For your master, yes. He's gone, get over it. Man would have had us below Everton by now way he was going
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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For your master, yes. He's gone, get over it. Man would have had us below Everton by now way he was going
His acid test all along has been how he will recover from the first setback. Well, we're right in the middle of it now, and the response has been a little bit worrying. I don't know why he's changed the style from what was so successful early on. Does he not have the players? Are they not fit enough? I'm not sure what it is but he looks like he's floundering a bit at the moment. We need a big summer for sure, both to get the current lot fitter and to bring in players to suit the early style he had us playing.
Losing 3-0 to Watford isnt implementing it "just fine". My point was that everyone knew what Klopp wanted to do because he had done it at Dortmund for years before. Not because he showed it instantly. His first season at Liverpool was actually a very bad one. But everyone knew it would take time so he didnt get much criticism.
You're basically claiming you dont see any impact of coaching with Ole because of a few losses or because we arent pressing right up to their box. There is more than one way to play football (many people seemingly forget Sir Alex didnt play like either of Klopp or Pep yet everyone seems to obsess over them). Ole is pretty clearly implementing a faster pace, more direct attacking style of player. Just because we arent playing a Pep style of football doesnt mean work isnt being done. The instant upturn in both results and performances is testament to that. You're throwing your toys out because we lost a couple of games. That's what you're doing. The facts of it, whether it suits your whinging agenda or not, is that we have had a massive improvement with Ole. Results wise, we have been the best in the league. Performance wise, probably just behind City and Liverpool but ahead of the rest. Is that not doing a brilliant job, considering what he took over, the squad issues we have, etc? Because I assure you nobody wouldve done better then Ole the last 3 months.
And you're going all out with criticism because he played a center mid in a slightly deeper role and Young as part of a back 3 temporarily in the game? We still fecking dominated most of the game. If young didn't get himself sent off theres no way we lose that. Regardless, it's hardly the first time a manager experimented with his selection a bit when they had injuries. Remember when Sir Alex, against Arsenal, played a midfield of rafael, Fabio, o'shea and Darren Gibson? Worked out well then. So yesterday if Lingard scores his sitter and we have a 2-0 lead and comfortably see out the game, or if Mctominay scores his header and we win, does that make him a managerial genius? Of course not. Because you shouldn't overreact to one or two performances. Look at his time as a whole. As a whole, weve been easily in the top 3 in the league both in performances and results, when as a squad I wouldnt say there is much between United, Spurs, Arsenal or Chelsea and all are clearly a level below the top 2.
The truth is he's very overrated as FB. Always tucks inside when theirs a switch of play leaving an acre of space. His offensive game and crossing isn't really good. Likes to cut infield too much but in terms of keeping possesion he's one of our better players.
It means something because Ole has only been here since December 17th. Feel like it's entirely fair to judge him purely on the games hes actually managed. I'm using that as facts to back up my point of people are overreacting from a few defeats and on the whole, Ole has done a brilliant job. Nobody is saying we'd end on 90 points if he was here. Just saying that his record since he took over has been as good as anyone couldve dreamed of, yet we can still miss out on top 4 (and you'll still see people claiming Ole has failed in that sense).
But Liverpool's squad back then was largely mocked by fans of the other big clubs, and generally seen as average despite he money spent on it. Firmino was looking like an expensive missfit in the short time he had playing for Rogers. Sturridge was already going down the route of being injured more than he was fit. Henderson, as he still is by many, was seen as a bit of a joke, they had players like Mignolet, Benteke, Toure, Skrtel, Lucas, Allen, Sakho, Moreno, Ings etc starting regularly, players who would be ranked from poor to average. Looking at that squad, the only one who was seen as top quality right then was Coutinho.
I think United's squad now is far better than that squad.
As for Solskjaer, I don't think last nights game is a great one to start assessing as being a sign of him not working out. United dominated early, and should have had the game wrapped up in the first 15-20 minutes. Then one mistake shifts the momentum. Even with 10 men, United looked comfortable, until again you concede a terrible goal. Yes ultimately a manager has to take responsibility, but last nights game would be a harsh one to pin on Solskjaer.
id say this is a big part of it as it came to a head when half the team got injured. Ole made comments saying he wants his team the hardest working in the league, it aint gonna happen this season
That's not what I wrote. Young isn't good enough any longer.
Any way, OGS is in for a rough task. Time to stop grinning like a clown and start doing the hard work.
Is the guy now going to be vilified for smiling?
First we had LVG and Jose with faces like slapped arses now we have a guy who looks as though he's enjoying the challenge but can't get a break because he ....wait...smiles?
What is he supposed to do currently that he isn't already doing? He joined almost halfway through a season and inherited a lot of average players.
We've had some very good games under him, great results and a big winning streak to go with it. The real work will start in the summer with offloading the deadwood, buying the players he wants and implementing the system in preseason.
I don't think he's actually done this, it's just people don't like the fact that it's someone internal who's likely to take the role. Which I see nothing wrong with.
Smiling cnut!
Some of the posts on here are truly pathetic.
We could easily have been 2 or 3 up yesterday. The fred screw up killed things completely and all of a sudden it's re written as a terrible performance.
Ignoring also that when you have a man sent off 15mins into the second half against a team who have been excellent against top teams this year may just have been a factor too.
I've seen people write off oles magnificent start as just a new manager bump and now ridiculous doubts about his future.
The board acted as he was sensational and looked and sounded spot on to date. Even in defeat he has done.
Poch will be gutted that he's gone from looking at two top jobs to being stuck where he is.
We could easily have been 2 or 3 up yesterday. The fred screw up killed things completely and all of a sudden it's re written as a terrible performance.
Ignoring also that when you have a man sent off 15mins into the second half against a team who have been excellent against top teams this year may just have been a factor too.
I've seen people write off oles magnificent start as just a new manager bump and now ridiculous doubts about his future.
The board acted as he was sensational and looked and sounded spot on to date. Even in defeat he has done.
Poch will be gutted that he's gone from looking at two top jobs to being stuck where he is.
So, essentially what you're saying is 2015 Sturridge, Henderson, Milner & Can would be first picks for the current United squad? You've cherry picked 5 decent players out of a squad that included the likes of Skrtel, Borini, Lucas, Moreno, Kolo Toure & Mignolet as starters. The current United squad is miles ahead of what Klopp inherited. Klopp did well to finish 8th with the pile of shit squad Rodgers left him with imo.
No i'm saying to me there isn't much difference between Milner, Henderson, Can to Matic, Herrera and Fred. Coutinho produced as much as if not more for them than what Pogba does for us. Lovren, Skrtel, Sakho is not that much different to Smalling, Lindelof, Jones. Clyne, Lallana, Firmino comparable to Young, Lingard, Martial. So you're basically looking at De Gea, maybe Shaw, Lukaku and Rashford as significantly better options, it's not that big a difference.
Jose didn't smile. How'd that work out?
Potty decision yet again by the board to give Ole the job before the end of the season. And why not a 1 or at most 2 yearr contract to start - he would have taken it. Players were playing to get him the job and now that motivation has gone just when it's needed to fight for top four. Plus despite the good run its still very early days to make such a big decision - why the rush ? The club prooves yet it is run by a bunch of sentimental amateurs. This could come back to bite us on the ass. Sheesh .
On one hand I think some people are being completely batty/reactive because he's had a few bad games after basically having a perfect start, you're still very much in the top four race which was more than anybody could really have demanded when he took the job, and he got past PSG in the CL .. again, more than could be expected of him. Losing to Wolves twice and Arsenal away isn't great, but nor do they stand out as terrible results, both are tough trips. I thought you performed very poorly in the FA cup game, but in the two league matches actually played well but still lost, which .. happens. Not really Ole's fault in those games Lukaku couldn't hit a barn door or Young got himself sent off, individual errors cost you. You outplayed Arsenal at the Emirates (no easy feat, they dicked us and Chelsea there, outplayed Liverpool) but lost in a similar fashion to our result against you at Wembley.
Despite that though, I do think it was a little odd to give Ole a contract before the season ended. Might have been a better idea to evaluate where you were at when the season was done, look at possible candidates who may have been available, and then make a decision. Doing it now just seems a tad unnecessary and a bit of a desperate move because they saw he was popular with the fans and rushed to a decision, with genuine question marks still remaining about whether he can do it over a long period of time.
And I don't think people who simply hold concerns about that are kneejerking or being bad fans, just being realistic. If you get humped by Barca and end up sixth, Ole will still have been an improvement over Mourinho and brought some great moments to the team, but it will look a little bit like he was riding a wave. I suggested this a while back and it got dismissed, but the honeymoon period under a new manager is well documented and it's absolutely possible that Ole experienced an enhanced version of that because he came in as a happy go lucky legend replacing a toxic presence.
But is being that positive figure who 'is right for United' and says all the right things in the press really enough to qualify him for such a big job long term? I don't know. It's a risky move.
Despite that though, I do think it was a little odd to give Ole a contract before the season ended. Might have been a better idea to evaluate where you were at when the season was done, look at possible candidates who may have been available, and then make a decision. Doing it now just seems a tad unnecessary and a bit of a desperate move because they saw he was popular with the fans and rushed to a decision, with genuine question marks still remaining about whether he can do it over a long period of time.
And I don't think people who simply hold concerns about that are kneejerking or being bad fans, just being realistic. If you get humped by Barca and end up sixth, Ole will still have been an improvement over Mourinho and brought some great moments to the team, but it will look a little bit like he was riding a wave. I suggested this a while back and it got dismissed, but the honeymoon period under a new manager is well documented and it's absolutely possible that Ole experienced an enhanced version of that because he came in as a happy go lucky legend replacing a toxic presence.
But is being that positive figure who 'is right for United' and says all the right things in the press really enough to qualify him for such a big job long term? I don't know. It's a risky move.
Amazing how the club took a win-win situation and turned it into lose-lose. United never doing things the easy way.
It’s definitely risky but in the absence of any other obvious candidates (and I’m willing to accept that Pocchetino might not have been an option) I’d far rather take a punt on someone like Ole than some random flavour of the month from the continent.
Especially when he’s broken so many records in those opening run of fixtures. New manager bounces are common enough but he took that to a whole new level so thoroughly deserves this opportunity. If it doesn’t work out then so be it, we hire someone else next summer. Whatever, I’ve nothing but goodwill for Ole, no matter what happens. As should all United fans. And that’s a blessing all by itself after the previous three incumbents.
it's a bit scary for some given that we were on a run and the last few games we've reverted back to Mourinho level performances
you need to look at the big picture though....the key thing about leadership is values and vision - Ole understands United and he has a vision of how we should play.
He's shown he can be pragmatic and the next test will be to see how ruthless he can be
Matic was never a solution in midfield, we know how flaky Jesse, Lukaku and Martial can be, we know Lingard and Rom's technical limits. We know Smalling/Jones can be pretty good for 4 or 5 games then a disaster in the next. We know Young is on his way out. We know we've a number of players who are finished at United and just need sold asap. None of this is a surprise.
Ole needs the support of the Glazers in the Summer and they'd need to get the finger out in terms of backing him to the tune of arpund 200/250m
none of this is a surprise. I'm happy with the way we set up and a better striker than Lukaku or a more consistent creator than Lingard/Pogba and we win that game. I'm 100% behind Ole. Understands the club and he is the right man with the right attitude to improve us
you need to look at the big picture though....the key thing about leadership is values and vision - Ole understands United and he has a vision of how we should play.
He's shown he can be pragmatic and the next test will be to see how ruthless he can be
Matic was never a solution in midfield, we know how flaky Jesse, Lukaku and Martial can be, we know Lingard and Rom's technical limits. We know Smalling/Jones can be pretty good for 4 or 5 games then a disaster in the next. We know Young is on his way out. We know we've a number of players who are finished at United and just need sold asap. None of this is a surprise.
Ole needs the support of the Glazers in the Summer and they'd need to get the finger out in terms of backing him to the tune of arpund 200/250m
none of this is a surprise. I'm happy with the way we set up and a better striker than Lukaku or a more consistent creator than Lingard/Pogba and we win that game. I'm 100% behind Ole. Understands the club and he is the right man with the right attitude to improve us
This is the major problem.
There is no clear direction at the club. It's all a scatter-gun approach.
Time will tell if Ole is the right man or not, but it's become clear by now that Woodward should have zero say in footballing matters at this club. It's a joke that he still does.
Totally agree
The club is being run by biffs
As much as we would all love an ex player to do the buisness i feel appointing Ole will be the wrong decision in the long run.
Yea, he should stop looking like he’s enjoying the job. I miss having a dour faced manager.
Agreed 100%.
True, is it possible someone like Allegri could have been an option? I accept that his style may not be exactly what United fans are after. It's a good point that there may simply not have been anyone worth pursuing over Ole, as much as some United fans think it would just be a case of clicking their fingers and Poch would come running, it's never as easy as that, and Pochettino would have come with question marks of his own.
And yeah, his start was absolutely exceptional, beyond what anybody could have hoped for. I do think there's an element of new manager bounce but it clearly can't all be put down simple to that, he's done a really good job. There is a clear difference between doing well as a caretaker and running the show long term though, and Ole's lack of experience managing at the top level is a genuine concern. To go from Cardiff/Molde straight to managing Manchester United permanently is a humongous leap.
I do hope that if he does struggle next season and you part ways, it doesn't get ugly. Football fans have a habit of expecting loyalty from their players but very quickly turning very vicious/nasty when a player or manager isn't performing, look at how Young is treated on here, and whilst it's fair to say he isn't good enough to start he's still a loyal servant who is deserving at some level of respect, not abuse. Appreciate that with Ole it's different since he's a bonafide legend, but again, my faith in football fans is limited. Even I can admit I'm a total wanker about some of our own players at times when they're frustrating.
I'd love to see Ole start distancing himself from SAF & previous united teams and try to really impose a new style of football over the summer. For the remaining games, we should set up as we do and, assuming the players can turn up next time, get the end of the season and fight to make top 4.
I'd like to see a new dawn of us moving into a new style of high pressing, possession based football. Not to the extremes of tiki taka but having a midfield that can control a game and a front three where the wide men are actually wide men and whoever has the ball always has options. There's always a knee jerk thread about a 'clearout' but I think for once this is what's needed. A very busy transfer window and a rule, set in stone, that we will no longer keep shoehorning players into roles. No more RW turned RBs for example
I'd like to see a new dawn of us moving into a new style of high pressing, possession based football. Not to the extremes of tiki taka but having a midfield that can control a game and a front three where the wide men are actually wide men and whoever has the ball always has options. There's always a knee jerk thread about a 'clearout' but I think for once this is what's needed. A very busy transfer window and a rule, set in stone, that we will no longer keep shoehorning players into roles. No more RW turned RBs for example
We love Ole, so I don't think there's any worry of that. He'd probably be the first to point out that he's not doing well if it happens.
Things were always going to get tough for Ole at some point. He has to work with what Mourinho left him. He has shown good ability in getting the job in the first place.
His movement of players in and out will be interesting to see. His judgment of players will be crucial. He has seen what he inherited. Now how good a judge of player is he?
His movement of players in and out will be interesting to see. His judgment of players will be crucial. He has seen what he inherited. Now how good a judge of player is he?
The club doesn't seem in any way sure of how to build a modern identity because SAF was so much a part of it. He really was the identity more so than any system or type of player or anything like that. Fergie time is hardly an identity, but it's the only real philosophical term pundits (or god forbid ex United players) throw out there to describe us. Everything came through him, and you can hardly blame Moyes, LVG or Mourinho for failing when there was no structure in place, no system, no player recruitment, no nothing by the time Fergie left. He was literally, through his own magical and legendary ways, dragging a team with RVP and little else to a title.
Ole feels a little like running back to that. If he makes it work it will be legendary in his own right. But SAF wasn't the only legendary, long-tenured coach in sport. I think the teams/clubs that have to replace someone of that stature are typically better off finding a guy with a new and different philosophy and the confidence to achieve it.
You'd hope so, wouldn't be nice at all to see things end badly for him.
It's weird, we're rivals and all and obviously I want top four over you, but Ole comes across as a really likeable bloke and I want him to do well. Doesn't seem to be much of an ego there like with other managers.
If we don't get top4 this season or next I'm sure he'll resign a la Zidane. He wants what's best for United. I'm hoping the new contracts for chuckle brothers and Young were forced upon him by Woodward before he was made permanent.
Isn’t Young’s new contract only a one year extension anyway? It’s barely feck all other than hopefully just as cover for full back next season since Valencia is leaving and both leaving would leave a gap.
Jones has a shiny new contract but it could be just as a depth player. OGS seems to heavily favour Lindelöf and Smalling at the moment and it’s not like Jones is starting every game now.
Jones has a shiny new contract but it could be just as a depth player. OGS seems to heavily favour Lindelöf and Smalling at the moment and it’s not like Jones is starting every game now.
Zidane losing to 6th place Valencia. The kind of manager we should have waited until the end of the season to appoint instead.
Seems majority of loud complaints coming from us being outside of top 4 nonsense then anything else, which is disappointing for me because personally dont give a shit about top 4 thing. After JM we had a chance to set out standards clear and not back of those an inch but it seems with each passing game and talk about giving Ole a job, agenda changed slowly to results being way above anything else, which would lead us into top 4 and give better chances to Ole to land a job.
Our approach in games isnt the same compared to first games under Ole, people can defend it with squad being burned due them not being used to specific style. but watching McT last night, he didnt look depleted of energy and yet the moment Matic was fit enough to play he got instant back into first XI, where he looked like oil tanker and decisions like those are on Ole, lets not kid ourself.
Our approach in games isnt the same compared to first games under Ole, people can defend it with squad being burned due them not being used to specific style. but watching McT last night, he didnt look depleted of energy and yet the moment Matic was fit enough to play he got instant back into first XI, where he looked like oil tanker and decisions like those are on Ole, lets not kid ourself.
Yh I agree, it's such a legacy that you can't help but be drawn back to it but you're right - in our later seasons I feel he was dragging players through and we weren't always playing great football. In a very weird way, I would have loved for us to stick with LVG just to see what we would look like now (maybe that's just the *in Dutch accent sex masochist in me)because I do feel that manager's with some kind of tactical differentiation are what is needed (Klopp's gegenpress bullsheet, Conte's 5 at the back, Pep's Barca brand).
If you ask someone what is Barcelona's style of play - they can give you a very specific answer. The same goes for City, Athletico, Juve, Madrid (under Zidane), Liverpool, Spurs, PSG.... but if you ask someone how we play it's normally a bit of a contradiction: we're a defensive, counter attacking team, that also apparently attacks, should use wingers and loves along ball. For me Ole's task will be bringing in a handful of good players and really ironing out how he wants us to play.
Great post!
I agree. Poch has showed that he knows how to build and develop players, while also implementing a progressive philosophy. This is what United needed going forward and to get back on top of Europe. However, I am willing to give Ole a year and see how he does. Pochettino needs to show that he is also good at spending big in the market and developing and nurturing players who has extremely big ego.
The magnificent resurgence of our form from the point of Ole taking over post-Mourinho, impressive though it is, was never a true reflection on the quality of the squad. The recent dip in performances and results, in my opinion, are the evidence of what we already knew about our squad; that they are inconsistent, capable of both excellent and poor performances. Certainly with an objective mind, any observant person can spot some of the same issues with which we've experienced in recent games also present within the games that we won during that great run. We were fortunate to win some games on during that great run of results, and similarly, we were unfortunate to not win some games recently when chances were not taken.
All this to say that quality evens itself out. Ole's initial run of results was never a sustainable reality, and the reason we're looking Mourinho-esque is because over time the squad quality is simply of that standard. Expecting more from Ole outside of necessary recruitment would perhaps be unfair on him.
All this to say that quality evens itself out. Ole's initial run of results was never a sustainable reality, and the reason we're looking Mourinho-esque is because over time the squad quality is simply of that standard. Expecting more from Ole outside of necessary recruitment would perhaps be unfair on him.
It's going to take time because the market is destroyed. So a squad player can cost crazy money. We need quite a few players. Barcelona will be a tough tie but we just have to be positive. It's important we attack these teams because when we were brave (other then the arsenal game), we've been good. The performances against Wolves were a mixed bag but we need to step up again. Show that same level and intensity and we'll win more then we lose.
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