Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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For me -
The reason I’m Ole in is not because he is some potential great title winner;

I’m Ole in purely because our squad had needed reshaping (since SAF days) and Ole has done it very well almost like a DOF.

I like the links and potentially adding players like Sancho, Grealish, Rice or Torres just as much as potentially one day getting rid of players like De Gea, Bailly or Martial. I see that potential ability for those things to happen.

I like the changes and the look of his team even if he isn’t the best manager to get the best out of them straight away.

For example- there is a thread about wondering if people would love Conte here - our team maybe short term successful but we would end up with players like young, victor moses, Lukaku and so much more when he eventually leaves.

I feel that beggars can’t exactly be choosers - let the squad keep improving its players and quality and when Ole has taken them as far as he can go then call it a day.
 
The United said:
Of course that is his job but the crazy schedule did not help his job at all.

Look, I am not saying the team and coaches didn't have to take responsibility of it. It would be crazy. But, it is good to realize that it might be one of the things that cost our momentum for the last few games in a row. We usually bounced back pretty quickly this season. That did not happen this time.
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I don't know, I just don't think we are as good as some people here think we are. This second place is pure smoke we are so low in points that we could had been 4th or 5th any other given season.

I dont feel confident at all that we are improving, nor that this was just bad luck and our momentum taken away. I keep seeing the same mistakes over and over again, we don't know how to play out from the back when we are pressured, even against average teams and we are the worst team in the league at defending set pieces.

Those two are very clear and specific coaching problems that have been around for almost 3 years now without solution, and to solve them we don't need new players, we can bring Sancho, Varane, Oblak, or whoever but that issues won't be solved without proper coaching and I just kind of lost hope that this coaching team can solve actually solve it.
 
Last year against Sevilla we had Ighalo, Dan James, Mata, Lingard, Matic, Scott on the bench. Against Villarreal we had Amad, Dan James, Mata, VDB, Matic and Fred. Similar benches, and its not good enough, i agree.

But against Sevilla Ole waited until minute 87 to make a sub, and we were down 2-1. By this time Lopetengui had made 4 subs. Against Villarreal he waited until minute 100 to make a shock, pointless sub, while Emery had already made 5 subs.

Are we really going to say that Sevilla and Villarreal had more depth than us? Absolutely not. But they had two better managers than Ole. Managers that know how to use the whole squad properly, and to enter a final with a proper game plan.
 
Bebestation said:
For me -
The reason I’m Ole in is not because he is some potential great title winner;

I’m Ole in purely because our squad had needed reshaping (since SAF days) and Ole has done it very well almost like a DOF.

I like the links and potentially adding players like Sancho, Grealish, Rice or Torres just as much as potentially one day getting rid of players like De Gea, Bailly or Martial. I see that potential ability for those things to happen.

I like the changes and the look of his team even if he isn’t the best manager to get the best out of them straight away.

For example- there is a thread about wondering if people would love Conte here - our team maybe short term successful but we would end up with players like young, victor moses, Lukaku and so much more when he eventually leaves.

I feel that beggars can’t exactly be choosers - let the squad keep improving its players and quality and when Ole has taken them as far as he can go then call it a day.
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Serious question do you think if we had any other manager we wouldn't be targeting players like Sancho, Grealish, Rice or Torres? I mean those players are targeted by pretty much any top team in England. They're not exactly hidden talents.

I get the value of Ole stabilizing the club after Mourinho's mess but that was 2 and a half years ago it's time to move on and demand something else besides a happy squad.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Serious question do you think if we had any other manager we wouldn't be targeting players like Sancho, Grealish, Rice or Torres? I mean those players are targeted by pretty much any top team in England. They're not exactly hidden talents.

I get the value of Ole stabilizing the club after Mourinho's mess but that was 2 and a half years ago it's time to move on and demand something else besides a happy squad.
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Do you see Conte targeting those players? I don’t. More importantly do you see them shifting out our deadwood like Ole has done? Lingard would be playing for Brendan Rodgers or Pochettino. Pochettino would have loved a big striker like Lukaku (osvaldo,llorente, Kane) Both would have loved Smalling.
Do you think Pochettino would have improved Shaw as much as Ole has or would he have used young or even a new LB whipping balls in to Lukaku?

One of the best examples I can give is possibly Van de beek.

I personally don’t think Ole knows how to use him or tactically manage him (because I view him as a shadow striker like Muller; first goal v crystal palace) & I have been wondering how he might be for us one day under a different manager.
I wouldn’t write him off yet - and even though Ole might not get the best out of him; I was happy like most of the fans here last summer that he joined a United squad growing in strength and a bit more quality.

I want that to continue happening. I want the experience of Cavani or even one day Trippier, just as much as I want youngsters like Amad, Greenwood and Garner to get or maintain their chances. I want more players to join us with this ‘individual quality’ we rely on to get us it out of games. If that is Ole’s tactic then I can be a bit patient about not winning trophies and let someone else think about that for us as a future manager once we grow back in to having the type and quality of players that used to play for us.
 
When he got the job I said people in two years will see how average he is. But I am wrong, people still cant see that because they are blinded with nostalgic bs.
 
Big season ahead. If he doesn't get off to a flyer he'll join Dave Sexton in the "ex-United managers without a trophy" bin
 
Bebestation said:
Do you see Conte targeting those players? I don’t.
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First I do think Conte would be interested in most of them, and second of all pointing out one single manager that wouldnt to make a case for Ole is kind of silly. I ask again do we really need Ole to be interested in the most promising young players in the world?

Bebestation said:
More importantly do you see them shifting out our deadwood like Ole has done? Lingard would be playing for Brendan Rodgers or Pochettino. Pochettino would have loved a big striker like Lukaku (osvaldo,llorente, Kane) Both would have loved Smalling.
Do you think Pochettino would have improved Shaw as much as Ole has or would he have used young or even a new LB whipping balls in to Lukaku?
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Every manager gets rid of deadwood, just as Mourinho and LVG did before Ole, it's just a narrative set here to praise Ole for selling players that were underperforming. Truth is there is no merit in that every manager renew their squad, I mean LITERALLY every single manager.

Bebestation said:
One of the best examples I can give is possibly Van de beek.

I personally don’t think Ole knows how to use him or tactically manage him (because I view him as a shadow striker like Muller; first goal v crystal palace) & I have been wondering how he might be for us one day under a different manager.
I wouldn’t write him off yet - and even though Ole might not get the best out of him; I was happy like most of the fans here last summer that he joined a United squad growing in strength and a bit more quality.

I want that to continue happening. I want the experience of Cavani or even one day Trippier, just as much as I want youngsters like Amad, Greenwood and Garner to get or maintain their chances. I want more players to join us with this ‘individual quality’ we rely on to get us it out of games. If that is Ole’s tactic then I can be a bit patient about not winning trophies and let someone else think about that for us as a future manager once we grow back in to having the type and quality of players that used to play for us.
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That's really really convenient, so basically Ole is building towards something great that somebody else will benefit from so he should be given time and funds and I guess that if the next managers fail that'll be on him and not Ole.

Pure bollocks mate, Ole is not and should not be building towards anyone's future, he should be working towards our success. Success that he hasn't delivered after 2 and a half years, this rebuilding bullshit is just an excuse to settle for less because we are "rebuilding". Rebuilds take 1 year in top clubs not freaking 3 years and keep counting.

Truth is Ole is nothing special, he's a nice lad but not a winner people has mix feelings for him because his time as a player but time is running against him and eventually his "rebuilding" credit will run out. How more time does he needs before we can actually start demanding for results?
 
Blood hell. I don't recognise our fans any more. A great 2nd place in the league and lose a European final on penalties and you lots are crying as if we we were Sheffield United. If the current membership of the Caf were fans in 1974 we wouldn't have got 10k to OT much less 57k. Ole has been a huge upgrade on every post-SAF manager and he has done more than enough to get at least another season. Which he will get.

27 April 1974Manchester CityH0–156,996
 
Finals are played to be won. And for that you must be prepared. Know everything about thst game. Ole's approach is like it is like every other game. And that is why he is outsmarted in those games. I don't think that he had any kind of special plan. "Here are my best 11. Go and enjoy."
He is not good enough to manage big club. How many proof people need?
 
SAFMUTD said:
First I do think Conte would be interested in most of them, and second of all pointing out one single manager that wouldnt to make a case for Ole is kind of silly. I ask again do we really need Ole to be interested in the most promising young players in the world?


Every manager gets rid of deadwood, just as Mourinho and LVG did before Ole, it's just a narrative set here to praise Ole for selling players that were underperforming. Truth is there is no merit in that every manager renew their squad, I mean LITERALLY every single manager.


That's really really convenient, so basically Ole is building towards something great that somebody else will benefit from so he should be given time and funds and I guess that if the next managers fail that'll be on him and not Ole.

Pure bollocks mate, Ole is not and should not be building towards anyone's future, he should be working towards our success. Success that he hasn't delivered after 2 and a half years, this rebuilding bullshit is just an excuse to settle for less because we are "rebuilding". Rebuilds take 1 year in top clubs not freaking 3 years and keep counting.

Truth is Ole is nothing special, he's a nice lad but not a winner people has mix feelings for him because his time as a player but time is running against him and eventually his "rebuilding" credit will run out. How more time does he needs before we can actually start demanding for results?
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I mean if you think any manager in the world would do better with the squad Jose or LVG left over compared to what they could achieve with the squad Ole left over then so be it.

I value Ole’s influence on improving the squad and the atmosphere around it but I understand that this by itself is not good enough for a club of our height.

The fact is even though he lost the Europa league final - you can’t sack a manager who came second in the league and whether we like it or not - he has earned his 3rd season.

There’s every chance he doesn’t achieve the expectations of his 3rd season (from buying big cost players like Sancho and Rice) and he will be done here as a manager. Every loss in a CL match, FA Cup or carabao cup feels worse next year; but he has still earned the right to managing it. Whilst that happens I can appreciate his ability to improve the squad further with some potential good transfers and see if he has taken as far as he can take us.
 
Bebestation said:
I mean if you think any manager in the world would do better with the squad Jose or LVG left over compared to what they could achieve with the squad Ole left over then so be it.

I value Ole’s influence on improving the squad and the atmosphere around it but I understand that this by itself is not good enough for a club of our height.

The fact is even though he lost the Europa league final - you can’t sack a manager who came second in the league and whether we like it or not - he has earned his 3rd season.

There’s every chance he doesn’t achieve the expectations of his 3rd season (from buying big cost players like Sancho and Rice) and he will be done here as a manager. Every loss in a CL match, FA Cup or carabao cup feels worse next year; but he has still earned the right to managing it. Whilst that happens I can appreciate his ability to improve the squad further with some potential good transfers and see if he has taken as far as he can take us.
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I think we can and we should change managers, no matter if you end second. Besides results there's also the eye test, do we really seem like a team that's about to click? I don't think so.

Even being second "comfortably" this year I don't think anybody is expecting us to achieve the same next year. Why? Because they know we were second because Liverpool and Chelsea were poor.

Common sense says they won't be as poor next season so we'll need much more just to stay as second.

Regarding the title let's be honest we should just forget about it. City has a better squad and a world-class manager, even if we managed to match them on squad quality the distance between our respective coaching quality is worlds apart.

The way I see it there's two ways we can get the title, we either break the market and get seriously world-class players in every single line. I mean Lewandowski, Mbappe, Marquinhos, Kimmich etc quality I mean building a squad that it's ridiculously good above in quality than any other one so any tactics would be upset by individual qualiry. Which frankly seems highly unlikely or we get a revolutionary manager, the next big thing in managers the new Pep, the new Klopp or whatever to make this team something special, someone who can develop a new platform for players to develop, grow and perform better than the sum of the parts.

So long story short just won't happen, either Pep goes away or we get a revolutionary manager, but if things stays the same there's no chance.
 
I actually think we have already seen the peak of this United side. End of last season and beginning of this season was the peak. I can’t see us beating that form but I hope I’m wrong.

It’s worrying that the bar is seemingly well under 80 points. Our club has the resources to get over 80 points in well into his reign now. Next season could be a wake up call if we fail to get 80 get again. We’ll be battling for 4th.
 
I take back calling him an average manager. I should have never said it, Emre is an average manager who outclassed him. He is below that level.
 
It's a condensed season, no pre season , let's see how transfer window goes, and then look again, changing the manager could put us back another few years.
 
Cast5 said:
Horrendous tactics absolutely dominating the game and losing the game on pens? Give your head a wobble.
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Not being able to break down teams that sit back is bad coaching. And we are terrible at it. Even our goal was pure fluke.
 
Alright folks, I for one have been very quiet on this forum all season.
Being one of the biggest supporters of Ole, I did hold back this season particularly as it was time I only backed him any further based on merit. Hence, I wanted to judge him over the course of the whole season.

Conclusion: Ole out. For sure.

It all started when Ole supremely messed up our CL group stage. As if losing to a Turkish side wasn’t enough embarrassment, the Fred debacle against Leipzig still haunts me to this day and it’s one of the main reasons I have had a tough time ever him a chance again.

Anyways, then we somehow had an amazing run in the league and went 1st, so I decided okay yes he’s still growing into this job and deserves another chance.
But, what’s even more, or atleast equally as infuriating, compared to the whole CL debacle, is the fact that his management, or a lack of, again literally handed over the league to city.
What’s really frustrating about this whole reason for me is that even after our mess up against teams like Sheffield and West Brom for instance, I personally think we were somehow still in the race because the season is long and turns out I might’ve partially been right now seeing city’s most recent run of results.
Which could’ve allowed us back into contention had we kept up.
I mean I would’ve been fine if we still would’ve lost but now the narrative is more about how we barely improved on last season points wise, and not how we barely missed out to city on winning the title.

As for todays final, I am actually glad in a weird way about the way we lost today. It’s an embarrassment and a much needed wake up call to most importantly, our owners and the board room. While we fans do see and realize so much, it’s the decision makers who need to prepare for next season. A season where ool and Chelsea will be much much stronger.

And if I was to share just my two (really frustrating) cents about the match today, well here goes. Regardless of our bench being weak, a far more inferior team had the maturity to bring on even more inferior players to their already inferior starters, just to keep up the tempo. While we who signed some of our bench players for 15-40 million pounds, were too embarrassed to even bring them on for a few minutes!!!
Considering our first substitution was after the 100th minute anyways, the fact that we subbed one of our best performers first today, is a whole other topic.

As for Ole, out of respect of tarnishing his legacy any further, it’s time we end our relationship. Judging from Mou’s third season, it doesn’t take long for that to happen.
Specially a manager like Ole, whose not even as accomplished as Mourinho was to begin with, and will already have a tough time saving his coaching career from here on out.

For all you Ole supporters out there, if there is any single game you needed to convince you of all his weaknesses at the same time, this was it.
Specially at such a conclusive time when not only was this current season coming to an end, but also Ole’s personal tenure with the club reaching a significant moment.
A moment for which many of us fans were waiting to hold him accountable to based on his success so far.

I would personally try to go and get Zidane at this moment since he’s apparently available now and give this squad and any new funds to him. He has a much better chance of taking us forward.
 
Cast5 said:
Horrendous tactics absolutely dominating the game and losing the game on pens? Give your head a wobble.
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Who dominated the game? Us? Yes the second half, so thats 45 minutes out of 120. For the last 30 minutes we did nothing, perhaps because the players were tired. Oh wait he had 5 subs and yet he did one in the last 10 minutes.
 
led_scholes said:
Who dominated the game? Us? Yes the second half, so thats 45 minutes out of 120. For the last 30 minutes we did nothing, perhaps because the players were tired. Oh wait he had 5 subs and yet he did one in the last 10 minutes.
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Who should he have brought on?
 
Love the guy but yesterday was a test and he failed to pass it. The set-piece goal, no substitutions and Mason being the first to go off were shambolic decisions. Won't attack him for the de Gea move as that would be a bit weird.

Where do we go from here? Well, he certainly will not be sacked, but I hope that he studies this final for a long time and learns from it. I will never advocate for him to go immediately as we can play great football at times, but I'm afraid he just lacks that extra bit of magic in the biggest moments.
 
Cast5 said:
In what way did emre outclass him?
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Agree , wasnt outclassed, that little bit of luck you need in finals, semis etc has eluded him, did Roger's outclass Chelsea manager . Casper Won the FA cup for them . It's that little bit u get on day, Emre got sack from Arsenal.
 
Cast5 said:
Horrendous tactics absolutely dominating the game and losing the game on pens? Give your head a wobble.
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Dominating the game and only creating a single soring chance is not dominating the game. You should actually give yout head a wobble.

He's right, our tactics when going forward were utter shit and don't tell me it's the players.

Ole's done an average job so far but in every game where there is a bit of pressure we play worse than we played under Moyes.

Anyway, they'll give him next season and then sack him for achieving nothing, basically proving they gave 4 seasons to a manager that achieved feck all in the game.

Yes he cleared up the squad and all that, but any half blind football man should have done that. Other than that it's horrendeus tactics, bad game management, 0 balls like he's a fecking kid or something, doing jack shit on the bench, shit subs and not benching players when they play jack shit.

Other than clearing up the squad and being carried by Bruno this season and getting a penalty for absolutely everything, where is the pogress?
 
Diabovermelho said:
Last year against Sevilla we had Ighalo, Dan James, Mata, Lingard, Matic, Scott on the bench. Against Villarreal we had Amad, Dan James, Mata, VDB, Matic and Fred. Similar benches, and its not good enough, i agree.

But against Sevilla Ole waited until minute 87 to make a sub, and we were down 2-1. By this time Lopetengui had made 4 subs. Against Villarreal he waited until minute 100 to make a shock, pointless sub, while Emery had already made 5 subs.

Are we really going to say that Sevilla and Villarreal had more depth than us? Absolutely not. But they had two better managers than Ole. Managers that know how to use the whole squad properly, and to enter a final with a proper game plan.
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Do you honestly think Emery is the better manager?
 
Cast5 said:
Who should he have brought on?
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In the first place he should have gone with McFred, because that would have allowed him to have either Rashford or Greenwood in the bench to sub in. Still, he could have brought James for Rashford (who had stopped running after the hour mark), Telles for Shaw, Diallo for Greenwood.
 
Cast5 said:
In what way did emre outclass him?
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In every way, he was a step ahead of him, planned his game very well and knew exactly how to win the game or drag it to penalties, nullified his entire superior squad. We had only 2 shots on target in 120 min, let that sink in.
 
Cast5 said:
What a load of mythical shite, go and watch Goldbridge the forest fan, you’re clueless.
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Are you watching our games or just come to this place afterwards to have a go at posters? Hardly mythical that we struggle heavily against deep defending teams is it.
 
led_scholes said:
In the first place he should have gone with McFred, because that would have allowed him to have either Rashford or Greenwood in the bench to sub in. Still, he could have brought James for Rashford (who had stopped running after the hour mark), Telles for Shaw, Diallo for Greenwood.
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Fred wasn't fit. Otherwise he'd have started.
 
We have players on the bench that would easily start in Villareal's team. Yet his fanboys say "who would he bring on " :lol:. They had Foyth, Albiol and Capoue in their starting 11 ffs :lol:. Why are people so blind to see even Emre is a better manager than him?
 
Nice guy, great at man management - I trust him with the rebuild of the squad.
However, I don't have confidence that we will get back to winning ways while he is still manager - losing cup competitions has become a habit now.
 
Think next season is going to be a real struggle for United. Cant see us majorly backed in the market.

Concerning Ole, his big chance and he dropped it. He looked like a bag of nerves on the side line.
 
Giggsyking said:
We have players on the bench that would easily start in Villareal's team. Yet his fanboys say "who would he bring on " :lol:. They had Foyth, Albiol and Capoue in their starting 11 ffs :lol:. Why are people so blind to see even Emre is a better manager than him?
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It's just mental, as if Emery and every single other manager in the world has a bench of world class players. Sometimes you have to sub in players who are maybe a bit lesser quality but they simply have fresh legs or of course you can make some tactical changes. Our in game management is just baffling. I honestly don't think Ole should even bother turning up for games, could just watch it from home as he quite literally does nothing anyway apart from watching the tv on his own screen. Waiting 100 mins for the first sub and then making another 2 subs at the last minute simply for them to take penalties is just mind boggling. I have never seen anything like it from any other manager and Ole does it every single week.
 
Wibble said:
Blood hell. I don't recognise our fans any more. A great 2nd place in the league and lose a European final on penalties and you lots are crying as if we we were Sheffield United. If the current membership of the Caf were fans in 1974 we wouldn't have got 10k to OT much less 57k. Ole has been a huge upgrade on every post-SAF manager and he has done more than enough to get at least another season. Which he will get.

27 April 1974Manchester CityH0–156,996
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While I totally get your point and sort of agree with you, you can really call it a GREAT second place in the league? While city dominate and play in a Champions league final on the weekend for the first time in their history.
Liverpool have won the champions league and premier league in the last three years.
I think it’s fair enough people are fed up at this point even if it makes them a little spoilt. I don’t think it’s purely because we lost one game.. it’s a build up, We totally bottled it last night, it was a horrible showing against a team 7th in LA LIGA. even if you could consider Ole as doing a good job (and I have always been pro ole btw and still am) to play that badly in a final against that team is pretty sad, I felt for the fans who travelled to Poland to watch them put on that display. 3 shots the whole game? The game management was horrible, it’s just not ok at that point. It has to be better than this at this point, with those players.

I agree with you though, he will be here next season and I think they will back him in the transfer window, so next season is really going to be his biggest one, I think he goes if we don’t win anything. Can’t believe how many posters I’m seeing that want conte either. No thanks.

here’s to hoping ole gets good backing and can really push on next season and get us back playing good football consistently with some pattern to our play, not just relying on individual brilliance and moments. I really want him to win something here.

He really has to be ruthless in the transfer market this summer, possibly sell some of our bigger names to raise funds (pogba, martial) let’s hope he has the balls.

its gone past being reactionary now.
 
@SAFMUTD

SAFMUTD said:
I think the problem is Ole is not a strategic coach, he's a man managment coach. He cant "afford" to upset any of the best players, he doesnt have the balls to take Rashford or Bruno out, he wont do a thing that compromises the atmosphere of the dressing room.

Greenwood was having a good game and Rashford had his worse game in a long long time, still he subs Greenwood.

He's the type of manager that puts the best players out, works on them being happy and hopes that enough to produce performances and results.
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I feel like you understand here.

Ole is a man management coach not a strategic coach.

The difference I believe is that so was SAF and every other manager we hired after him had been a strategic coach.
From Moyes’s need of Fellaini and long ball football to Van Gaal’s decision to sell half the squad in Nani, RVP and Rafael etc in a season so that the squad is purely of his ethos or philosophy of possession football. Then Mourinho who is the complete opposite of everything Van Gaal plays and likes the different type of players - going from possession football to a player like Lukaku who can’t control a ball. Buying Sanchez when we already have Rashford and Martial fighting for the same position etc

It was changing from one style of management every 3 years with such varying tactics and such toxicity ranging from our manager to players to our board and fans. Going from a manager like SAF who was a mix of a DOF/football manager of the club - we have started to get our feet back a bit when we find a similar ethos type manager (even if he is no where near as good).

I think this period of man management football has been really been good for us to get our ability back, some good players playing for us, that name of United being a bit cool again to target players like Sancho or Grealish etc whilst they get to play with players like Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Maguire, Greenwood etc if they decided to join us.

I just personally think the man management type of coach is quite rare to find after 20 years of relying on it and we should get the benefits of his time here until we can. I feel like Ole and his man management of the club has a whole has helped turn a United that we’re suffering post SAF retirement as our man manaGer of the club for 20 years - to the new generation of football that need to potential play good strategic football under a good strategic coach in the future to be successful.

As I said, I can be patient one more year with the benefits of man management football before we turn around and realize we got a good bunch of players that are capable higher by hiring a strategic manager.
 
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Giggsyking said:
We have players on the bench that would easily start in Villareal's team. Yet his fanboys say "who would he bring on " :lol:. They had Foyth, Albiol and Capoue in their starting 11 ffs :lol:. Why are people so blind to see even Emre is a better manager than him?
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:lol::lol: this. Excuses, excuses, excuses....
 
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