Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Di Maria's angel]

It's almost like in between that we won loads of games playing good football and knocked out PSG in the Champions League.

feck me sideways, we narrowly lost the first leg of a tie against Barcelona and the merry band of moaners want blood for it.

It's not all sunshine and roses, much work clearly needs to be done still, and there are huge issues in terms of the squads quality to compete at the top level.

All of that can be true without it being a disaster that we're still in with a chance of making it to the last four of the Champions League for the first time in god knows how long.

Some of you are acting like we got hit for six or seven last night.

Well we won 15, drew 5 and lost 4 in between Turin and Paris and scored 53 goals in that time.

No-ones calling for blood. I certainly ain't. I'm just calling yesterday for what it is.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Does Ole have the same "Top 4 or out clause"? Might save us from an extra two years of this.

Only Joking. I think he is doing decent despite the losses.

 

[Still ill]

Its odd. We played a very similar game against Juventus earlier in the season. Lost 0-1, it was a crap performance then as it was yesterday.

Good performances are the games in Turin and Paris not the shite we witnessed yesterday.

Well that's nonsense. We were dominated for large periods of both those games and created almost nothing in Turin at least. We hung in and took our chances. Last night we had a measure of control for about 70 minutes of that game. Again, we created very little, but we had numerous free kicks in the same range as Matas vs Juve, we just wasted them. Last night was a better performance than either of those games, just lacking the right decisions and execution in the last third. Control is important if we want to compete. We had a measure of it last night. That's progress.

 

[el3mel]

Its odd. We played a very similar game against Juventus earlier in the season. Lost 0-1, it was a crap performance then as it was yesterday.

Good performances are the games in Turin and Paris not the shite we witnessed yesterday.

People can't get that Barca barely put any effort yesterday and managed to get a comfortable win. We couldn't force them out of their second gear, so really thinking that was a good performance means rock bottom expectations.

I'm all for Ole but the expectations are starting to drop massively in this forum the past couple of weeks. Some look like they're totally fine with us getting a top 4 only spot next season even though several months ago most of them was thinking the squad is good enough for a challenge ?

I don't get this. Not much consistency here.

 

[Water Melon]

Hindsight is golden, but we were a bit shy at the beginning of the game yesterday. The worst thing was that we conceded, while trying to be cautious. Shit happens, we had our share of luck against PSG, we did not have much of it yesterday. I am really curious to see what happens at Camp Nou next week, as we have nothing to lose and will have to attack against a team that keeps the ball very well. Could be either a cracking game, a proper thriller if we score early or a dull affair should we concede first.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Well that's nonsense. We were dominated for large periods of both those games and created almost nothing in Turin at least. We hung in and took our chances. Last night we had a measure of control for about 70 minutes of that game. Again, we created very little, but we had numerous free kicks in the same range as Matas vs Juve, we just wasted them. Last night was a better performance than either of those games, just lacking the right decisions and execution in the last third. Control is important if we want to compete. We had a measure of it last night. That's progress.

Just go read the post match thread vs Juventus. The absolute opposite of the nonsense now being said about that match.

 

[Snafu17]

Feels like football is just so unnecessarily complicated these days. Look at Liverpool, for instance, one may argue their football isn't anywhere near as good or as exciting as last season - they're definitely not as attacking and flamboyant as they have been previously. But they get the job done and if they win the league, no one will really care about the way they got there. There's so many stats, so much analysis that fans almost forget that winning is the most important aspect of the sport. We won in Turin and in Paris when it really mattered - both times, the odds were stacked against us but we overcame these challenges and actually put in performances worthy of the result. It's a farce that people actually believe yesterday was a good performance and does a disservice to our actual good performances.

What are you talking about? The three games were entirely different. We weren't solid at all in Turin. Juventus went for the kill a bunch of times, created loads of chances, but they were just unable to finish. We came alive, looked a bit threatening in the last ten minutes when they dropped back, but that was a straight up smash and grab. The only two real chances we created were the two goals, one of which was just a fluke. That just wasn't a good performance at all.

PSG was similar, we were overrun until the last ten minutes, but we were a lot more solid defensively, PSG created a lot less and crucially we also had half the side missing. We were a lot more active against Barca, managed to pin them for a good part of the game, but we were just terrible in the last third.

None of the three games were good enough, but they were obviously different. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes could tell you that.

 

[Still ill]

Hindsight is golden, but we were a bit shy at the beginning of the game yesterday. The worst thing was that we conceded, while trying to be cautious. Shit happens, we had our share of luck against PSG, we did not have much of it yesterday. I am really curious to see what happens at Camp Nou next week, as we have nothing to lose and will have to attack against a team that keeps the ball very well. Could be either a cracking game, a proper thriller if we score early or a dull affair should we concede first.

Or the complete opposite. We only need one as things stand to be back in it. We certainly won't be throwing the kitchen sink at it early on. If we go two down in the tie, then we'll have to open up a bit.

 

[GM K]

I think it is too early to hang Ole for much. He needs to be backed and given time. We need to avoid making mistakes of recent past. It is clear that our prior problems were never just the managers. Until we realise and fix this, we will keep going in circles.

 

[Alex99]

Or the complete opposite. We only need one as things stand to be back in it. We certainly won't be throwing the kitchen sink at it early on. If we go two down in the tie, then we'll have to open up a bit.

I'm not sure. A cautious approach didn't work out last night, and ultimately, we're likely to need to score two anyway. Can't see us going one up and holding on for extra-time. If we start from kick-off playing like we played after conceding, then we're in with a shout of causing another upset.

 

[passing-wind]

He will truly be judged after his transfers, full pre season and best season. Until then he is doing his best with somebody else's players.

So far there's been ups and downs - who would have thunk it?

The problem with the idealism behind this is Ole himself has recognised that the players "are quality bunch of individuals" . So to put it into perspective, this squad is the best squad of players Ole has managed in his career. In some areas he's even managed to ascertain a level of balance and consistency (centre half partnership's, the midfield trio) so its not that big of an influence.

My biggest issue with Ole is the lack of coaching directive consequently hindering the quality of football that is on display. Last few weeks our football has been Huddersfield esque and even beforehand we have only performed well in a singular handful of games. We cannot create chances, have no movement and aren't giving our attacking players the platforms and leverage to make an impact.

Those issues stem solely from what is being implemented in training and drilled, you do not need good players to play a viable standard of football that's going to win you games. All its taken is Pogba to not have much as an impact and our results and performances are in dissaray.

Ole when he started, mentioned teams having to fear us on the basis of what we can offer on the field. Thus far he's almost reclining into a Mourinho state of mind by consistently making adjustments to the oppositions threats, at the cost of limiting our own capabilities so it seems we are not set up to win games but to take a 50 50 result.

Van gaal was partially right with his analysis of solskjaer (especially in big games), we are becoming very defensively orientated and simply offering a transition of play counter attack to deflect the idea of being a negative outfit. Those are big big issues that will transpire into next season unless Ole changes the philosophy.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

What are you talking about? The three games were entirely different. We weren't solid at all in Turin. Juventus went for the kill a bunch of times, created loads of chances, but they were just unable to finish. We came alive, looked a bit threatening in the last ten minutes when they dropped back, but that was a straight up smash and grab. The only two real chances we created were the two goals, one of which was just a fluke. That just wasn't a good performance at all.

PSG was similar, we were overrun until the last ten minutes, but we were a lot more solid defensively, PSG created a lot less and crucially we also had half the side missing. We were a lot more active against Barca, managed to pin them back for most of the game, but we were just terrible in the last third.

None of the three games were good enough, but they were obviously different. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes could tell you that.

How exactly do you pin a team back with half their possession?

 

[Snafu17]

How exactly do you pin a team back with half their possession?

I edited my post after you managed to reply and I hope you know they don't count possession exclusively in the final third, but you're just completely missing the point here. You think we were more active against Juventus and PSG? Really?

 

[Sandikan]

4 defeats in 5 sounds really bad, but you can't magic limitations away.

I just hope this is a big eyeopener to our board and Ole of what needs doing this summer.

A similar summer to last year would speak volumes.

 

[Raw]

Just go read the post match thread vs Juventus. The absolute opposite of the nonsense now being said about that match.

Seems like after the first bunch of pages of post match hysteria, there's a lot of discussion about smash and grab. Which it was. Replay that match 10 times and we'd have lost the majority of them.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Seems like after the first bunch of pages of post match hysteria, there's a lot of discussion about smash and grab. Which it was. Replay that match 10 times and we'd have lost the majority of them.

We put in similar displays against Spurs and PSG. Won them both.

 

[GaryLifo]

I'm not sure what your expectations were, but I can tell you right now that they were unrealistic.

Agreed.

Apparently most of our players are shit and wouldn't get into any of our rivals' first 11. On the other hand, with these terrible players we should still have easily swept aside one of the best sides in Europe scoring two or three goals in the process.

It's cognitive dissonance at its most severe.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I edited my post after you managed to reply and I hope you know they don't count possession exclusively in the final third, but you're just completely missing the point here. You think we were more active against Juventus and PSG? Really?

Of course we were. In those games, we actually tried to create and finish chances. What on earth did we do yesterday? Other than the strange belief that we nullified a pretty poor Barcelona team.

 

[Snafu17]

Of course we were. In those games, we actually tried to create and finish chances. What on earth did we do yesterday? Other than the strange belief that we nullified a pretty poor Barcelona team.

In those games we scored goals from a brilliant free kick, a fluke of an own goal, a gift from a defender, a rebound from poor goalkeeping and a pen that came from a handball that was awarded for a shot that would go way over the bar. We barely had any other chances. All of these things could've randomly happened yesterday. We were creatively just as terrible but we had more luck and were a bit more effective in the final third.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

In those games we scored goals from a brilliant free kick, a fluke of an own goal, a gift from a defender, a rebound from poor goalkeeping and a pen that came from a handball that was awarded for a shot that would go way over the bar. We barely had any other chances. All of these things could've randomly happened yesterday. We creatively just as terrible as but we had more luck and were a bit more effective in the final third.

The intent was different, wouldn't you agree? The errors by the PSG players, for instance, were mostly enforced. We scored within the first 10 against PSG because of our positive intent from kick off. Yesterday, we started negatively and went 1-0 down by the 11th minute. I mean if you can't see that difference, then I can't help you. As for the Juve game, they had a bucket load of shots from outside the box and De Gea made two saves in the entire game - we also had far more possession in that game than we did yesterday which indicates our intent for an actual positive result.

 

[Gator Nate]

Our pressing was really good at times yesterday. We just lacked the final ball and were pretty wasteful in a final 3rd.

Yup. Barca had 24 clearances to our 7. We had 10 shots to their 5. Those stats don't come from not pressing. And frankly, I thought we did a pretty good job of making Messi mostly irrelevant.

As for those complaining about Young being on the field, what's the real alternative that wouldn't get some sort of negative reaction around here? Put Dalot in that position (which would be fine on its own) and who do you put up on the left mid? Whoever it is, you'd hear loud complaints about it. Nearly everyone on this team has limitations that Ole is trying to work around. Is Dalot a great fit for left mid? Hardly, but he's a good enough player in general that Ole gave him a shot at it. He probably won't do that again, lesson learned, but I think Ole has reached a point where he's just trying to keep talent on the field at the expense of position experience.

We're still in this thing. Before the PSG tie, many (most?) wondered how badly we'd be swept off the field. Halfway through the next round, against Barcelona (!), two goals away could get us through. And the level of second-guessing Ole's tactics is ratcheting up. Incredible...

 

[MisterLupus]

Getting results is the most important part of any match of course but it's equally true that you can get bad results despite a good performance and vice versa. I believe we've experienced both sides of that these last couple of weeks.

When it comes to everything else I have to say it's a healthy sign when people are happy despite a loss as that implies they're aware the positives that's been shown over the last couple of months and are no longer feeling disheartened by what they see - but it's also equally healthy that some supporters are feeling disgruntled every time fortune pisses on us as that too is a sign that expectations has been raised compared to what would be the case just a short while back (when nobody expected us to beat the top clubs in the league far less the top clubs in Europe).

But all that being said I feel a lot of fans should focus on what our job is - supporting the team - rather than acting as pundits. Try seeing it from a player's or a staff member's perspective - and ask yourself what motivates the most? Playing for a fanbase that's constantly nitpicking everything you do proclaiming you should be traded away first chance we get whenever things aren't up to their (often impossible) standards - always searching for reasons to criticise even on good days - or playing for a fanbase who's grateful for your efforts (despite them falling short of the mark) and who's main focus is trying to lift your spirits even when you've stumbled through shit and fallen face first into a donkey's ass?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have our opinions by the way - I'm just saying we're not in a position to criticise the team nor the management for failing at their tasks when we ourselves are neglecting ours. And our job as supporters is to promote and inspire our team - not degrade them - because that's what it takes to create the positive atmosphere under which most humans thrive (footballers included).

Our opposition and real pundits will do a good enough job of spewing toxicity I guarantee it - they don't need exposure to that stuff "at home" as well.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Agreed.

Apparently most of our players are shit and wouldn't get into any of our rivals' first 11. On the other hand, with these terrible players we should still have easily swept aside one of the best sides in Europe scoring two or three goals in the process.

It's cognitive dissonance at its most severe.

There's a good number of posters that just expect to win and when they do not they are like children. Look at the gulf in quality and tell me that another manager (Poch or whoever) would have beat Barcelona. I thought we played fairly well in the middle of the pitch for most of the game but just did not create scoring chances in the final third. Messi did not score, that's a mini miracle.

 

[Snafu17]

The intent was different, wouldn't you agree? The errors by the PSG players, for instance, were mostly enforced. We scored within the first 10 against PSG because of our positive intent from kick off. Yesterday, we started negatively and went 1-0 down by the 11th minute. I mean if you can't see that difference, then I can't help you. As for the Juve game, they had a bucket load of shots from outside the box and De Gea made two saves in the entire game - we also had far more possession in that game than we did yesterday which indicates our intent for an actual positive result.

No, of course I wouldn't. There was less intent if anything, the only difference being Barca held their bottle and were generally a lot more competent that either Juve or especially PSG when it came down to it. We pressured the Spaniards way more, but they managed to get through without any massive defensive mistakes, unlike PSG who gave us a couple of chances on a platter. Course we had more possession against Juventus, that's just the way they play, but they also had a lot more control than Barca did yesterday, until about 85th minute at least.

We had a bad start, I'll give you that. But we also had bad starts in the other two games, only in Paris we were given a goal. The idea that either of the two games versus PSG and Juve were anything more than smash and grabs is just some massive revisionism.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

People can't get that Barca barely put any effort yesterday and managed to get a comfortable win. We couldn't force them out of their second gear, so really thinking that was a good performance means rock bottom expectations.

I'm all for Ole but the expectations are starting to drop massively in this forum the past couple of weeks. Some look like they're totally fine with us getting a top 4 only spot next season even though several months ago most of them was thinking the squad is good enough for a challenge ?

I don't get this. Not much consistency here.

Remember when Jose said it was a miracle he got 2nd with this squad? And how infuriating it was to hear that.

Now we're simply humbled at the opportunity of losing respectably to one of the worst Barcas teams we've played.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

No, of course I wouldn't. There was less intent if anything, the only difference being Barca held their bottle and were generally a lot more competent that either Juve or especially PSG when it came down to it. We pressured the Spaniards way more, but they managed to get through without any massive defensive mistakes, unlike PSG who gave us a couple of chances on a platter. Course we had more possession against Juventus, that's just the way they play, but they also had a lot more control than Barca did yesterday, until about 85th minute at least.

We had a bad start, I'll give you that. But we also had bad starts in the other two games, only in Paris we were given a goal. The idea that either of the two games versus PSG and Juve were anything more than smash and grabs is just some massive revisionism.

What the feck are you on about. Pressured Barca how? Pressure them into what? They didnt break a sweat yesterday. Utterly bemusing to think we didnt play well in two of our biggest wins since 2008 yet played well in a drab affair which we lost.

 

[Celoti23-81]

4 defeats in 5 sounds really bad, but you can't magic limitations away.

I just hope this is a big eyeopener to our board and Ole of what needs doing this summer.

A similar summer to last year would speak volumes.

The scary thought of our next next 5 games is, it can easily become 8 defeats in 10. Hypothetically if that happens, that kind of form would never have got him the permanent job! Is it just pure coincidence that our form has massively dropped since contract negotiations began soon after beating PSG!

 

[Snafu17]

What the feck are you on about. Pressured Barca how? Pressure them into what? They didnt break a sweat yesterday. Utterly bemusing to think we didnt play well in two of our biggest wins since 2008 yet played well in a drab affair which we lost.

I specifically said yesterdays performance wasn't good enough, but yeah sure you can ignore it, you're quite comfortable doing that apparently. I mean, we did, there were large periods of the game when they weren't comfortable in possession at all, but sure you could argue that Rashford's lone, two second pressing on Kehler on the halfway line was somehow a sing of United being more active in Paris than yesterday, I guess.

You seem to be convinced that any win is automatically a good performance. We showed great spirit in both games yes, the PSG one was incredible in context even, but the idea that we had some incredible attacking intent in either of those games is just dumb.

 

[ash_86]

People can't get that Barca barely put any effort yesterday and managed to get a comfortable win. We couldn't force them out of their second gear, so really thinking that was a good performance means rock bottom expectations.

I'm all for Ole but the expectations are starting to drop massively in this forum the past couple of weeks. Some look like they're totally fine with us getting a top 4 only spot next season even though several months ago most of them was thinking the squad is good enough for a challenge ?

I don't get this. Not much consistency here.

We stopped Barca from imposing themselves. All our players stuck in and delivered a good enough performance. It was the difference in quality that showed at certain times. Take for example Barca's goal. How many people not named messi could deliver that kind of cross with 3 players surrounding him to the back post for suarez? Compare it with the times we had chances in the box and fluffed it or how many times Young had the ball in advanced spaces and produced a cross that hit the crowd. Teams like Barca provide only half chances and we need quality personnel to make/finish them. That was not prime Barca that we played yesterday, nor that was Prime Man Utd that we use to know. Take a look at our league standings since SAF retired and it will tell that we are an average team fighting to stay relevant . That's the truth. No one could fix us until we get quality players across the pitch.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think people are effected a bit too much by the results. If Shaw and de gea do not give away the first goal after a brilliant pass from Messi then it would be 0-0 and a decent enough result. With some luck we could have made that a 1-0 and people would have hailed it as a great performance.

Our attack was a bit blunt, but the rest we did do well.

 

[el3mel]

We stopped Barca from imposing themselves. All our players stuck in and delivered a good enough performance. It was the difference in quality that showed at certain times. Take for example Barca's goal. How many people not named messi could deliver that kind of cross with 3 players surrounding him to the back post for suarez? Compare it with the times we had chances in the box and fluffed it or how many times Young had the ball in advanced spaces and produced a cross that hit the crowd. Teams like Barca provide only half chances and we need quality personnel to make/finish them. That was not prime Barca that we played yesterday, nor that was Prime Man Utd that we use to know. Take a look at our league standings since SAF retired and it will tell that we are an average team fighting to stay relevant . That's the truth. No one could fix us until we get quality players across the pitch.

They didn't need to impose themselves did they ? They took what they wanted from the game away from home and returned to Spain happy about the result and not needing to put much effort. We put on max efforts and couldn't even manage 1 shot on target. That's not the definition of good performance for me as II said several times.

Agree on the quality part. I'm talking about the inconsistent people not those who always believed the squad wasn't good enough.

 

[Meller]

I think people are effected a bit too much by the results. If Shaw and de gea do not give away the first goal after a brilliant pass from Messi then it would be 0-0 and a decent enough result. With some luck we could have made that a 1-0 and people would have hailed it as a great performance.

Our attack was a bit blunt, but the rest we did do well.

How can you say this when they were all over us until they scored the goal? Our approach led to them scoring, we changed after that and so did they as they were happy with the 1-0 and probably pretty confident to keep that score, which proved correct. They attacked until they scored and then sat back (kind of), without even breaking a sweat all game. They were most likely even content with a 1-1 but as it turned out we never even got close.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

Apart from a few individual performances, Barca dealt with us quite comfortably.
What is slightly damning towards United is the fact this was a Barca side who have recently been involved in 3 games in 9 days.They had a 3 day rest before their trip to Manchester.
Uniteds last game,before last night, was 9 days ago.

 

[Ban]

We had a good game by our margins. Problem is we didn't trouble Barcelona and they were happy with one goal. That says a lot about the team. Ole has taken the team as far as he could and it needs a refurbishment. We changed the manager but the team still isn't good enough for anything more than a top 4 fight.

 

[dove]

Surprised by amount of people saying we played well. I thought Barca were very comfortable and we never looked like scoring. We caused them to make a few mistakes by pressing but that's about it. We looked more fresh as we had a solid 1 week of rest while Barca had a game on the weekend but we were still toothless. Lineup and subs were baffling as well.

 

[Mcking]

What the feck are you on about. Pressured Barca how? Pressure them into what? They didnt break a sweat yesterday. Utterly bemusing to think we didnt play well in two of our biggest wins since 2008 yet played well in a drab affair which we lost.

No way, our all round performance was much worse in Paris. We couldn't even get out of our half in that game and barely attacked in 100mins.

 

[ash_86]

They didn't need to impose themselves did they ? They took what they wanted from the game away from home and returned to Spain happy about the result and not needing to put much effort. We put on max efforts and couldn't even manage 1 shot on target. That's not the definition of good performance for me as II said several times.

Agree on the quality part. I'm talking about the inconsistent people not those who always believed the squad wasn't good enough.

Dalot probably 4 yards out should have hit the target, Rashford fluffed shot from 5 yards out should have hit the target. 3 good free kicks right at the edge of Again these all points to lack of quality in our players. We had chances in the game to get something out of it. Just that our players didn't capitalize on it. This could have been 1-1 and we'd be talking in a different tone. Performance was not as bada s it looks.

 

[el3mel]

Dalot probably 4 yards out should have hit the target, Rashford fluffed shot from 5 yards out should have hit the target. 3 good free kicks right at the edge of Again these all points to lack of quality in our players. We had chances in the game to get something out of it. Just that our players didn't capitalize on it. This could have been 1-1 and we'd be talking in a different tone. Performance was not as bada s it looks.

Agree on Dalot chance. That was our standout chance in this game. Still, shame we didn't test their keepers.

I'm not blaming Ole at all anyway. I wanted and still want him, but it's just weird how the expectations is getting massively down now from some. Some of us were pretty consistent that the squad is just severely lacking, but some were convincing us it's good enough for challenging and now looks like the opposite. Don't get it.

 

[Jim Beam]

The amount of fake people looming on this forum is just something else. Why someone cant say, that we were set as cowards from first minute, improved after they scored and then with a hindsight say how sub could be better, last part of the game we were way off. Why someone cant say that him playing fecking Young is on him or certain players getting extension etc. Why? Because he is at fecking wheel or what!?

On top of that, those people being called out as non supportive, making out how they called for his head and similar bullshit. This idolizing nonsense getting old. You think you showing more support by being deluded then those who point as certain aspects they have issue with? Cheek of people laughing at those clowns on RAWK.

Because we have to give our internet support to Ole. Because you have to support your manager even if he just wants to payday and then be quiet when even your dog realize you should not sack him, but that pretty much everything you attacked people here was bollocks (am guilty of that too tbf)

We are not good, we are avarage. I didn't mind last night game but ffs for the amount of money we spend all togethet looks pretty feckin shit if we are honest. Least Ole fault tbf.

 

[ash_86]

Agree on Dalot chance. That was our standout chance in this game. Still, shame we didn't test their keepers.

I'm not blaming Ole at all anyway. I wanted and still want him, but it's just weird how the expectations from some is getting massively down now from some. Some of us were pretty consistent that the squad is just severely lacking, but some were convincing us it's good enough for challenging and now looks like the opposite. Don't get it.

I see where you're getting at. Yeah, the squad was performing due to the new manager bounce which might have raised people's expectation of the squad. I'm hoping that we all agree now that the squad need some new quality addition. WHich was the need of the hour last year and even more this year.