I suppose.) Even with all those players in top form we're not a top two side but we're probably good for at least 1 more point in the column. Still, nowhere close to Liverpool of course.
The challenge for Ole is to grow his young players like Greenwood, Gomes and Tuanzebe while still managing a CL return next season.
I'm in the camp that says we should have bought Bruno, but I acknowledge that doing so might have closed off the potential for growth for Gomes. Maybe so, but if we have one glaring weak link right now it's at 10 and neither Lingard nor Mata have the ability to deliver at a sufficiently high level for us in that role. Both are squad player material and should be brought on to close matches out or in the event of an injury crisis.
That said, once Ole believed he had a player in Lingard who could get the job done while Gomes grows into the role the die was cast and our creativity against clubs which defend intelligently against us is virtually nonexistent.
We'll discuss transfer possibilities in another thread, but the point I want to make here is that we may have a manager problem but we definitely have a squad strength problem. Yes, we have an executive management problem but there's nothing anyone can do about that except executive management itself.
It would be a colossal mistake for the club to sack Ole now or even if we suffer another few bad results. Clearly his leash is not infinite and I can't advise fellow caftards how long the leash should be, but this is no time to abandon Ole's project.
If we're going to be honest, we've suffered a bit of bad luck so far this season, although to be sure we're nowhere near being able to compete for one of the top two spot -- but all of us knew that going into the season, didn't we?
The bad luck started with the two missed pk's which caused us 4 dropped points. Put those 4 points in our column and we're a respectable 3rd place with 12 points. Then injuries to Bailly Shaw, Martial, Pogba and now Rashford. (Bailly too, I suppose.) Even with all those players in top form we're not a top two side but we're probably good for at least 1 more point in the column. Still, nowhere close to Liverpool of course.
The challenge for Ole is to grow his young players like Greenwood, Gomes and Tuanzebe while still managing a CL return next season.
I'm in the camp that says we should have bought Bruno, but I acknowledge that doing so might have closed off the potential for growth for Gomes. Maybe so, but if we have one glaring weak link right now it's at 10 and neither Lingard nor Mata have the ability to deliver at a sufficiently high level for us in that role. Both are squad player material and should be brought on to close matches out or in the event of an injury crisis.
That said, once Ole believed he had a player in Lingard who could get the job done while Gomes grows into the role the die was cast and our creativity against clubs which defend intelligently against us is virtually nonexistent.
We'll discuss transfer possibilities in another thread, but the point I want to make here is that we may have a manager problem but we definitely have a squad strength problem. Yes, we have an executive management problem but there's nothing anyone can do about that except executive management itself.
You can’t be losing matches left and right and be given time on the basis that it isn’t your team (whatever that means), not at this level you don’t.
Pretty much what everybody else will be doing setting up against us. They didn't press high but blocked our CM options and Maguire and Lindelof booted it forward more often than not.
We set up quite deep which was easy for them to defend against us.
West ham are not a possession based team so just blocking our central options and exploiting their chances would do it. Simple but effective.
I am no way near #oleout but can you tell me what this project is? because what he is saying and how we are playing are 180 degrees apart!
Amen to this. Rather have a crap board with a world class manager instead of no world class manager because people think the board is inept.
You're making the mistake that the fanbase online and the attention seeking twats on the fan cams are the same as the matchgoing crowd. They're not. The vast majority of people who go to games look down on the latter sort especially.
Klopp also got Mainz relegated before he joined Dortmund. Imagine if Dortmund gave up on him after his first rough patch there?
In his first season with Dortmund, Klopp won his first trophy with the club after defeating German champions Bayern Munich to claim the 2008 German Supercup. He led the club to a sixth-place finish in his first season in charge.
Because Ole isn't the right man to take us forward whatever crap the board and Woodward are. Even if we get a Dof and new owners, Ole will still need to go. He's out of his depth here.
The injuries all at once are a little unfortunate, i'll grant you that (although you could say it's due to the training we're doing), but we haven't been unlucky otherwise. And i fail to see how missing pens are bad luck, tbh.
The Supercup... Ffs, a glorified preseason friendly! That he took them to 6th is more telling. Yet look what they did afterwards.
Look Ole may or may not be the right man for the job in the long term. That's totally fair to raise concerns about, but he's gotten rid of so many players who needed to go, and hasn't been backed on the incomings at all. He's already sorted the defence to such a degree that last year's POTY is now arguably our weakest link back there. He needed more from Woodward in terms of midfield and attacking options but he never got it.
He needs to be backed to continue this rebuild. Jones, Matic, Smalling and Sanchez need to be gotten rid of permanently, and we need to finally see some reinforcement in midfield and attack. If we're still in a mess after that point, then questions can be raised. But when you look at that team we put out yesterday, did anyone seriously think it would be different? Tactics aren't going to turn Matic, Mata and Young in to KDB, Bernardo, and Cancelo. We can play with all the will in the world to be attacking and proactive, but a lot of these players simply aren't of the required standard and it speaks volumes that the previous manager was happy to keep them on and even brought some of them in.
He was clearly improving them year after year. He finished 6th in his first season, then 5th, then made them back to back champions. There was nothing to give up on.
Also Mainz isn't a top side. He was there for 7 years and promoted them in the first place.
Look at the little fella trying to be clever with quoting out of context 
I stand by every word! And i stand by pointing out posts as this one you made as embarrassing.
A quick google search will tell you about all the players and youngsters that are in awe being coached by him, and how much they think he has helped them. Every one of them!
On what basis you make yet another reactionary post and piss on the manager and club only God knows. Im sure you have been to Carrington daily to make a post like that. No mate, you are absolutely clueless. And if you can't see what the club is trying to do, then even blind as a bat. West Ham game was crap! There will be more like it. But in every other game it has been easy to see what the club, manager and players are trying to implement.
As for your other post about credentials. I didn't post i watched a lot of football to be clever. Its just like it reads. You can see similar problems with rhytm, runs and passes in all them european top clubs. No, it dosent mean their managers and coaches are shit. It means the haven't got going yet, and some of them are implementing new systems.
As for telling me to be careful who you call what. You might want to take up on your own advice there fella, and maybe have a few words with your collaborate doom and gloom attention seekers. Taking the piss on everything the club stand for might even bite back some day.
And a comment on Klopp and Pep? No, they didn't get time because of their credentials. They got time because they had a plan that the club believe in. Just like Man Utd have with Ole. IT was the same type of people screaming Klopp and Pep out at the time. They could`nt see what they where trying to do. Klopp even got a bashing for all the injuries. People said the english game wasn't for them etc.. That went on for some time. I guess we now know who got the last laugh.
Last edited:
@Wolff I won't bother with you. I hope you are restricted to 5 insults (posts) for a long time before you learn how to engage in dialogue. You can go back insulting other posters since that makes you happy
There's no context in calling other posters idiots and I hope you get dealt soon.
There's no context in calling other posters idiots and I hope you get dealt soon.
But yet we still had better chances than them, the only difference was we didn't take them.
The problem is that i can't see any philosophy coming from Ole. High pressing football, Tiki Taka or Counter attacking? It is nothing duel with the quality of the squad.
However from what i can see, all the tactic build up, daily training, match day conduct are mainly relying on M. Phelan and coaches. So let say Ole really rebuild a quality squad in two to three years, i really doubt his tactic weakness can lead us back to trophy.
However from what i can see, all the tactic build up, daily training, match day conduct are mainly relying on M. Phelan and coaches. So let say Ole really rebuild a quality squad in two to three years, i really doubt his tactic weakness can lead us back to trophy.
@Wolff I won't bother with you. I hope you are restricted to 5 insults (posts) for a long time before you learn how to engage in dialogue. You can go back insulting other posters since that makes you happy
There's no context in calling other posters idiots and I hope you get dealt soon.
No problem youngster. Check out what Gordon Hill called posters like yourself. No doubt it will bite you the the ass eventually..@Wolff I won't bother with you. I hope you are restricted to 5 insults (posts) for a long time before you learn how to engage in dialogue. You can go back insulting other posters since that makes you happy
There's no context in calling other posters idiots and I hope you get dealt soon.
Ive posted your quote twice as an example. There isn't any way sensible to engage that kind of statement. You can only laugh at it.
And there isn't any way to engage post like "i dont blame Ole, it isn't his fault hi is inept etc" The only thing you can do is laugh at it. It has no context, it has no substance. Its just people taking a piss and feeding on negative energy. Thats all. And looking for attention. Best of luck fella
@Wolff I won't bother with you. I hope you are restricted to 5 insults (posts) for a long time before you learn how to engage in dialogue. You can go back insulting other posters since that makes you happy
There's no context in calling other posters idiots and I hope you get dealt soon.
Don't bother. The forum has been swarmed by some Top Reds who think of themselves as superior to other and trying to teach everyone the right way to support the club, even though I'm sure they were slaughtering everyone in the club under the previous 3 managers.
This pretty much. For all the board's fault, we have spent an awful lot of money on dross.
Even if we get oil money, there has to be some level of managerial quality to get us to the title. So its imperative that we have a world class manager given our board's standards.
No problem youngster .... It has no context, it has no substance. Its just people taking a piss and feeding on negative energy. Thats all. And looking for attention. Best of luck fella
I tell you what Wolff, I can see context in all arguments, and I actually almost agree with some of your points but I can’t see any context in how you’re interacting with people whose opinion you don’t agree with.
I would argue that if anyone here is seeking attention it is you with your unnecessary bombast and vitriol, no need for it fella.
- Apologies if my response was condescending.
- I don't think we can put everyone in the same basket. There's those that fully support regardless of result, others that support him but may have/are losing faith, and others that simply want him gone. My guess is individuals holding all three viewpoints will watch every game of ours and want the club to succeed. So I'd personally consider them to be supporters. I mean, nearly everybody wanted Moyes gone. We can't just eliminate their existence among the supporter base. But I suppose the last category no longer supports OLE.
- I maintain that both Ole and LVG cared. They haven't gotten to the top of their profession by being indifferent. They haven't won CL and top league titles by being there half baked. They werent fans but they definitely cared. No offense but our fans care too much about caring. When a manager fails he didn't care. When players fail they aren't bothered. I'd propose that in both cases they simply weren't good enough.
- And I simply cannot see merits of an argument that a manager is completely not accountable "becuase hr wasn't backed" (which he was). Any judgment is moot? Really? So Ole can just do whatever the hell he wants this season and nothing matters. So I could walk in there, relegate Manchester United and claim I'm the clearly the best manager around becuase my owners didn't spend 250 million instead of 150 million? Come on now. Ole spent money this summer. And like every manager, he can not and will not escape accountability. He has to perform. Every manager in the league has to perform. If this is out approach towards judging a professional, half the managers in the league should be absolved from criticism. Whether you feel the judgement should be more lenient is another thing.
- And no, sacking him wouldn't solve anything. But IF he proves to be the wrong manager (I still think he should get 4/5 more months), then removing him will be right decision. Just like Sanchez not starting for us as a right winger wouldn't solve everything but replacing him is necessary. And replacing him with Jadon Sancho would be a huge step in the right direction
Honestly, it's easy to compare ourselves with other clubs, but the situations aren't similar. We need to focus inward, and stop trying to find similarities with other clubs who may not be in a similar situation with us.
What we need to realize is as a club, we lack direction and leadership, and as such, we need a DOF-like figure as manager. A lot of our issues have stemmed from not having anyone in this position, with Ed Bleeding Woodward being the closest stand-in. We desperately need this void filled, and this is something Ole is showing he is good for, as his ruthless yet measured approach has so far demonstrated.
Now considering that, there are definitely issues with Ole, though I think issues most commonly being complained about are things that are rectifiable. For instance, with regards to tactics and purchases, he could learn from his mistakes and hire the right people around him, scouting and football-wise, to help the speed and accuracy of his decision making. The key being he must be afforded time to learn from his mistakes.
The issue which is hardest to solve, the one which we have been plagued with for years and which still plagues us today, is substandard, comfortable players on exorbitant wages outstaying their welcome due to rotation of managers. That will probably not be solved by sacking and hiring. In fact, a genius manager could turn up and still be disappointed by poor players and sacked. It's only by rectifying the structure around the club that it can be solved, but I don't believe Woodward or the Glazers can do this. We need our manager to do it for us.
In that sense, as I said before, we need our manager to be a DOF-like figure who hires the right people around him. That's how we've operated as a club, and, especially under the Woodward and Glazer regime, that's what's most necessary for us IMO. In that sense, I can definitely see Ole in that kind of hybrid role provided (i) he learns and starts making the right decisions, and (ii) he is fully supported and given time to make the right changes.
Last edited:
Wouldn't call it better chances tbh. Maguire miss was a common one when there are many bodies in front of him. Mata was clear cut and the best chance we had the whole game. Not really something to brag about as a whole.
I'm not sure why you would consider us having better chances overall. That Noble volley just outside the box was a carbon copy of the way we conceded against Wolves and West Ham had numerous free kicks outside the box before scoring one. It has been coming.
It was a scrappy match and exactly the type WH would want in the beginning.
No problem youngster. Check out what Gordon Hill called posters like yourself. No doubt it will bite you the the ass eventually..
Ive posted your quote twice as an example. There isn't any way sensible to engage that kind of statement. You can only laugh at it.
And there isn't any way to engage post like "i dont blame Ole, it isn't his fault hi is inept etc" The only thing you can do is laugh at it. It has no context, it has no substance. Its just people taking a piss and feeding on negative energy. Thats all. And looking for attention. Best of luck fella
You are a bit of a prick mate, sorry. Vast majority of people on here are saying the same thing, admins are seemingly giving you a free ride, so let's see if I get the same leeway is it - you're a fecking idiot.
The Noble volley isn't a good chance. Neves tried scoring from outside the box all last season from open play and didn't manage it once but it's just the way things are going that it finally came off for him against us. The same with Cresswell, he won't score another free kick all season.
We were terrible (as i expected with our line up) but West Ham were nothing special either.
- Status