Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[dove]

I totally agree. The vast majority of the fan base is willing to make excuses for him no matter the result. 'He needs to be properly backed', 'he just needs three good signings and he'll be ready to challenge'. I simply don't see it.

His over reliance on a small core of players speaks for itself. I wish this club was as ruthless as Chelsea and Juventus who wasted no time ridding themselves of club legends as soon as it was painfully obvious they didn't have what it takes to challenge the best managers in their respective leagues.

Solskjaer has survived periods of bad form which were worthy of teams battling relegation and the board just sat there and let it happen. The season hasn't been a disaster but we can do much better under someone else

Nah, what Chelsea are doing is not the "right way". Sacked Lampard, who is arguably a bigger legend at Chelsea than Ole is at United and although the results were not great, they never had massive lows like we did with Ole last season where we genuinely looked like a bottom half team for quite some period of time. Replaced him with Tuchel who got them in 2 cup finals already (funny how he didn't need 5 years and £500m to achieve that, according to some people here it's just impossible to do anything in such a short period of time). They might win the CL today, they might not and end up trophy-less but either way, achieved more than we did in the last 8 years or so with our "he needs 5 years" excuses. Managing United should be a dream job. Big transfer budget and quite literally no expectations apart from TOP 4, winning trophies is clearly not a requirement here. What would get you sacked at all other big clubs is being branded as "progress" and "needs more time" here. Unbelievable.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Even if he doesn't have success at club in the end, I still like what his doing in terms of strengthening the squad and getting rid of deadwood. Will be interesting to compare our team in September 2021 (presuming we strengthen this summer the way it's planned) to the one from May 2019, before Ole's first transfer window as manager.

Exactly, that's the bar on Ole. Even if he doesn't win a thing he's great because something.

 

[el3mel]

I'm hoping we put up a real title challenge next year.

It's a bit strange that our fans think Ole's rebuild is taking too long, no trophies in his 2 full seasons.
When I mention Klopp, who didn't put up a title challenge until his 3rd full season, the same posters come guns blazing in defense of Klopp.

By the way, I'm not saying that Ole is as good a manager Klopp is. However I do believe we're progressing, and that Ole has earned the right to show us what he can achieve next season.

Point is, chances are a rebuild will take a few years before it results in titles, even in the hands of world class managers - which is why I brought up Klopp.
I'm positive that even if Ole fails, his rebuilding so far will act as a springboard for the manager that follows.
Which is a great job in itself, seeing the mess we were after LVG and Mourinho.

Klopp made Liverpool a CL finalist in his second full season. This comparison of progress between both died once we got KOed from the group stage.

The rebuild project point is pretty lame and convenient. I talked about it already. You can go on 10 years without a single trophy and still claim we are rebuilding the team and he's not getting the transfers he wants. Just a lame excuse that you can keep mentioning every year without a problem.

Point is Klopp got his side to get 97 points and win CL in his 3rd season so if we are following the same trajectory we should expect the same from Ole next season. Are you preparing to stand by this comparison and claim that Ole will be able to manage these feats next or stop with such nonsense because we all know we have zero faith in Ole's United to even mount a challenge next year?

 

[el3mel]

The "go to work early after defeat" trophy.

To add it to his other trophies:

"top 4 back to back" trophy.
"Harmony and happiness in the club" trophy.
"reaching EL final" trophy.
"Handling press well" trophy.

 

[Harold_Giles]

Klopp made Liverpool a CL finalist in his second full season. This comparison of progress between both died once we got KOed from the group stage.

The rebuild project point is pretty lame and convenient. I talked about it already. You can go on 10 years without a single trophy and still claim we are rebuilding the team and he's not getting the transfers he wants. Just a lame excuse that you can keep mentioning every year without a problem.

Point is Klopp got his side to get 97 points and win CL in his 3rd season so if we are following the same trajectory we should expect the same from Ole next season. Are you preparing to stand by this comparison and claim that Ole will be able to manage these feats next or stop with such nonsense because we all know we have zero faith in Ole's United to even mount a challenge next year?

Klopp made the CL final and lost.
Ended 4th placed in the league that year. Knocked out of both domestic cups very early.

I'm pretty sure Ole would get slated on here for a mirroring season.

Why is the rebuilding point lame? I don't think anyone would actually claim a 10 year rebuild period.

My expectations for Ole and for the board is increased investment in the squad this summer.
If the board delivers on that, the bare minimum expectation for Ole would be a title challenge lasting until the very end of the season.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I feel selling players is a low bar for a manager. I could do that as well and it is Woodward doing that job anyway.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Nah, what Chelsea are doing is not the "right way". Sacked Lampard, who is arguably a bigger legend at Chelsea than Ole is at United and although the results were not great, they never had massive lows like we did with Ole last season where we genuinely looked like a bottom half team for quite some period of time. Replaced him with Tuchel who got them in 2 cup finals already (funny how he didn't need 5 years and £500m to achieve that, according to some people here it's just impossible to do anything in such a short period of time). They might win the CL today, they might not and end up trophy-less but either way, achieved more than we did in the last 8 years or so with our "he needs 5 years" excuses. Managing United should be a dream job. Big transfer budget and quite literally no expectations apart from TOP 4, winning trophies is clearly not a requirement here. What would get you sacked at all other big clubs is being branded as "progress" and "needs more time" here. Unbelievable.

The "go to work early after defeat" trophy.

To add it to his other trophies:

"top 4 back to back" trophy.
"Harmony and happiness in the club" trophy.
"reaching EL final" trophy.
"Handling press well" trophy.

We are so fecking desperate for a fecking trophy that we’d rather sell our soul and be like the oil rich daddy clubs that we dislike for ruining the game that we’d rather become the one thing that we hate (short term success, spunking money like there’s no tomorrow) to get a taste of success.

Nothing like long term planning and success and a bit of patience.

Desperatation now that we’re even considering defensive borefest Conte, the one thing a lot of people disliked Mou for was the borefest park the bus style of play je played and you want someone who is arguably worse! The desperation is real!

 

[VP89]

We are so fecking desperate for a fecking trophy that we’d rather sell our soul and be like the oil rich daddy clubs that we dislike for ruining the game that we’d rather become the one thing that we hate (short term success, spunking money like there’s no tomorrow) to get a taste of success.

Nothing like long term planning and success and a bit of patience.

Desperatation now that we’re even considering defensive borefest Conte, the one thing a lot of people disliked Mou for was the borefest park the bus style of play je played and you want someone who is arguably worse! The desperation is real!

So where did you make this up from?

 

[dove]

We are so fecking desperate for a fecking trophy that we’d rather sell our soul and be like the oil rich daddy clubs that we dislike for ruining the game that we’d rather become the one thing that we hate (short term success, spunking money like there’s no tomorrow) to get a taste of success.

Nothing like long term planning and success and a bit of patience.

Desperatation now that we’re even considering defensive borefest Conte, the one thing a lot of people disliked Mou for was the borefest park the bus style of play je played and you want someone who is arguably worse! The desperation is real!

It's been proven time and time again that "long term planning" doesn't mean success. Absolute majority of clubs that win stuff are the ones that change the managers quite frequently or they simply don't have to change them as they constantly win trophies (Pep). Also, changing the managers doesn't stop you from winning trophies because that nonsense that the manager needs 4-5 years to implement his style of football and start winning stuff is just monumentally stupid. A manager of Manchester United should absolutely be expected to win something in his first 2 years in charge, no questions about it. If he fails to do it, let's look for someone else who will.

 

[Giggsy13]

Ole should NOT be signing an extension until he sees the club deliver at least two of his top targets this summer. If Sancho and Torres are delivered before the Euros then sign up, otherwise wait it out and make our shithouse owners sweat.

 

[tenpoless]

Long term planning is the new preparing a bid.
Two years is quite long in football.

 

[VP89]

Ole should NOT be signing an extension until he sees the club deliver at least two of his top targets this summer. If Sancho and Torres are delivered before the Euros then sign up, otherwise wait it out and make our shithouse owners sweat.

Don't think they'll be sweating over Ole.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Nah, what Chelsea are doing is not the "right way". Sacked Lampard, who is arguably a bigger legend at Chelsea than Ole is at United and although the results were not great, they never had massive lows like we did with Ole last season where we genuinely looked like a bottom half team for quite some period of time. Replaced him with Tuchel who got them in 2 cup finals already (funny how he didn't need 5 years and £500m to achieve that, according to some people here it's just impossible to do anything in such a short period of time). They might win the CL today, they might not and end up trophy-less but either way, achieved more than we did in the last 8 years or so with our "he needs 5 years" excuses. Managing United should be a dream job. Big transfer budget and quite literally no expectations apart from TOP 4, winning trophies is clearly not a requirement here. What would get you sacked at all other big clubs is being branded as "progress" and "needs more time" here. Unbelievable.

People are just blind in love for Ole.

 

[el3mel]

Klopp made the CL final and lost.
Ended 4th placed in the league that year. Knocked out of both domestic cups very early.

I'm pretty sure Ole would get slated on here for a mirroring season.

Why is the rebuilding point lame? I don't think anyone would actually claim a 10 year rebuild period.

My expectations for Ole and for the board is increased investment in the squad this summer.
If the board delivers on that, the bare minimum expectation for Ole would be a title challenge lasting until the very end of the season.

Reach a bloody CL final first against a Real Madrid team who dominated the competition the previous two years instead of getting knocked out of the group stage because of a shit loss against a Turkish side who was participating in the competition for their first ever time and scored their first ever CL goals and their first ever CL win against United then we can talk about the reaction of the fans by then.

"If the board delivers on that" exactly the point. You can come after the summer and claim the board didn't invest enough and didn't get him the transfers he wanted, and the players who flopped were forced on him, so let's give him more seasons.

 

[tenpoless]

Nah, what Chelsea are doing is not the "right way". Sacked Lampard, who is arguably a bigger legend at Chelsea than Ole is at United and although the results were not great, they never had massive lows like we did with Ole last season where we genuinely looked like a bottom half team for quite some period of time. Replaced him with Tuchel who got them in 2 cup finals already (funny how he didn't need 5 years and £500m to achieve that, according to some people here it's just impossible to do anything in such a short period of time). They might win the CL today, they might not and end up trophy-less but either way, achieved more than we did in the last 8 years or so with our "he needs 5 years" excuses. Managing United should be a dream job. Big transfer budget and quite literally no expectations apart from TOP 4, winning trophies is clearly not a requirement here. What would get you sacked at all other big clubs is being branded as "progress" and "needs more time" here. Unbelievable.

Chelsea doesnt have the chelsea way, that's the difference.

 

[Harold_Giles]

Reach a bloody CL final first against a Real Madrid team who dominated the competition the previous two years instead of getting knocked out of the group stage because of a shit loss against a Turkish side who was participating in the competition for their first ever time and scored their first ever CL goals and their first ever CL win against United then we can talk about the reaction of the fans by then.

"If the board delivers on that" exactly the point. You can come after the summer and claim the board didn't invest enough and didn't get him the transfers he wanted, and the players who flopped were forced on him, so let's give him more seasons.

Why not wait and see what we actually do this summer, instead of being so negative at this moment in time?

Van der Beek is the only transfer some have questioned if he was actually someone that Ole specifically asked for.

 

[el3mel]

Why not wait and see what we actually do this summer, instead of being so negative at this moment in time?

Van der Beek is the only transfer some have questioned if he was actually someone that Ole specifically asked for.

It's not like we have something else to do except to see what will happen anyway. I'm just replying on the two points about Klopp and rebuilding project which don't make sense for me and have been debunked already.

 

[MattofManchester]

Van der Beek is the only transfer some have questioned if he was actually someone that Ole specifically asked for

Ole has already said Van De Beek was scouted for a long period before they moved for him.
The selectiveness to protect their favourites by this fanbase is surreal.

 

[fergies coat]

I'd give him another season. I want a proper title challenge this time. If we don't get that next season then it's time to go.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

I think we'll start next season far stronger than this season, and we will challenge for the title.

If we see a poor start with the same familiar problems, especially set pieces and over reliance on a small group of players, then I will be the first to say it's time for change, but I really believe we will come flying out of the blocks with a proper pre-season prep behind us.

Ole strikes me as an introspective guy and I don't think he will be making excuses for himself. He knows what he got wrong this season and the sting of that final defeat will spur him on to change his approach a little.

 

[R77]

A good, brief write up that articulates my thoughts about Ole (and many of the subjects that get brought up on here) better than I've been able to;

https://onfootball.substack.com/p/solskjaer-has-done-the-job-he-was

 

[united for life]

Do you think Ole got the absolute best out of this squad? Serious question.

would another coach have won the league? No. We reached the europa league final, unfortunately we’ve lost. When I look at what he’s done, good signings, properly man managed players like Shaw, Fred, Greenwood to get the best our of them. Yes he’s done well. At least he’s done enough for not to be sacked. It is pointless to sack him and start all over again. He should get the signings he needs this summer.

 

[Harold_Giles]

A good, brief write up that articulates my thoughts about Ole (and many of the subjects that get brought up on here) better than I've been able to;

https://onfootball.substack.com/p/solskjaer-has-done-the-job-he-was

Seconded

 

[Foxbatt]

Reach a bloody CL final first against a Real Madrid team who dominated the competition the previous two years instead of getting knocked out of the group stage because of a shit loss against a Turkish side who was participating in the competition for their first ever time and scored their first ever CL goals and their first ever CL win against United then we can talk about the reaction of the fans by then.

"If the board delivers on that" exactly the point. You can come after the summer and claim the board didn't invest enough and didn't get him the transfers he wanted, and the players who flopped were forced on him, so let's give him more seasons.

Already the excuses are out. If we don't win, then the board has not supported the manager. If it takes for the best players in the World then I would rather have Potter or Bielsa as their teams play much attractive football than us. Plus they seem to be better coaches too.

 

[dove]

would another coach have won the league? No. We reached the europa league final, unfortunately we’ve lost. When I look at what he’s done, good signings, properly man managed players like Shaw, Fred, Greenwood to get the best our of them. Yes he’s done well. At least he’s done enough for not to be sacked. It is pointless to sack him and start all over again. He should get the signings he needs this summer.

Yea but let's not forget that we were able to reach the EL final just because we crashed out of our CL group.

 

[Tomuś]

Rebuliding job my arse. Has to be the longest transition period ever, 8 years since Fergie with the same excuses and 'we must sign 4 players' summers.

Would maybe make a bit of sense if I hadn't seen Villarreal starting eleven, Leicester winning the league and Chelsea or Spurs reaching UCL finals.

 

[redshaw]

It's quite a knock for Ole and in turn the club that we couldn't win the Europa final, one that can be overcome of course but I think any player for example, wanting to leave their existing club for trophies and United one of the few options, you'd be swapping not winning anything with a slightly less chance and probably still not winning anything. The fact ole couldn't get the job done with the resources available and doubts surrounding him is quite a set back.

The CL exit from a winning position to absolutely fail comically in Turkey. Not taking Fred off before the red card, the set up in Leipzig with 3 at the back and going 2-0 down in the opening minutes.

Despite having 10 years experience he's learning on the job and overall he's done well and exceeded peoples expectations.We could be in a very good spot if Ole keeps learning fast and continues to swap the bad squad players out. I hope he can use the defeat to really focus on winning, there's nothing like getting all the way to a final and losing knowing you had the capabilities to have done much more.

 

[el3mel]

would another coach have won the league? No. We reached the europa league final, unfortunately we’ve lost. When I look at what he’s done, good signings, properly man managed players like Shaw, Fred, Greenwood to get the best our of them. Yes he’s done well. At least he’s done enough for not to be sacked. It is pointless to sack him and start all over again. He should get the signings he needs this summer.

The EL final isn't an achievement. It was pretty much the bare minimum from a team like United when they crash out of CL group.

 

[Foxbatt]

I'd give him another season. I want a proper title challenge this time. If we don't get that next season then it's time to go.

That is a fair view. I would agree with that. But not the excuses that the board did not support him when we do not get all the players associated with United. In that case Moyes could have won the PL, if he got all the players he wanted? He may well have won the PL and the CL.

 

[Idxomer]

The EL final isn't an achievement. It was pretty much the bare minimum from a team like United when they crash out of CL group.

Exactly, Sarri won it a couple of years ago and barely anyone remember that.

 

[He'sRaldo]

would another coach have won the league? No. We reached the europa league final, unfortunately we’ve lost. When I look at what he’s done, good signings, properly man managed players like Shaw, Fred, Greenwood to get the best our of them. Yes he’s done well. At least he’s done enough for not to be sacked. It is pointless to sack him and start all over again. He should get the signings he needs this summer.

The common theme for non Man City teams who have won the league in recent years, is them capitalizing on City having a substandard league campaign. The last campaign for City was considered well below their usual standard and this time around they only got 5 more points, all while scoring less and conceding similar. They didn't even break the 90 point barrier.

If another coach had been given the time and resources Ole has, who's to say they couldn't have capitalized and won the league?

 

[stw2022]

Despite second and the cup final I’m less confident going into each match than probably since the dark days of Moyes.

 

[R77]

Rebuliding job my arse. Has to be the longest transition period ever, 8 years since Fergie with the same excuses and 'we must sign 4 players' summers.

Would maybe make a bit of sense if I hadn't seen Villarreal starting eleven, Leicester winning the league and Chelsea or Spurs reaching UCL finals.

Of course. It's not like most of those eight years saw the club almost get destroyed from within by the owners, an incompetent CEO, or several managers that sacked the staff, destroyed the structure, replaced loads of players with overpaid crud, or maybe even went all bunny boiler on everyone and disrespected the entire history of the place. Lets blame the one bloke who came in and tried to fix the all of it and almost succeeded (at this point) for all of that. Context is irrelevant. Get Conte in I say. Get a couple of pots and burn it all to the ground again. Or maybe that bloke who almost got Brighton relegated, he's obviously Pep mkIII and will really take us places.

Losing to feckin Villarreal in an EL final was massively embarrassing and painful. Move on. Sometimes you have to understand where you came from to know where you are and how to go forward. Very few people could have come in and done what the man has done when you consider the context of the last eight years, Ed fecking Woodward and the rest of it. He has some flaws that he's earned the right to try and improve on. If he fails, yup, time's up is fair.

Spamming the place like sulking children is pointless.

 

[Foxbatt]

Despite second and the cup final I’m less confident going into each match than probably since the dark days of Moyes.

But the Board did not back Moyes. He wanted Fabregas, Bale and Ronaldo. All he got was Fellaini. So Moyes cannot be blamed for not winning anything as the board did not back him.

 

[Offsideagain]

Ole has had many chances, but has not shown any ‘magic’ or nouse recently. Bruno has kept him in a job. The shambles on Wednesday night showed that he is out off his depth managerial wise. Not using the subs and playing Bailly instead of Tuanzebe was a huge error. He should go now.

 

[Tomuś]

Of course. It's not like most of those eight years saw the club almost get destroyed from within by the owners, an incompetent CEO, or several managers that sacked the staff, destroyed the structure, replaced loads of players with overpaid crud, or maybe even went all bunny boiler on everyone and disrespected the entire history of the place. Lets blame the one bloke who came in and tried to fix the all of it and almost succeeded (at this point) for all of that. Context is irrelevant. Get Conte in I say. Get a couple of pots and burn it all to the ground again. Or maybe that bloke who almost got Brighton relegated, he's obviously Pep mkIII and will really take us places.

Losing to feckin Villarreal in an EL final was massively embarrassing and painful. Move on. Sometimes you have to understand where you came from to know where you are and how to go forward. Very few people could have come in and done what the man has done when you consider the context of the last eight years, Ed fecking Woodward and the rest of it. He has some flaws that he's earned the right to try and improve on. If he fails, yup, time's up is fair.

Spamming the place like sulking children is pointless.

Saying nobody would've done any better is intangible. Winning (or rather losing) trophies is.

When are you supposed to evaluate him? Next year will be 'not backed enough' or will you then accept he's not good enough?

 

[Zlaatan]

We are so fecking desperate for a fecking trophy that we’d rather sell our soul and be like the oil rich daddy clubs that we dislike for ruining the game that we’d rather become the one thing that we hate (short term success, spunking money like there’s no tomorrow) to get a taste of success.

Nothing like long term planning and success and a bit of patience.

Desperatation now that we’re even considering defensive borefest Conte, the one thing a lot of people disliked Mou for was the borefest park the bus style of play je played and you want someone who is arguably worse! The desperation is real!

It's absurd to equate going for short term success and spending a lot of money with "selling our soul", we've been spending money like there's no tomorrow for as long as I can remember and haven't had much patience at all since SAF left.

I also don't get why short term success is somehow looked down upon, especially when we haven't won any big trophy for almost a decade. It's not like short term success will stop you from having long term success, or do you think Chelsea are doomed now that they sacked Lampard and got a huge upswing in a short period of time with Tuchel?

 

[Josh 76]

It's absurd to equate going for short term success and spending a lot of money with "selling our soul", we've been spending money like there's no tomorrow for as long as I can remember and haven't had much patience at all since SAF left.

I also don't get why short term success is somehow looked down upon, especially when we haven't won any big trophy for almost a decade. It's not like short term success will stop you from having long term success, or do you think Chelsea are doomed now that they sacked Lampard and got a huge upswing in a short period of time with Tuchel?

I don’t get why everyone looks down on short term success.

if it meant we got Conte in, spent 200m and won the PL, then didn’t win it again for a few years. I would take that now.

 

[R77]

Saying nobody would've done any better is intangible. Winning (or rather losing) trophies is.

When are you supposed to evaluate him? Next year will be 'not backed enough' or will you then accept he's not good enough?

If we scrape top 4 or worse, still have among the worst stats in the league for set pieces, and again lose key games due to things he has direct control of like an unwillingness to rotate or make subs... I'll accept he's not the right fit. Even then it has to depend on who else is available. It has to be the right person.

 

[SAFMUTD]

would another coach have won the league? No. We reached the europa league final, unfortunately we’ve lost. When I look at what he’s done, good signings, properly man managed players like Shaw, Fred, Greenwood to get the best our of them. Yes he’s done well. At least he’s done enough for not to be sacked. It is pointless to sack him and start all over again. He should get the signings he needs this summer.

You didn't answer my question. Do you think he's got out the absolute best of this squad? Is a yes or no question.