Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Wumminator]

It's funny though, a year after we get him for even more money. That's just a proof Ed has no plan or idea whatsoever.

That’s not proof at all. At the time Mourinho had 80 million pounds worth of centre backs he didn’t play. Maguire hadn’t established himself at the top level for a long period.

I abhor the fact that we signed Maguire after Mourinho wanted him the year before is somehow proof we had no plan. What about the fact Moyes wanted him?

 

[roonster09]

It's funny though, a year after we get him for even more money. That's just a proof Ed has no plan or idea whatsoever.

What? We didn't sign Perisic, Willian, Boateng. That's the part @Raw highlighted, they only talk about Maguire, ignoring the shit players we were linked with.

 

[Ban]

That’s not proof at all. At the time Mourinho had 80 million pounds worth of centre backs he didn’t play. Maguire hadn’t established himself at the top level for a long period.

I abhor the fact that we signed Maguire after Mourinho wanted him the year before is somehow proof we had no plan. What about the fact Moyes wanted him?

So one year after he established himself at the top level?
So I guess Ed has a plan, what is it?

 

[Enigma_87]

What do you mean by your bottom paragraph? Of course all managers should be blamed. However none of the managers left such a bad mark as Jose.

Mourinho obviously did abysmally in the transfer market and as a result we are in a mess. If you want to alleviate him of any blame saying “the board negotiated contracts” that’s on you, but I then expect you to never complain about a board vetoing targets.

The bottom paragraph means it's not "it took three years Jose to make that mess", rather than he inherited a mess from LvG, who inherited a mess from Moyes and now Ole is doing that mess for the next manager.

Mourinho inherited a team expected to play possession football which was in contrast to his style. Wouldn't that mean that he needs time to make a rebuild and get many players to play in his way? You do realize that we offered 4 very different approaches under 4 very different managers. Should we blame LvG that Jose didn't succeed here?

Every manager should take the blame and his part during his reign - this is what he can control. Ole took the job with the knowledge how we played and what team we have so he must've thought he can do the job at hand and make it, doesn't he?

Comes next summer - Pogba leaves, Ole is sacked, we're not in top 4 and no top player wants to join us because we can't offer CL football. Who is at fault for that mess? Jose?

 

[Ban]

What? We didn't sign Perisic, Willian, Boateng. That's the part @Raw highlighted, they only talk about Maguire, ignoring the shit players we were linked with.

Agree about the shit players or at least you can call then not good enough but it seems to me our transfer strategy is a mess if there is one at all.

 

[Focusmate]

This thread is simply deflection. Judging managers on transfers and contracts rather than results.

Why on earth do people still think the manager is 100% responsible anyway? Manager is not responsible for contract negotiations etc.

Unless this thread is simply a way to attack Jose?

Managers are judged on results and performances. Ole will get more leeway due to being popular whereas Jose was hated by many, but ultimately results and performances will need to be there.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I'm baffled as to how you can already say Ole is turning it around when his results in his last 15 competitive matches are worse than anything our previous three managers churned out. We've also had a dreadful summer in terms of transfers and already saw on Saturday the effects it's going to have on us throughout this season which doesn't exactly bode well either.

 

[Wumminator]

The bottom paragraph means it's not "it took three years Jose to make that mess", rather than he inherited a mess from LvG, who inherited a mess from Moyes and now Ole is doing that mess for the next manager.

Mourinho inherited a team expected to play possession football which was in contrast to his style. Wouldn't that mean that he needs time to make a rebuild and get many players to play in his way? You do realize that we offered 4 very different approaches under 4 very different managers. Should we blame LvG that Jose didn't succeed here?

Every manager should take the blame and his part during his reign - this is what he can control. Ole took the job with the knowledge how we played and what team we have so he must've thought he can do the job at hand and make it, doesn't he?

Comes next summer - Pogba leaves, Ole is sacked, we're not in top 4 and no top player wants to join us because we can't offer CL football. Who is at fault for that mess? Jose?

I’d say that Ole needs till the end of this season and to make the signings he identifies for the year after. As of now, this transfer window has been mostly about rectifying Mourinho.

Mourinho took over a better side with more finances available thanks to LVG’s prudent approach with the wage bill and relatively low net spend.

 

[Wumminator]

I'm baffled as to how you can already say Ole is turning it around when his results in his last 15 competitive matches are worse than anything our previous three managers churned out. We've also had a dreadful summer in terms of transfers and already saw on Saturday the effects it's going to have on us throughout this season which doesn't exactly bode well either.

We’re playing better football, the results have improved overall since Ole come in and we’ve managed to get our wage bill back under control. That’s very positive.

 

[roonster09]

Agree about the shit players or at least you can call then not good enough but it seems to me our transfer strategy is a mess if there is one at all.

Yeah, calling him shit players to way too harsh. Not good enough and old players who would have been our problem to offload.

Agree with transfer strategy part, it's a mess and also how we haven't addressed many issues in the squad.

 

[Ban]

Better squad. 5, 6 players needed to get rid of but a better squad... What's with LVG revisionsm around here.

 

[Wumminator]

Yeah, calling him shit players to way too harsh. Not good enough and old players who would have been our problem to offload.

Agree with transfer strategy part, it's a mess and also how we haven't addressed many issues in the squad.

Has every transfer this window reflected our needs?

I’d say so. Our weakest position was CB/RM/RB.

 

[Enigma_87]

I’d say that Ole needs till the end of this season and to make the signings he identifies for the year after. As of now, this transfer window has been mostly about rectifying Mourinho.

Mourinho took over a better side with more finances available thanks to LVG’s prudent approach with the wage bill and relatively low net spend.

You can't possibly know that mate. If we're to believe the board they came out and said the money is there and Ole will be backed. Ole said that he's happy with the squad and happy with what Woodward is doing. The actual info coming from the club means you can't really say statements like that.

Of course Moirinho left a dross behind, but some of the players that are part of the deadwood he inherited himself - Jones, Smalling - still at the club for example.

He left dross that should be moved on, but also he left some good players and the only world class player we have in the team.

It looks to me that like his in game management he doesn't have plan B for the signings that won't come.

If we don't get top 4, most likely he won't get the signings he wants next year either.

 

[Woodzy]

Jose was turning things around until year 3. We all thought he was doing a great job for the longest time - there was actually a lot more optimism than there is at the moment (although on the back of LvG's football i'm not surprised).

In fact it was probably only until the Sevilla game in season two that we knew that things were really going downhill with Jose in charge.

 

[Wumminator]

Jose was turning things around until year 3. We all thought he was doing a great job for the longest time - there was actually a lot more optimism than there is at the moment (although on the back of LvG's football i'm not surprised).

In fact it was probably only until the Sevilla game in season two that we knew that things were really going downhill with Jose in charge.

Not sure about that mate. I think the warning bells were there before that.

 

[roonster09]

Has every transfer this window reflected our needs?

I’d say so. Our weakest position was CB/RM/RB.

Yeah, we have done well to address CB, RB. We should have done more to sign CM and RW too (I know James is signed but he looks better as LW).

Maybe Ole really believes it's ok not to sign players instead of signing wrong players.

 

[Massive Spanner]

We’re playing better football, the results have improved overall since Ole come in and we’ve managed to get our wage bill back under control. That’s very positive.

that's so misleading and you know it, take those first ten games out and our results have been far worse than any other manager. What matters more, the first ten games or the last 15?

Our wage bill? How do you know it's under control or was out of control? It was the lowest percentage in the league as a ratio to turnover last season, how the feck is that out of control? Sanchez is still on our books, him being off on loan doesn't change that.

Our football being better is largely subjective, we've looked decent in the last three games but there's no sign that Ole knows how to fix our biggest issues which is conceding silly goals, and beating teams who sit back. If he doesn't address both of those things then it doesn't matter what sort of football we play.

It's just a silly time to make a thread like this. Three games into the season, one good result, one OK result and one diabolical result and Ole is somehow turning everything around? Christ but you're a great WUM.

 

[Raw]

Jose was turning things around until year 3. We all thought he was doing a great job for the longest time - there was actually a lot more optimism than there is at the moment (although on the back of LvG's football i'm not surprised).

In fact it was probably only until the Sevilla game in season two that we knew that things were really going downhill with Jose in charge.

I really thought we'd be more positive in our approach in his first year. Sure the results weren't great but we were creating a lot of chances that we couldn't finish. In hindsight, it was probably more the Ibra and Pogba effect. We toned it back in his second year (after the 4-0 wins, though most of which the scores flattered us), and by the second half of that season we were in full negativity mode.

 

[The Boy]

I'm baffled as to how you can already say Ole is turning it around when his results in his last 15 competitive matches are worse than anything our previous three managers churned out. We've also had a dreadful summer in terms of transfers and already saw on Saturday the effects it's going to have on us throughout this season which doesn't exactly bode well either.

I think the point is the difference between those matches at the end of last season and what we've seen so far this season. Last season Everton, Cardiff, Hudderfield, you were appalling, players tired, players looking like they didn't care, no impetus to do anything or try anything, it looked like you'd just given up.

That could not be more different from what we've seen this season. Wolves and Palace were not the results you were looking for, but you were by far the best team in both matches, you press, you're quick, players are actually looking like they're playing football and even enjoying it. I think this bodes well for the season and the comparison to the end of last season is like chalk and cheese.

 

[TrueRed79]

Bit dramatic with the "he's turning it around, eh"? The only thing he's doing right and credit to him is getting rid or marginalising the deadwood from the 1st team squad. Kudos for that for sure. Now to where it matters most, results. He's has been on a downward spiral since the PSG result. 3 wins in 15 games is terrible, coupled with a home loss to CP and it makes for grim reading. Not sure your sentiments are completely right starting this thread.

 

[Raw]

Three games into the season, one good result, one OK result and one diabolical result and Ole is somehow turning everything around?

To be honest, a thread like this is refreshing as opposed to the sack Ole and all our players are shit threads.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not sure about that mate. I think the warning bells were there before that.

And you don't see the warning bells now? Last 15 games? Short bench and thin squad? In game management?

 

[Wumminator]

And you don't see the warning bells now? Last 15 games? Short bench and thin squad? In game management?

We are playing better with a younger squad and improved our results overall.

So no, I’m feeling no alarm bells.

 

[Massive Spanner]

To be honest, a thread like this is refreshing as opposed to the sack Ole and all our players are shit threads.

Nothing wrong with being positive but it has to be realistic.

There are things to be positive about. We've gotten rid of some shithouse players, the signings he made look good, we look better than we did under him at the end of last season, we have talented youngsters. But there's nothing to suggest he's actually "turned things around" really, and frankly it's a bit of an insult to a manager who actually won us trophies and got us to 2nd behind probably the best team of the PL era. I bet Ole would bit your hand off for results like that.

 

[Sarni]

Why don't you stop being so overly negative after one mistake. He's been great for months before hand.

He was Jose's signing. Everything that Mourinho did will always bring negativity out of Wumminator. If he were a Moyes signing, he would be delighted with him.

 

[Kush]

I’d say that Ole needs till the end of this season and to make the signings he identifies for the year after. As of now, this transfer window has been mostly about rectifying Mourinho.

Mourinho took over a better side with more finances available thanks to LVG’s prudent approach with the wage bill and relatively low net spend.

Yeah mate, van Gaal sure left Mourinho with a belter of a squad. Look how much 'better' it is than the one Ole took over:

 

[Matt007a]

We made 3 good signing this window. Maybe we could have got a 4th or 5th if we'd got rid of Lukaku or Sanchez earlier, but that's probably not as easy as it sounds, nor is that OGS's job. He identifies players he wants to buy and the ones he wants out, but he has no input in the negotiation process.

I like the ones he has brought in so far and if he brings in another 3 or 4 next summer of the same blueprint in midfield and attack then I'll be delighted.

Maybe he's not the best manager or coach in the world, but he's got the players on board during a tricky rebuild and seems to be signing the right kinds of players for us. Certainly more so than Jose did. If he continues to buy the right players and creates a good team/squad, then you can replace him later with a better coach when we are ready to challenge for titles.

If we have a young and exciting team in 3 years time, which it looks like we could do with his transfer approach then we would be a much more exciting option for a top coach than what we are now.

 

[Wumminator]

Yeah mate, van Gaal sure left Mourinho with a belter of a squad. Look how much 'better' it is than the one Ole took over:

I mean....


Yeah?

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think the point is the difference between those matches at the end of last season and what we've seen so far this season. Last season Everton, Cardiff, Hudderfield, you were appalling, players tired, players looking like they didn't care, no impetus to do anything or try anything, it looked like you'd just given up.

That could not be more different from what we've seen this season. Wolves and Palace were not the results you were looking for, but you were by far the best team in both matches, you press, you're quick, players are actually looking like they're playing football and even enjoying it. I think this bodes well for the season and the comparison to the end of last season is like chalk and cheese.

Your point is a good one but that was not his point. His point was not that we look better under Ole now than we did under Ole at the end of last season. in fact he's flat out ignoring how shit we were at the end of last season in favour of "well our overall results have been better under Ole!" If he had said what you said then I'd largely agree, but that's not Ole turning around Mourinho's mess, that's him turning around his own mess.

 

[Wumminator]

Your point is a good one but that was not his point. His point was not that we look better under Ole now than we did under Ole at the end of last season. in fact he's flat out ignoring how shit we were at the end of last season in favour of "well our overall results have been better under Ole!" If he had said what you said then I'd largely agree, but that's not Ole turning around Mourinho's mess, that's him turning around his own mess.

He didn’t make the mess at the end of last season. I was at the Liverpool game where I saw our players break down through fatigue. I saw how some of Mourinho’s signings weren’t up to it.

He couldn’t do anything about the end of last year. No transfer window with a horrendously tired squad.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He didn’t make the mess at the end of last season. I was at the Liverpool game where I saw our players break down through fatigue. I saw how some of Mourinho’s signings weren’t up to it.

He couldn’t do anything about the end of last year. No transfer window with a horrendously tired squad.

you just ignoring my previous post?

Of course he could, that's silly. He made the mistake of playing these players at a far higher intensity in the early stages of when he took over and it left them fecked for the run in. That's poor management.

But nothing is Ole's fault in your eyes is it

 

[Ban]

It's all right if things go wrong we can always pin it on Jose.

 

[Wumminator]

you just ignoring my previous post?

Of course he could, that's silly. He made the mistake of playing these players at a far higher intensity in the early stages of when he took over and it left them fecked for the run in. That's poor management.

But nothing is Ole's fault in your eyes is it

I don’t see that as poor management.
I see that as our new permanent manager trying to encourage a better style of play that unfortunately left us petering off.

I’d rather he do that than try and replicate Mourinho’s style.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don’t see that as poor management.
I see that as our new permanent manager trying to encourage a better style of play that unfortunately left us petering off.

I’d rather he do that than try and replicate Mourinho’s style.

So you rather run players to the ground in September with a very short squad and be left with an entire year in possible muscle injuries and playing the kids because the senior players are either alienated or sidelined?

We're in week three and we have Shaw out for a month with his backup being Ashley Young and Martial is also out with a 17 years old to replace him.

 

[Wumminator]

So you rather run players to the ground in September with a very short squad and be left with an entire year in possible muscle injuries and playing the kids because the senior players are either alienated or sidelined?

We're in week three and we have Shaw out for a month with his backup being Ashley Young and Martial is also out with a 17 years old to replace him.

Are you blaming this seasons injuries on Ole?

fecking hell.

 

[Kush]

I mean....


Yeah?

You're full of shit, period. That squad finished with 66 points in the PL with our worst ever goal tally for 5 decades with pitiful 49 goals scored over the season. It ranked us at 13th in the table for goals scored. This was a season where top teams had a stinker and 81 points won the title. The squad which Mourinho left behind Ole to work with finished with 81 points in a much stronger PL with both Klopp and Pep having built their teams.

Also, you were a part of huge contingent on Caf who wanted Mourinho gone in the summer of 2018 since Mourinho was 'holding the team back', how it was brimming with full of potential which a manager of Peps ilk would unlock. Funny, how eight months later that squad is not good enough for poor Ole to work with. Your agenda is quite clear and pretty pathetic to be honest, it makes you like a right idiot.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Now first of all yes, this thread title is overly emotive, but I think some balance is needed here to address how well Ole is doing after inheriting the absolute shitshow that is Manchester United.

When Jose Mourinho arrived at Manchester United, most of the fanbase was over the moon. Seen as a 'serial winner' despite having Chelsea hovering near the relegation zone in his last stint as a manager, Jose was seen as a 'guarantee' of success after the tenure of LVG and Moyes. Almost 90% of this forum said they were happy with his hiring. He arrived at the club who had just finished fifth in the league and won the FA Cup. Fans weren't happy with LVG's style of play and his downturn in results.

At the time Mourinho was given unprecedented funds that he would spend turning Manchester United into a worse team. Far from not being backed, Mourinho would take United to the highest wage bill in world football and spend hundreds of millions.

In his first tranfer window, United fans celebrated having the best transfer widow in the prem. Jose broke the world transfer record, signed Eric Bailly and Mikhytaryan. The next year he would take his net spend to 250 million. In his first two years at the club Mourinho spent 325 million pounds. Of those players, only two have played any minutes in the Premier League this season. The next year he spent another 75 million. If a manager spends 400 million and only has Lindelof and Pogba to show for it, the next manager is not going to turn it around overnight.

During this time, Mourinho also increased our wage massively. Fans may complain about the fact that Darmian and Rojo are taking up wages, however Mourinho's own desire to 'complete our attack' with Sanchez remains one of the worst bits of business ever done in the Premier League. From 2015 to 2018 (not just Mourinho's tenure, but the vast majority of this money would be Mourinho's) our wagebill increased by 93 million (or 46%). Mourinho almost doubled our wage bill and left the club further away from the title/top four and in a lower position than where he took over.

Enter Solskjaer. United fans are currently complaining that Ole Gunnar has not been backed, despite spending over 150 million pounds since his arrival at the club. Many United fans feel this way because our squad on paper in thin in so many areas. However, if the club is going to get back to the top, it is a necessary part of the rebuilding process. United have drastically lowered their wage bill, with the departures of Fellaini, Valencia, Lukaku, Sanchez and Herrera. This had to happen, we can not continue spending so much money on players who are not good enough.

If Mourinho hadn't have messed up so badly, we wouldn't be in this position. However, the signs are positive. Maguire, AWB and Daniel James have started their careers well. We are signing players for the long term in Hannibal Mejbri. Our Under 23s have been completely redesigned and are currently bossing the league. Recent work for the Athletic has shown how meticulous Solskjaer has been in redeveloping the club. Our style of football has improved.

Ole needs time. He can not possibly rectify this club in a season. People will point to other clubs who have rebuilt in a quicker time throughout recent seasons, however no club has ever ended up with such a horrendous financial position. With the money flowing through the game nowadays, every signing has to be successful and unfortunately we have been massively far off.

I agree with the fact that any manager will need time to correct the mess that we're in. And I like that we've made very sensible signings this summer, even if they're not adequate. I also like that we seem to have a far better long term vision for the right recruitment under Ole, one that is geared towards trusting young players, and playing attacking football.

However, all of the above are things a DoF should be taking care of, not the head coach. Ole's job first and foremost is to implement effective tactics on the pitch, and make sure our players look like a team on the pitch, with a clear style of play. Sure, managers like Ancelotti and Zidane have achieved success mostly using effective man management, but even they needed the right players in their squads. Ole, in his scrambled 8 months so far, has not shown tactical nous beyond a counter-attacking style of football and lots of pressing (which does not always look co-ordinated as well). He seems lost when Plan A doesn't work, and we do have only 3 wins in the last 15 at the end of the day. At what cost are we performing the transition? How effectively can we transition if we don't have CL football for the likes of Sancho or Dybala and say, can't keep Pogba? We might end up going backwards again, with a bunch of overpaid kids taking the abuse along the way.

He is great for the transition, since he is performing the DoF role for us right now, while showing great PR and man-management skills. But if and once the transition is 'done', to any decent degree, he needs to show more tactical skills to take us further. Till that moment, maybe for 2-3 more transfer windows at most, he should have the backing of the board and the fans. After that, let's see.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I don’t see that as poor management.
I see that as our new permanent manager trying to encourage a better style of play that unfortunately left us petering off.

I’d rather he do that than try and replicate Mourinho’s style.

I mean, it's definitely poor management. If he didn't realize his new style of play was going to leave these players knackered for the run in, that's poor management. If he did and decided to do it anyway (seems to be what you're suggesting), that's even worse management.

Trying to implement your style of play from the get go is one thing but trying to do it when you come in mid season and not grasping the fact that it might cause severe fitness issues is shocking.

 

[Enigma_87]

Are you blaming this seasons injuries on Ole?

fecking hell.

I'm saying when you intend to play high intense game you should have backups when players get injured/tired. Didn't you see the point Massive Spanner make?

 

[Wumminator]

You're full of shit, period. That squad finished with 66 points in the PL with our worst ever goal tally for 5 decades with pitiful 49 goals scored over the season. It ranked us at 13th in the table for goals scored. This was a season where top teams had a stinker and 81 points won the title. The squad which Mourinho left behind Ole to work with finished with 81 points in a much stronger PL with both Klopp and Pep having built their teams.

Also, you were a part of huge contingent on Caf who wanted Mourinho gone in the summer of 2018 since Mourinho was 'holding the team back', how it was brimming with full of potential which a manager of Peps ilk would unlock. Funny, how eight months later that squad is not good enough for poor Ole to work with. Your agenda is quite clear and pretty pathetic to be honest, it makes you like a right idiot.

I mean I think the team left behind there is a lot better. Do you this Jose was on course to get 81 points last season? Why did you leave Martial out of that image?