Summing it up perfectly
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Summing it up perfectly
I'm not implying that and I hope you're not claiming that we've been dire in every game since 2019. Because neither are true and both are hyperbole. Truth is we're a very streaky team. When we clicked at points last season, and the season before we did play some very good football and blew some teams away. And yes he got top 4 twice. It looks like not that good of a job in hindsight but remember that we hadn't had back to back top 4 finishes since Fergie. So really he did bring us up a level from Jose. Both in terms of performances (we scored a lot more goals for one) and in terms of approach against the top teams. I basically hardly ever see a back 6 which was the norm in Mourinho days. He didn't have significantly better players than his predecessors until this year. And we'll see where we end up.
Good post. This is spot on for me too. Hopefully it’s a big win for us. We badly need to tighten and toughen up but that should come with fitness and familiarly. Win ugly until it clicks. It seems like a resilient and likeable group at least.
Funny you say that because all of my mates (who support other PL clubs) love the fact that Ole's still managing this club and I'm the only one who doesn't want him here.
Our approach against the big teams last season was generally uber cautious particularly in the away fixtures
They're not singing it with the same gusto they were in the first season or two. I guess it depends where you sit, if you're in the Stretford you're always going to feel like the whole stadium is rocking. I've only managed to get to two home games so far this year but I'll be at another 13 or so, but definitely where I'm sitting I'm sensing a lot of frustration.
The way other teams pass by our players. It always seem that they have more players on the pitch. We do not seem to keep possession when it is crucial. The other teams just pass thru our midfield and defence while we struggle to pass thru them. We try to put in crosses than get blocked or headed out. Our players do not know how to play as a team. When you have players like we have and play against lesser players eventually skill will win games. Thats is not to say that we have the tactics and structure to beat most teams. Ole could have got Pogba to drop into midfield to stop their play in midfield when in the first half when they over ran us. They should have scored 3 goals in the first half and we were lucky to be 0-0 at half time. They were unlucky to concede the Ronaldo goal and we were lucky to be saved by the arse of Telles.
Would you say that PSG was uber cautious last night playing on the counter at home against City with 3 defensive-first CMs or playing a big team sensibly that gave your team a chance to get a result.
United played sensibly against big teams last season and faired pretty well. I don't fault how teams setup to succeed, that's on them and could careless if they play 6 at the back. If they're in it and give themselves a chance to get a result, then fair play.
I'd say we've been dire in 8/10 games on average since he started with us. We have some exciting moments, again due to the quality of our players, but we don't have exciting games. There's a difference between a game with a few exciting moments and an exciting game. Our record against the big teams was horrific last season because they had Ole figured out all ends up. We had a good record against the big teams in his first season because we parked the bus, countered and got the rub of the green but that's not sustainable as we've seen over this last 18 months. Saying he didn't have significantly better players hardly bares discussing because of how grossly untrue that statement is. Mourinho literally threw his toys out of the pram because the club wouldn't spend the reported £60m on Maguire, they then sack him & after Maguire has another stellar season they spend £85m on him for Ole. Bruno has carried us in so so many games under Ole & he wasn't a player that we had with Mourinho. AWB was a £50m fullback to replace Darmian/Ashley Young. It was so well documented that Mourinho & LVG weren't given the players they thought they needed in order to succeed.
Exactly. True.
We did?
We accumulated the least amount of points from the top 4 in H2H encounters I think.
True. But it was still more about getting into a slightly lower block and not something like making the forwards follow the opposition FB all the way back making Rashford defend in the LB position like under Mourinho. And when we broke and had our moments in those games we looked threatening and looked like could string passes together. That seems to be missing this season.
I have no problem with that. That should be the way too. It is the dire football that we play under him most of the time that is the issue. It is the prudent way to defend against City or Liverpool and then hit on the counter and score. But then we also play terrible football against lesser teams who do not have half the players we have. When we have players like Ronaldo, Pogba, Cavani, Varane, Bruno, Shaw, Maguire and DeGea then we should be outplaying most teams we face. Lindelof, AWB and Sancho would get into most teams too.
What a stupid, stupid comparison. PSG play those players because they need to compensate for how little defensive work they get from that front line. Hakimi is more of a RW than a RB, he makes Dani Alves look defensive. Verratti is brilliant at defending but he's also an exceptional creative force & Ander Herrera bombs forward non-stop. Let's also ask ourselves who it was that found themselves inside the City 18 yard box to score the opener? Oh yeah, Idrissa Gueye, the CDM.
How about we see how the season progresses, 9 games played in 3 competitions - the impatience on some of the online fans is mad. It's not just Ole either, according to Redcafe Sancho is shit now too. Laughable.
We didn't score more goals. In Jose's first season we had a +25 goal difference. In his second +40. In Ole's first season we finished with +11, but I'll give him a pass because he inherited from Jose. In his second season he got +30, less than Jose's second. On points it was also much less. People also seem to forget that Jose had a MUCH, much worse team.
We had Blind, Baily, Phil Jones and fecking Rojo at the back. Shaw was perpetually injured. We had Young and Valencia as fullbacks. We had old man Matic in midfield with Mata. We had Lingard, Martial and Lukaku in attack. The only people left from that team are Pogba, Rashford and De Gea (as starters). I'd willing to bet my house that if Jose had our team from last season he would have won the title.
You're telling Pogba to drop into a midfield two along side McTominay and be a competent, reliable player defending the middle of the park? That's not going to happen and is a reason why the side is unbalanced in the middle no matter who plays there. McFred have been the most functional duo, even if they are the least talent. This year, they haven't hit any form individually or collectively. It's still a work in progress.
United are usually outnumbered in central midfield because there's only two of them in there, when most teams will have 3 central midfielders..or in Chelsea's case, they have 3 CBs and can play 2 CMs. Teams let United's CBs have the ball, as the CF or other forward players are marking out the 2 CMs and funnel the play to wide areas. Pogba drops deep to collect, same with Matic.
United are one player light in central midfield as they really need to consider going with 3 CMs who play closer together on and off the ball. And their spacing on the ball and off the ball, which develops their shape, has been too soft for the most part this season. At times, they are compact and are better, but not enough.
This myth that we do well against the top teams won't die. We did well in Ole's first season because we parked the bus, countered well and were clinical with our 1 or 2 chances per game & got the rub of the green. Ever since then everyone has claimed we're amazing vs the top teams despite being utter crap against them ever since & having an awful record against them last season.
I do not know if he would win the title but he wanted Maguire and they refused to buy him.
You're right, we've only played 9 games. Sorry, I must have been in some dream-like state where I had convinced myself that Ole had been in charge for nearly 3 years. Silly me.
PSG still played with 3 defensive minded players and played on the counter. That's fine to admit because it's the truth. Just because you're defensive minded doesn't mean you can't go forward. They had the legs and workrate and that's what happens. Verratti is class yes. The point is, PSG played sensibly in their approach to counter City's approach. It worked.
Thats a very unfair reading of what happened. Regarding Van Gaal his problem was he set stupid demands about players like Muller, Lewandowski, etc while vetoing players like Kroos because of a personal vendetta. Jose was backed extremely well for two years with two 30 million CBs. He was only refused backing after he started picking fights with Pogba, a player he signed, and wanted to sell valuable assets like Martial and Shaw and wanted to replace them with much older players. If you're using that logic, then Ole hardly got anyone he wanted the summer before this one, but he still managed to finish 2nd and didn't throw his toys out of the pram.
I think all our managers have been backed pretty well, the only difference Is what demands they made and were they realistic and in the long term interests of the club.
If he is playing this team then he has to get Pogba to drop deep like tonight. I have always been saying this playing of three up front it not going to work especially when you have Pogba and Bruno playing with Ronaldo, Greenwood up front. Pogba for all his talents has a poor first touch and he cannot defend and does not defend. At least if he drops into midfield he can deny space for the other team and not get into the same space as Bruno.
Fred & Matic never venture into the opposition box. It's a clear tactical instruction. Idrissa did venture into the City box & scored the opener. You might call those 3 defensive mids but that's not how they play(ed).
You'd lose that house.
Also you seem to be confusing goals scored with goal difference.
You can't just be a pylon in the center. He has to engage and track runners...be aware of his defensive positioning relative to his defensive goal and the opponent players.
It's just not an adequate part of his game, unfortunately. He played in the 3 with Juve and a subdued 3 with France. Ole needs to play Pogba or at least rotate him. He subbed him off today and it was the correct decision.
Jose got in a target man in Lukaku whilst we had absolutely nobody capable of whipping in a cross & when he tried to sign a winger to compliment him the board refused to cough up €30m for Perisic despite our desperate need for a winger at the time. Meanwhile, Ole had just signed an expensive wingers in Diallo & Pellistri, had Greenwood, Martial, Rashford & James still at the club with Elanga coming through the youth & yet he was still allowed to spend £73m on another winger that he barely looks like he knows how to use.
Yes, that's how both Gueye and Herrera played last night because they are midfield runners, but still were completely dedicated in their defensive duties when defending near their box and the channels. They have the workrate and legs in transition to stay with the ball going forward and ahead of City's midfielders.
Fred and Matic, or whoever the duo in central midfield are, cannot venture into the opposition box unless they start a passing sequence and move into the box, which is rare. They cannot vacate central midfield as they are responsible for it.
And a 46million midfield player no one knows why he is at the club?
We’ve got 3 new first teamers. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that that’ll improve quite a lot as the season goes on.
Fred? One of the greatest marketing scams of all time by his team. Everyone was chasing him, he was the next big thing in the midfield. Aren't we just the lucky ones..
Not so sure about that. Jose finished with 81 points in his best season compared to City finishing 86 points that season. Bruno alone would have made that difference. Ole now has a world class team stacked in almost every position. There are no excuses.
Seriously? We're talking about a 5 goal difference? Both Ole and Mourinho are extremely negative. Only difference is one achieved far more with much less resources at hand and actually won trophies for the club.
Fred? One of the greatest marketing scams of all time by his team. Everyone was chasing him, he was the next big thing in the midfield. Aren't we just the lucky ones..
Nope. DVB. At least Fred gets to play. DVB never plays. So why did we buy him?
Because we were struggling to do the Sancho deal and Pogba looked to be leaving and DvB was a fairly easy deal to do.
I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not but it feels like the team he picked today was the result of all the criticism, I don't think he'd have picked Scott as a DM and Pogba in CM otherwise
and it made us even worse, because Scott isn't a DM at the best of times - it takes away from his strengths and plays to his weaknesses.
if we keep playing this midfield our season will be a disaster I think
and it made us even worse, because Scott isn't a DM at the best of times - it takes away from his strengths and plays to his weaknesses.
if we keep playing this midfield our season will be a disaster I think
There most likely is. It's about spotting their qualities. Everybody said the same thing before Chelsea hired Tuchel. It's the clubs job to be able to spot big managerial potential just like it is the managers/scouts job to spot that of players.
100% spot on. Apparently people think like these ole out fans have personal vendetta against him. I could not care less if our manager is Rafa Benitez if we won the league. Those ole outers will be happy if Ole can show that he can win with this team.
Agree. Me and my mate of course are happy but Ronaldo and DDG bailed us out tonight. Ole still play the same shit football but with world class players of course he will win games he did not deserve to win like today. We won but no thanks to our manager
Shades of the Brighton game last season.
We won but deserved to lose by about 4 goals.
We won but deserved to lose by about 4 goals.
Bollocks upon bollocks but then again that’s your calling card. The only reason we were even in that position is De Gea, so I suppose if my team wants to fail to turn up for a half of football on a regular basis, there’s no better manager than Ole these days.
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