Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Tbf, he does deserve credit for the subs and the 2nd half in general who was much better, but that does not excuse the absoloute shitshow we put up in the first half and even though we won we cant get away with playing like that.

I know its anecdotal, but at Molde he did very little of the actual coaching himself, which he left to the coaches. Dont know how its done at United though. In either case, bringing in Ramsey seems to have made us better at set pieces, but if Ole wants to keep his job beyond this season he really have to upgrade Phelan et al. because as a team we look much worse than the sum of our parts.
 
Despite the fact that I cheered like mad when Ronaldo scored, I woke up today feeling pretty pissed off at the performance.

We played a football game with a non existent midfield ffs. I don't know how Ole can justify that.

But 'world class' Pogba was in midfield. Surely we should be fine with no Fred and and him there??? Oh wait we looked even worse.

We actually looked better after he came off. Says it all.
 
Gsus Christ, what on earth i am reading here, there is no way some aint trolling, baiting at this point, nobody can be that deluded, if thats the case, its actually scary.
 
I can't believe that there are still fans that defend Ole after performances like these.

It's been 3 years and football isn't any better than when we were playing with Perreira and Lingard and people were arguing that because of players like these. Well now he has Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Sancho and we see the same shit on a stick.

We are going nowhere under Ole. Just because he has an eye for transfers doesn't make him a good coach.

Terrible performance last night, once more.
 
So that's yet another game this season where we have been bailed out after being completely outplayed all game.

I know we have been bad attacking under Ole properly but what I saw yesterday was shocking, the way we pressed was really bad. It felt like they were playing with one extra player in the middle of the park, it was a simple ball into Parejo or Capoue and they were at our defence, it happened I think 10 times between 80-88 minutes when we wanted a goal.

If we want to press from the front then our LB, RB have to push up higher to win the ball, Pogba and Bruno have to mark those balls into the middle.

It was so bad, our set up is actually getting worse by the game.
 
Again, that stupid argument - "bailed out by individual brilliance".. The players struggled at times to place a simple pass correctly. Ole changed the game with his subs. Matic controlled the midfield and Lingard assisted Ronnie. So essentially, on a day where players struggled and most of the defence players was out and manye players clearly did not have a very good day, he made tactical changes that turned the game. Also add, that individual brilliance is part of everything in football. All good passes, shots, tackles etc are individual brilliance. How can that be an argument. Every team has it and depends on it..

I have faith. This discussion is not new at the beginning of a season. Lets see before christmas. I reckon things look very good by then, if injuries does not become a big problem.
If you can't see that Ole is a bad coach, I don't have anything to argue. Other than the Leeds game, we've been struggling to play well the whole season. It's not a one off.

This team is so much better than what it's showing so far. Looks totally disjointed right now.
 
I don't want to derail the thread, but is there any reason why we don't have threadmarks in here?
 
So that's yet another game this season where we have been bailed out after being completely outplayed all game.

I know we have been bad attacking under Ole properly but what I saw yesterday was shocking, the way we pressed was really bad. It felt like they were playing with one extra player in the middle of the park, it was a simple ball into Parejo or Capoue and they were at our defence, it happened I think 10 times between 80-88 minutes when we wanted a goal.

If we want to press from the front then our LB, RB have to push up higher to win the ball, Pogba and Bruno have to mark those balls into the middle.

It was so bad, our set up is actually getting worse by the game.
What other games were we completely outplayed in?
 
Can't really fault him for yesterday's match. We were missing 3 of our regular 4 back line, and had a new-ish player in there (Varane). The forward line needs to start clicking though.
 
Can't really fault him for yesterday's match. We were missing 3 of our regular 4 back line, and had a new-ish player in there (Varane). The forward line needs to start clicking though.

Our problem yesterday, yet again, wasn't personnel. I do wonder when people will realize that. They played through our midfield time and time again, it was their game plan and they were far better than us tactically. It had nothing to do with Telles (ironically, we wouldn't have won without him) playing instead of Shaw.
 
Posts from Ole's supporters are just hilarious, there is absolutely no way someone can write stuff like this with a straight face :lol: It's quite clear majority of them don't watch our games and just check the scores.

It's borderline Ty from AFTV level of delusion.
 
Our problem yesterday, yet again, wasn't personnel. I do wonder when people will realize that. They played through our midfield time and time again, it was their game plan and they were far better than us tactically. It had nothing to do with Telles (ironically, we wouldn't have won without him) playing instead of Shaw.
And if we would have got tight in the middle they would have exposed the flanks, where we were arguably weaker at fullback positions last night than through the middle. I think people forget that the opposition have the right to try and exploit our weaknesses, we're not entitled to a win because we're Manchester United.

This was my gripe with the West Ham cup game, it should have been a chance for these players to play together and get to know each other better, not 11 randomers that won't play again this season unless we're bereft.
 
The Ole in crowd will cherish the result and the Ole out crowd will tear down the performance.

Nothing to see here

I'm certainly cherishing the win and I'm also cherishing the thought of a quality manager replacing our very average one.

Unfortunately for me I can't see him going anywhere though and unfortunately for all of us I can't see us winning anything under him.
 
Again it can be explained very easily because we have a stacked squad, which despite the criticism actually do give a feck and have tons of quality. That adrenaline and inspiration can be seen at the start of games (as explained above) and obviously when we are a goal down because the natural urgency is to chase the game and raise the tempo; it's just competitive spirit and I guess human psychology.

The issue is that without clear coaching and tactics, that energy and quality can only shine in bursts or rather it's being channelled in the wrong methods/areas e.g Bruno pressing high like a mad man and trying high risk passes is good effort but poor implentation as it's not in line with the rest of the team.

Why is it surprising, that these players can find a second wind after playing poorly for a while in one 90min game? No one is questioning the quality, technique and talent of your Pogbas, Brunos, Greenwoods etc. They're questioning why they can't sustain or showcase their talents consistently. That's entirely down on the manager.

Again, I think that is a little bit simplistic. There are certain things that we do that we just do better after scoring.

For example, during the first half Bruno and Sancho seemed to be having an ongoing dialogue about what to do when the Villareal defence was in possession. The dialogue did not seem to be particularly fruitful either. However, after we scored the dialogue stopped and Sancho (as well as the rest of the front four) started pressing a lot harder.

You see these things every game. There are things United do in every match e.g., our fullbacks overlapping the inside forwards. However, they seem to do them a lot better after scoring. Often times United will do crossing drills pregame. Someone does a lay off to someone who switches it wide, to someone who puts in the box. Then the game starts and its like that idea has been forgotten...

...until a goal goes in. Then it becomes: 'Oh wait. Yes, we can do that!'

Nobody is saying Solskaer is Lobanvoski incarnate. However, the coaching staff clearly does want the team to do certain things. Yet the team is hamstrung by a jitteriness that its hard to explain. Honestly, it was a bit weird hearing Cristiano talk about how the team was nervous going into the match in his postgame interviews. Cristiano always gives off an aura of invincibility. Yet last night (and after the Newcastle game in fact) he spoke about his own nerves and that of the team.

Even Bruno's post match interview was slightly confusing. In so far as he mentioned that the team is aware that with Cristiano and Cavani they have forwards who will feed off any service they put into the box. So why wait until Telles scores to really try to deliver that service into the box?

I don't think its a question of not knowing the kinds of things they should do. There are enough agents buzzing about United, with disgruntled players, who if they really thought Ole's coaching was that bad it'd be all over the papers. I think its just that there's a mental block with United.

Actually, more than coaching, that is the most concerning element of Ole's management. When we got to the top of the table last season there was a collapse. In the Europa League final we choked. You can list the times where, when its really mattered, the team has got stage fright. A big part of Ole's job must be to help the team prepare, psychologically, to be able to execute when the heat is on.
 
Like I said, all of their chances came from 1v1 situations vs fullbacks. They did have more space to attack.
And whose brilliant mind came up with the idea to not even change despite everyone watching with a pair on their head could see Dalot was getting exposed every attack.
 
Ole needs a top notch assistant. He really shouldn't be stubborn about that. Improve the back room staff with the very best we can get. Managers will never 100% know how to do everything. He needs to reinforce the areas where he's not the strongest imho.

This.

Ole knows man management and squad building, but when it comes to coaching it seems he (and his coaches) are in deep water and then some.

Under Fergie it was very noticable when we had Maulensteen and Quieroz and if Ole wants to keep his post he needs that kind of quality around him. The defensive shape we had in the 1st half yesterday is one of the most ridicolous things i've seen on a football pitch. Flat 451 where Villareal could basically just stroll past us
 
It looked like a cross of 4-3-3/4-1-4-1.

I think Pogba's role must have been tactical. We had the same midfield in the EL final against the same team but their overall positions were very different that night.
In any case, it clearly didn't work. McT was too isolated and it made too easy for Villareal to skip the midfield entirely.
 
Should split his salary into 2 parts and give them to Ronaldo and DDG
 
Wolves, Villa, Southampton.

EDIT - Even West Ham

Southampton?

They literally had 1 big chance in the entire game - the 1v1.

People seem to be forgetting the 1st half where maguire and martial missed from 6 yards, Pogba missed a free header from 10 yards. If anything, we'd have been 2-0 up by HT
 
It looked like a cross of 4-3-3/4-1-4-1.

I think Pogba's role must have been tactical. We had the same midfield in the EL final against the same team but their overall positions were very different that night.

It was a 4-3-3. Ole mentioned it in his postgame interview with MUTV that he set up with two #8s: Pogba and Bruno.

Think we can all agree it was a bit of a mess.
 
Yeah so has Fred, McTominay and Matic, what the hell is DVB supposed to prove when he gets 5 minutes every now and again, how can you genuinely prove anything with no game time under your belt. And if its the case as you say, again, why not sell him? We had offers.
Exactly. When he first came in and played, he looked good. A touch above all the others. Passing and moving. So, what do we do? Sit him behind dross. Eat away his confidence. Then give him 20 minutes here and there playing out of position. Or lash him in with the reserves.
 
It's gas, after 2 games of this season, it was so clear that Ole just isn't learning what he needs to do to get us to the next level. Many of us said as much, but were told we were knee jerking, despite this being his third full season. The football is just generally insipid. Constantly starting slow. Usually takes either a big scare, or actually going behind before the team starts playing. If we happen to go ahead, we take the foot off the gas.

He has built up a very good team, player wise. But his "tactics", and I really put that in quotes because I just don't know what they are, do not help us. Basically, 95% of our games are tight. Usually, we have slightly more talent than the opposition, so maybe slightly more often than not, we find the winner. But it shouldn't be like that against much of the league. We should be destroying the smaller teams, especially with the amount of money we've spent, the players we have.

But he's a very lucky man in a lot of ways. I predict, what happens now, is what always happens under Ole. We'll go on this random 10 game winning spree just after pressure starts to ramp up on him. We'll convince ourselves again, or some of us will, that he's learned, things are changing ... and then results will normalise again and we'll struggle.

Top 4 the very best we can hope for. I wouldn't be surprised if we go out at the group stages too.

Love ya Ole. Did a very good job to this point, steadying the ship, improving the squad. But just not elite enough to take us to the next level. That's no shame, there aren't exactly loads of managers out there who can. But it's time for him to move on.
 
100%. It didn't even feel like 3 midfielders :lol: Just McT basically

And McTominay was getting dragged all over the place. So at times we were a donut team, with a big hole in the middle.

Possibly not the night to experiment with the team shape. Ronaldo mentioned the team was nervous before the game in his postgame interview (Ronaldo, Mr Mentality himself!) You have to wonder whether trying to put into place a new shape, having lost our first Champions League game and coming off the back of a Premier League loss, may have increased the nerves?
 
Ole gave a very honest interview with a danish channel after the game:

- very poor defending from us
- lost the ball to easily
- need to play with lower pressure at times and better balance
- lucky to win
- played poorly
- and if we continue to play like this we won’t win anything.

He knows better than anyone that we need to improve our play In the coming weeks.

Words have always been good from Ole. He never learns from his mistakes though, and he cannot set up a team tactically. So means nothing.
 
It's gas, after 2 games of this season, it was so clear that Ole just isn't learning what he needs to do to get us to the next level. Many of us said as much, but were told we were knee jerking, despite this being his third full season. The football is just generally insipid. Constantly starting slow. Usually takes either a big scare, or actually going behind before the team starts playing. If we happen to go ahead, we take the foot off the gas.

He has built up a very good team, player wise. But his "tactics", and I really put that in quotes because I just don't know what they are, do not help us. Basically, 95% of our games are tight. Usually, we have slightly more talent than the opposition, so maybe slightly more often than not, we find the winner. But it shouldn't be like that against much of the league. We should be destroying the smaller teams, especially with the amount of money we've spent, the players we have.

But he's a very lucky man in a lot of ways. I predict, what happens now, is what always happens under Ole. We'll go on this random 10 game winning spree just after pressure starts to ramp up on him. We'll convince ourselves again, or some of us will, that he's learned, things are changing ... and then results will normalise again and we'll struggle.

Top 4 the very best we can hope for. I wouldn't be surprised if we go out at the group stages too.

Love ya Ole. Did a very good job to this point, steadying the ship, improving the squad. But just not elite enough to take us to the next level. That's no shame, there aren't exactly loads of managers out there who can. But it's time for him to move on.
good post.
Ole deserved all the credit to improve the team chemistry and quality after Mourinho reign. But it's clear to me now that he doesn't have what it take to take United to the next level. Did a very good job, but at this point United clearly needs another manager.
The hard thing is to find a manager with progressive ideas, but could seamlessly translate what his tactics to the players that Ole have acquired, and keep the same team spirit.
 
Wolves, Villa, Southampton.

EDIT - Even West Ham
we weren’t outplayed by West Ham now and there isn’t a chance Southampton can claim they were the better side.
Where I come down on it is that Oles side seems to take an age to get going but when we do we go on long periods of unbeaten runs and wins. It’s why we get to so many semi finals under him.
Where our season ends up getting defined is either side of that run. Just win the vast majority of these either side games and see where we fall. Or this is it for the season and it’s our standard but I just can’t see it because it already falls perfectly into our pattern under him.
Get Rashford back, we see what Cavani adds and bed Sancho in. That’s the direction that will make it break our season.
 
I wonder how our results look if De Gea suddenly didn't become the best shot-stopping GK again.

I don't know how much longer our performances can continue to be sub-par. Sooner than later, it'll catch up to us.
 
It's all a bit depressing really. Last night was a great result and a last minute winner is always fun, but the performances aren't getting better. I thought there were some promising signs of what the team could become in the first West Ham game, but they haven't developed into anything in the following matches, and in fact the performances have arguably got worse.

With a team full of so many big names now you might expect egos to be getting in the way of the team gelling, but it's clearly not that. One thing Ole is doing well is keeping people playing for each other, at least in spirit, but something just isn't working.

Maybe we can grind a few more results in the league and it will start to click, but I don't think the signs are good. Better to be pessimistic and pleasantly surprised, I think. I'm not getting my hopes up for this season based on what we've seen so far.
 
100%. It didn't even feel like 3 midfielders :lol: Just McT basically
The fact Ole thinks he played a 433 with two 8s is just further testament to his lack of coaching ability. McTominay was supposed to be the 6 and was never screening our back 4, instead he was hiding yet again way too far up the pitch all game, avoiding the play at all costs. Pogba & Bruno were in the #10 position all game, sometimes Bruno even looked like a 9. It was the most pathetic 433 I've ever seen.
 
I wonder how our results look if De Gea suddenly didn't become the best shot-stopping GK again.

I don't know how much longer our performances can continue to be sub-par. Sooner than later, it'll catch up to us.
Agreed. Said it yesterday we really got away with it. Not just because De Gea found his form again but we were also just lucky Villareal missed several big chances. We absolutely didn't play well for most of the match. We only started playing well when Matic and Cavani came on. Which is the 75th minute. The Telles goal came out of nowhere and we could (should?) have been 3-0 down by then. Our luck will run out. We have to improve and if OGS can't do it we should find someone who can. The pressure is on now IMHO.
 
It was a 4-3-3. Ole mentioned it in his postgame interview with MUTV that he set up with two #8s: Pogba and Bruno.

Think we can all agree it was a bit of a mess.

Don't think Bruno occupied the #8 position a single time. So yes a mess describes it best
 
Words have always been good from Ole. He never learns from his mistakes though, and he cannot set up a team tactically. So means nothing.
Yea, Ole doesn't get bonus points for admitting we're shit. It's his job to make sure we're not. I can recognise that I'm not the best chess player on the planet, that doesn't mean I also know how to turn it around and suddenly become the best chess player on the planet.
 
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