And that's because their managers have won PL (and CL in klopps case) have a proper defined way of playing and look like a coherent group of players. They've built up the credit so they get the slack when needed. And I genuinely believe our squad is better than both. Yet here we are.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Wolves and Southampton are not bottom feeders for one.
There will always be question marks over Ole until he wins a league title and rightly so. United should be winning titles.
Wow .. what a relief. I guess we must wait for the newly promoted then.
Listen to yourselves and give your head a wobble.
There is a very short list of managers that we could expect to do better, we can't replace him just for the sake of it. Seems the higher ups didn't fancy Poch when he was available. Tuchel would have been great in retrospect.
I'd get Zidane at this point. Just as good a man manager and can get his team to play to their strengths.
Finally you giving him credit for putting McT as CB, to prove his point which is basically sabotaging his own team vs West Ham, thank you.
7pts from 9. Sitting pretty in the table. World class players coming to join us under him. But we still have to have Ole out BS every single fecking day.
"But he doesn't improve players"
Well Bruno, Shaw, Greenwood have been class under him. Maguire getting better and better. Cavani hasn't been bad at all. Mctomminay (yes you read that one correctly) gets better and better too and we miss him when not around.
You theories are wrong. Players have got better. Not all but that hardly ever happens with any manager bar 1 in a million.
Get behind him or go and support one of the plastic clubs.
"But he doesn't improve players"
Well Bruno, Shaw, Greenwood have been class under him. Maguire getting better and better. Cavani hasn't been bad at all. Mctomminay (yes you read that one correctly) gets better and better too and we miss him when not around.
You theories are wrong. Players have got better. Not all but that hardly ever happens with any manager bar 1 in a million.
Get behind him or go and support one of the plastic clubs.
If he wanted to stay for more than a few years then that would be very interesting. If it's just 2 years, maybe not worth it depending on who we get after him.
I am sure you know what the point is, because, just as I did, you read all the posts about the terrific job Ole did to stabilize the team after Mourinho. Apart from that - nice to see us agree on context in general. I'd like to add that I am pretty sure, if we would bring in a chelsea fan, we would be able to collect even more "context".
Yes I would say Ole was the better manager last year. Because Klopp made the mistake of reacting to the injuries by bringing his trusted midfield players into defense and therefor spreading the cancer to even more parts of the team. He corrected it eventually, so I wouldn't take away a lot of his credit because the injury crisis was pretty rough. Oles biggest fault was not engaging our set piece issue for a whole season and the no-show in the EL finale. Apart from that, he was pretty good. But Klopp also managed his team to some good stats, so when I say Ole was better than him, I don't want to say, Ole was great and Klopp was shit, I would say, Ole was pretty good and Klopp was mostly alright. Tuchel on the other hand came in and changed a team without a clear direction into a well-organized possession team, able to create chances and stop opposition chances. He also trumped Pep in the CL Final, he was very good last season.
For fun, lets answer all questions regardless of the original context. What caused us to lose the midfield battle in your opinion?
Well, that is the beauty of "witnessing" whole matches isn't it. Of course you will see way more of what you don't like in 90min than in a 3min-highlight video. But lets face it, we all are flawed in that respect. And this community is well trained in the old "3 points is all that counts" approach to shrug off bad performances as soon as the points are secured.
I agree. But you don't have to participate and if other people like to do it, they should do what they want. I see it this way: each match provides you with some more indicators making this or that hypothesis likelier or unlikelier. So I think, there is nothing wrong with discussing each week. Spiralling through endless Klopp-comparisons is tedious, I'll give you that but both parties are responsible for that.
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Not impressed at all by his tactics. Give it to Pogba and wait for the long ball isn't going to be enough in most matches.
I will take 2 years and go from there. In fact I prefer that, if he cannot get it done in 2 years move on.
You think last year's squad was better than City's? Incredible.
So their theories are wrong but yours are right? Because... you said that "Cavani hasn't been bad at all" and "McTomminay gets better and better"? There are people who would consider that as pretty arrogant.
I have a feeling his luck will run out this season. No top 4 and another poor UCL and he's out.
Defense wise we are spot on. Attack wise we could be better i feel.
Although i think that we play the same against everyone. It is just that when we play against the better teams, todays performance would be seen as a good one. We struggle to beat the poor teams away from home. But then the good teams struggle against us as well.
Although i think that we play the same against everyone. It is just that when we play against the better teams, todays performance would be seen as a good one. We struggle to beat the poor teams away from home. But then the good teams struggle against us as well.
Wait.. do you think every non-top 6 team is a bottom feeder? Wolves and Southamption are established PL clubs who are solidly mid table quality and are not say Norwich or Crystal Palace who're bottom feeders and will be there and thereabouts for relaxation this year. Surely we're not blind to that?
This is where he needs to earn his money. On the training pitch. Our football is littered with situations like this. Transfer windows will only get you so far.
Manager carousel, I suppose most teams are used to it, and it's not as bad as it sounds. Perhaps different managers can help improve different players in different ways.
I don't think we can afford a Morinho style clear out and rebuild into a different style, though. We need someone who can adapt the tactics to make the most of what we have, if we do switch it up.
But the contact extention makes that seem unlikely. There's no need to have Ole on anything more than a year to year deal, he's not leaving us for better pay elsewhere, even if he becomes elite later.
Unless players coming in want to see the manager isn't going to be changed next year?
Even when we win and go on long unbeaten runs Ole outers are just bringing the whole mood down.
Go and support Pep then at City. Ole has bought us Bruno, Varane , Sancho and Ronaldo....we've had a decent start to season and still pissing and moaning.
That's the spirit. Jesus wept. I think we will be comfortable top 4 and even genuine title challengers and you're saying not top 4? On what basis can that be true? We have finished 3rd and 2nd and just added 3 world class players ffs
There are people like above who no matter what happens in a match, they ignore everything as long as the result is favourable.
Obviously you can, if you are a deluded fanboy who cares more about being right than actually care for the club winning major trophies. Meh, trophies are overrated anyway.
Signing of Ronaldo is actually a double edged sword for Ole. You have to deliver now by challenging for the title. With Zidane waiting, things could really go bad , if we don't challenge under Ole.
Enough of this bollocks. When will people understand that saying such thing doesn't make you look cool or the best United fan ever ?
There might not be many that would improve our position on the table when competing against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel. but there’s some that would definitely improve our style of play which should be just as important in my opinion especially if we aren’t competing for trophies.
A scrappy win away from home.
A great record (not even just a PL record, but a top flight record).
7 points from 3 games.
I’m happy-ish. On to the next.
A great record (not even just a PL record, but a top flight record).
7 points from 3 games.
I’m happy-ish. On to the next.
For the first part, I've said this earlier on other relevant threads, but Fred as lone DM is a disaster waiting to happen. And I really believe Ole got that bit wrong today. He commits way too early and if you overlap his weaknesses with the skills required for someone to be a good lone DM, they'd overlap quite significantly.
The community isn't trained for the old 3 point bit. We're just biased with our opinions, and want to vent some random frustrations. The thing is half the criticism Ole gets here, if the same things were done by other managers, we'd give them a longer leash. For example, had City or Klopp won like this today, we'd be talking about champions' mentality, and how they manage to get 3 points despite being the 2nd best side. We'd be talking about some variables that can't be quantified and all. But because it's Ole, we need to go for the more basic approach. Look, I'm not saying I'm unbiased or Ole is as good as those two (atleast not currently) and what I say is always right, but while assessing something, atleast keep the parameters consistent for all managers after applying context
Bro we were absolutely shocking today & looked devoid of any plan whatsoever. We are allowed to say that without being told to go support City.
The three points are the most important thing, but it was a very very worrying performance. Something we see all too often under Ole.
We won every game under SAF in style. There where never games where we struggled and got away with it.
What’s the point in sacking one tactically inept manager for another?
We have to play better.
We can't play like that consistently and expect to get results. Sooner than later, it'll come back to bite us.
I thought we were good vs Southampton(but toothless and unlucky). Today's performance was concerning, but hopefully a one-off for the season.
That clip @GifLord posted is a common occurrence with the team. We routinely bypass the midfield and go for the Hollywood ball too often. We need to have some semblance of control via the midfield. I'm not expecting us to be like Pep's Barcelona, but there has to be a balance.
It doesn't matter who gets brought in. The coaching staff have to step up.
We can't play like that consistently and expect to get results. Sooner than later, it'll come back to bite us.
I thought we were good vs Southampton(but toothless and unlucky). Today's performance was concerning, but hopefully a one-off for the season.
That clip @GifLord posted is a common occurrence with the team. We routinely bypass the midfield and go for the Hollywood ball too often. We need to have some semblance of control via the midfield. I'm not expecting us to be like Pep's Barcelona, but there has to be a balance.
It doesn't matter who gets brought in. The coaching staff have to step up.
This is not true. We've grinded wins with SAF too.
But most of the time, the performances matched the results. We need to get back to that.
It’s wolves away, at the end of the day. It’s one of those games you don’t play well but you just have to get through. They’re tricky cnuts and you take whatever you can get, same as Burnley away. Fergie had his own bogey sides as you say. Stoke, Middlesbrough, Bolton, they all caused us problems but you take 3 points no matter how scrappy because you know they’ll give your rivals a hard game too.
2 out of the 3 games have been underwhelming, the worst was today.
Still we have 7 points, many will argue that we are close to the top etc. Bottom line we all now this kind of performances will cost us sooner or later, we have the same weaknesses that we've had since Ole's arrival.
Still we have 7 points, many will argue that we are close to the top etc. Bottom line we all now this kind of performances will cost us sooner or later, we have the same weaknesses that we've had since Ole's arrival.
That's not true. Fergie's last season. There were numerous games where we were pants sometimes even outplayed and only won due to RVP saving us
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.
It's not about him needing a better coaching staff. He needs to understand much better what he wants and how he wants to go about achieving that. You can say it's poor form to say this, but against more defensive sides it will take more than "go on and enjoy yourselves." Honestly, that's what it looks like. Trust the players. There is no identity being created here.
He's already made some detrimental changes in the first three games that he was under no pressure to do. Moving Greenwood from centre forward to wide right, to play Martial against Southampton. And now removing Pogba from the wide left position where he really has excelled to drop him into a two man midfield alongside Fred which was the root of all our problems today. If he doesn't trust Donny, he should be selling him and reinvesting immediately. And he'll need to develop our buildup play as talk of trophies and a serious title challenge is moot before he addresses this elephant in the room.
Without the level of midfielders we require, I imagine the training sessions (matches) never give a good indication as to what we will come up against in the league. If it's not a technically superior midfield (which most times it is), it is one where we are outnumbered and/or outfought.
The weight of expectation now will rightly be huge and is already being framed thus in the press, given our stellar signings. If he doesn't go all out to ensure he can have a midfielder he can trust or figure out a competent tactical plan, it will be his downfall.
He's already made some detrimental changes in the first three games that he was under no pressure to do. Moving Greenwood from centre forward to wide right, to play Martial against Southampton. And now removing Pogba from the wide left position where he really has excelled to drop him into a two man midfield alongside Fred which was the root of all our problems today. If he doesn't trust Donny, he should be selling him and reinvesting immediately. And he'll need to develop our buildup play as talk of trophies and a serious title challenge is moot before he addresses this elephant in the room.
Without the level of midfielders we require, I imagine the training sessions (matches) never give a good indication as to what we will come up against in the league. If it's not a technically superior midfield (which most times it is), it is one where we are outnumbered and/or outfought.
The weight of expectation now will rightly be huge and is already being framed thus in the press, given our stellar signings. If he doesn't go all out to ensure he can have a midfielder he can trust or figure out a competent tactical plan, it will be his downfall.
Ole is very persistent with two central midfield players, which presents a set of challenges in of itself because teams can mark them out or numerically outnumber them in the middle of the pitch.
The on ball quality has to improve for McTominay and Fred. As we saw today and will always persist, Pogba can get into compromising positions in the middle of the park.
Considering United's squad and injuries/lack of fitness, this wasn't the ideal starting XI to combat Wolves. Having a vertical threat out wide in the naming of Rashford would have helped, as would have a McTominay and Fred pairing.
The on ball quality has to improve for McTominay and Fred. As we saw today and will always persist, Pogba can get into compromising positions in the middle of the park.
Considering United's squad and injuries/lack of fitness, this wasn't the ideal starting XI to combat Wolves. Having a vertical threat out wide in the naming of Rashford would have helped, as would have a McTominay and Fred pairing.
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