Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[RedDevil@84]

One of the best managers available in the world right now isn't enough for some of you as a replacement for Ole. Brilliant.

We brought in a bunch of attackers/wingers to play in a certain way. If we want to change manager, it has to be someone who can take it forward. Conte's philosophy and 3-5-2 seems like too much of a change and would result in another 2-3 years of rebuild and selling of some existing costly players and buying some other kind of players.
Not to forget Conte losing it when the players he wants would not come immediately.

 

[ti vu]

We brought in a bunch of attackers/wingers to play in a certain way. If we want to change manager, it has to be someone who can take it forward. Conte's philosophy and 3-5-2 seems like too much of a change and would result in another 2-3 years of rebuild and selling of some existing costly players and buying some other kind of players.
Not to forget Conte losing it when the players he wants would not come immediately.

While Conte may demand recruitment to build depth, we're just couple of players away from having a functional XI under Conte.

Conte can use 5-2-1-2 and 5-2-2-1. So we're just missing a RWB and a strong defensive midfield. The defenders will share the responsibility to build up from the back so even Pogba can play deeper as CM in Conte's system.

We have 3 CBs that comfortable with the ball, (Conte made David Luiz into one of the best CB in PL for a season) . Shaw should have no problem, and he can also be used as LCB. Telles would be more benefit from switching to LWB. Dalot is similar to Telles, will benefit from playing RWB. Whether he's good enough is another matter. With 3 at back, Matic, McTominay, Fred are less burdened in short term as can work there until we can upgrade on them. 3 positions for attacking position to work out for all these Rashford, Bruno, Sancho, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Martial, Cavani. Some of those are just short term options even under Ole so not a worry in long run.

And long rebuild is bs. Conte is very quick in term of imprinting his style, and coaching players in to his system, even if they're not the most desirable for his system.

 

[el3mel]

We brought in a bunch of attackers/wingers to play in a certain way. If we want to change manager, it has to be someone who can take it forward. Conte's philosophy and 3-5-2 seems like too much of a change and would result in another 2-3 years of rebuild and selling of some existing costly players and buying some other kind of players.
Not to forget Conte losing it when the players he wants would not come immediately.

This is actually a fair point. I can see where you're coming from, though I think our squad is pretty versatile and can adapt to different formations. I don't think Conte will struggle with them. Also, I will actually like it if our manager exerts more pressure on the board for transfers anyway. Don't our fans hate our board for that very particular reason ? This particular point isn't really a problem for me.

It's worth nothing that even when Conte presses the board or shows his discontent with transfers, he never flops when it comes to results. He never let his complaints affect his work or the dressing room. He was complaining non stop about Inter's transfers but they were still a machine under him. He's not like Mourinho in this regard, whom loses any concentration or focus whenever he gets into problem with the board/players, and it starts to affect the team. Conte doesn't let it affect his work on the pitch and training ground.

Anyway, if we opt to play with wings and conquering the flanks, Zidane is also available, and that was his preferred attacking style with Madrid. He used to utilize wings and flanks to create chances rather than going center. He likes 4-4-2 and its derivatives.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Last night was obviously woeful, but jeez, a-bit of calm is needed. If we're in December and consistently playing as bad as that, then yes, serious questions will have to be asked. But right now, it's not the end of the world. Lets hope we pull it together agsinst West Ham on Sunday and put last night behind us.

I totally understand peoples reservations - I have them too - but there has been some utterly woeful takes in here since last night. It doesn't help having wums from both extreme sides goading each other, either.

 

[Ludens the Red]

People suggesting Conte here tells me all I need to know about potential options.

I mean I wouldn’t say Conte would be my number one preferred choice. But to see that kind of dismissal of Conte is something especially when you’re quite pro Ole in general. A very successful league manager with multiple league titles. Like I said he wouldn’t be my number one choice but if the choice was Conte or Ole I would choose Conte 99/100.

 

[Wumminator]

Last night was obviously woeful, but jeez, a-bit of calm is needed. If we're in December and consistently playing as bad as that, then yes, serious questions will have to be asked. But right now, it's not the end of the world. Lets hope we pull it together agsinst West Ham on Sunday and put last night behind us.

I totally understand peoples reservations - I have them too - but there has been some utterly woeful takes in here since last night. It doesn't help having wums from both extreme sides goading each other, either.

Can we stop doing both sides please.
One side is literally “supporting” the team as they are supporters. They accept criticism and try and post constructively.

the other side smear shit on the wall and throw faeces at the other whilst shouting “patterns of play”

 

[mu4c_20le]

I mean I wouldn’t say Conte would be my number one preferred choice. But to see that kind of dismissal of Conte is something especially when you’re quite pro Ole in general. A very successful league manager with multiple league titles. Like I said he wouldn’t be my number one choice but if the choice was Conte or Ole I would choose Conte 99/100.

He's a great coach, but it just highlights the desperation from some fans. He may or may not win a trophy, but he will almost certainly leave behind some baggage.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Can we stop doing both sides please.
One side is literally “supporting” the team as they are supporters. They accept criticism and try and post constructively.

the other side smear shit on the wall and throw faeces at the other whilst shouting “patterns of play”

Nah, unfortunately there are two "extreme sides", whether you want to admit it or not. There's plenty of balanced views and opinions from the less extreme stances; but of course both sides have shit, wummy posters.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

He's a great coach, but it just highlights the desperation from some fans. He may or may not win a trophy, but he will almost certainly leave behind some baggage.

This! The only coach(es) I'd like to see are ones like: Nagelsmann,Rose

 

[pratyush_utd]

It's way too early in the season to make conclusion but early signs don't look good. We had probably 2 half of football where we looked in control till now. Those two half we have scored 7 goals. So definitely we have what it takes but if we can't show it consistently then we will come up short.

Personally if Ole can't win major honours ( or atleast make sure we are close till the last stage of competition), his job should be in danger. This is his team and midfield or anything else can't be the excuse anymore

 

[Wumminator]

Nah, unfortunately there are two "extreme sides", whether you want to admit it or not. There's plenty of balanced views and opinions from the less extreme stances; but of course both sides have shit, wummy posters.

Where are the “wummi/shit” posts from those who want to keep Ole since last night?

 

[Beans]

Anyone brought up him defending our tactics? Maguire said we needed 5 at the back up deal with them and should only have done better on counter attacks.

I’m disappointed that’s good enough for them. I thought I’d start a thread about it but that seemed inadvisable seeing how many Ole threads there are.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Where are the “wummi/shit” posts from those who want to keep Ole since last night?

Are you serious? I've read every page on here since last night and there are plenty of wummy posts looking to goad. I'm not playing that game of naming names, but they're not hard to find. Pretending all the fans who back Ole 100% are saintly, is ridiculous, and you know it. Sure I saw one got a warning attached to their post for adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[Lash]

Where are the “wummi/shit” posts from those who want to keep Ole since last night?

It was more a night for ole out shit posters, but there's a lot of "spoilt brat" type retorts floating around.

 

[Wumminator]

Are you serious? I've read every page on here since last night and there are plenty of wummy posts looking to goad. I'm not playing that game of naming names, but they're not hard to find. Pretending all the fans who back Ole 100% are saintly, is ridiculous, and you know it. Sure I saw one got a warning attached to their post for adding nothing to the discussion.

I am actually being serious yes. Can you check after the final whistle and find some?

 

[Robbie Boy]

It was more a night for ole out shit posters, but there's a lot of "spoilt brat" type retorts floating around.

Yes, exactly. Obviously the OTT screaming about how shit Ole is was worse, but there were quite a few lunatics from the other side shit stirring, and taking valid criticism personally. It all led to the usual OTT hyperbole, but we've been here a million times before.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I am actually being serious yes. Can you check after the final whistle and find some?

As I said, there's plenty of utterly shit posts that add nothing other than shit stirring. I have no idea why you're being deliberate obtuse tbh. Obviously the rabid bile won, but pretending there aren't idiots who support him is mental. I just said one got a warning for his post, it's there to see.

 

[Halftrack]

Patronize harder my good sir, do it more, be more patronizing. I dare you to reach the summit of patronizing by telling this poster they don’t get it, do it, do it now

When he's acting like a complete child, it's only right he gets treated like one.

 

[Wumminator]

As I said, there's plenty of utterly shit posts that add nothing other than shit stirring. I have no idea why you're being deliberate obtuse tbh. Obviously the rabid bile won, but pretending there aren't idiots who support him is mental. I just said one got a warning for his post, it's there to see.

It is quite literally not there for me to see.
I just went back to the posts twenty minutes after the game.

A clueless clown!!!!

Sack him now ffs.

Can't really blame him.

He doesn't do the coaching, the tactics, or the subs.

Where are you Solskjaer fans??? WHERE????

Why can't we have at least a good manager?? (Good manager = Dyche)

Solskjaer is a nothing coach.

Hopefully Ronaldo will talk to Woodward.

Just get Zidane. Im fed up of this pussy in charge. He is way to small for this job.

If Ole had some integrity, he'd start thinking of resigning here. Underperforming, weak mentality laden coach

I really hate him.

Moyes and Van Gaal have showed at other clubs that they are good coaches.

But this guy showed nothing.

I could cry.

Can you find any posts in the same time that are that bad?

 

[Robbie Boy]

It is quite literally not there for me to see.
I just went back to the posts twenty minutes after the game.









Can you find any posts in the same time that are that bad?

I never said as bad. You're taking this totally out of context for some bizarre reason. Here's my original post:

Last night was obviously woeful, but jeez, a-bit of calm is needed. If we're in December and consistently playing as bad as that, then yes, serious questions will have to be asked. But right now, it's not the end of the world. Lets hope we pull it together agsinst West Ham on Sunday and put last night behind us.

I totally understand peoples reservations - I have them too - but there has been some utterly woeful takes in here since last night. It doesn't help having wums from both extreme sides goading each other, either.

I stand by it too. There were posts from the usual suspects who claim to support Ole, only looking to stir shit. I never said the majority, or anything like it.

 

[Wumminator]

@Robbie Boy I’m not quoting you because you slightly messed up that post .

But my problem is that when you come in here saying “both sides have wums” and there’s “plenty” from both side people start to draw an inference that both sides are posting equal shite. I just want to point that out.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Ole will always play it safe, people have to accept that by now. I expect us to not lose any further matches in CL qualifying. Atlanta, Villarreal and Young Boys suck, we will easily get through.

 

[Kush]

One of the best managers available in the world right now isn't enough for some of you as a replacement for Ole. Brilliant.

I have been of the opinion for 2 years now Ole isn't right for this job but I would genuinely keep him over someone like Conte. I know his league record is exemplary but his management is very demanding, there are certain personalities in this squad who simply won't mesh. Someone shared an excerpt about Ronaldo falling out with Benitez, Sarri etc. and I don't see it long before Conte clashes with him. He likes his shithouse CF and Ronaldo isn't one. Not to mention, he leaves behind a huge wreck just like Mourinho after 1 or 2 years. Most of top coaches are already snapped up, for those available, Zidane would be the best bet. Knows how to win and has worked with winners in Varane and Ronaldo before.

But, all this discussion is pointless because we never ever sack our managers as long as they are finishing in CL places. I don't see Ole doing a bad enough job to be out of those places, so I see him being here for a very long time as long as he keeps delivering CL football like Wenger used to half a decade ago. Our Glazers and board only care about the CL money, they don't care about winning trophies.

 

[Robbie Boy]

@Robbie Boy I’m not quoting you because you slightly messed up that post .

But my problem is that when you come in here saying “both sides have wums” and there’s “plenty” from both side people start to draw an inference that both sides are posting equal shite. I just want to point that out.

Aye, I've fixed that ffs

My original post didnt insinuate that though. The main premise of it was the OTT reactions were ridiculous (Ole out stuff).

I then closed out by saying that there was goading and wumming going on from both sides. I agree obviously the OTT reactions were ridiculous, but there were certainly some 'in' posters blatantly posting horse shite.

There's plenty of 'in' posters who I enjoy conversing with and make great points, but there's an element who aren't pleasant to engage with and either wum or become overly defensive. Conversely, there's plenty of posters with doubts who have extremely valid points, and can articulate them in a constructive manner. I tend to ignore the OTT nonsense as it's not worth engaging with. Any rational posts obviously got lost in the mire last night, and I chose to stay away until today.

 

[captaincantona]

When we win games, especially tight games, we do so more often than not through individual brilliance...not through a style of play or recognisable patterns of attack.

And last night, the defending seemed to be another sort of Hail Mary approach. Stick on Varane...he is a good defender...Stick on Jesse...he can run more than Ronaldo...put on Dalot...he is a right back...then...in the same way the team has this vague game plan for attacking, the team seem to have been just told to go defend! Bar the three centre halves, the rest was a free for all of headless chicken pressing in our own half and full backs who didn’t know who to be tracking. It was a mess.

You have to question how McKenna, Carrick and Solksjaer, 3 completely inexperienced coaches, found themselves in control of an elite club. as the game is just getting more and more technical, with analysts playing central roles at clubs and specific coaches for every part of the game...cant help but feel like our old school approach - the Utd way...pass forward...run forward ...is just not gonna cut it.

Fergie kneW he needed something different when he brought in Quiroz. If he is humble enough to know when things need to change...surely Ole can do the same. Trouble is, Ole seems to think the sun shines out of Carrick and McKenna so it doesn’t look like we will be seeing a better coached team anytime soon. Utd no longer have the squad to excuse those type of results. We should have battered that lot even with 10 men.

 

[Wumminator]

Aye, I've fixed that ffs

My original post didnt insinuate that though. The main premise of it was the OTT reactions were ridiculous (Ole out stuff).

I then closed out by saying that there was goading and wumming going on from both sides. I agree obviously the OTT reactions were ridiculous, but there were certainly some 'in' posters blatantly posting horse shite.

There's plenty of 'in' posters who I enjoy conversing with and make great points, but there's an element who aren't pleasant to engage with and either wum or become overly defensive. Conversely, there's plenty of posters with doubts who have extremely valid points, and can articulate them in a constructive manner. I tend to ignore the OTT nonsense as it's not worth engaging with. Any rational posts obviously got lost in the mire last night, and I chose to stay away until today.

Fair enough! Sounds like we’re on the same page.

 

[NewYorkRed]

Listen- here’s the reality of it. I’m neither Ole in nor Ole out. I do think he’s not a good enough manager, that much is certain. However sacking him after one CL loss with 10 men is nuts. But. We have been poor in literally all of our games except the Leeds game this year. Newcastle result flattered us, they could have easily won that game. So thats very concerning.

Also, time and time again, he, for all the talk that he talks about the ManUtd way, has negative substitutions or extremely negative tactics when facing top teams or when defending a lead. If we’re up 1-0 with 30 mins to go, we defend instead of going for the second. Setting up this team to play on the break against pool or city also does not require rocket science.

We also have 0 style of playing/identity. Its all individual brilliance; something Jose got so much stick for (rightfully so of course). Jose would have a much, much better chance of winning with this squad if we’re just gonna tell the players to go out, defend, and work their magic 1v1 in the final third.

I don’t want him out yet, but we can’t let him waste this squad. He’s given us more proof that he’s not good enough instead of vice versa.

I hope he turns it around.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

100% behind Ole and I absolutely love him as our manager

But he has to qualify from this CL group.

I still wouldn’t want him sacked then, but he wouldn’t be able to complain.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What's wrong with him?

He would park the car on Fergie's spot

 

[Andycoleno9]

100% behind Ole and I absolutely love him as our manager

But he has to qualify from this CL group.

I still wouldn’t want him sacked then, but he wouldn’t be able to complain.

Even then you wouldn't want him sacked?

 

[Teja]

Ole will always play it safe, people have to accept that by now. I expect us to not lose any further matches in CL qualifying. Atlanta, Villarreal and Young Boys suck, we will easily get through.

+1 I think we'll finish at least 2nd in the group despite what happened yesterday - not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. I'd be more pissed with a loss like this in the league than the first game in the CL group stage.

He's going nowhere until the end of the season at the very least - he has bought himself that much time with what he's achieved so far.

 

[el3mel]

I have been of the opinion for 2 years now Ole isn't right for this job but I would genuinely keep him over someone like Conte. I know his league record is exemplary but his management is very demanding, there are certain personalities in this squad who simply won't mesh. Someone shared an excerpt about Ronaldo falling out with Benitez, Sarri etc. and I don't see it long before Conte clashes with him. He likes his shithouse CF and Ronaldo isn't one. Not to mention, he leaves behind a huge wreck just like Mourinho after 1 or 2 years. Most of top coaches are already snapped up, for those available, Zidane would be the best bet. Knows how to win and has worked with winners in Varane and Ronaldo before.

But, all this discussion is pointless because we never ever sack our managers as long as they are finishing in CL places. I don't see Ole doing a bad enough job to be out of those places, so I see him being here for a very long time as long as he keeps delivering CL football like Wenger used to half a decade ago. Our Glazers and board only care about the CL money, they don't care about winning trophies.

This is an absolute bullocks and not based on anything.

 

[LJJT]

When we win games, especially tight games, we do so more often than not through individual brilliance...not through a style of play or recognisable patterns of attack.

And last night, the defending seemed to be another sort of Hail Mary approach. Stick on Varane...he is a good defender...Stick on Jesse...he can run more than Ronaldo...put on Dalot...he is a right back...then...in the same way the team has this vague game plan for attacking, the team seem to have been just told to go defend! Bar the three centre halves, the rest was a free for all of headless chicken pressing in our own half and full backs who didn’t know who to be tracking. It was a mess.

You have to question how McKenna, Carrick and Solksjaer, 3 completely inexperienced coaches, found themselves in control of an elite club. as the game is just getting more and more technical, with analysts playing central roles at clubs and specific coaches for every part of the game...cant help but feel like our old school approach - the Utd way...pass forward...run forward ...is just not gonna cut it.

Fergie kneW he needed something different when he brought in Quiroz. If he is humble enough to know when things need to change...surely Ole can do the same. Trouble is, Ole seems to think the sun shines out of Carrick and McKenna so it doesn’t look like we will be seeing a better coached team anytime soon. Utd no longer have the squad to excuse those type of results. We should have battered that lot even with 10 men.
[/QUOTE
Think your totally disregarding Mike Phelan here who is a key member of the coaching staff. Fergies right hand man. Done it all seen it all won it all. As others have said- we win with individual brilliance let lose and it’s oles fault despite obvious individual errors

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Can you find any posts in the same time that are that bad?

Oh look another gatekeeper of what it means to support the club.

 

[Wumminator]

Oh look another gatekeeper of what it means to support the club.

Yes. I am here. I can help you to be a better supporter if you want.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Yes. I am here. I can help you to be a better supporter if you want.

You're just an example of being a condescending gatekeeper mate, nothing more.

 

[captaincantona]

Can’t quote you LJJT but...

If you think Mick Phelan does any football coaching of note...Like the technical Set up , phases of play, opposition analysis, attacking patterns...you my friend are on something! He is there to guide Ole on how to manage the behemoth that is Man Utd. He ain’t leading training sessions.

 

[Tom Cato]

One of the best managers available in the world right now isn't enough for some of you as a replacement for Ole. Brilliant.

Conte is a 2-3 season manager. After that he's worn everyone down and people want him gone. If you want that, that's fine. I prefer managers that could stay for decades. If not Ole, then someone else with a likeable personality.

 

[Mickeza]

I don’t see many WUM posts in here from Ole “fans” whatever the feck that means - a WUM post would be something like:

Have to say @Amadaeus the way Pochetino managed to restrict Brugge to just the 4/5 really good chances tonight has been very impressive. Also a big fan of the patterns he used to beat the press Brugge used for the first 70 minutes - I mean they kept losing the ball in their own half and couldn’t get the ball between the lines into Messi but the patterns were there for all to see. What I liked most was how the first goal and their only real chance was a fantastic pattern where Mbappe skinned two defenders and laid it on a plate for Herrera - no individual stuff on display at all. Well done Poch.

Wonder what the score would have been had they gone down to 10 men in the first half. Unfortunately we’ll never know.

 

[McTerminator]

Young Boys 2-1 Manchester United: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's tactical decisions under scrutiny following defeat | Football News | Sky Sports

Very good article imo.