Well I hope you're right and these reports are nonsense, even though I'll be lying if I said I agree all honestly, as I can't believe we'll sell all these players at once without the manager approval, but for now, we'll have nothing to do except to wait and see what will happen in such a long season.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Well I hope you're right and these reports are nonsense, even though I'll be lying if I said I agree all honestly, as I can't believe we'll sell all these players at once without the manager approval, but for now, we'll have nothing to do except to wait and see what will happen in such a long season.
So in injuries case inexperienced rookies are our best bet? We are not even winning Europa league with this squad.
How could you now let our 3rd choice cb leave now, with bailly out for 6 months?
He is showing his rookieness and he is going to pay for it. This is not how you rebuild, sell everyone and buy nothing. Oh God when results don't go his way its going to be a nightmare job for him, and I can see it coming with Woodward unable to buy players. We don't even have a backup left back for Shaw and have to play same old young there.
How could you now let our 3rd choice cb leave now, with bailly out for 6 months?
He is showing his rookieness and he is going to pay for it. This is not how you rebuild, sell everyone and buy nothing. Oh God when results don't go his way its going to be a nightmare job for him, and I can see it coming with Woodward unable to buy players. We don't even have a backup left back for Shaw and have to play same old young there.
Like I said, last 5 seasons they had more than 80 points once.
Fraction of their budget? You better check their spending once.
2018-19 : 160 million
2017-18: 102 million
2016-17: 79 million
2015-16: 143 million
2014-15: 142 million
Madrid barely spent much during this period. Also they didn't compete for league even once after their league win. I mean it's hard to compete for league when you barely make 80 points.
Anyways it's all about hypothetical scenarios. He is defensive manager and those kind of manager will drop many points.
Of course conveniently excluding the first two seasons when Simeone took over.
Yes it’s fraction. Post the what Real, Barca and Atletico spent since he took over and you will see the difference.
When he took over he spent 5m - yes -five.
Next year he spent 36m.
In two years he spent 40m and look at the results.
Real in those two years - north of 200m.
During the time he spent those figures how many key players did he sell?
Do you know that his net spent since 12/13 is somewhere around 100m EUR total?
And no it won’t be the same to hire world class manager and give him money. It’s exactly what Pool and City did and it has proven to be successful.
Inexperienced rookies with a hunger to prove themselves, vs experienced duds who have let us down repeatedly for 5-6 years.
One set could surprise us, the other set we know what to expect.
We have a list of players we dont want. It makes no difference whether Smalling leaves before Rojo, or Rojo before Smalling. Neither will get into the team so get rid as and when we can.
Give the kids a chance. If it goes wrong we can still recruit in January/next summer but in a stronger financial position having removed a good few hundreds of thousand pounds a week off the wage bill.
We could end up adding Maddison, Rice, and another and only be paying the same per week as we have been Sanchez alone.
I have no doubt Ole will be frustrated with how the window went. He'd have wanted 1 or 2 more in, and no doubt all business done earlier.
That didnt happen, so we have to say publicly that we are happy with the progress regardless. It presents the club as being in a strong position, and doesnt allow the likes of Raiola to sell us these 'magic bean' type players
Funny how you use net spend and gross spend as needed. When discussing Klopp and Jose, it's gross spend. Now when it comes to Simeone it's net spend.
Real Madrid have lower net spend than Atletico madrid excluding this summer. 92 million vs around 140 million.
Anyways money alone won't fix anything, you need proper attack coaching too. Thats why teams that attack more wins the league more often than not, unless you have the team so much better than your opponent, in which case it doesn't matter.
Edit: anyways what a boring argument, just like Simeone's football. Good day. Don't really care, this is like the arguments in that drafts forum, all based on imagination.
Liverpool Beat Barca last year, City would have beaten Real and Barca. Not sure what league you are talking about mate.It’s also based on past success and track record.
We need proper defensive coach as well. Someone has proven he is an excellent coach and also rarely mistakes with buying quality forwards.
Check their records since Simeone took over not just last year. Which was the argument, don’t quote only one excerpt like that out of context.
It’s also based on past success and track record.
We need proper defensive coach as well. Someone has proven he is an excellent coach and also rarely mistakes with buying quality forwards.
Yeah, last appointment really worked wonders when we appointed defensive coach and our rivals appointed attacking coach.
Check their records since Simeone took over not just last year. Which was the argument, don’t quote only one excerpt like that out of context.
Simeone won the league when defensive football worked, Jose won the league like that, so did Conte.
However; with the managers in the premier league currently, defensive football will not win. It might when the current managers leave.
Spending for Athletico:
14/15 - £128m
15/16 - £129m
16/17 - £71m
17/18 - £91m
18/19 - £145m
19/20 - £220m
Also, they had a transfer ban in between there as well, and I appreciate they got alot of money in as well.
And they got a new stadium too.
But you cannot say they do not spend.
In first season 100%. In second 90%. In third season no.
Really hoping that never happens and that Ole stays here for many years and builds his own dynasty.
Last edited:
In football is in cycles. Question is how able you are to adapt. Saying that only attacking football will win you the league in the next 5 years might not be accurate. We will fall in ifs and buts territory. What is very likely is that world class manager and money has much bigger probability to work than the experiments we are doing.
I'd like to see it get reinvested but can't see it happening. When Woody is complaining of there being no value in the market in the summer, he will have a lot more to complain about the value in the winter window.
Atletico not required to make any profits. Every euro earned is invested in the team
If your on about acnumber9 comment, its wrong. Our wage bill didn't specifically raise 46% or anything close to it with LVG. It's simply common sense if you look at the players signed by LVG and those signed by Jose. Jose's signings often demanded huge wages weather it was Zlatan (£16m), Pogba (£15m), Lukaku (£11m) and Sanchez (£24m).
Aside from ADM and Martial, the latter wouldn't of been on that much on his first deal here either anyway the rest were reasonably low key signings that wouldn't warrant massive salaries. I've often read our financials in recent years and the most staggering figure in all that time that struck me was the 46% rise specifically in our wage bill.
This is a bit of a half truth in fairness. City have a number of players on huge wages, just that they are more sensible in who gets that big pay day. The likes of Aguero, KDB, Silva and now Sterling are in that bracket, outside of that they earn what you could consider an average salary for their respective roles.
City would break wage structure for the right player I've no doubt or add a specific talent into their high earners without question. They've luxuries or bargaining tools we currently don't have sadly. They can offer the prospect of working with arguably the worlds best manager, with great training facilities and challenge for the PL and CL annually.
We used to be able to offer that with Ferguson, but times change and football is cyclic.
I fault LVG, just not for financial reasons over transfers. I'd fault LVG for failing to find enough quality signing's. The numbers behind those signing's however near hurt the club, unlike Jose. What we are seeing currently (selling as many big name players as possible) is the fall out of the Jose circus!
Arguably the only expensive investment worth it, possibly Zlatan for that 1 season. Outside of that Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Mikha and Bailly have all been terrible and more importantly, Expensive investments.
Doubt anyone could of predicted it'd go as badly as it has but that's the risk with every transfer.
You can't get enough of mentioning this 2nd place finish so maybe someone should remind you that Jose also finished 6th and 7th (at the time of his firing). He was a fecking disaster. His 2nd place finish was 19 points behind City. It turns my stomach every time someone mentions this 2nd place finish like it's some kind of accomplishment. Can you imagine Fergie bragging about finishing 19 points behind City?
City were then, and are now on a completely different level. Jose finished 6th but for a few of the final games it was clear his focus was on winning the Europa Cup and bringing that as an entry to the Champions League. He got the job done and then climbed many points in the league.
81 points is a strong league position, whether City are above us or not.
We had a WC manager and threw money at him, it didnt work.
No one knows what will happen in 5 years but it is obvious to win the league you have to be tight at the back, Ole knows that.
Not sure what to take out of it, he ranks the worst out of the 4 managers we have had post Fergie, after 32 games that is.
Eventually yes over the last 3 years, but... in his first summer there (16-17) he didn't exactly set the world alight with massive signings.
Sane was arguably his top signing that summer. Stones was a big investment but hasn't really stepped up as yet, this years a massive year for him and he'll probably still be a bit part player.
Again, your comparing 3 seasons vs 1 single summer. It takes time and our issues were never going to be all fixed in a single summer. Talk abut instant gratification or what!
Actually its quite similar.
Pep, like Klopp also offloaded expensive players eating away at their wage bill, from Bony, Nevas, Nasri, Kolarov, Zabaletta and quite a few others.
It trims the fat sort of speak and frees up funds for investments that actually suit the managers needs.
Just for reference, here's there transfer history and you see a lot of ageing and expensive players moved on and younger talents invested in. The average age of their squad also dropped from his debut season to his 2nd season by approx 4 years if memory serves right.
https://www.transferleague.co.uk/manchester-city/english-football-teams/manchester-city-transfers
He never actually said that, find me a direct quote where he said it.
That line gets thrown out.... Every. Single. Summer. Always!
At least he is likeable?
Feck it, we needed a scorched earth approach. IMO he’s still not gone far enough. We’ve carried these crap players for far too long, if Ole has to fall on his sword for this then so be it. We need this. As if our season ever depended on Smalling and Sanchez.
No he doesn't.
He's had a whopping 24 league games to date and for half of that we've had so called "supporters" throw dogs abuse at him.
His record to date is better than LVG's and Klopp's and only a single point worse off than Jose at the same point and he's not exactly far off from Pep after 24 games either.
Except for, you know, telling everyone that he wanted replacements for any outgoings, but why let facts get in the way of a moan... Also, Stones saying something that he most likely got from the Press Officer is not the same as getting something directly from Ole. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of corporate communications knows this, but then, that doesn't suit your agenda, does it? If you think that any manager, let alone a Utd manager not named SAF would be happy to go in to a season with a squad as depleted as this, then you're even more clueless than I first thought.
You know what happened when the last manager was here and went postal because he didn't get his way? Do you know what that would do to squad morale?
Ole's in a very difficult spot and he's making do with the situation to the best of his capabilities. A lesser man, indeed, a lesser manager would have done what Jose did last summer, or frantically tried to placate the older players who have consistently let us down over the seasons. Instead, Ole has backed the kids to the hilt. The man truly cares about the club, and that is the first time we can say that about a manager of ours in the past six years.
Doesn't demand them, every manager hopes that and most don't get.
Many of City's signings are late July, early August. Same for Liverpool. Fergie and Gill were kings of the late transfer for years as well.
He is a joke!
Where have I said PL games?
So you'd prefer to chuck in random, once off, anything can happen cup games?
The league is the bread and butter and the main competition every manager must perform in, so yes I much prefer to review his league form over random cup matches.
Calm your tits pal. The same criteria was probably used for all of them, and it’s just a random stat.
Knowing what has happened with the managers in that table, it has zero predictive value. LVG's record is better than Ole's because of a better GD.
Very interesting. I wouldn't have thought that he would have been so far in front of Klopp and so close to Pep. Thanks for sharing
Just proving he isn't the worst in the here and now.
There's far more he's doing in the background as well that deserves credit for.
Look, its far too early to say how this will all play out.
Point being folks are losing their minds far too quickly and the abuse he is getting is nothing short of disgusting to be honest.
He's making big decisions and cutting the fat from the squad as many of us here have demanded. We can't do everything all at once, it'll take time and people losing their minds after a single transfer window is ridiculous.
We've a long road to repair.
Personally I think there are a lot of similarities to the situation of Klopp taking over at Liverpool.
Both clubs have a poor scouting and transfer policy prior to their appointments
Both managers played football completely to their detriments and have to oversee a 180 in playing style
Both clubs had issues with player power, or at least bad attitudes from players
Both managers took over mid way through a season
Both had an expensive Belgian lump (Benteke / Lukaku) up top that hindered Klopp / Ole's new playing style.
Both managers had / have to rebuild their squads with new scouting / transfer policies a key factor
If the two best managers in world football currently (Pep & Klopp) have similar records at the same point, I think we should all just chill the feck out and stop being such drama queens about every single last thing he says or does continually.
Ole is doing a great job. He is shipping out the deadwood and some bad eggs, whilst promoting players like Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Chong, Gomez, Garner. Pogba and De Gea are staying, we have a partner for Lindelof, and one of the best full backs in the world.
The first half against Wolves was exactly what he is trying to achieve with this group of players. It will take time to embed, and some players will be dropped/promoted in the process, but I have every faith in him finding that groove and once we can maintain that level on a regular basis, things will start to happen. We have been unlucky against Palace in a game we dominated, and a short ten minute spell against Wolves cost us 2 points. We have missed 2 penalties. What are the chances of that?
Yet, we have also been lucky too. Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea have all been beaten and dropped points, so we are still in the mix, and not looking at a mountain to climb. We will get there, but we all have to have a bit of faith and lots of patience.
The first half against Wolves was exactly what he is trying to achieve with this group of players. It will take time to embed, and some players will be dropped/promoted in the process, but I have every faith in him finding that groove and once we can maintain that level on a regular basis, things will start to happen. We have been unlucky against Palace in a game we dominated, and a short ten minute spell against Wolves cost us 2 points. We have missed 2 penalties. What are the chances of that?
Yet, we have also been lucky too. Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea have all been beaten and dropped points, so we are still in the mix, and not looking at a mountain to climb. We will get there, but we all have to have a bit of faith and lots of patience.
Really dude? Doesn't demand them? What do you want him to do, threaten to quit if it ain't so? He's clearly stating what he wants isn't he?
It's certainly simple to understand.
City under achieved with the squad they had Pre-Guardiola. Before he was announced they were doing well (look at league positions pre Xmas that year) then after he was announced their players lost focus. They had the best squad in the league and then Pep came and broke spending records improving further. You still think that's a fair comparison? Ridiculous.
Combine that with the fact that Woodward publically stopped backing Jose the Summer before his final (half) season. You can't take that as Mourinho's finishing point. Reality is, he got us to second place, then his winning mentality demanded more investment from the board, they declined, a spat/fallout ensued and results suffered.
It's so much more detailed than your (incorrect imo) basic assessment but it's still simple to understand. Its obvious that our board did not fully back the manager. It's silly to say Jose left us in a worse position than when he started. Why don't you look up the squad he inherited, compare with City and what Pep inherited, then come back to me?
- Status