Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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largelyworried said:
The trouble with this argument is that the flaws that undermined us this season were completely on display last season. This isn't like an impervious defence suddenly becoming leaky or a flood of goals suddenly running dry. The team has lacked many of the fundamentals that the best teams have throughout Ole's time and we showed no signs of progress by the end of last season. So while the degree of this season's meltdown may be a surprise, the fact that we're struggling at all is surely a surprise to no one?
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It is and it isnt. We did get some excellent results last season and finishing second was decent. There was however the flaws you state but they were covered a bit by a lot of white noise about last season. "We need a right winger", "We need better coaching", "You cant win under a poor structure at the club", "We need to sort out the goalkeeper situation", "we need a central defender", 'There no crowds", "We left our transfer business too late so started badly".

This season we corrected most. DDG was back on form, bought the defender and wide player nice and early, brought in a set piece coach, more settled structure at the club with Murtough and Fletcher looking at recruitment, the new players allowing Ole to change the set up of the team.

Basically I think Ole was handed the tools to demonstrate if our issues were real issues or if the problem was him. We now have our answer. This was his chance to prove himself because everything was handed to him to make it work so when he hasn't we can be under no illusion who is to blame. Which is why I am so against people complaining about everything else at the club from the price of hotdog to the colour of the grass being the problem. Its not, its the manager.
 
9 Stone Elvis said:
It is and it isnt. We did get some excellent results last season and finishing second was decent. There was however the flaws you state but they were covered a bit by a lot of white noise about last season. "We need a right winger", "We need better coaching", "You cant win under a poor structure at the club", "We need to sort out the goalkeeper situation", "we need a central defender", 'There no crowds", "We left our transfer business too late so started badly".

This season we corrected most. DDG was back on form, bought the defender and wide player nice and early, brought in a set piece coach, more settled structure at the club with Murtough and Fletcher looking at recruitment, the new players allowing Ole to change the set up of the team.

Basically I think Ole was handed the tools to demonstrate if our issues were real issues or if the problem was him. We now have our answer. This was his chance to prove himself because everything was handed to him to make it work so when he hasn't we can be under no illusion who is to blame. Which is why I am so against people complaining about everything else at the club from the price of hotdog to the colour of the grass being the problem. Its not, its the manager.
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The flaws were indeed clear and it is also now clear that Ole and team have no idea how to address them. He chased Sancho for 2 years but has no idea how to best use him. The modern game sees full backs press high and be a key attack point, yet we sign AWB who has none of those attributes. Bruno bailed out Ole and the team last season, he cant do that alone indefinitely. The only reason Ole is still here, or here at all, is Woodward. All Woodward now cares about is protecting his legacy, he doesnt want Ole to go down as his third and biggest managerial disaster (though appointing a past sell by date Mourinho who only seems to have self-destruct mode will always run Ole close).
 
I'm not buying this Woodward legacy talk. Woodward will be remembered by the fans as an abject failure whatever happens next. He will be admired and thanked by the Glazers though and that disconnect and football incompetence is why we are in the shit we are in.
 
Gordon Godot said:
The flaws were indeed clear and it is also now clear that Ole and team have no idea how to address them. He chased Sancho for 2 years but has no idea how to best use him. The modern game sees full backs press high and be a key attack point, yet we sign AWB who has none of those attributes. Bruno bailed out Ole and the team last season, he cant do that alone indefinitely. The only reason Ole is still here, or here at all, is Woodward. All Woodward now cares about is protecting his legacy, he doesnt want Ole to go down as his third and biggest managerial disaster (though appointing a past sell by date Mourinho who only seems to have self-destruct mode will always run Ole close).
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That makes literally no sense.

How does keeping Ole improve Woodwards legacy? It absolutely doesnt. Ole will go down however he will go down regardless.
 
Bizarre little games those aren't they.
Full size goals, yet the pitch about 1/20th the size.
 
Sandikan said:
Bizarre little games those aren't they.
Full size goals, yet the pitch about 1/20th the size.
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Still no practice on patterns or pressing it seems. Just fun, vibes and players expressing themselves. I've never seen a video of something tactical, it's always the same: little possession game with Fletcher (a technical director) involved, it's like City would have Begiristain Mujika running around, Carrick and Ole smiling in the background, and then playing like in the video. Worst coach in the league. It's embarrassing at this point.
 
Woodward is a corporate guy. He doesn’t give a shit about ‘legacy’. Not saying he doesn’t want to do well but the idea that all he’s concerned with is his ‘legacy’ is ridiculous.
 
stw2022 said:
Woodward is a corporate guy. He doesn’t give a shit about ‘legacy’. Not saying he doesn’t want to do well but the idea that all he’s concerned with is his ‘legacy’ is ridiculous.
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Exactly and even if he did, keeping a failing manager isnt going to improve it regardless. Bizarre comment.
 
stw2022 said:
Woodward is a corporate guy. He doesn’t give a shit about ‘legacy’. Not saying he doesn’t want to do well but the idea that all he’s concerned with is his ‘legacy’ is ridiculous.
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He isn't just a corporate guy, he is a finance guy. I'm speculating but I don't think that he has too much understanding of any corporate thing beyond that, I still don't understand how he convinced himself that he didn't need an actual COO. The point being that, you are right legacy is most likely not something he thinks too much about and he most likely wants to do well but has no clue how whether we are talking about the corporate or technical side of things.
 
L1nk said:


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Tiptoeing over a failing manager, never thought I'd see United descend to such depths. They are prepared to write off the season or disturb plans for a possible recovery just to pamper a grown but failing man's ego.

We don't stand a chance at all against Liverpool, Chelsea or City because the Glazers and their flunkey hold us back by about 70% due to their idiocy and indecision. We are pretty much sending the team into the season with their legs tied to sacks of Woodward idiocy.
 
"first real blip" just shows how disconnected they are with reality.
 
I knew that they wouldn’t be in talks behind Ole’s back, it’s not even to protect Ole it’s just through being completely inept as a board.

Pathetic management from the board and owners.

The concern is that we will potentially go on a real run of results in this next period of the season and they will feel vindicated in not doing anything, but I would never wish the team to lose. Sad times.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I knew that they wouldn’t be in talks behind Ole’s back, it’s not even to protect Ole it’s just through being completely inept as a board.

Pathetic management from the board and owners.

The concern is that we will potentially go on a real run of results in this next period of the season and they will feel vindicated in not doing anything, but I would never wish the team to lose. Sad times.
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It's not about wishing the team to lose, that's anathema but the fact that the board lacks the vision to see that Ole cannot deliver when it really matters and are easily fooled brings people to the conclusion that some of these wins are damaging. Looking at how the last couple of weeks have panned out one could be forgiven if they conclude that our win at Tottenham was really damaging to our future prospects whilst the Spurs fans could look at that day as their turning point from a two year rut.

Whilst we all enjoy it when the team wins we have to realize that winning under Ole is short term because even if the team wins the next 15 on the trot Ole is bound to fall into another rut again. You can never really win anything, especially with the nature of the competition we face in this league, if you don't have the capacity to nip bad runs of form in the bud. Just like in January, we went top and a few bad results later CITY had run away with the title.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I knew that they wouldn’t be in talks behind Ole’s back, it’s not even to protect Ole it’s just through being completely inept as a board.

Pathetic management from the board and owners.

The concern is that we will potentially go on a real run of results in this next period of the season and they will feel vindicated in not doing anything, but I would never wish the team to lose. Sad times.
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Although I agree it’s time for a change and this isn’t working, there should be zero concern that we go on an unbeaten run and win games, maybe even win something. If that does happen then maybe they are vindicated? Results should come before any emotion people are attaching to the manager, coaching staff or club in general.
 
Raw said:
First real blip?! :lol: Guess the last 3 seasons were all brilliant then.
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THis is what you get with clowns running the club who are more concerned with selling shirts and Twitter followers than trophies. Woodward has no idea about what good football is. To describe the hammering by Liverpool and the cowardly surrender to City by Ole 'Utd DNA' Solskjaer as a 'blip' underlines their ignorance. Before we even talk about AWB, Sancho, VDB, Lingard etc
 
At this point I believe we have a bunch of Liverpool supporters running the club :lol:

Surely they can't be this thick! It has deliberate negligence
 
Jadon Sancho, Amad Diallo, Marcus Rashford, Mason Greenwood are some of the most talented attackers of their age-mates I'd say. Absolute ballers, we have one of the world's best attackers in Ronaldo and a class seasoned striker in Cavani.

We barely get to enjoy that as our manager is clueless, but yet some are hinting at Ole In again if we beat Watford. This club.
 
9 Stone Elvis said:
You are missing the point of what Im saying. Im not saying 'didn't we do well?" Im saying there was in incremental improvement because getting to a European final and finishing second in the Leagues IS better than not getting to a European final and finishing 3rd or 4th.
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No I totally got what you said. I was just saying it’s kind of funny that we use this getting to a European final as a way of saying Ole has improved when in actuality the only reason we were in that competition was because we finished second last in the original one.

And yeah I hear what you’re saying incremental improvement in terms of results. Not in football. And not really on points. I’m in same boat as you. I didn’t fully lose faith in Ole until this season. But it sure was rocked in that final when he made no subs and looked like a rabbit in the headlights. That was some of the worst football management I’ve ever witnessed.
One of my main issues with Ole is he doesn’t appear to be very self critical and nor does his captain. And neither will improve because of it.
 
9 Stone Elvis said:
You are missing the point of what Im saying. Im not saying 'didn't we do well?" Im saying there was in incremental improvement because getting to a European final and finishing second in the Leagues IS better than not getting to a European final and finishing 3rd or 4th. Thats just a fact and Im saying based on that improvement I was ok with him being allowed to remain in post for this season. I dont see that as "rewarding failure" I think its giving the man in post a fair crack of the whip. If it had gone the other way and we had cracked on this season with further improvement with a improved tactical approach and a title challenge it would have been a good move. He hasn't so I agree he should go.

Lets also not forget and I firmly believe this. Had we sacked Ole in the Summer as many have said, and the new man had come in and not hit the ground running a large percentage of the fan base would have absolutely hammered the club for removing Ole when he *may* have kicked on this season and in the traditional "path not taken" mind of the football supporter we would all have assumed the improvement.
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Very true. He wasnt good enough and we expected and rightly so happened that Liverpool wouldnt be so bad again due to injuries and Tuchel would revigorise Chelsea, but if he had been sacked you would have had Oily boy, Sofa and the other fanboys on here saying we would have won the league this year if he hadnt have been sacked.
 
Desert Eagle said:
I'm not buying this Woodward legacy talk. Woodward will be remembered by the fans as an abject failure whatever happens next. He will be admired and thanked by the Glazers though and that disconnect and football incompetence is why we are in the shit we are in.
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Exactly. in fact if he was to sack Ole as his last act the fans would think better of him for that at least. Who does he think will be saying in years to come he tarnished his legacy? :lol:
feck me he has been a disaster on the football front and hasnt got a legacy to tarnish.
 
9 Stone Elvis said:
You are missing the point of what Im saying. Im not saying 'didn't we do well?" Im saying there was in incremental improvement because getting to a European final and finishing second in the Leagues IS better than not getting to a European final and finishing 3rd or 4th.
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He took over a squad than won the EL and got second in the league the year before. Hardly a huge success was it
 
SER19 said:
Christ we have so much exciting attacking talent this is painful to watch
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Worth noting that they look better than they are there because they were up against Man United defenders.
 
Desert Eagle said:
That is fecking weird if fletcher is involved in training.
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… Makes it less likely that Fletcher will recommend firing Ole, doesn’t it? Especially as Ole brought him in (and Fletcher, even as Technical Director, probably doesn’t even have any real say on the matter). The set up is just weird.

Also read about the ”first real blip” thing today. What about the end of 2018-2019? Or last year’s Champions League exit? Or losing 6-1 to Spurs? Is Woodward actually becoming more incompetent? I can’t believe how little he gets football.
 
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9 Stone Elvis said:
You are missing the point of what Im saying. Im not saying 'didn't we do well?" Im saying there was in incremental improvement because getting to a European final and finishing second in the Leagues IS better than not getting to a European final and finishing 3rd or 4th. Thats just a fact and Im saying based on that improvement I was ok with him being allowed to remain in post for this season. I dont see that as "rewarding failure" I think its giving the man in post a fair crack of the whip. If it had gone the other way and we had cracked on this season with further improvement with a improved tactical approach and a title challenge it would have been a good move. He hasn't so I agree he should go.

Lets also not forget and I firmly believe this. Had we sacked Ole in the Summer as many have said, and the new man had come in and not hit the ground running a large percentage of the fan base would have absolutely hammered the club for removing Ole when he *may* have kicked on this season and in the traditional "path not taken" mind of the football supporter we would all have assumed the improvement.
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There is a vast difference between the CL final and the EL final. Speaking for most of us here, reaching the EL final did not induce anything remotely close to the kind of euphoria that reaching the CL does. And losing the EL didn't hurt as much as losing the CL final might have (as I assume it hurt City fans) because it's a second rate competition.

But the more intriguing point you make is that fans would have hammered the club for sacking Ole had the new manager not have the squad hit the ground running. Possibly, but I doubt that. You might recall that we finished the 20/21 in poor form, with poor results trickling in, week by sad week. Nothing like right now, but the disillusionment was real and the appetite was there to sack Ole. Had we brought in a new manager we might still have seen the kind of diabolical performances to begin the season that we've seen under Ole, but not only is that doubtful it's also unlikely that club supporters would demand that new manager's sacking.

The point is this: What we've witnessed under Ole this season is nothing that we haven't seen before. This is a continuation of what we've seen under Ole, on and off, for the last three seasons. A new manager may have needed some bedding in to get used to the demands of United, but I'm pretty sure club supporters would not have demanded a sacking after only three months.
 
Loved that video, watching lads training, its like Matic was coaching them, none did less than 3 touches, good shit lul
 
LInkash said:
Ole hard at work coaching the team.

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Like a fun kids soccer camp that session. 5 aside with big goals. All get a selfie after as we won that game. Really great coaching there ole & co.

Be fine he be talking crap tomorrow in press conference. Lads looking sharpe and full of energy after week off.

Then come Saturday can't string 5 passes together we have no shape or patterns of play. Could play 5 at the back or 4. Need to get in there faces and play on front foot but end up sitting deep and no pressure or desire to win ball back and gaps all over the pitch where Watford wil exploit.
 
1:20 of that training video.

Is that Ole's new plan for our defence to beat the press? Hold off a defender and hope the defender can skin the oncoming attacker?

I don't see anyone coming to give an option in that clip, which is pretty much what we seen week in week out when teams press us.

Good to know this is being worked on.
 
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