Yes it is true about the owners but can you exactly tell me what is Ole tactical approach. We can't even beat Crystal Palace and bloody Soton. He's one of the problem. He is tactical clueless. I only support him to get rid of the deadwoods. But to move us further title challenge? Nahh not a chance he can do it even with new players.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Can't really disagree with any of that, and especially that bolded part is important imo. The question then is: What is considered "progress"? What metrics do we judge him on?
Ole is perfect in terms of understanding our philosophy and buying into it. Because he has little to lose as a manager so he is brave in trusting youth (why no Angel Gomes yet bough???) and in getting rid of deadwood and poisonous characters in the dressing-room.
However, that is also his biggest flaw. That he hasn’t been successful at the highest level before also means that he doesn’t think about the game inventively. He is too wedded to a 4-2-3-1, doesn’t read changing game conditions and is strangely resistant to adjusting his game plan.
Mason should have come on as soon as they scored their goal, replacing Pereira on the right. The Lingard and Matic substitutions were defensive ones, trying to hold the 1-0 lead when he should have gone for the jugular.
What if he is the right person as a DoF but not the right person to be manager?
However, that is also his biggest flaw. That he hasn’t been successful at the highest level before also means that he doesn’t think about the game inventively. He is too wedded to a 4-2-3-1, doesn’t read changing game conditions and is strangely resistant to adjusting his game plan.
Mason should have come on as soon as they scored their goal, replacing Pereira on the right. The Lingard and Matic substitutions were defensive ones, trying to hold the 1-0 lead when he should have gone for the jugular.
What if he is the right person as a DoF but not the right person to be manager?
No, making him DOF would be like converting Lingard to full back.
If he is not good enough, get rid.
Agreed!
We don't have a philosophy. To play young players is not a philosophy.
No, I don't know about lottery. But I do know a thing or two about Football.
You fail to see the main point I was trying to make. Signings or no Signings, we shouldn't have lost to Palace or drawn with Southampton with the current squad and Ole has failed to inspire the team. So Ole needs to be blamed with his mid game decisions or lack thereof.
How come do we still play 2 in midfield when opposition play 3 or 4? How come do we consider ourselves to be a counter-attacking team when we were unable to unlock Southampton's defense when they were leaving huge amount of space early in the game yesterday? How do we want to start scoring goals when our midfielders contribute a square root of feck all to our attacking play when opposition park the bus? Do we ever focus on our off the ball collective movement? Is DDG coached on when to come out for a cross or how to play from the back without putting his defenders under unnecessary pressure? Do we even fecking realize that it is a fecking team sport and we are supposed to be better than the other 11 professional footballers who we are facing week in week out, or do we believe that just because we are Man Utd other teams will just bend over and take their pants off? Will we become successful again just because we have our legendary ex-players in the coaching team or are we supposed to recruit the best of the best coaches, tacticians, analysts, fitness instructors and scouts out there?
The two in midfield is disconcerting as it is obviously affecting how Pogba plays. It might be the way he want us to play but surely we cannot do that until he has all the players he needs to play it effectively.
It's also quite contradictory to what he's said a couple of months ago when he said he'd build the team around Pogba. The statement was idiotic back then for me already but now he's simply contradicting himself.
Wouldn't want to go back to such a defensive manager but there aren't many options out there.
I wouldn't be hugely fond of him either, but he'd probably be a better option than OGS clearly.
Yeah you're not wrong.
I wish I could print this post and display it at each Old Trafford entrance. This is what I talk about all day long. The Glazers are running this club to the grave and we have match going fans who do nothing about it simply because they want our club to 'appear different' and win the 'we always patient' award. The Glazers will never have our interests at heart and even if we fans cannot buy out the club, at least make it so uncomfortable for them so they can feck off. Let them know we stand for something, we represent something and we have standards.
Even if we've tried almost variant of manager/head coach under the sun...it seems there's a common element missing amongst all four: progressive football. The only one who seemed to have some sort of tactical identity was LVG, and we all know the problems we had there.
It's easy for me (or any of us) to criticize sitting from outside, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to note that is the one gaping problem we have. Part of the blame does fall on the Glazers and Woodward for not heading in that direction and hiring appropriately, but they don't really have a say on that football that is played on the pitch (I hope).
I don't watch football as much as others, mainly due to lack of regular internet access and TV channels that show European football, but whenever I do watch matches from new coaches in different teams around Europe (Portuguese and Spanish leagues are big here) - I can kinda figure out how a team seems to play over the course of the match. Especially when a big team is playing a smaller one (relative to the league). I'd be hard-pressed to find someone who isn't a United supporter who could point ours out so easily.
Personally, I'd swallow all the draws and losses easier if I could see some progress being made or that attitude that made us - us in the modern era. I could tell we had both when I started supporting club due to Diego Forlan. That might have been the most difficult period in the SAF era after winning the first title in the modern era.
There are other posters here who said what I said much more eloquently and/or with much much football knowledge to back their arguments up. It's just all-around frustrating. But we keep supporting our team and hope for the best.
I don't get why he has pushed pogba back when our best run with him as am under solskjaer only.
And it's not like we have some great number 10s we have to accommodate either.
And it's not like we have some great number 10s we have to accommodate either.
These same players have been getting shocking results for 6 years . Yes not all have been there but as a group over the years we simply aren't good enough . We cant keep blaming managers . We missed 2 pens which would have got us more points is that the managers fault as well
That's laughable.
Isn't that what we did over a couple of seasons and the reason we are in this mess!
That is NOT how you rebuild Manchester United.
We have never had success doing it that way.
Worst start since 92/93. Seems the new way is successful eh?
Has he resigned yet?
Manager needs at least 8 years to implement his ideas. Or something like that.
I highly doubt if it goes that bad, he'd resign himself.
I don't agree with you on that point that backing Solskjaer is beacuse of feelings. At least not me. I loved and still love Mourinho but I knew that he was on thin ice last season as soon as he started preseason in the mood that he was in. So I was more then happy him going. And it will be same with Solskjaer. For me, names doesn't matter as long as you are doing good job and as long as you see progress. Right now I see progress despite results not being what we actually deserve. That is why I'm on Solskjaer side for now.
His records are not that bad considering everything. Yes we finished last season awful but everyone could see that our players were exhausted. We couldn't even get to half time without seeing players crawl and searching for air. I don't really see the point talking of last season. Like nobody sees any point to talk now about Klopps first four seasons before winning Champions League. Despite no trophies you could see Liverpool taking steps forward every year with him in charge. What we now have is 1-2-1. What we could have with little bit of luck is 4-0-0 and in worst case 3-0-1 if we are being honest. Not that it matters now but we are not that bad as people want to make it. If we had put some of our chances, those with antiOle agenda would embrace him like he was a king.
I don't think that he should be blamed for transfer window. Well, not alone. He got his bosses to. I believe there is a plan and lets hope that it works. I agree we should have bought one central midfielder and as it looks now even one proven goalscorer. On other hand we have finally stoped buying "stars" for buying sake who are there only for money.
I wrote this in some other thread about it so I'll be short. First four games. We have had first XI that that is in 2, 3, 5 and 14 place if you would make a table of all teams in Premier League this year. I am not obsessed with young players playing and if you do your job you could be 40 for all I care. My point here is that Solskjaer is playing a young team. You can't have U23 side playing Premier League. You got to take it easy introducing them. There are lot of elements to think about before you throw them on the pitch.
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No offence but this is such a stupid way of looking at it. Literally every single club is in that predicament, but they don't go it's time to just shut up shop and not try again. Real Madrid have gone through more managers than us in the last 6 years and that's through one of their most successful periods of history ever.
He is a weak follower of Glazers strategy, he won't be sacked.
I don't think we've been that bad this season. We're incredibly light in attack and midfield, and usually have no game changers on the bench. He should be brave and get more minutes for Greenwood and Gomes, but he could do with more quality. Our XI didn't look much better than Southampton's yesterday.
It's flawed logic. Translate it to outfield positions and it makes even less sense. "We've tried an experienced striker and a young one....so what else?". You pick a rotten apple from a barrel one time and you just give up? I wish the guys at City had the same logic. They'd have stopped at Mancini and never found Pep
Real have maintained a quality squad with some of the best players in the world in that period, to compare it with our squad is ridiculous.
It's no coincidence that their recent' decline' has come when said squad has got older and Ronaldo has left.
Real couldn't beat Valladolid at home last week, are fans calling for Zidanes head? (they probably are actually)
If anything Barca and Real (Chelsea, PSG and others) show that the manager is less important than everyone thinks. A quality squad will get results almost regardless who is in charge.
He's not bad at the managing part and probably would make a better DOF. However, he needs to recognise he's not the greatest tactically and rectify that by hiring people with that knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It would help tremendously if he would do that.
Phelan isn't the person for the level of technique and tactical nous required at this point; Carrick is just beginning; McKenna is fine but still that bit inexperienced and would benefit from working alongside an experienced and modern thinking colleague.
This person should be hired purely on the strength of their cv and not because they're friends with anyone at United.
He also needs to just take the plunge with the youth. Give Gomes and Greenwood starts, let Mata and Lingard be the back ups for a while. It's no use using the same old players to get shit results. I'd rather get the shit results with the youth players, as they are at least gaining valuable experienced it's worth the points sacrifice just for that.
I'm still behind him, but he just needs to be a bit more savvy here. I understand the pressure managers are under to get the results, but he can still help himself with a bit of an adjustment.
Phelan isn't the person for the level of technique and tactical nous required at this point; Carrick is just beginning; McKenna is fine but still that bit inexperienced and would benefit from working alongside an experienced and modern thinking colleague.
This person should be hired purely on the strength of their cv and not because they're friends with anyone at United.
He also needs to just take the plunge with the youth. Give Gomes and Greenwood starts, let Mata and Lingard be the back ups for a while. It's no use using the same old players to get shit results. I'd rather get the shit results with the youth players, as they are at least gaining valuable experienced it's worth the points sacrifice just for that.
I'm still behind him, but he just needs to be a bit more savvy here. I understand the pressure managers are under to get the results, but he can still help himself with a bit of an adjustment.
This is not true though. Look a Pool and their squad and tell me how important a good manager is. Granted they have the best in business but it shows how much can be achieved if you have a manager with a clear plan and footballing philosophy. Ole has nothing.
As I said to you a few days ago, if you all for scum clubs sacking managers after a few months go support one of them clubs.
I've asked you on my last comment and I'll ask again, what specifically is Ole to blame for?
You haven't a clue about football and how building a team works, that isn't an insult that is an absolute fact basing it off your own comments.
You seem to think that a manager comes in and magically fixes things and they become successful machines instantly. It doesn't work like that, there are extremely rare examples of it ever happening in the game.
Pep, the worlds best manager currently didn't rock up to City and be the team they currently are did they?
Klopp, likewise struggled for at least 18 months and both performances and results were mixed. They finished 8th (in his half season), 4th twice and then 2nd.
Even our own Ferguson took 4 years to build his team to his own standard / ideals.
The bold part is the biggest load of nonsense! How are his 3 signing's doing so far? Arguably AWB & James are our best players so far this season in the 4 games. Maguire has done well also and I was even against him signing due to his fee, but I'm impressed with his passing and slowly he's building up an understanding with Lindelof.
If we lose to Leceister in our next game (which is a real possibility), they open up a 6 point lead on us and we'll likely be lower than 10th in the table. The pressure will really then be on Ole.
Frankly with the way we're playing and our results I struggle to see us being in the top 6 come Christmas.
Frankly with the way we're playing and our results I struggle to see us being in the top 6 come Christmas.
Well this is rubbish.
He wanted the job FT so wouldn't he there for demand results to show he is good enough to get it FT?
Basically the whole topic can be taken together with a simple point of this current weekend.
Outside of Pep Guardiola and Jürgen Klopp, not a single so called "Power house" team's fans think that they have the perfect manager, and teams such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus, Bayern & Dortmund have all been lauded by their amazing squads and talents.
So some of you who keep insisting after every set back that Ole is out of his depth, take a minute to breathe. We don't have better squad depth than any of the mentioned teams, https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB1
We have one of the youngest squads out there, with missing a proven right winger and lacking depth of central midfield. So take it all in notice, we have shown what's our strengths are already, relentless pace up front which will be very effective at teams who don't sit back to us.
So we have to work on training ground to fix the missing link what we have in terms of creativity, not enough movement to make opposite defence to make mistakes. And avoid individual errors, such as Lindelöf have had those past 2 games.
Not a single team outside of Pep's City and Jürgen's Liverpool have had such time to implement their style of play yet, nor have the squad depth of talent like those 2 teams have. So we need time and hard work to fix the issues.
Outside of Pep Guardiola and Jürgen Klopp, not a single so called "Power house" team's fans think that they have the perfect manager, and teams such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus, Bayern & Dortmund have all been lauded by their amazing squads and talents.
So some of you who keep insisting after every set back that Ole is out of his depth, take a minute to breathe. We don't have better squad depth than any of the mentioned teams, https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB1
We have one of the youngest squads out there, with missing a proven right winger and lacking depth of central midfield. So take it all in notice, we have shown what's our strengths are already, relentless pace up front which will be very effective at teams who don't sit back to us.
So we have to work on training ground to fix the missing link what we have in terms of creativity, not enough movement to make opposite defence to make mistakes. And avoid individual errors, such as Lindelöf have had those past 2 games.
Not a single team outside of Pep's City and Jürgen's Liverpool have had such time to implement their style of play yet, nor have the squad depth of talent like those 2 teams have. So we need time and hard work to fix the issues.
Why on earth he would do that
Maybe because he has realised that this job is too big for him?
Even so, sacked or resigned he knows thats it for him, back from where he came. At least sacked he will get some $.
The only that should be resigning is Woodward.
Not magically solve all our problems but yes, you keep hiring the best staff possible as that gives you the best chance of success. You don't stop hiring proven managers just because the last 2 failed, there is no logic in that. Just like you don't stop signing proven players because such and such wasn't a success. This is how every other top club operates. We're not special, we're not going to have another manager for 20+ years at the helm.
And lastly, while the Glazers and Woodward are a big part of the problem, we did sign a 80m defender and a 50m fullback. We should be doing a lot better than what our form shows. We should at least look better on the pitch than we do these days.
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