Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[edcunited1878]

It's not about him needing a better coaching staff. He needs to understand much better what he wants and how he wants to go about achieving that. You can say it's poor form to say this, but against more defensive sides it will take more than "go on and enjoy yourselves." Honestly, that's what it looks like. Trust the players. There is no identity being created here.

He's already made some detrimental changes in the first three games that he was under no pressure to do. Moving Greenwood from centre forward to wide right, to play Martial against Southampton. And now removing Pogba from the wide left position where he really has excelled to drop him into a two man midfield alongside Fred which was the root of all our problems today. If he doesn't trust Donny, he should be selling him and reinvesting immediately. And he'll need to develop our buildup play as talk of trophies and a serious title challenge is moot before he addresses this elephant in the room.

Without the level of midfielders we require, I imagine the training sessions (matches) never give a good indication as to what we will come up against in the league. If it's not a technically superior midfield (which most times it is), it is one where we are outnumbered and/or outfought.

The weight of expectation now will rightly be huge and is already being framed thus in the press, given our stellar signings. If he doesn't go all out to ensure he can have a midfielder he can trust or figure out a competent tactical plan, it will be his downfall.

Ole values quick transitions and vertical movements. United under him don't play a possession game where they manipulate space and move as a unit around the pitch with player movement creating space and attacking the space with either players or the ball.

Southampton played with 3 at the back in the second half and were lucky to get a point, even if United were very sloppy on the ball and got caught out (Maguire). Today, Wolves played a 523/532 and just ran straight through the middle because, the middle is a numerical disadvantage, which lends the wide areas for United to exploit usually with Shaw.

It's a complex situation because United don't have a central midfield player who can pass and retain midfield control/shape. And against teams who have 3 CBs, a lower block, or press all over the pitch, the players have to be able to connect much better and be closer together...which is aided by technical players. We saw the link up with Shaw and Martial towards the end of the match. Need that type of movement, touch, and awareness all over the pitch.

 

[NZT-One]

For the first part, I've said this earlier on other relevant threads, but Fred as lone DM is a disaster waiting to happen. And I really believe Ole got that bit wrong today. He commits way too early and if you overlap his weaknesses with the skills required for someone to be a good lone DM, they'd overlap quite significantly.

Ok got it. I thought, it was Fred and Pogba playing in a double-pivot, interesting to hear you've seen as a single-pivot. I agree with you, Fred isn't well suited for that role without more changes made to the squad. Would you say, Ole could have adjusted the team? I mean, why didn't he for example set us up in more of a deep block, countering Wolves, it would've taken the steam out of their aggressiveness and it would have made us more compact. Or why didn't he instruct Bruno or Shaw to support the midfield more?

The community isn't trained for the old 3 point bit. We're just biased with our opinions, and want to vent some random frustrations. The thing is half the criticism Ole gets here, if the same things were done by other managers, we'd give them a longer leash. For example, had City or Klopp won like this today, we'd be talking about champions' mentality, and how they manage to get 3 points despite being the 2nd best side. We'd be talking about some variables that can't be quantified and all. But because it's Ole, we need to go for the more basic approach. Look, I'm not saying I'm unbiased or Ole is as good as those two (atleast not currently) and what I say is always right, but while assessing something, atleast keep the parameters consistent for all managers after applying context

I know what you mean. But to be honest, I don't think, that the evaluations are really that unfair as you describe them. I mean, yes there are a few people just waiting for opportunities to attack the manager. And they sometimes use arguements that are pretty far fetched. But I personally think, that the majority is really trying to be somehow fair. And I am sure, even if you don't agree with it, a standpoint like "we should be expecting more after 3 years and investments like that" isn't totally outlandish at all. And the individuals who feel the necessity to advice people who voice their criticism to support Manchester City have exactly the same effect as the most vocal ole critics (mentioned at the start of the paragraph).

 

[Bastian]

Ole values quick transitions and vertical movements. United under him don't play a possession game where they manipulate space and move as a unit around the pitch with player movement creating space and attacking the space with either players or the ball.

Southampton played with 3 at the back in the second half and were lucky to get a point, even if United were very sloppy on the ball and got caught out (Maguire). Today, Wolves played a 523/532 and just ran straight through the middle because, the middle is a numerical disadvantage, which lends the wide areas for United to exploit usually with Shaw.

It's a complex situation because United don't have a central midfield player who can pass and retain midfield control/shape. And against teams who have 3 CBs, a lower block, or press all over the pitch, the players have to be able to connect much better and be closer together...which is aided by technical players. We saw the link up with Shaw and Martial towards the end of the match. Need that type of movement, touch, and awareness all over the pitch.

There has never been a team so poor in midfield that has won any serious trophy. I would say your reading of it is as favourable a tactical defense of Ole as is possible, but to me it just seems he lacks parts of the fundamentals.

 

[E-mal]

We won every game under SAF in style. There where never games where we struggled and got away with it.

SAF will struggle to win this current league if his team plays like this. The room for error is quite marginal in the Epl now. So many teams competing for the title with good quality and very sound managers.
We looked far behind our rivals tactically and even most decent mid table teams.
What we have is individual brilliance.

 

[The United]

Ole can not rely on Pogba as our main passer from deep for a couple of reasons obviously.

He needs someone like Carrick whose long passes will open up between channels quickly from all the way back.

Amusing thing is though Carrick is there coaching and I can't believe they don't try to solve that issue.

 

[NZT-One]

It's not about him needing a better coaching staff. He needs to understand much better what he wants and how he wants to go about achieving that. You can say it's poor form to say this, but against more defensive sides it will take more than "go on and enjoy yourselves." Honestly, that's what it looks like. Trust the players. There is no identity being created here.

He's already made some detrimental changes in the first three games that he was under no pressure to do. Moving Greenwood from centre forward to wide right, to play Martial against Southampton. And now removing Pogba from the wide left position where he really has excelled to drop him into a two man midfield alongside Fred which was the root of all our problems today. If he doesn't trust Donny, he should be selling him and reinvesting immediately. And he'll need to develop our buildup play as talk of trophies and a serious title challenge is moot before he addresses this elephant in the room.

Without the level of midfielders we require, I imagine the training sessions (matches) never give a good indication as to what we will come up against in the league. If it's not a technically superior midfield (which most times it is), it is one where we are outnumbered and/or outfought.

The weight of expectation now will rightly be huge and is already being framed thus in the press, given our stellar signings. If he doesn't go all out to ensure he can have a midfielder he can trust or figure out a competent tactical plan, it will be his downfall.

Very good post, couldn't have said it better.

Ole values quick transitions and vertical movements. United under him don't play a possession game where they manipulate space and move as a unit around the pitch with player movement creating space and attacking the space with either players or the ball.

Southampton played with 3 at the back in the second half and were lucky to get a point, even if United were very sloppy on the ball and got caught out (Maguire). Today, Wolves played a 523/532 and just ran straight through the middle because, the middle is a numerical disadvantage, which lends the wide areas for United to exploit usually with Shaw.

It's a complex situation because United don't have a central midfield player who can pass and retain midfield control/shape. And against teams who have 3 CBs, a lower block, or press all over the pitch, the players have to be able to connect much better and be closer together...which is aided by technical players. We saw the link up with Shaw and Martial towards the end of the match. Need that type of movement, touch, and awareness all over the pitch.

Would be totally fine to play like that when a) the team would be more stable at the back (not allowing any chances and then quickly hitting the opponent) or b) having implemented some sort of coordinated press to create more transitions in better places or c) when he would have at least a little plan B in case plan A doesn't work when the other teams just leaves the ball to us.

That is mostly the issue, it feels a little cheap to just put all faults to Fred and McTominay when no other team leaves their midfielders to do their shit on their own. It is a team effort but in our team, the front players almost entirely waiting for the ball to feet. I wouldn't even say this is the biggest issue because you obviously could make it work (having Ronaldo in your team for example) but you also have to make sure first, that you can close your defensive third for the opponent. What we do is something in the middle no fish, no flesh. And in-game adjustment-wise, it is the same. Like-for-like subs very often, beating the bush...

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If our build-up and control of the game does not improve, it doesn't matter who we sign.

It's a structural problem with the team.

 

[Kag]

Putting our best player so far this season back into a position in which he is considerably poorer is shite management.

Stick with Pogba in the attacking areas and push the club to buy some proper midfielders, Ole.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Same old Ole, nothing has changed and why would it. He just is a mediocre manager, nowhere near the level of a manager needed for a team with so much talent.

 

[arthurka]

If our build-up and control of the game does not improve, it doesn't matter who we sign.

It's a structural problem with the team.

Agree, we cannot control games and rely on individual brilliance for goals. Ole must be looking at a metronome midfielder. Just don't see any improvement in our general play under Ole.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Putting our best player so far this season back into a position in which he is considerably poorer is shite management.

Stick with Pogba in the attacking areas and push the club to buy some proper midfielders, Ole.

Who are you benching then if Pogba is played as an attacker from Rashford/Sancho/Greenwood in the important games?

If Ole plans on using Pogba in an attacking role in the long run, I honestly think we should have sold him(despite how excellent I think he is).

 

[The Mitcher]

Putting our best player so far this season back into a position in which he is considerably poorer is shite management.

Stick with Pogba in the attacking areas and push the club to buy some proper midfielders, Ole.

He literally scored his goal from the right?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He had no idea how to get our team to score today. Wolves were in complete control for 80 minutes, our goal was jammy, they missed loads. With such a squad, that is just unacceptable. He just doesn't know how to get our team to play like it should. And yes again individual brilliance saved us, and I guess he is hoping on Ronaldo doing the same.

 

[The Mitcher]

He had no idea how to get our team to score today. Wolves were in complete control for 80 minutes, our goal was jammy, they missed loads. With such a squad, that is just unacceptable. He just doesn't know how to get our team to play like it should. And yes again individual brilliance saved us, and I guess he is hoping on Ronaldo doing the same.

That's not a very factual account of the match. They were certainly in control for the first 45 minutes, but were gassed by the second half very early on and once we started kicking back and getting our act together, they were never in complete control. He got us to score against our previous two opponents, we may have gotten lucky with the goal, but Greenwood always finishes those very hard chances. He took off all the worst performers (Sancho and James) and got the rest to actually play football, was it perfect? No, but he's got us grinding out wins and also winning in style like against Leeds. That's what teams competing for titles do.

 

[edcunited1878]

Very good post, couldn't have said it better.


Would be totally fine to play like that when a) the team would be more stable at the back (not allowing any chances and then quickly hitting the opponent) or b) having implemented some sort of coordinated press to create more transitions in better places or c) when he would have at least a little plan B in case plan A doesn't work when the other teams just leaves the ball to us.

That is mostly the issue, it feels a little cheap to just put all faults to Fred and McTominay when no other team leaves their midfielders to do their shit on their own. It is a team effort but in our team, the front players almost entirely waiting for the ball to feet. I wouldn't even say this is the biggest issue because you obviously could make it work (having Ronaldo in your team for example) but you also have to make sure first, that you can close your defensive third for the opponent. What we do is something in the middle no fish, no flesh. And in-game adjustment-wise, it is the same. Like-for-like subs very often, beating the bush...

You have to have technically adequate players at each position (bar GK) to play a possession game and then they still have to be able to pass. The defensive third being closed also has to do with the shape and that's more on the coaching than anything else. They can pin the opposition back, but you're not always going to sustain that pressure. Shaw and AWB will push forward, so when you lose possession, you have a couple center mids in the middle of the pitch outside the box, then your two center backs.

There will be no coordinate press when Ronaldo is upfront. The attackers are the triggers for any genuine pressing system. A high tempo and closing down team is different to a coordinated pressing side, but no team presses for an entire match. The shape and spatial awareness off the ball precedes pressing and the closing down of space (dribbling and passing).

I don't agree with the team not making enough in-game adjustments because United have comeback from a goal down too many times under Ole to salvage a point or win the match.

 

[The Mitcher]

You have to have technically adequate players at each position (bar GK) to play a possession game and then they still have to be able to pass. The defensive third being closed also has to do with the shape and that's more on the coaching than anything else. They can pin the opposition back, but you're not always going to sustain that pressure. Shaw and AWB will push forward, so when you lose possession, you have a couple center mids in the middle of the pitch outside the box, then your two center backs.

There will be no coordinate press when Ronaldo is upfront. The attackers are the triggers for any genuine pressing system. A high tempo and closing down team is different to a coordinated pressing side, but no team presses for an entire match. The shape and spatial awareness off the ball precedes pressing and the closing down of space (dribbling and passing).

I don't agree with the team not making enough in-game adjustments because United have comeback from a goal down too many times under Ole to salvage a point or win the match.

You could tell in the second half that adjustments had been made, which is why Ole did not change up the midfield. Pogba and Fred played closer together and deeper, and the wingers who were underperforming were taken off, Bruno was also much calmer that half than he was in the first also. Also, I feel we benefited from Wolves tiring themselves out in that first half. They never looked like that in the entireity of the second half bar a few moments, the fact Traore and Trincao didn't finish the match is evidence enough of that. Ole got lucky with the goal, but he did at least try SOMETHING, and it paid off. Even if Greenwood missed, I'm sure either one of Cavani or Martial would have got to that ball as it was a cross/shot.

 

[NZT-One]

You have to have technically adequate players at each position (bar GK) to play a possession game and then they still have to be able to pass. The defensive third being closed also has to do with the shape and that's more on the coaching than anything else. They can pin the opposition back, but you're not always going to sustain that pressure. Shaw and AWB will push forward, so when you lose possession, you have a couple center mids in the middle of the pitch outside the box, then your two center backs.

There will be no coordinate press when Ronaldo is upfront. The attackers are the triggers for any genuine pressing system. A high tempo and closing down team is different to a coordinated pressing side, but no team presses for an entire match. The shape and spatial awareness off the ball precedes pressing and the closing down of space (dribbling and passing).

I don't agree with the team not making enough in-game adjustments because United have comeback from a goal down too many times under Ole to salvage a point or win the match.

Only answering on this point, the other tomorrow: he has been good with comebacks but every so often, we only started playing on a serious level once we went down a goal or the clock got ticking louder. I don't want to say, Ole is very bad at in game adjustments, but I don't think, there are many indicators for him being more than alright to ok. Certainly almost none indicators for very good. I mean, telling your team to wake up and start to get your act together because you sleepwalkingly wasted 45 to 60minutes of football isn't what I would call an in-game-adjustment. I would, if it happens 2 or 3 times in a season - but we are talking about 10 to 16 times.

 

[edcunited1878]

There has never been a team so poor in midfield that has won any serious trophy. I would say your reading of it is as favourable a tactical defense of Ole as is possible, but to me it just seems he lacks parts of the fundamentals.

What fundamentals are you trying to point out? United are the only top 4 team to play with 2/2/1/1 through the middle (CB, CM, CAM, CF), not including Spurs. Even with Spurs, Hojiberg is more of a holding player than either Fred or McTominay.

United's central midfield, not including Pogba, is more functional rather than good. They do a job for the team. Liverpool doesn't have a creative central midfield, but in relation to the team, it's a strength because there are 3 players in the middle and Fabinho is a class player.

I agree that United's current central midfield, Fred/McTominay/Pogba, has too many weaknesses to be a serious title contender. It could work, but major adjustments would have to be made in terms of overall team shape and play. Don't think Ole is one to tinker that much and be overly complex. I don't always agree with it, as in Ole's tactical flexibility is rather dull. However, Tuchel's Chelsea and Klopp's Liverpool don't deviate much either.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

You are never going to have a perfect squad and I feel that somehow United fans have become too obsessed with the idea of signings improving the team rather than any tactical or managerial inputs.
People will say that Wolves are a good team and so a win away to them is pretty goof which is fine but they were playing their 3rd game under a manager while we have had 3 years under our manager and yet they had better structure to the team.
I understand playing on the counter is easier but I genuinely wonder about in terms of actual tactical input & style what exactly does Ole bring to the table . I wish more journalists would press on such things after games rather than letting him talk about spirit and great result etc

 

[The Mitcher]

There has never been a team so poor in midfield that has won any serious trophy. I would say your reading of it is as favourable a tactical defense of Ole as is possible, but to me it just seems he lacks parts of the fundamentals.

Our 2012-13 side was constantly being moaned about by posters on the caf for not having a functioning midfield, yet we still won the league comfortably. Sure, we had Fergie, but that team won the league, and it's achilles heel was without a doubt the midfield. When we played Carrick with either one of Scholes or Giggs we were overrun constantly, see the games against Spurs and Fulham when they were just ran past. Whenever Cleverley played along side Carrick or when Anderson was there, it was harder for teams, hell even Jones played decently in midfield. But it was plain as day we needed players like Herrera or Thiago at the time to improve it. But the idea that teams with poor midfields don't win trophies is ludicrious. In fact, here's another team, Liverpool. Their midfield was nothing to write home about when they won the UCL and the PL. In fact the midfield was only there to win the ball and give it to VVD to longball it to the front three, or to get into Salah, mane, the fullbacks, and let them win the game.

 

[edcunited1878]

Only answering on this point, the other tomorrow: he has been good with comebacks but every so often, we only started playing on a serious level once we went down a goal or the clock got ticking louder. I don't want to say, Ole is very bad at in game adjustments, but I don't think, there are many indicators for him being more than alright to ok. Certainly almost none indicators for very good. I mean, telling your team to wake up and start to get your act together because you sleepwalkingly wasted 45 to 60minutes of football isn't what I would call an in-game-adjustment. I would, if it happens 2 or 3 times in a season - but we are talking about 10 to 16 times.

It's up to the players as well to make adjustments and play to what the match is giving you. Giving up goals against the run of play or having to ride out initial pressure is part of football. Wolves ran about, especially Traore, for the entire first half. But then they burst their own bubble because it was unsustainable.

Like last season's match against Southampton and others, the opposition has been clinical and fortunate to take a lead. But that doesn't mean you have to make wholesale changes of subs and tactics. Settle down a bit, continue playing your game at a high tempo and it will come. And it came then and it came again today. Against a back five was tough without Mike Dean allow Wolves kicking the shit out of United the first half.

 

[simonhch]

You get good games and bad games, and sometimes a manager has to go through the bad games to see what is going to work and what isn't. Fans always know better, that's just an unassailable fact of football. Even when the manager wins, he got lucky. A logical assessment that you have to hope Solksjaer comes to is that you simply can't fit all the stars into this team because you are going to end up with square pegs in round holes. Pogba is simply not a reliable central midfielder, especially not in the premier league. He's an advanced playmaker, and looks at his best off the left. Right now, given injuries and form etc, I would say that the best team we can put out against Newcastle would be:

De Gea

Varane __________ Maguire
Bissaka __________________________________________Shaw

Matic

______________________Van de Beek

Greenwood _______ Bruno _____________________Pogba

Ronaldo

Subs: Heaton, Lindelof, Dalot, Fred, Lingard, Sancho, Mata, Martial, Cavani
​

To me, that team has balance. When McTominay returns, you bring him in for Matic IMO, or go for the McFred base. Unless we sign a player of the physical presence, and position awareness of say a Declan Rice, I just can't see Pogba playing in midfield. As lavishly gifted as he is, we would be much better off selling him and reinvesting the funds into the midfield. Once Rashford is back, you have him, Greenwood and Sancho competing for two spots, and Ronaldo and Cavani competing up front. Martial just sort of fits in where he fits in as part of general rotation.

Right now McTominay's physical presence, engine, and energy are vital in that midfield. Van de Beek is probably our best recycler of possession, but we'd have to change the system to one where we are looking for retention of the ball and recycling of possession from the midfield, rather than incisive forward passes. Matic is our best holding midfielder, but his best days are behind him at his age. Fred is a number 8, not a six. And given license to play as a box to box, is very effective an useful. He's not a holding number 6, and him getting lambasted for it today, felt very unfair. Two square pegs in round holes in center midfield today.

I really don't ever want to see Pogba in central midfield again unless he is accompanied by two other proficient midfielders, and that third slot is likely always going to be taken by Bruno.

As for Bruno, he is such a goal threat, but he was deployed far too far forward today, and we lost the midfield battle as a result. It was a waste to see him as a false nine most of the match. The only hope you ever have of surviving Pogba in central midfield, is if Bruno puts in a shift in the center of the park to help out. He did the opposite today, or was deployed in a way that made little sense to me.

The fact is that these things seem, very logical on paper, but it's not always that easy as the manager. We have gleaned 7 points from 9 with a very limited pre-season, and made some excellent signings. The key thing was not to get off to a bad start and relinquish the title chase before the season got going. And we've done that. I have a lot of faith the Ole will figure this out.

If we could swap Pogba out for a Verratti, Jorginho, Rice, Camavinga, Barrella Goretzka, Kimmich.....any top midfielder....whether it was a 6 or an 8, we'd be so much better off. I'm not making PP a scapegoat here, just pointing out that he doesn't really fit the team unless he plays off the left, and we are far too stacked there already.

 

[edcunited1878]

You could tell in the second half that adjustments had been made, which is why Ole did not change up the midfield. Pogba and Fred played closer together and deeper, and the wingers who were underperforming were taken off, Bruno was also much calmer that half than he was in the first also. Also, I feel we benefited from Wolves tiring themselves out in that first half. They never looked like that in the entireity of the second half bar a few moments, the fact Traore and Trincao didn't finish the match is evidence enough of that. Ole got lucky with the goal, but he did at least try SOMETHING, and it paid off. Even if Greenwood missed, I'm sure either one of Cavani or Martial would have got to that ball as it was a cross/shot.

United were the much fitter team as well throughout the 90 minutes. Credit to Wolves because they are solid at the back and can break going forward with their skill players, but have not been clinical thus far. Spurs and United were fortunate to come away with 3 points instead of 1 or none at all. The match was much more controlled and compact in the second half. United made the right adjustments and subs, which hurt Wolves at the end.

 

[The Mitcher]

You get good games and bad games, and sometimes a manager has to go through the bad games to see what is going to work and what isn't. Fans always know better, that's just an unassailable fact of football. Even when the manager wins, he got lucky. A logical assessment that you have to hope Solksjaer comes to is that you simply can't fit all the stars into this team because you are going to end up with square pegs in round holes. Pogba is simply not a reliable central midfielder, especially not in the premier league. He's an advanced playmaker, and looks at his best off the left. Right now, given injuries and form etc, I would say that the best team we can put out against Newcastle would be:

De Gea

Varane __________ Maguire
Bissaka __________________________________________Shaw

Matic

______________________Van de Beek

Greenwood _______ Bruno _____________________Pogba

Ronaldo

Subs: Heaton, Lindelof, Dalot, Fred, Lingard, Sancho, Mata, Martial, Cavani
​

To me, that team has balance. When McTominay returns, you bring him in for Matic IMO, or go for the McFred base. Unless we sign a player of the physical presence, and position awareness of say a Declan Rice, I just can't see Pogba playing in midfield. As lavishly gifted as he is, we would be much better off selling him and reinvesting the funds into the midfield. Once Rashford is back, you have him, Greenwood and Sancho competing for two spots, and Ronaldo and Cavani competing up front. Martial just sort of fits in where he fits in as part of general rotation.

Right now McTominay's physical presence, engine, and energy are vital in that midfield. Van de Beek is probably our best recycler of possession, but we'd have to change the system to one where we are looking for retention of the ball and recycling of possession from the midfield, rather than incisive forward passes. Matic is our best holding midfielder, but his best days are behind him at his age. Fred is a number 8, not a six. And given license to play as a box to box, is very effective an useful. He's not a holding number 6, and him getting lambasted for it today, felt very unfair. Two square pegs in round holes in center midfield today.

I really don't ever want to see Pogba in central midfield again unless he is accompanied by two other proficient midfielders, and that third slot is likely always going to be taken by Bruno.

As for Bruno, he is such a goal threat, but he was deployed far too far forward today, and we lost the midfield battle as a result. It was a waste to see him as a false nine most of the match. The only hope you ever have of surviving Pogba in central midfield, is if Bruno puts in a shift in the center of the park to help out. He did the opposite today, or was deployed in a way that made little sense to me.

The fact is that these things seem, very logical on paper, but it's not always that easy as the manager. We have gleaned 7 points from 9 with a very limited pre-season, and made some excellent signings. The key thing was not to get off to a bad start and relinquish the title chase before the season got going. And we've done that. I have a lot of faith the Ole will figure this out.

If we could swap Pogba out for a Verratti, Jorginho, Rice, Camavinga, Barrella Goretzka, Kimmich.....any top midfielder....whether it was a 6 or an 8, we'd be so much better off. I'm not making PP a scapegoat here, just pointing out that he doesn't really fit the team unless he plays off the left, and we are far too stacked there already.

How the hell is that a balanced midfield in any way? That's a midfield that the likes of traroe (or better players than him) will just walk through easily, because of Matic's slowness and DvB's lack of discipline. McT and Fred will be the first choice pairing as it is actually balanced and has defensive solidity.

 

[The Mitcher]

United were the much fitter team as well throughout the 90 minutes. Credit to Wolves because they are solid at the back and can break going forward with their skill players, but have not been clinical thus far. Spurs and United were fortunate to come away with 3 points instead of 1 or none at all. The match was much more controlled and compact in the second half. United made the right adjustments and subs, which hurt Wolves at the end.

Yes, but the Ole Out crowd will just scream he's bad tactically and he got lucky. So what he got lucky, so what he made a tactical decision that didn't work initially. He doesn't really have any other options better than Pogba to play alongside Fred at the moment. If the two had played a blinder and hemmed wolves back, no one would be moaning about that, they'd be silent.

 

[edcunited1878]

You are never going to have a perfect squad and I feel that somehow United fans have become too obsessed with the idea of signings improving the team rather than any tactical or managerial inputs.
People will say that Wolves are a good team and so a win away to them is pretty goof which is fine but they were playing their 3rd game under a manager while we have had 3 years under our manager and yet they had better structure to the team.
I understand playing on the counter is easier but I genuinely wonder about in terms of actual tactical input & style what exactly does Ole bring to the table . I wish more journalists would press on such things after games rather than letting him talk about spirit and great result etc

Wolves played 3 at the back, just like they did for the most of their tenure under NES. The only difference is that Jimenez is back and there's more quality on the ball in the name of Trincao and Traore is running riot for as long as he can. It's the same thing Tuchel has done at Chelsea with the back 3 wingbacks and two center mids that Conte established and won the league with. Tuchel has added more pressing, but also Cheslea has much better players now in the system.

 

[Kaos]

I can't put my finger on him, and whether I'm Ole in or out. On one hand he's had us consistently finishing within the top 4 for the first time since Fergie retired, is building clearly a very good squad and has just broken the undefeated away record. It also helps that he's a likeable United legend that always seems to say the right things. But on the other hand he seems a little lost tactically, with no game plan or style to speak of, consistently picks poor, underperforming players, and seems to be getting outclassed by managers of inferior teams. On paper there's progress for sure, but I can't help but shake the feeling that we'd be a lot more competitive with a better manager. The issue is I don't know who that manager is. A year ago I was screaming for us to get Nagelsmann, but now that's no longer an option I'm not sure who I'd take instead considering our poor track record with experienced, supposedly world class managers. As for him being lucky and being bailed out by individual brilliance - yeah, I probably wouldn't have been as diplomatic had De Gea not made those saves and AWB not blocked that chance off the line and we ended up losing the game, but considering he picks the teams and players that have supposedly 'bailed him out' can only be a testament to him surely?

In short I have no clue where I stand on him, but one things for sure is he needs to win something this season or at the very least mount a very respectable title challenge/champions league run. If he fails to do any of that then I'm firmly expecting and hoping he gets the sack next summer.

 

[edcunited1878]

How the hell is that a balanced midfield in any way? That's a midfield that the likes of traroe (or better players than him) will just walk through easily, because of Matic's slowness and DvB's lack of discipline. McT and Fred will be the first choice pairing as it is actually balanced and has defensive solidity.

The McTominay and Fred pairing is much more functional than technically good if that makes sense. DVB doesn't have the fight and tenacity to be in United's midfield two. I'd like to see him tried there, especially if a team sits back a bit, but totally understand why he's not currently viewed at a central midfielder. DVB's passing range isn't all that good either from the middle of the park.

United don't need a world class center midfielder to take them up a level. They just need a better technical player than Fred and McTominay who is mobile and aware to get around the center. If a Carrick, Scholes, or Butt enters this current center midfield team, even Hargreaves...it's a genuine title contender. I don't claim to know who that player is, but it's a clear weakness that holds the team back to that next higher level.

 

[The Mitcher]

The McTominay and Fred pairing is much more functional than technically good if that makes sense. DVB doesn't have the fight and tenacity to be in United's midfield two. I'd like to see him tried there, especially if a team sits back a bit, but totally understand why he's not currently viewed at a central midfielder. DVB's passing range isn't all that good either from the middle of the park.

United don't need a world class center midfielder to take them up a level. They just need a better technical player than Fred and McTominay who is mobile and aware to get around the center. If a Carrick, Scholes, or Butt enters this current center midfield team, even Hargreaves...it's a genuine title contender. I don't claim to know who that player is, but it's a clear weakness that holds the team back to that next higher level.

Whoever it is, it's not Neves!

 

[simonhch]

How the hell is that a balanced midfield in any way? That's a midfield that the likes of traroe (or better players than him) will just walk through easily, because of Matic's slowness and DvB's lack of discipline. McT and Fred will be the first choice pairing as it is actually balanced and has defensive solidity.

Which I said, once they are both fit. I said the best team we can put out against Newcastle. Traore doesn't play for Newcastle, last I checked. Be nice if you took the opportunity to read the post before you had a mouth frothing response.

 

[The Mitcher]

Which I said, once they are both fit. I said the best team we can put out against Newcastle. Traore doesn't play for Newcastle, last I checked. Be nice if you took the opportunity to read the post before you had a mouth frothing response.

Frothing at the mouth, please stop with the hyperbole.

 

[El Zoido]

He always seems to find a way to get us playing really well. I want to criticise him more for the way we’ve played these past two games, but I just know we’re going to get really good. It’s weird.

 

[edcunited1878]

I can't put my finger on him, and whether I'm Ole in or out. On one hand he's had us consistently finishing within the top 4 for the first time since Fergie retired, is building clearly a very good squad and has just broken the undefeated away record. It also helps that he's a likeable United legend that always seems to say the right things. But on the other hand he seems a little lost tactically, with no game plan or style to speak of, consistently picks poor, underperforming players, and seems to be getting outclassed by managers of inferior teams. On paper there's progress for sure, but I can't help but shake the feeling that we'd be a lot more competitive with a better manager. The issue is I don't know who that manager is. A year ago I was screaming for us to get Nagelsmann, but now that's no longer an option I'm not sure who I'd take instead considering our poor track record with experienced, supposedly world class managers. As for him being lucky and being bailed out by individual brilliance - yeah, I probably wouldn't have been as diplomatic had De Gea not made those saves and AWB not blocked that chance off the line and we ended up losing the game, but considering he picks the teams and players that have supposedly 'bailed him out' can only be a testament to him surely?

In short I have no clue where I stand on him, but one things for sure is he needs to win something this season or at the very least mount a very respectable title challenge/champions league run. If he fails to do any of that then I'm firmly expecting and hoping he gets the sack next summer.

Changing Ole right now wouldn't make a difference because United's squad is behind Chelsea's and City. Liverpool's starting XI v. United's is kind of a push, but Liverpool's has won together.

United's weaknesses in the squad cannot be masked by any manager. The middle is good, but weak compared to the other teams around them. Going 3 at the back won't help because you have one less forward for a CB and AWB isn't good enough going forward as a wingback.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Changing Ole right now wouldn't make a difference because United's squad is behind Chelsea's and City. Liverpool's starting XI v. United's is kind of a push, but Liverpool's has won together.

United's weaknesses in the squad cannot be masked by any manager. The middle is good, but weak compared to the other teams around them. Going 3 at the back won't help because you have one less forward for a CB and AWB isn't good enough going forward as a wingback.

With due respect, that's just bollocks. Look at Chelsea's squad before Tuchel and tell me, they were a defensive masterclass of a team? Look at Milner, Wijnaldum, Henderson and tell me how Klopp managed to make Liverpool a press, counter press, possession and chance creation machine.

Ole deserves a lot of credit but because of the position he's in, he also warrants a lot of justified criticism. If the middle is weak then make it a priority for a formation, playing style or tactics to shore it up. Play a 4-3-3, better integrate a technical player (VDB), play a 3-4-3, play a 4-4-2, do anything and make it a conscious decision to address those issues. How can you look at today's performance and the squad and think 'Ole is doing everything a manager can do'. Wolves and Southampton played really well and to be fair would have given anyone a game but there's no way we should be so pourous, lacking in ideas of how to progress the ball up the pitch without moments of class from Pogba, who had to dally on the ball longer than usual just to look for the free man. Why is Bruno playing almost shoulder to shoulder with Greenwood? Why didn't Sancho see more of the ball?

It's one thing to be try and understand what Ole wants to do but it's another to call out what you're actually seeing after 3 years.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Changing Ole right now wouldn't make a difference because United's squad is behind Chelsea's and City. Liverpool's starting XI v. United's is kind of a push, but Liverpool's has won together.

United's weaknesses in the squad cannot be masked by any manager. The middle is good, but weak compared to the other teams around them. Going 3 at the back won't help because you have one less forward for a CB and AWB isn't good enough going forward as a wingback.

I still find it amazing that people are still complaining about our squad compared to our rivals.

We've strengthened the most in the summer transfer window and brought in 2 world class players(1 of them being one of the best ever players) and another great player in Sancho(arguably world class).

Teams don't have 25 world class players. Our squad is more than good enough. Yes, I would love another midfielder brought in, but there is no excuse to not challenge with the squad we have.

Other teams have weaknesses too. No squad is perfect.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Changing Ole right now wouldn't make a difference because United's squad is behind Chelsea's and City. Liverpool's starting XI v. United's is kind of a push, but Liverpool's has won together.

United's weaknesses in the squad cannot be masked by any manager. The middle is good, but weak compared to the other teams around them. Going 3 at the back won't help because you have one less forward for a CB and AWB isn't good enough going forward as a wingback.

Funny that a year ago when comparing Chelsea's squad with ours many here agreed that we had a better squad. A year later we have Varane, Sancho and Cristiano while Chelsea has only added Lukaku.

I have the feeling that Chelsea squad is perceived way better since Tuchel arrived, we have plenty of talent to go head to head with any team in the world. I truly believe it, it's coaching that's letting us down. If we had Tuchel, Klopp or Pep I can only imagine the possibilities.

 

[meamth]

I'm confused.

Sack him now, get a proper tactical manager, and then what?

We suddenly won 38 games straight to the title?

Amazing if management works like that.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm confused.

Sack him now, get a proper tactical manager, and then what?

We suddenly won 38 games straight to the title?

Amazing if management works like that.

Worked for Chelsea.

 

[Womp]

]

I'm confused.

Sack him now, get a proper tactical manager, and then what?

We suddenly won 38 games straight to the title?

Amazing if management works like that.

You're right, there's no point to hiring a superior manager. Once Ole is gone, they might as well hire one of the caf, won't make a difference anyway

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If our build-up and control of the game does not improve, it doesn't matter who we sign.

It's a structural problem with the team.

Absolutely. Yes we could do with a deep lying playmaker or an 8 who can run the game but so could everybody else. Fact is, that three years into Ole's tenure we still don't play tactically strong football with a high level of organisation. Regardless of personal, if you have a quality manager, he should be able to implement these things within a year or so. Inability to get the ball to your forwards is the clearest sign you can have, of the manager and coaching staff not being up to the mark.