No need to apologise, I hadn't seen a breakdown like that so I appreciate you posting it.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I will never not want this to be posted. Moreover, I always want this to be posted.
The big spending scheme was created and sold to these managers by Woodward and the united board. LVG did hand more debuts to youth players than Solskjaer and Mourinho. Solskjaer has shown to be almost just as pragmatic as Mourinho when it comes to trusting and actually young players but the club has certainly changed it's transfer policy to look more towards the future. LVG gave us Rashford, Lingard and Martial, among a slew of others of course who didn't cut it but the were given chances
I don’t understand your point at all. The club just, «got good» the exact minute OGS took charge? Happy coincidence type situation?
Mourinho obviously because of the trophies. Even if we don't win any this season I'd pick Ole over Mou but Mourinho's achievement with us outweighs that of Ole's. For now
Not sure how you can say this with a straight face. We enjoyed the wins at the time but we’d all happily give them up to avoid the Mourinho fallout that happened the season after.
I don't know how this relates with what I said
There’s a still a section of nutters but they’re running out of reasons to want him gone, that hasn’t stopped some of them moving the goalposts though.
In fact there’s a thread calling them out from half time of the Roma game.
How can Mourinho be the better manager because he won some trophies? He destroyed the club in the process.
Any day of the week. I rather have no trophy Ole than EL Jose in charge. It is not like he won the League or CL either. Same for LVG
How can Ole be the better manager because he rebuilt the club? He's rebuilt the club and yet Mourinho's achievement outweighs his. This is not an argument you can easily win. And I'm sure nobody that says Mourinho is better wants him back here over Ole.
Ole has built the better squad and better play style but Mourinho has achieved more. So as of now anybody saying Mou or Ole is better is subjective. It becomes fact in Ole's favour if we win the EL
But by saying this you're effectively saying a manager that won trophies is better than one that hasn't, so Arteta, Di Matteo, Ranieri, Rodgers, Martinez, McLaren etc.
Big Sam would probably win a trophy if he got the City job but would that be down to him or the players? There's a bunch of managers that have won things but the list of managers who have built a successful team from a dumpster fire is incredibly small.
LVG won a trophy and I didn't say he was better than Ole. Mourinho's record with us is 6th, league cup and a Europa League trophy in his first season. 2nd and an FA cup final in his second season. This I think is arguably better than Ole's current record of 3rd in his first season, 2nd and a Europa league final in the second season(as it stands)
Now if you want to add other factors like squad building, squad harmony and style of play then Ole takes the win. But in football the most important thing is the results and Mourinho currently got more than Ole currently even if it's not by much But like I said that could easily change by the end of the season. If we win the EL and secure second place then Ole is objectively the better manager. As of now, who is better than who is just based on how you rate achievements
Look at this record. Saying one is better than the other imo is completely subjective right now
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It's funny you say this because this squad Ole has built is primarily made up of players that Jose just simply didn't rate - Pogba, Martial he wanted sold. Rashford and McTominay were squad players in his ideal team. Fred and Shaw were borderline joke figures among the fanbase when Ole took over. And Jose is on record as saying that Greenwood would have had no role under him the season he left.
By contrast, all the players Jose rated and used have either been sidelined or sold. Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Herrera, Valencia, Young, Rojo, Smalling, Fellaini, Jones, and most recently DDG.
So I personally think it's an even better achievement from Ole to get us to where we are right now with only 3 or 4 first team signings and the vast majority of the players being the ones that were already here, and it points to his ability as a manager being pretty damn good when you consider that all of those players I mentioned were widely being seen as being part of the worst Utd side since the PL.began at the start of last season.
Ole will have us 2nd and give us an EL in the same season. That alone is better than both of Jose's seasons. He didn't sacrifice the league to the extent that we finished 6th for the EL and he has us on pace to potentially eclipse Jose's points tally for that 2nd place (though admittedly, that would require us to win every league game from here on out, which will be tough)LVG won a trophy and I didn't say he was better than Ole. Mourinho's record with us is 6th, league cup and a Europa League trophy in his first season. 2nd and an FA cup final in his second season. This I think is arguably better than Ole's current record of 3rd in his first season, 2nd and a Europa league final in the second season(as it stands)
Now if you want to add other factors like squad building, squad harmony and style of play then Ole takes the win. But in football the most important thing is the results and Mourinho currently got more than Ole currently even if it's not by much But like I said that could easily change by the end of the season. If we win the EL and secure second place then Ole is objectively the better manager. As of now, who is better than who is just based on how you rate achievements
Look at this record. Saying one is better than the other imo is completely subjective right now
This is why I'm saying it's subjective to say Ole is better. With OGS you can't just post the stats. There's alot of explaining to do. When or if we come second and win the EL Its a fact Ogs is the better manager
Yes that's what I said
Despite my reservations and the fact that I'm still not entirely confident that he is the man to take us back to the top, he's easily the best manager since Fergie left. It's not just about cold hard facts and how many trophies this manager has won over the other (of course they are important), but it's just nice to have a manager who doesn't bring down the whole mood of the club and fanbase. Despite what you may think of him, he's a man who puts the club first above everything, which was not the case for Jose.
And I like his intentions. The football isn't always great, we may start off slow and lose some games where you think to yourself "how the feck did we lost against those", but for me, he always has a positive mindset. As I said, it doesn't always work and he deserves criticism for it, but I never get the sense it's because he went into the game with a negative attitude, generally speaking. Also, when we do go behind you no longer think to yourself "well, that's the end of that then". Our ability to salvage a game and come from behind is incredible.
And I like his intentions. The football isn't always great, we may start off slow and lose some games where you think to yourself "how the feck did we lost against those", but for me, he always has a positive mindset. As I said, it doesn't always work and he deserves criticism for it, but I never get the sense it's because he went into the game with a negative attitude, generally speaking. Also, when we do go behind you no longer think to yourself "well, that's the end of that then". Our ability to salvage a game and come from behind is incredible.
A very good read this. While I disagree you can make excuses for so many exits in a row, to not see there has been mitigating circumstances is just ignorant.
That was interesting and made good points that quite often get overlooked in the disappointment after the games.
Enjoyed that, people forget we were quite unlucky in some of those games for various reasons. Looks like we broke the curse now and hopefully we can go all the way.
Curses, hoodoos... It's all bollox
Even that mentality jibe was just lazy analysis. There was absolutely no pattern to be derived apart from being on the wrong end of the result.
Yeah that’s fairCurses, hoodoos... It's all bollox
Even that mentality jibe was just lazy analysis. There was absolutely no pattern to be derived apart from being on the wrong end of the result.
football loves to follow a narrative though no matter how lazy and contrived.Since it's question form, shouldn't the verb 'to reflect' be in simple form 'reflect' and not 'reflected'?
Well yeah it's a typo.
Well, color me unimpressed. Not a very promising lead.
Ok mate
Pick up a newspaper, they're littered with typos. It's a curse of the modern age.
Also there's always the chance that Abdel Beheri's first language isn't english.
See, that's the thing - my first language isn't English either. That's why I'm all the more apprehensive about being exposed to the corrupting influence of the unlettered.Ok mate
Pick up a newspaper, they're littered with typos. It's a curse of the modern age.
Also there's always the chance that Abdel Beheri's first language isn't english.
Newspapers might have been riddled with typos in 'the modern age', but alas, we live in a postmodern age and this is an online edition, which can be edited without much effort.
Have you even looked at the link? This isn't an online edition of a newspaper. It's on a blog type site.
But even if it was, in that case the headlines aren't written by the author, they are written by the editor.
You can be precious all you want but typos happen, especially on the internet, and don't invalidate the analysis.
Out of all the managers we’ve had since Sir Alex, I think we’ve made the most progress under Ole.
This is actually the first time where I feel like we’re headed somewhere. I know we’ve won cup titles with the other managers but looking at the team play, you can tell we’re much quicker and sharper(crisp) going forward than before. We score a lot of goals and we’re not leaking goals on the other end either. The overall harmony of the team is the best it’s ever been since Fergie as well.
If we invest wisely this summer, I think we can put up a much better fight for the league title and other cup titles.
This is actually the first time where I feel like we’re headed somewhere. I know we’ve won cup titles with the other managers but looking at the team play, you can tell we’re much quicker and sharper(crisp) going forward than before. We score a lot of goals and we’re not leaking goals on the other end either. The overall harmony of the team is the best it’s ever been since Fergie as well.
If we invest wisely this summer, I think we can put up a much better fight for the league title and other cup titles.
LVG won a trophy and I didn't say he was better than Ole. Mourinho's record with us is 6th, league cup and a Europa League trophy in his first season. 2nd and an FA cup final in his second season. This I think is arguably better than Ole's current record of 3rd in his first season, 2nd and a Europa league final in the second season(as it stands)
Now if you want to add other factors like squad building, squad harmony and style of play then Ole takes the win. But in football the most important thing is the results and Mourinho currently got more than Ole currently even if it's not by much But like I said that could easily change by the end of the season. If we win the EL and secure second place then Ole is objectively the better manager. As of now, who is better than who is just based on how you rate achievements
Look at this record. Saying one is better than the other imo is completely subjective right now
It's tight between Jose and Ole as of now because Jose got the silverware despite only having 18months of decent form. But the difference with Jose and Ole is that right now, we seem to be improving and continuing to progress moving forward, as of now we don't know where Ole's ceiling is. It became obvious pretty quickly that Jose was down and out. As for LVG, he shouldn't even be in the dicussion, he wasn't as bad as Moyes, but feck me was he bad.
That shouldn't make it any harder to edit.
As for editors writing headlines, in my experience that's never the case, unless they are writing the article themselves, or have a problem with the title.
My cognitive economy heuristic is - never read an article with an unlettered title. I'm bound to miss out on some Pulitzer content one of these days, but I'm sure it will serve me well in general.
Out records under Ferguson as I recall was in the 02/03 and treble-season where we both seasons scored about 130 goals in 62 or 63 matches. But I dont think we ever were over 125 goals in any other season so it's impressive
I never said it was harder to edit, but mistakes happen and some slip through the net.
Your experience of what, by the way?
I've heard numerous journalists complain about getting grief over a headline that doesn't accurately depict the content of the story. They all say they don't write them, it's the editor who does that and they're not even written in english anyway. They're generally written in that bizarre headlinese to save on space.
I'm sorry, but you sound pedantic to a fault. Cognitive economy heuristic? Give me a break.
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My experience working at an online newspaper. Never had such a hands on editor, though I'm sure there must be some such. If you're getting stitched up like that constantly though, you should resign.
All of that's beside the point. The self correct mechanism online is such that it doesn't take more than three minutes for someone to correct what you wrote if you've made a typo (by complaining in the comment section). I can't imagine it's any different for a blog. He's got friends, people who read what he wrote. At least get the lead right, and you have hours to correct it even if you fail at first. It's just poor form. There's no excuse, he should be lashed publicly.
When comparing Mourinho and Ole, I guess the main thing is that after 144 games, Mourinho got sacked, while Ole´s position after 144 games is stronger than ever.
Who on earth was the best then?
I am not saying everything has been perfect but it is pretty slim pickings otherwise. Jose won a couple of trophies at the cost of nearly making us unable to be competitive for the next 3 or so years. Van Gaal?
Van Gaal was the one with an idea of how we should play football. You can disagree with the idea but at least he had one.
Jose obviously won the most trophies.
Ole so far gets the trophy for creating the most harmonious dressing room. Not to diminish that accomplishment but he needs to win something or show us how this team plays cause at times I simply cannot tell.
Jose obviously won the most trophies.
Ole so far gets the trophy for creating the most harmonious dressing room. Not to diminish that accomplishment but he needs to win something or show us how this team plays cause at times I simply cannot tell.
You really must have been sickened with our 2nd half performance against Roma.
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