Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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No matter what anyone says, the players are not as bad as theyre currently playing. If they were this bad we would be relegated, honestly we can’t blame all in them.
It's a bit of both. We weren't as good as the run we went on when he joined indicated and likewise, we're not as bad as the run we're currently on indicates. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

Also, bear in mind that we could and should have won the games against Arsenal, Wolves (in the league), and Chelsea and but for uncharacteristic mistakes in all three, we'd have got more in all three games. It's not as if we've been absolutely woeful. Look at who we've played during this run as well. Literally any team would struggle when you have to play PSG and Barca twice during that run of games, as well as Chelsea and Arsenal. The only games which you could say we were deservedly beaten in were Everton and Wolves. Thats it. The draw today was as bad, and the Chelsea result felt like a loss because of what was at stake, but we created plenty of chances to win both games and we shat the bed. There was good, intricate play which went unrewarded, and all that is seemingly forgotten.

It's this context which is missing from all the doomsday merchants. It's literally a storm in a teacup, IMO.

I'd rather we get EL and have a genuine chance at winning that trophy (and in the process be placed among the 1st seeds in next season's CL) rather than struggle our way through the group and have our season finish in February again. Let Ole build something meaningful and substantial. He'll play the kids in the Group Stages, maybe even all the way to the R32/R16 and then let the first team focus on the League campaign. Hopefully with the incoming transfers we'll see a much stronger squad and a team that will be much more incisive and at it from the get go rather than the labouring mess we were in August last year.
 
people that think "running more" will fix everything :lol:

Ole is out of his depth.
“ Running “ ie work rate is the minimum requirement for any team

If he is out of his depth then so was LVG and Jose some of these players are toxic , some are simply not good enough and others are past it ,we just about got away with it last season but now they are more toxic , even further past it or still not good enough and worsening.
The worst squad I’ve seen at United since we were relegated
 
So I am saying there is something wrong with their bottle/mentality so obviously I am saying we have the quality (technically) but there is something wrong when the pressure is on

Thats one of the problems, but I think there’s a lack of fight and desire in the squad.

Ole claims we are not fit enough, then I want to see the players come out with muscular injuries and tired after everygame, knowing they gave their all. Instead we watch the players walking around and ending without breaking a sweat and just claming “yeah we are not fit enough”.

Its a loser mentality, many of this players are happy with the top 4 result. They don't aspire to titles, they say they do but they have been so far for so many years that it’s impossible to believe them.
 
Nah, I’m not having it. 2 wins in 11. Get out.
Sorry but that's daft. Poch could've came in and achieved something similar, would you tell him to get out before giving him a summer? You're not ruthless, you're just the king of the kneejerkers.
 
Last season we lost. But Huddersfield wanted it more last season and they were up for it. Hence why they survived in the premier league last season.

This season we played a Huddersfield who were relegated with nothing to play for whilst we had everything to play for and couldn’t beat them.

Running more shouldn’t factor in when we play the mighty Huddersfield. That is standard stuff. Do you think City or Liverpool just work on running all season? They don’t work on attacking patterns or movement up front. Or ball possession. Can you even honestly say you seen anything from Ole to suggest he has some style of play.
No it is really that simple you need to work hard. Hudderfield wanted more today as well. Of course talent helps a lot of the time but when you are struggling and little is going for you there is one thing you can always do and that is running. This work ethic has nothing to do with Ole as this has been our plan for years.. And sadly this squad doesnt have the talent to make up for not working hard.
 
No it is really that simple you need to work hard. Hudderfield wanted more today as well. Of course talent helps a lot of the time but when you are struggling and little is going for you there is one thing you can always do and that is running. This work ethic has nothing to do with Ole as this has been our plan for years.. And sadly this squad doesnt have the talent to make up for not working hard.

So can you tell me what type of football Ole wants to implement? Because I just don’t see anything. Pep in his first season you could see what he was trying to do even though he had shit. Same with Klopp. What’s Ole trying?
 
I was just venting to be fair. If Ole stays I'll support him, just think we should move for a proven manager like Poch if he's available. I think Pogba going could be a blessing in disguise. Despite his talent the team needs to be built around him and he just isn't that player unfortunately.

I hope he does play the kids too. I remian hugely sceptical that Ole is the man to take this club forward though. I hope I'm proven wrong because if he had the ability, he'd be ideal.

We're all venting tonight.

I don't know if Ole is the man either, but he deserves a fair chance to prove himself as his predecessors had.

Poch will still be available if/when Ole fails.
 
The problem is that, when he was appointed, the sole reason for giving him the job was his results with this group of players. The way he got a tune out of them. And now they've abandoned him.

But there are hardly any other candidates out there. Poch is the only game in town and even he's had some shocking results this season. If a Marco Silva or Nuno has another good year next year, we'll have an obvious alternative. But until then, we don't.

So let's give Ole the summer and see what he does. I don't think he's the man for us long term but hopefully he'll clear out the crap and sign some young, promising players who actually want to play for us. The fact that we're in the Europa League might actually help us in that respect.
 
It's a bit of both. We weren't as good as the run we went on when he joined indicated and likewise, we're not as bad as the run we're currently on indicates. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

Also, bear in mind that we could and should have won the games against Arsenal, Wolves (in the league), and Chelsea and but for uncharacteristic mistakes in all three, we'd have got more in all three games. It's not as if we've been absolutely woeful. Look at who we've played during this run as well. Literally any team would struggle when you have to play PSG and Barca twice during that run of games, as well as Chelsea and Arsenal. The only games which you could say we were deservedly beaten in were Everton and Wolves. Thats it. The draw today was as bad, and the Chelsea result felt like a loss because of what was at stake, but we created plenty of chances to win both games and we shat the bed. There was good, intricate play which went unrewarded, and all that is seemingly forgotten.

It's this context which is missing from all the doomsday merchants. It's literally a storm in a teacup, IMO.

I'd rather we get EL and have a genuine chance at winning that trophy (and in the process be placed among the 1st seeds in next season's CL) rather than struggle our way through the group and have our season finish in February again. Let Ole build something meaningful and substantial. He'll play the kids in the Group Stages, maybe even all the way to the R32/R16 and then let the first team focus on the League campaign. Hopefully with the incoming transfers we'll see a much stronger squad and a team that will be much more incisive and at it from the get go rather than the labouring mess we were in August last year.

It’s not just the lost as a result, is the way we played. The only games we deserved more was in the Arsenal and Wolves games, but we also deserved less against Watford and West Ham.

Winning the europa league, and just the fact that you mentioned it, proves how low we’ve fallen. Thats a second tier competition, we shouldn’t be happy to win it when we shouldnt be in it in the first place.

Regarding the thing that Ole will give youngsters a chance, we have absolutely no proff of this. He has showed very little faith in them, giving them minutes only when he was forced to because of suspension and injuries. He is all talk about giving youngsters a chance, with the current form of the team it wasn’t hard to make a case to play some youngsters. But instead he keept playing the same failing players time and time again.
 
We're all venting tonight.

I don't know if Ole is the man either, but he deserves a fair chance to prove himself as his predecessors had.

Poch will still be available if/when Ole fails.
Exactly. Poch is going nowhere this summer. There will be more candidates this time next year too.
 
You mean 4 Champions League’s in 5 years? Yeah I do wish we were more like Madrid. Who the feck wouldn’t?

They’re ruthless. They have standards and they know when they aren’t being met.

We’re too caught up in this sentimental nostalgia blast that we can’t see what’s happening in front of our eyes. Solskjær is a Glazer puppet. You can’t say you’re Anti-Glazer and then badmouth Mourinho and support Solskjær. It’s hypocrisy.

Solskjær said these players were a dream to work with. Infact I believe the quote was “Football is easy when you have players like these”... Now he’s backtracking and saying he needs a rebuild.

Nah, I’m not having it. 2 wins in 11. Get out.
You'd rather forsake everything that this club was built on for trophies? Seriously, get to feck and go support those hankie waving twats.

Ole is such a Glazer stoodge that he was the only player who had the balls to call them out when they first bought the club... :rolleyes: Seriously, how old are you? Any fan worth his/her salt would know this.

He's been with them for four months, literally none of them were players he had any say in bringing in (outside of the kids). At least give him a season or two before you implode. Those players have proven themselves to turn it on only when they want to. They can be as talented as they like, but if they haven't got that mentality, then it's absolutely worthless. Talent is easy to spot, but character can only be determined during the difficult moments and he'll have learnt so much more in this run than he ever would have during the easy times.

I'm fully backing Ole to bring in the players he needs and ship out the ones who needed shipping but it won't be done in one summer.
 
So can you tell me what type of football Ole wants to implement? Because I just don’t see anything. Pep in his first season you could see what he was trying to do even though he had shit. Same with Klopp. What’s Ole trying?
You will get answer; fast attacking football. It is not that important that nobody saw that but people just know it. Ole said it so it is his style. With Ole we reached new level of excuses. People judge him based on his words not on what they see on the pitch.
Amazing really.
 
The problem is that, when he was appointed, the sole reason for giving him the job was his results with this group of players. The way he got a tune out of them. And now they've abandoned him.

But there are hardly any other candidates out there. Poch is the only game in town and even he's had some shocking results this season. If a Marco Silva or Nuno has another good year next year, we'll have an obvious alternative. But until then, we don't.

So let's give Ole the summer and see what he does. I don't think he's the man for us long term but hopefully he'll clear out the crap and sign some young, promising players who actually want to play for us. The fact that we're in the Europa League might actually help us in that respect.

Conte is still free I think. His football might be a bit defensive, but his teams can score goals too. Pogba played well for him in Juventus. He has also wanted Lukaku before so maybe could do something with him. Won the league and cup with Chelsea even if his second year was poor. I guess that second year is a bit of a worry just like Mourinhos last year before he joined us.

I think he is flexible enough to do something with our squad though and a few top players in. I think moving to a more possesion based attacking manager would probably be harder for us.
 
I in no way blame Solskjaer for the mess the club is in, we are seeing the result of a decade of bad management, recruitment, investment in the correct areas and lack of a coherent vision. This mess is not Solskjaer's fault. What ever happens, and i suspect this is going to end badly, he will still be one of my favorite players.

But even if this mess isn't his fault that doesn't mean he is the right man for job, he was a great temporary appointment, he made everyone smile seeing Ole on the side line. But where talking about a guy whose main qualification for getting the job is he is a club legend, not his managerial experience, which is patchy at best. Nearly no one thought he should get the job on a permanent bases when he was hired as caretaker and no one would give him the job now on a permanent bases, if we hadn't been rash and gave him the job before seeing if what was happening was just a great new manager bounce, which it is now quite clear to see it obviously was.

He should never have been given the job on a full time bases before the end of the season and before the appointment of a Director of Football. Now we are left with manager who seems obsessed with how things where at the club 20 years ago and has nothing on his resume that points towards him been capable of over seeing what needs to be the biggest restructure the club has seen since the 80's. Who already seems incapable of motivating the players.

Their is no shame in us admitting we made a mistake appointing Ole, and that we fell into the trap so many clubs have and rashly gave an under-qualified caretaker manager the job. It's far better doing that then letting him spend hundreds of millions this summer when he has no experience doing so and the club doesn't have the infrastructure to support him. Because the likely outcome is we will be sitting here next summer going ow shit we messed up again we need to start from scratch again.

We shouldn't be as blind as to say we gave him the job now we must see it through.
 
They’re English, you need a certain amount in a squad due to league rules.

Whether he actually wanted to renew them? It was probably sorted by Woodward and he had to go along with it.

If we don’t get a new CB and continue with them then yes I’ll be worried. He hasn’t had a chance to change anything.

What a lame excuse, we are the richest club in the world. If by rule we need to have english players we should had, if not the best ones, at least some good ones. Not those clowns
 
Honestly if you told me that after we sacked Moyes - 6 years later we'd have a manager who oversaw Cardiff's relegation that same season, I would have told you you're insane.

There's a strong chance he could be worse than Moyes which could set us back even more so.

Woodward has utterly failed at his job.

The one common denominator for our post SAF woes.
 
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Its based on the fact that in the initial games the players won’t stop praising Ole and as soon as the bad results started no player has come out to support him. Isnt that and indication of something?

Or do you believe he sidelined Martial because of an “injury”
It isn't. Especially since some of them talked about needing to do better. Martial has been maybe sidelined cause his shit attitude.
 
Ole may or may not turn good, we don’t know that yet.
What we do know is that most of the players will never be good enough, that we know for sure, for watching them play under 4 or 3 or two managers, and they’ve failed us time and time again.

aye man, if you're going to use the player's supposed failures to indict them, you can't just skip over Ole presiding over our worst run of form since 1962 and calmly give him the benefit of the doubt :lol: same guy that relegated Cardiff and flocked to some fishermen league to patch up his CV

also, these are the same players that went on the winning run that got him the job
 
What a lame excuse, we are the richest club in the world. If by rule we need to have english players we should had, if not the best ones, at least some good ones. Not those clowns

Yeah, for all the good it's done. We've spent £750 million on players since Fergie retired and we're no closer to being a stable top four club than we were after Moyes was sacked.
 
Poll would be good here. With one simple question without but and if;
Should Ole be sacked now or not?
 
That doesn't mean they think he's clueless.

You think they'd say it outright? Of course not. They were full of praise for him during the honeymoon period and players usually defend managers (lip service a lot of it) even during hard times
 
Yeah, for all the good it's done. We've spent £750 million on players since Fergie retired and we're no closer to being a stable top four club than we were after Moyes was sacked.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with my main point. Jones and Young are shite players and shouldnt be keep under the argument of being english.
 
1 - Klopp (Liverpool): W15 / D4 / L1 / Goals 50-15 (+35) / Points: 49
2 - Guardiola (Manchester City):
W16 / D0 / L3 / Goals 42-12 (+30) / Points: 48
3 - Solskjær (Manchester United): W12 / D4 / L4 / Goals: 36-23 (+13) / Points: 40
4 - Sarri (Chelsea): W10 / D4 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 34
5 - Emery (Arsenal): W10 / D3 / L7 / Goals: 33-27 (+6) / Points: 33
6 - Santo (Wolverhampton): W9 / D5 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 32
7 - Pochettino (Tottenham): W10 / D1 / L9 / Goals: 34-21 (+13) / Points: 31

...and on that list only one person is playing with a team he's had no influence in shaping whatsoever - one he inherited - and don't even get me started on what that table looked like when he took over for Mourinho then you'd also realize that what he inherited was a total mess way closer to the bottom half than the top four. People who are eagerly dismissive of Ole are completely lost of context and also suffering from short-term memory - and a selective one at that.
 
You think they'd say it outright? Of course not. They were full of praise for him during the honeymoon period and players usually defend managers (lip service a lot of it) even during hard times
Them saying they should do better means it's not his fault. Let's not make things up.
 
1 - Klopp (Liverpool): W15 / D4 / L1 / Goals 50-15 (+35) / Points: 49
2 - Guardiola (Manchester City): W16 / D0 / L3 / Goals 42-12 (+30) / Points: 48
3 - Solskjær (Manchester United): W12 / D4 / L4 / Goals: 36-23 (+13) / Points: 40
4 - Sarri (Chelsea): W10 / D4 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 34
5 - Emery (Arsenal): W10 / D3 / L7 / Goals: 33-27 (+6) / Points: 33
6 - Santo (Wolverhampton): W9 / D5 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 32
7 - Pochettino (Tottenham): W10 / D1 / L9 / Goals: 34-21 (+13) / Points: 31

...and on that list only one person is playing with a team he's had no influence in shaping whatsoever - one he inherited - and don't even get me started on what that table looked like when he took over for Mourinho then you'd also realize that what he inherited was a total mess way closer to the bottom half than the top four. People who are eagerly dismissive of Ole are completely lost of context and also suffering from short-term memory - and a selective one at that.
Seeing as we're doing tables, we're 12th in the table since he became permanent.
 
It’s not just the lost as a result, is the way we played. The only games we deserved more was in the Arsenal and Wolves games, but we also deserved less against Watford and West Ham.

Winning the europa league, and just the fact that you mentioned it, proves how low we’ve fallen. Thats a second tier competition, we shouldn’t be happy to win it when we shouldnt be in it in the first place.

Regarding the thing that Ole will give youngsters a chance, we have absolutely no proff of this. He has showed very little faith in them, giving them minutes only when he was forced to because of suspension and injuries. He is all talk about giving youngsters a chance, with the current form of the team it wasn’t hard to make a case to play some youngsters. But instead he keept playing the same failing players time and time again.
Well you have to accept that is how far we have fallen. We have a range of issues which will preclude us from getting to the top until major changes are made, but those major changes and their impact won't be felt overnight. You have expectations from this squad and club that simply aren't realistic. Do you support Utd cos they were winning everything in sight, or did you support them out of a real love or affinity with the club? Because the latter would make you more understanding of the predicament that Ole is in, and you would recalibrate your expectations accordingly. Teams in transition, especially teams that have a mess of a structure like we have, are not and will not be expected to challenge overnight. The amount of deadwood we have is not going to be shipped out en masse. It'll be done gradually and over a span of 2-3 seasons. With Smalling and Jones probably being the last to be moved on, simply because of their age and nationality.

Not giving youngsters a chance is Jose saying most of these kids won't be with me when the World Cup players return. Not giving kids a chance is also what Jose did when we were 1-0 down at home to Juve and not even putting Chong on the pitch even though our attack had no one else. Ole has instead given debuts to Greenwood, Garner and Chong and meaningful minutes to three of them. He also put two of them on the pitch when we were chasing a win v PSG. He could easily have gone the experienced route and put on Rojo and Dalot and just shuffled the formation, which is exactly what Jose would have done in that same position.

He's playing the regular ones who are always playing because the alternatives haven't performed when given the opportunity. Dalot has been inconsistent to say the least, while as bad as Young is, he at least has a quantifiable level at which he normally plays. Lindelof has probably been our POTY, and Smalling is probably his best partner in terms of consistency of performance. Bailly maybe could feel aggrieved at a lack of a chance, but I'm sure he only recently returned from injury only to re-injure himself in his first game back. Herrera and Matic have been injured at numerous points in the last 2 months. Fred has had some encouraging performances interlaced with some poor ones and is still settling in, and Pereira hasn't done enough when given the chance. McTominay is probably the only one you could say hasn't played as much as he'd have liked (but even then it was only one game where you could say that this was the case, which was West Ham - a game we won). While in attack - Lukaku, Lingard, and Martial have been all been various shades of poor and shocking in almost every game that they've played during this run, and Greenwood has often been injured just as he was about to get his chance.

So in this instance, who do you recommend he plays instead of the "same old" players who get their chance? Especially since up until 3:50pm today there was still a chance of us getting Top 4 and we had something to play for? Fergie certainly didn't throw in the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Butt, Giggs, Neville etc in these do-or-die situations. He blooded them in winning and settled teams and in situations where the result wasn't of paramount importance: the League Cup, meaningless European ties because we didn't qualify for the next round, 15 mins here, 30 mins there in PL games that were settled etc. It was after 3 years or so of gradually building up their first team experience in these games that he finally gave them their shot from the start and built the team around them. He almost NEVER threw them on in massively important games, outside of a couple of isolated instances where injuries hit the squad - Macheda v Villa, for example, which coincidentally, is exactly what Ole did vs PSG.
 
1 - Klopp (Liverpool): W15 / D4 / L1 / Goals 50-15 (+35) / Points: 49
2 - Guardiola (Manchester City): W16 / D0 / L3 / Goals 42-12 (+30) / Points: 48
3 - Solskjær (Manchester United): W12 / D4 / L4 / Goals: 36-23 (+13) / Points: 40
4 - Sarri (Chelsea): W10 / D4 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 34
5 - Emery (Arsenal): W10 / D3 / L7 / Goals: 33-27 (+6) / Points: 33
6 - Santo (Wolverhampton): W9 / D5 / L6 / Goals: 28-25 (+3) / Points: 32
7 - Pochettino (Tottenham): W10 / D1 / L9 / Goals: 34-21 (+13) / Points: 31

...and on that list only one person is playing with a team he's had no influence in shaping whatsoever - one he inherited - and don't even get me started on what that table looked like when he took over for Mourinho then you'd also realize that what he inherited was a total mess way closer to the bottom half than the top four. People who are eagerly dismissive of Ole are completely lost of context and also suffering from short-term memory - and a selective one at that.
:lol: All these tables nonsense reminds me of our 2nd season with Jose. We were mostly crap but managed to scrape results. Finished strongly second with 80 points or so but we all knew we must improve A LOT if we want to at least repeat same points next season. It didn't happen and I can bet it won't happen next season. Most of our games even during our legendary run were boring, lucky and could have been easily a different result on the other day. So I am not exactly sure who are "suffering from short-term memory".
 
He should only get £100m to spend if he is to stay here next season and funds from players he sell. If the club is willing to throw away a lot of money, I will be satisfied with them giving me £10m. Ole needs to prove that he can get the best out of the players in our academy and the current team. Looking at what Pochettino has done with so little is remarkable and it should be a platform for Ole to follow.

With the likes of Chong, Greenwood, Garner, Laird, Gomes, McTominay, and Tianzebe, we don’t have lack of quality option to choose from. Not comparing Ole to Sir Alx, but Saf had to deal with much a worse option. I recalled him putting Carrick and Fletcher at cb and we still look like a good team.

Good grief.
 
This table thing remind me on that rawk shit. In that table they are champions nearly every year
 
You’ve made far too many decisions based on sentiment in the last few years. From appointing OGS after a good run (possibly a bounce from sacking the divisive former manager) to signing players based on their status or as a way of outdoing a rival. Hell, we only appointed Di Matteo after he won the CL and FA Cup, even then it wasn’t a sure thing.

First thing you need to do is remove Woodward from making any football decisions, either sack him or move him to a commercial position. Then you need to sack OGS and appoint an established manager with a DOF or create some sort of position to oversee football matters long term.

Once that’s done you can then start to buy players with a coherent plan. No more buying rivals players to show you can, or out bidding teams to show your wealth, or buying superstar players as status symbols. Identify problem areas and buy good players to fill them. Some will fail, but long term you have enough money to handle that.

I always felt like Liverpool made the mistake of thinking they were special, like they had a right to win trophies after so much success, they weren’t and either are you, no club is. What you are is a club with huge resources that shouldn’t be hard to turn around if managed even remotely efficiently.
 
Has anyone seen any player from our team taking the blame and saying Ole is not the problem?

I think Ole has lost the dressing room with some declarations such as “I will be successful here and some players wont be here to witness it”, at the moment ir doesn’t seem like the players support him.

In the first games they talk about how much Ole had improved them and how happy they were. Now maybe they realized how clueless Ole is.
The dressing room is lost, as they have been. Totally missing out, and Ole can't really lose whats not there. I wouldn't expect that dressing room to support any manager walking through the doors, and I'm pretty sure you are spot on. Ole needs to rip out everyone in there who doesn't believe or feel entitled to not take responsibility and be professional, because they don't believe in the choice of manager.

You could have Pep walking in there not standing a chance against the mighty powers of the dressing room. Seriously, 5 months in with this group and the dressing room would blame the best head in modern football after a rough patch of play. Bet it. After all, a lot of these players don't actually have a future here so why would they not make it hell while they can, or possibly contribute to the sacking of the manager to get a second opportunity? It is that type of culture.

The whole pre season and running more screams Moyes. Why do we need to run more to beat Huddersfield?
Huh? Pre season is pretty much standard for every club. They all do it. It has nothing to do with Moyes. It is where foundations are built usually, and managers get to work with the players and implement their philosophy. As for running, it is pretty much standard as well at this level. In professional football at the highest level, you do have to run more than say a pub team does. I think it is important for a Manchester United player to attempt to run as much, if not more than a pub level player. We should aspire to do that, certainly.

Dont tell me we dont have the quality in the squad to win more than 2 of the last 11 games. Every side below the top 6 in the premier league will change their entire squad for ours without flinching, we should be taking Huddersfield for a walk.
Our players did a lot of walking alright, just forgot to take the dog. You did see the game right? How can a manager account for a performance like that from Shaw? He is just one player too, but what do you do when your only option for the left back is a guy who has been one of our best performers this season and yet he still has performances and mistakes like that in his locker, so you just never know. Is he going to drop half of his team and best players like Mourinho? We don't have the option to do that with our squad. We don't have enough quality in our squad, not in our team. If you think we do you are allowed to blame Ole all you want, but these players aren't going to win the league.
 
The dressing room is lost, as they have been. Totally missing out, and Ole can't really lose whats not there. I wouldn't expect that dressing room to support any manager walking through the doors, and I'm pretty sure you are spot on. Ole needs to rip out everyone in there who doesn't believe or feel entitled to not take responsibility and be professional, because they don't believe in the choice of manager.

You could have Pep walking in there not standing a chance against the mighty powers of the dressing room. Seriously, 5 months in with this group and the dressing room would blame the best head in modern football after a rough patch of play. Bet it. After all, a lot of these players don't actually have a future here so why would they not make it hell while they can, or possibly contribute to the sacking of the manager to get a second opportunity? It is that type of culture.

Huh? Pre season is pretty much standard for every club. They all do it. It has nothing to do with Moyes. It is where foundations are built usually, and managers get to work with the players and implement their philosophy. As for running, it is pretty much standard as well at this level. In professional football at the highest level, you do have to run more than say a pub team does. I think it is important for a Manchester United player to attempt to run as much, if not more than a pub level player. We should aspire to do that, certainly.

Our players did a lot of walking alright, just forgot to take the dog. You did see the game right? How can a manager account for a performance like that from Shaw? He is just one player too, but what do you do when your only option for the left back is a guy who has been one of our best performers this season and yet he still has performances and mistakes like that in his locker, so you just never know. Is he going to drop half of his team and best players like Mourinho? We don't have the option to do that with our squad. We don't have enough quality in our squad, not in our team. If you think we do you are allowed to blame Ole all you want, but these players aren't going to win the league.

Yes running is important. Man City were unfit in their first season under Pep, but we still saw what type of football he wanted to play. What’s Ole shown so far? I’ve yet to see anything.
 
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By your logic Pep or Zidane shouldn’t have been given jobs at Barca and Madrid, cause they certainly didn’t have any managerial pedigree when they were first appointed.

And apart from Pep and maybe Klopp, both of whom are unavailable, none of the others you mentioned are really revolutionising the game. Football tactics and formations run in circles. Rather than following what others have perfected, maybe we need to go back to what we perfected and try and counter the ‘in’ way of playing. Bayern did that successfully between 2014-16 and I see no reason why we can’t succeed in the same way.

By OP's logic you have to get rid, if the manager you took a chance on does not perform.
 
Yes running is important. Man City were unfit in their first season under Pep, but we still saw what type of football he wanted to play. What’s Ole shown so far? I’ve yet to see anything.
Maybe because he hasn't had his first season yet..
 
Maybe because he hasn't had his first season yet..

So you telling me he couldn’t show us anything in the past 6 months? So what was the point of hiring him?

Worst thing is we been getting worse rather than better every game.

Also whoever came up with Ole at the wheel needs their teeth kicked in. Probably same idiot who came up with Moyes is the chosen one.
 
Yes running is important. Man City were unfit in their first season under Pep, but we still saw what type of football he wanted to play. What’s Ole shown so far? I’ve yet to see anything.
I do not pretend to know anything about Ole style of play. He is an unknown entity and we know this. It is not like with Klopp where you can point to many seasons with Dortmund and talk about if the gegenpress is tiring players out towards the end of the season etc. We have nothing to discuss so far. Firstly because he has had just about short of 5 months to salvage a season with players groomed for a certain style of play, along with highly questionable attitudes in the dressing room. It is hard to expect big changes with those circumstances. The only thing you'd hope for originally was a more attacking style of play where our attackers where allowed to express themselves and make more runs offensively. We were at a point where that was the acceptable standard until the summer.

Ole's initial period brought about this change, and you could say he got lucky with the results but the attacking intent, pressing, creativity and counter-attacking that got him the job is at least something that can be discussed. I also do think we looked more defensively solid in that period too. That may be the players just finally doing what they learned with Mourinho to a higher level soon as they found a reason to work a bit harder.. who knows. It may have been Ole organising his players well and it worked because they applied themselves and got the freedom to express themselves offensively. Who knows, it is hard to judge because I don't trust our players to follow any instructions wholeheartedly. They have had a lot of chances, while Ole really only has had a half chance. He has tried to play attacking football and the foundation is there, but how much of that tactic is bulletproof I don't know. I do think you need certain players even if you have a system, or the system becomes redundant anyways. If he wants us to press etc. and have a system but the players couldn't adapt, then probably Ole had to adapt instead. We just don't know.
 
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