Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Really dude? Doesn't demand them? What do you want him to do, threaten to quit if it ain't so? He's clearly stating what he wants isn't he?

No, what I'm saying is he is exactly what he says.. hopeful. He isn't demanding and he's big enough and ugly enough to know in the modern game and with all the legalities and paperwork to sift through for transfers it can take time.

Again, how many clubs sign their players prior to pre season? It's a very rare occurrence.
 
Personally I think there are a lot of similarities to the situation of Klopp taking over at Liverpool.

Both clubs have a poor scouting and transfer policy prior to their appointments
Both managers played football completely to their detriments and have to oversee a 180 in playing style
Both clubs had issues with player power, or at least bad attitudes from players
Both managers took over mid way through a season
Both had an expensive Belgian lump (Benteke / Lukaku) up top that hindered Klopp / Ole's new playing style.
Both managers had / have to rebuild their squads with new scouting / transfer policies a key factor

If the two best managers in world football currently (Pep & Klopp) have similar records at the same point, I think we should all just chill the feck out and stop being such drama queens about every single last thing he says or does continually.
You make some good points and I can see a lot of the similarities now that you've pointed them out. I hope that he can get over a lot of those issues and has a similar impact here to what Klopp has at Liverpool.
 
It's certainly simple to understand.

City under achieved with the squad they had Pre-Guardiola. Before he was announced they were doing well (look at league positions pre Xmas that year) then after he was announced their players lost focus. They had the best squad in the league and then Pep came and broke spending records improving further. You still think that's a fair comparison? Ridiculous.

Combine that with the fact that Woodward publically stopped backing Jose the Summer before his final (half) season. You can't take that as Mourinho's finishing point. Reality is, he got us to second place, then his winning mentality demanded more investment from the board, they declined, a spat/fallout ensued and results suffered.

It's so much more detailed than your (incorrect imo) basic assessment but it's still simple to understand. Its obvious that our board did not fully back the manager. It's silly to say Jose left us in a worse position than when he started. Why don't you look up the squad he inherited, compare with City and what Pep inherited, then come back to me?

Come up with more excuses for why Liverpool are so far ahead. Should be interesting.
 
Ole's only silver lining is that he's cutting out all the dead wood, on the pitch he's not done enough to bridge the gap between top four and challenging. I think this is something fans are missing, if you aim for top 4 you'll get a team that is of that calibre (5th, 6th, 7th) there's not a huge difference between Wolves, Everton, Chelsea ourselves and Arsenal. We need to be aiming for the top 3 / 2nd, not only in games but also in recruitment, tactical layouts, coaching, the temperament Ole implements in the players etc. 4 points from our opening three games is absolutely disgraceful, does the football we have witnessed indicate we are anything beyond the capabilities of top 4 ?

The impetus on coaching in the league and the level of competitiveness is now similar to the discipline exemplified in a sport like boxing, if you turn up to fight night without a respectable camp it will show in the performance. We can't afford to have off days in the English league it will always result in disappointment. City and Liverpool success comes in having a more advantageous mental edge than any of the club's in the league above the extent of quality because they are consistent, they've won the game before kick off has started.

I have to question Solskjaer and the coaching staff because in almost 7 months we are still clueless against teams who sit deep. People need to understand you don't need the likes of Modric, Busquets and De Bryune to unlock defences it comes from coaching instructions how to force the opposition into making spaces to then be exploited. I've seen Chelsea look more expansive in possession under 3 games during Lampard's tenure than anything witnessed under Ole.
 
If Ole is going this young, he must have assurances with Woodward about long term vision and job security that is longer than 3 years because this is going to take a few years. The patience is fine and there seems to be a clear picture (young squad, counter attacking and good personalities) but again, I don't trust Woodward and United have to be able to breakdown teams and be clinical when it counts against compact squads.
 
Ole's only silver lining is that he's cutting out all the dead wood, on the pitch he's not done enough to bridge the gap between top four and challenging. I think this is something fans are missing, if you aim for top 4 you'll get a team that is of that calibre (5th, 6th, 7th) there's not a huge difference between Wolves, Everton, Chelsea ourselves and Arsenal. We need to be aiming for the top 3 / 2nd, not only in games but also in recruitment, tactical layouts, coaching, the temperament Ole implements in the players etc. 4 points from our opening three games is absolutely disgraceful, does the football we have witnessed indicate we are anything beyond the capabilities of top 4 ?

The impetus on coaching in the league and the level of competitiveness is now similar to the discipline exemplified in a sport like boxing, if you turn up to fight night without a respectable camp it will show in the performance. We can't afford to have off days in the English league it will always result in disappointment. City and Liverpool success comes in having a more advantageous mental edge than any of the club's in the league above the extent of quality because they are consistent, they've won the game before kick off has started.

I have to question Solskjaer and the coaching staff because in almost 7 months we are still clueless against teams who sit deep. People need to understand you don't need the likes of Modric, Busquets and De Bryune to unlock defences it comes from coaching instructions how to force the opposition into making spaces to then be exploited. I've seen Chelsea look more expansive in possession under 3 games during Lampard's tenure than anything witnessed under Ole.
Disgraceful? Are you mad? Considering we're only 3 points behind City, 2 behind Arsenal and bang on level with Spurs and Chelsea, it's hardly a disgrace, ffs.

We're not great, and I don't think anyone is saying otherwise but you have to give the manager time. He's overseeing a massive overhaul and thanks to the board's incompetence he's having to make do with a squad that is so incredibly shallow that the likes of Gomes, Greenwood et al have been forced to become substantial players in the squad well before their time.

We'll be inconsistent, because that is par for the course for a squad as young as ours (the youngest in the league might I add), but the progression is clear and Ole's ideas are coming to the fore more and more. Yes, the results haven't matched the endeavour but if not for two missed pens, we'd likely be sitting pretty on 9 points.
 
After Palace result. Last 10 league games puts us 17th in the form table.
I'm genuinely surprised people aren't talking about this.
 
After Palace result. Last 10 league games puts us 17th in the form table.
I'm genuinely surprised people aren't talking about this.
Maybe you should read more posts of how people are critical towards Ole.
 
After Palace result. Last 10 league games puts us 17th in the form table.
I'm genuinely surprised people aren't talking about this.
Because there is no point taking games from a finished season into account. Example, last game of last season, nothing to play for, league table position set, no motivation because players know the result won’t change anything.
I don’t get why people like to put games from 2 different seasons together for a team to bring stats out. There is simply no form in my opinion when you have 2 months vacation break between games.
 
Because there is no point taking games from a finished season into account. Example, last game of last season, nothing to play for, league table position set, no motivation because players know the result won’t change anything.
I don’t get why people like to put games from 2 different seasons together for a team to bring stats out. There is simply no form in my opinion when you have 2 months vacation break between games.

I’m sorry, but his won’t wash with everyone. Maybe it’s acceptable for you because you’re desperate for Ole to succeed, but for the rest of us it was the final nail in the coffin for what was an appalling and unacceptable run of form since that PSG game. Had Woodward have waited another couple of weeks to make a decision there’s not a chance in hell he’d have been hired. The Palace game goes hand in hand with that run of form because it’s pretty much exactly what happened under Ole at the tail end of last season. Weak mentality from the players to turn a game around, awful in game management and our main striker picking up an injury for all his harping on about improved fitness levels before pre-season.
 
If Ole is going this young, he must have assurances with Woodward about long term vision and job security that is longer than 3 years because this is going to take a few years. The patience is fine and there seems to be a clear picture (young squad, counter attacking and good personalities) but again, I don't trust Woodward and United have to be able to breakdown teams and be clinical when it counts against compact squads.

I don’t trust them to stand behind Ole if they have given him assurances.
 
Look, its far too early to say how this will all play out.

Point being folks are losing their minds far too quickly and the abuse he is getting is nothing short of disgusting to be honest.

He's making big decisions and cutting the fat from the squad as many of us here have demanded. We can't do everything all at once, it'll take time and people losing their minds after a single transfer window is ridiculous.

We've a long road to repair.

The table you posted has no predictive value in both directions: success and no success. What's different with Ole is that his record over those 24 league games involves extremes: an extremely good run in the first 12-14 games and a very bad one in the last 10. Wins and losses were spread more evenly wth Jose and LVG. Ole's run since March is really poor. Two wins vs Soton and Leicester and that bad run would be history. Two draws/losses and it would get troubling dimensions.
 
After Palace result. Last 10 league games puts us 17th in the form table.
I'm genuinely surprised people aren't talking about this.
Yeah, why hasn't anyone mentioned the bad run of results? Total game changer.
 
The table you posted has no predictive value in both directions: success and no success.

I never said it did? Unless you've the ability to predict the future, who know's how it plays out.

Point being, everyone was adamant Jose would be a raving success, but Ole is only 1 pt worse off.... and guess what, everyone had him dead to rights 12 league games ago. Point being, it could go any which way.

What's different with Ole is that his record over those 24 league games involves extremes: an extremely good run in the first 12-14 games and a very bad one in the last 10. Wins and losses were spread more evenly wth Jose and LVG. Ole's run since March is really poor. Two wins vs Soton and Leicester and that bad run would be history. Two draws/losses and it would get troubling dimensions.

Agreed, its fine margins sometimes in football.

I think the probability for scoring a penalty is approx 75%, we've missed back to back penalties. Over our 3 games I felt we were at least good for 7 pts, don't think we deserved to lose any of them over the course of the full 90 mins.

Chelsea we were deserving winners after riding out a dodgy opening 20 mins. Don't think we deserved 4 goals, but that's how it goes sometimes
Wolves we dominated bar 15 mins where they scored a worldie. What can you do? Everyone said matter of fact Wolves would dominate our midfield and didn't.
Palace we dominated, didn't create much but controlled the majority of the game. They had a whopping 2 shots on target and scored, both from woeful errors.

If we beat Saints we'll go into the break with decent start.
 
Ole's only silver lining is that he's cutting out all the dead wood, on the pitch he's not done enough to bridge the gap between top four and challenging. I think this is something fans are missing, if you aim for top 4 you'll get a team that is of that calibre (5th, 6th, 7th) there's not a huge difference between Wolves, Everton, Chelsea ourselves and Arsenal. We need to be aiming for the top 3 / 2nd, not only in games but also in recruitment, tactical layouts, coaching, the temperament Ole implements in the players etc. 4 points from our opening three games is absolutely disgraceful, does the football we have witnessed indicate we are anything beyond the capabilities of top 4 ?

Three games into the season.... 2 points more from those three fixtures than last season.
 
Whether Ole is right man or not (he probably isn't) I'm still glad we are turning to youth and getting rid of some deadwood.

In truth we could have spent 300m on top players this summer and still not got that close to City.

Think the best strategy now is build slowly with youth. We are no longer only 2-3 players away from challenging. The club know that.
 
I’m sorry, but his won’t wash with everyone. Maybe it’s acceptable for you because you’re desperate for Ole to succeed, but for the rest of us it was the final nail in the coffin for what was an appalling and unacceptable run of form since that PSG game. Had Woodward have waited another couple of weeks to make a decision there’s not a chance in hell he’d have been hired. The Palace game goes hand in hand with that run of form because it’s pretty much exactly what happened under Ole at the tail end of last season. Weak mentality from the players to turn a game around, awful in game management and our main striker picking up an injury for all his harping on about improved fitness levels before pre-season.
My point here is anyone can take some stats to prove things. Why just last 10 league games ? Why not last 20 games or why not since Ole in charge ? Or simply why not wait for him to get to 50 league games and then analyse ? It is just too soon into the new season to start judging his pre season work. And honestly the Palace game has nothing to do with end of last season form in term of the way the team play, only in term of result. Hopefully the players will cut out individual errors...then let’s see after 10 league games where we are.
 
His poor record will catch up with him soon if he doesn’t win majority of next half dozen or so games. Simply has to improve as we won’t even be in top half of it continues.

It’s great he is starting to offload players, there are so many to get rid of though and it will take years. Biggest problem still remains that he simply didn’t get enough players in over the summer and we’re unlikely to buy in January.
 
It is is ridiculous to compare Pep, Klopp with Ole. Two are probably the best two managers in the world right now who has won almost everything. Klopp still has to win the PL. Ole is a newbie who has never even been the coach of a top club let alone managed one.
 
Again, your comparing 3 seasons vs 1 single summer. It takes time and our issues were never going to be all fixed in a single summer. Talk abut instant gratification or what!

Tell that to Madrid. They have spent 305m on players this summer.

18 Arrivals
15 Departures.

Thats how you rebuild a club.
 
Tell that to Madrid. They have spent 305m on players this summer.

18 Arrivals
15 Departures.

Thats how you rebuild a club.

They have signed 7 players (good chance 2 of them are for B team) and sold 4 players + loaned out few.
 
They have signed 7 players (good chance 2 of them are for B team) and sold 4 players + loaned out few.

Plus another 8 back from being on loan. Yes they bought 7 players for 305m, or 190m net. We spent 94m and are in a much bigger need of a rebuild. And we are talking about two clubs of the same magnitude in revenues. So once again thats how its should be done.
 
Plus another 8 back from being on loan. Yes they bought 7 players for 305m, or 190m net. We spent 94m and are in a much bigger need of a rebuild. And we are talking about two clubs of the same magnitude in revenues. So once again thats how its should be done.

That's not how it should be done, they have same first 11 and signed bunch of squad players + Hazard. Other clubs have done it better.
 
Just gonna say this when you got Lukaku and Sanchez y'all rejoiced. When you bought Baily and Lindelof ya'll rejoiced again. No one saw Lukaku and Sanchez transfers turning out to be shit. Blaming Jose or players not living up to the hype is like Chelsea blaming Conte for Morata flopping. Transfers are always a gamble but if most united fans are gonna be like oh i was against these signings then your a hypocrite. The threads are there the same posters saying jose left us in a worst situation were the sameones rejoicing about the signings being made.
 
Just gonna say this when you got Lukaku and Sanchez y'all rejoiced. When you bought Baily and Lindelof ya'll rejoiced again. No one saw Lukaku and Sanchez transfers turning out to be shit. Blaming Jose or players not living up to the hype is like Chelsea blaming Conte for Morata flopping. Transfers are always a gamble but if most united fans are gonna be like oh i was against these signings then your a hypocrite. The threads are there the same posters saying jose left us in a worst situation were the sameones rejoicing about the signings being made.

Not sure how it is related. Fans celebrating are not paid multi million pounds to gets these things spot on or don't even have access to the detailed reports of players.
 
You can't get enough of mentioning this 2nd place finish so maybe someone should remind you that Jose also finished 6th and 7th (at the time of his firing). He was a fecking disaster. His 2nd place finish was 19 points behind City. It turns my stomach every time someone mentions this 2nd place finish like it's some kind of accomplishment. Can you imagine Fergie bragging about finishing 19 points behind City?
Very strange. You really should go see a doctor about that.
 
Yes, which is a massive problem. I just don't understand the love in for Madrid transfer summer as most of them are not first team regulars.

There is no love, I just wanted to point out that Madrid spent so much money this summer to rebuild in contrast to us in a thread that is implying we are doing things right. Also pointing out that we are one of the richest clubs in the world just like Madrid.
 
In football is in cycles. Question is how able you are to adapt. Saying that only attacking football will win you the league in the next 5 years might not be accurate. We will fall in ifs and buts territory. What is very likely is that world class manager and money has much bigger probability to work than the experiments we are doing.

Exactly.
 
There is no love, I just wanted to point out that Madrid spent so much money this summer to rebuild in contrast to us in a thread that is implying we are doing things right. Also pointing out that we are one of the richest clubs in the world just like Madrid.

Yeah, they didn't spend much before this summer. I think they had less than 100 million net spend in last 7-8 years. At least their big investment they did long back worked and it was well worth it. We have also spent shit loads of money but ended up having poor squad. Spending money wasn't the problem, how we did it was the bigger issue.
 
Not sure where to post this. Copied from reddit.

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Doesn't look good, hopefully we add few more players in Jan window. At least a CM and RW should be priority.
 
Not sure where to post this. Copied from reddit.

gmpwb6629fj31.png


Doesn't look good, hopefully we add few more players in Jan window. At least a CM and RW should be priority.
I'd rather the second lineup than the first. Plus,Valencia and Bailly weren't starting that often last season were they? Young was the RB and Jones/Smalling played alongside Lindelof.
 
Yeah, they didn't spend much before this summer. I think they had less than 100 million net spend in last 7-8 years. At least their big investment they did long back worked and it was well worth it. We have also spent shit loads of money but ended up having poor squad. Spending money wasn't the problem, how we did it was the bigger issue.

Yeah I know we have been spending. But this summer. This summer, finishing 6th last year, 30+ points behind the top two we really needed to spend big to get back. But we didnt.
And like you said Madrid didnt have to spend all these years because they had Ronaldo.
 
I'd rather the second lineup than the first. Plus,Valencia and Bailly weren't starting that often last season were they? Young was the RB and Jones/Smalling played alongside Lindelof.

Defensive part is fine, it's the midfield and attack. Not that we should have retained Lukaku and Sanchez but adding 1 more attacker (RW) would have made put us in better position. Also CM means McTominay would have been squad player for now. Something we can address in Jan.
 
In first season 100%. In second 90%. In third season no.
That’s right and not backed in third season was the right thing to do. How can you backed someone who spent 500M on like 10 players in 4 transferts windows and in third season only had 2 of those buys in the starting 11? Why would you trust someone like that and give him more money to spend when at the same time he is bullying his own buys? He bought Pogba but trust Fellaini..he bought Bailly and Lindelof but trust Smalling and Jones more..he knows he needs a defender but prefer to sign Sanchez while shipping out one of his buys mkitaryan...same Sanchez to play on left wing where he has Rashford and Martial as option. Just allowing that shows how naive Woodward was and how he blindly trusted Mourinho, he even follows that by giving him a new contract. Total mess from Mourinho that left us with aging deadwood that no other club want. At least with Pep spending, you can see in the team that most of his buys are in his starting 11. Mourinho was just wasting money, destroying the young promising players and blaming everyone except himself for his failure.
 
Defensive part is fine, it's the midfield and attack. Not that we should have retained Lukaku and Sanchez but adding 1 more attacker (RW) would have made put us in better position. Also CM means McTominay would have been squad player for now. Something we can address in Jan.
Agreed, I just think the first lineup has big problems too.
I think we need a centre mid mostly, whether we get an attacking one like Eriksen or we go for a more central one doesn't make much difference I don't think; we just need some quality there.
If I were Ole I'd be tempted to bring Garner into the side on Saturday.
 
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