Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Born2Lose]

Had to do a double take yesterday when I saw we'd only lost 4 games all season in the league. Quite impressive considering two of those were at the very start of the season against Spurs and Palace.

 

[theklr]

My favorite RedCafe "meme" has to be the idea that Ole could be such a great manager if he only started to make one or two subs at the 60 minute mark. He's doing well besides that of course, but the lack of subs at that particular time means that he is clueless.

Especially when you consider United has the most goals from subs in all of PL...

 

[OleBoiii]

Especially when you consider United has the most goals from subs in all of PL...

And the most comebacks.

 

[horsechoker]

Had to do a double take yesterday when I saw we'd only lost 4 games all season in the league. Quite impressive considering two of those were at the very start of the season against Spurs and Palace.

Looks like we weren't, *puts on sunglasses* born, to lose.

 

[Dembeza]

I’m sure this has been mentioned somewhere but the fact the Leeds changed their tactics and played more pragmatic speaks volume about the progress we have made and how the opposition manager views our attacking force.

Yesterday we controlled the game very well. For the first time in soo many years I watch the team without fear of losing, even when we are trailing. When last have we felt this way?

It’s too early to say that teams are afraid to play us but what I will say is that we aren’t pushovers who the small teams raise their games, give us problems and walk away with 3 points.

The reason why we have soo many draws is teams are afraid to go for a win in the the last minutes of the game like they used to because they know we are lethal on the counter, so they close shop and go for a draw. This is also why we hardly lose because teams can’t have a go at us because they are going to be punished.

I am not an Ole fan but this man has made United to be feared again and also captured hearts at it. I love watching us play nowadays, my passion for football is back and for that I will have Ole’s back even during the rough patches.

 

[Eriku]

So us drawing to a team that beat City with 10 men is now considered pathetic?

You lot have the weirdest goal posts.

 

[b82REZ]

Draw 0-0 and the crybabies are back. Some are even demanding we put Donny on the right.
Brilliant.
Honestly guys, give yer heads a wobble.

Waaah, we've not won 12-0 waaah.

Waah, even though Its obvious Donny is useless, I want him on the wing. Then I'll blame the manager for it not working. Waaah.

Waaah, even though Leeds clearly set out to kick us off the park and stop the game constantly, we still should be steamrolling them despite the ref being a bellend. Waaah.

Waaah, why's Martial not starting? Waah, martial is shit. Why's it not mason up front? Waah, mason is shit why's it not rashy? Waaah he's shit......waaaah.

Waaah, I want subs. Waaah not those subs, I want other subs....waaaah.

Waaah, those one's are shit too.....

Waaah, I want I want I want......waaaaaaaah.

Newbie for six years, makes sense now.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Newbie for six years, makes sense now.

Barely posted for 5 of them.

Must be great being you.
How's it going up on that horse?

Are you going to drop the "I've got higher standards" line? We can always use that one again. I've gotta admit it's a personal favourite.

 

[pierrethesnack]

My favorite RedCafe "meme" has to be the idea that Ole could be such a great manager if he only started to make one or two subs at the 60 minute mark. He's doing well besides that of course, but the lack of subs at that particular time means that he is clueless.

It is well known that a sub has a fuller stamina bar, therefore he can sprint more and score the goals we need.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

With both Julian and Poch at top clubs, there is essentially no one left. Either Ole works or we are ****ed.

 

[MattofManchester]

Draw 0-0 and the crybabies are back. Some are even demanding we put Donny on the right.
Brilliant.
Honestly guys, give yer heads a wobble.

Waaah, we've not won 12-0 waaah.

Waah, even though Its obvious Donny is useless, I want him on the wing. Then I'll blame the manager for it not working. Waaah.

Waaah, even though Leeds clearly set out to kick us off the park and stop the game constantly, we still should be steamrolling them despite the ref being a bellend. Waaah.

Waaah, why's Martial not starting? Waah, martial is shit. Why's it not mason up front? Waah, mason is shit why's it not rashy? Waaah he's shit......waaaah.

Waaah, I want subs. Waaah not those subs, I want other subs....waaaah.

Waaah, those one's are shit too.....

Waaah, I want I want I want......waaaaaaaah.

So the Benjamin Button syndrome does exist...

You can just see the various stages of reverse ageing from start to finish.

 

[NZT-One]

Draw 0-0 and the crybabies are back. Some are even demanding we put Donny on the right.
Brilliant.
Honestly guys, give yer heads a wobble.

Waaah, we've not won 12-0 waaah.

Waah, even though Its obvious Donny is useless, I want him on the wing. Then I'll blame the manager for it not working. Waaah.

Waaah, even though Leeds clearly set out to kick us off the park and stop the game constantly, we still should be steamrolling them despite the ref being a bellend. Waaah.

Waaah, why's Martial not starting? Waah, martial is shit. Why's it not mason up front? Waah, mason is shit why's it not rashy? Waaah he's shit......waaaah.

Waaah, I want subs. Waaah not those subs, I want other subs....waaaah.

Waaah, those one's are shit too.....

Waaah, I want I want I want......waaaaaaaah.

This posts appears to be a lot worse in the crybaby-category than the actual criticism it is directed at...

Both of them play next to another midfielder who is much more defensively solid than Pogba is. Hell, Kante's best two seasons were when he had Drinkwater and then Matic next to him. Even when they play for France (normally a slower tempo and weaker opposition) they play a third hard-working central midfielder on the wing to help compensate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the McFred combo either. But I do think this idea that people have that one midfielder can handle the defensive workload himself next to Pogba would see us getting ripped apart too often, especially when you take into account our front three are quite lazy defensively as well. I just don't think he's suitable to play consistently in that position. Ultimately I think we need to replace one of McFred with somebody who is both solid defensively and can provide a fair bit more creatively (you mention Saul so perhaps that'd be an option, although I haven't watched him enough to say) to try to get the best of both worlds. We've got too many other priorities to try to replace both of them.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. No team in the world can survive in the CL without a certain amount of workrate around the team. I am applauding Ole for getting Pogba in the team without having him within the double pivot where he just isnt suited for without changing a lot in the team changed to compensate. We play better when he is in the team, but I think, having him in the double pivot will re-open some of the gates we somewhat closed by having McFred.

Exactly this. Somehow we're the ones who get the blame for the other teams' set up in games.

Tactically I thought this was a much better performance than the 6-2, with us exerting much more control on proceedings. The issue was in our execution.

I find it ironic that you don't like that we "get blame for the other teams' set up" while happily taking credit for "exerting more control" - if Leeds played more reserved, isn't it by design that they let you control more? Can you have it both ways now? Feels wrong to me.

I didn't think, we were in much control of anything - Leeds put up a very good fight until deep into the second half, I haven't watched too many games of them to know if they where deeper than usual, but if what we have seen from them was a low block, then we employed a low block as well in many games this season. The same way not every goal we score that comes from direct passes is a counterattack, not every team is a low block just because we don't really create much against them.
In my eyes, the game was pretty frantic, we didn't cope with the fight and press, but I wouldn't have switched Fred or McT for Donny as well, would have been to lightweight I guess. The Pogba sub could have been a little earlier but seeing its effect, it didn't really matter anyway. In those type of games, we have to have the ability to move the ball more patiently while keeping it, I am pretty sure, Leeds would have made at least one mistake to score from but we kept playing it very fast and direct direct as usual. Didn't work - no major criticism to the manager this match, you can't win them all. But it would be nice, to have some sort of plan how to shake things up when we reach an impass like in this match. Hopefully, we can integrate that during the summer.

 

[big rons sovereign]

This posts appears to be a lot worse in the crybaby-category than the actual criticism it is directed at...


Wholeheartedly agree with this. No team in the world can survive in the CL without a certain amount of workrate around the team. I am applauding Ole for getting Pogba in the team without having him within the double pivot where he just isnt suited for without changing a lot in the team changed to compensate. We play better when he is in the team, but I think, having him in the double pivot will re-open some of the gates we somewhat closed by having McFred.


I find it ironic that you don't like that we "get blame for the other teams' set up" while happily taking credit for "exerting more control" - if Leeds played more reserved, isn't it by design that they let you control more? Can you have it both ways now? Feels wrong to me.

I didn't think, we were in much control of anything - Leeds put up a very good fight until deep into the second half, I haven't watched too many games of them to know if they where deeper than usual, but if what we have seen from them was a low block, then we employed a low block as well in many games this season. The same way not every goal we score that comes from direct passes is a counterattack, not every team is a low block just because we don't really create much against them.
In my eyes, the game was pretty frantic, we didn't cope with the fight and press, but I wouldn't have switched Fred or McT for Donny as well, would have been to lightweight I guess. The Pogba sub could have been a little earlier but seeing its effect, it didn't really matter anyway. In those type of games, we have to have the ability to move the ball more patiently while keeping it, I am pretty sure, Leeds would have made at least one mistake to score from but we kept playing it very fast and direct direct as usual. Didn't work - no major criticism to the manager this match, you can't win them all. But it would be nice, to have some sort of plan how to shake things up when we reach an impass like in this match. Hopefully, we can integrate that during the summer.

Ok.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

With both Julian and Poch at top clubs, there is essentially no one left. Either Ole works or we are ****ed.

There are other good managers out there for sure, but maybe not many that plays sexy football and have a great chance of winning titles. May have to pick either way I guess.

This season is not a sucess (could be with Europa league), but Ole have shown he can improve us in some areas.
The football is often a bit dull,but on our day we play good stuff.
So yes if we can't identify an obvious better pick we could give Ole another season.

I think we need one top striker though and some more depth to go all the way and without that we probably fail under most managers.

 

[Blood Mage]

I'm warming to the idea of him sticking around despite his late subs winding me up all season, but for me if we're going to reach the next level then he needs to be ruthless and replace Carrick and McKenna with better coaches.

 

[TwoSheds]

My favorite RedCafe "meme" has to be the idea that Ole could be such a great manager if he only started to make one or two subs at the 60 minute mark. He's doing well besides that of course, but the lack of subs at that particular time means that he is clueless.

Are we to take it you think he's brilliant at making subs at the right time, or that he's not a good coach besides that?

 

[Karlos PFC]

With both Julian and Poch at top clubs, there is essentially no one left. Either Ole works or we are ****ed.

Alegri is free, he could do wonders with this team and football-wise after 2,5 years of Oleball you'd hardly know the difference

 

[always_hoping]

This season was always about building on last seasons 3rd place finish and with the poor transfer window with no CDM, centre back and right winger brought in and the slow start to the season that looked unlikely happen.

Yet here we are, currently United have more points now than last season with 5 games to play with decent opportunity of finishing 2nd. Not just points wise and position where progress has been made. 28 points gained from losing positions which requires leadership, character & both aspects I would have questioned about this group of players before this season

The summer transfer window ahead will be one of Uniteds most important in years. It will show what type of ambition these owners really have in order to mount a serious title challenge and eventually win major honours like the Premier League and champions league again in the foreseeable future.

 

[Blood Mage]

This season was always about building on last seasons 3rd place finish and with the poor transfer window with no CDM, centre back and right winger brought in and the slow start to the season that looked unlikely happen.

Yet here we are, currently United have more points now than last season with 5 games to play with decent opportunity of finishing 2nd. Not just points wise and position where progress has been made. 28 points gained from losing positions which requires leadership, character & both aspects I would have questioned about this group of players before this season

The summer transfer window ahead will be one of Uniteds most important in years. It will show what type of ambition these owners really have in order to mount a serious title challenge and eventually win major honours like the Premier League and champions league again in the foreseeable future.

The big difference has been Shaw's improved form and fitness, plus finally signing a backup LB to enable us to rest him.

 

[united_99]

This season was always about building on last seasons 3rd place finish and with the poor transfer window with no CDM, centre back and right winger brought in and the slow start to the season that looked unlikely happen.

Yet here we are, currently United have more points now than last season with 5 games to play with decent opportunity of finishing 2nd. Not just points wise and position where progress has been made. 28 points gained from losing positions which requires leadership, character & both aspects I would have questioned about this group of players before this season

The summer transfer window ahead will be one of Uniteds most important in years. It will show what type of ambition these owners really have in order to mount a serious title challenge and eventually win major honours like the Premier League and champions league again in the foreseeable future.

We said this last summer, too.
My guess is we won’t strengthen the first team again, maybe make some James or Amad like signing, then look decent to good again next season and based on this the fan base will be hysteric again and claim that it’s because of Ole that we can’t win the Premier League.

 

[OleBoiii]

Are we to take it you think he's brilliant at making subs at the right time, or that he's not a good coach besides that?

I think he's doing everything well. The only two things I want from him going forward:

1. Big trophies(PL or CL). This should be achievable if we raise our performances/PPG around 5-10%.
2. A couple of strong signings(goalscorer, CM and maybe a defender).

Number 1 is probably impossible without number 2, though. And that part is quite clearly not just down to Ole.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

This season was always about building on last seasons 3rd place finish and with the poor transfer window with no CDM, centre back and right winger brought in and the slow start to the season that looked unlikely happen.

Yet here we are, currently United have more points now than last season with 5 games to play with decent opportunity of finishing 2nd. Not just points wise and position where progress has been made. 28 points gained from losing positions which requires leadership, character & both aspects I would have questioned about this group of players before this season

The summer transfer window ahead will be one of Uniteds most important in years. It will show what type of ambition these owners really have in order to mount a serious title challenge and eventually win major honours like the Premier League and champions league again in the foreseeable future.

We lost 150 million in COVID and Woodward himself said we are not immune to the economic climate. On top of this the ESL fell through, there is zero chance we go big. It is not even a matter of ambition, the money just won't be there.

 

[RedSky]

Had to do a double take yesterday when I saw we'd only lost 4 games all season in the league. Quite impressive considering two of those were at the very start of the season against Spurs and Palace.

It's 4 games lost in the last 47 Premier League games. That's a run of fixtures that stretches back to the 1st February 2020.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We said this last summer, too.
My guess is we won’t strengthen the first team again, maybe make some James or Amad like signing, then look decent to good again next season and based on this the fan base will be hysteric again and claim that it’s because of Ole that we can’t win the Premier League.

Think after the last few days, if we make those sort of signings the anger will be well and truly turned on the owners.

 

[RedSky]

Think after the last few days, if we make those sort of signings the anger will be well and truly turned on the owners.

I don't think they really give a shit in all honesty.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's 4 games lost in the last 47 Premier League games. That's a run of fixtures that stretches back to the 1st February 2020.

It's the draws that are problem.

 

[TwoSheds]

I think he's doing everything well. The only two things I want from him going forward:

1. Big trophies(PL or CL). This should be achievable if we raise our performances/PPG around 5-10%.
2. A couple of strong signings(goalscorer, CM and maybe a defender).

Number 1 is probably impossible without number 2, though. And that part is quite clearly not just down to Ole.

So you don't think timing your subs to let them give maximum impact on a game is important then?

 

[RedSky]

It's the draws that are problem.

Which can be rectified next season, the important thing is getting that mentality back in the boys that as a club we simply do not lose games and so far Ole has managed to get that back into the squad. That will make us stronger in the long term for cup runs as well as runs in the league. Just a shame the club didn't bring in Sancho in the Summer as we'd be challenging for the title right now.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Which can be rectified next season, the important thing is getting that mentality back in the boys that as a club we simply do not lose games and so far Ole has managed to get that back into the squad. That will make us stronger in the long term for cup runs as well as runs in the league. Just a shame the club didn't bring in Sancho in the Summer as we'd be challenging for the title right now.

Agree.

 

[Withnail]

So you don't think timing your subs to let them give maximum impact on a game is important then?

You see you say that and there are legit arguments about his in-game management, or lack thereof, according to literally everybody but then you look at the stats for wins from losing positions and goals scored by substitutes and we're leading the league for both.

Can the two things be true?

 

[Dve]

Draw 0-0 and the crybabies are back. Some are even demanding we put Donny on the right.
Brilliant.
Honestly guys, give yer heads a wobble.

Waaah, we've not won 12-0 waaah.

Waah, even though Its obvious Donny is useless, I want him on the wing. Then I'll blame the manager for it not working. Waaah.

Waaah, even though Leeds clearly set out to kick us off the park and stop the game constantly, we still should be steamrolling them despite the ref being a bellend. Waaah.

Waaah, why's Martial not starting? Waah, martial is shit. Why's it not mason up front? Waah, mason is shit why's it not rashy? Waaah he's shit......waaaah.

Waaah, I want subs. Waaah not those subs, I want other subs....waaaah.

Waaah, those one's are shit too.....

Waaah, I want I want I want......waaaaaaaah.

That´s indeed a very childish post.

Please forgive me If you actually are a child. Then I guess all I can say is: keep up the good work!

 

[TwoSheds]

You see you say that and there are legit arguments about his in-game management, or lack thereof, according to literally everybody but then you look at the stats for wins from losing positions and goals scored by substitutes and we're leading the league for both.

Can the two things be true?

Yes. We come from behind a lot because we rarely turn up in the first half of games. It's not really surprising that the subs have an impact when you only ever start playing in the 2nd half.

I also don't think it's fair to give a player 5 minutes to affect a game, how are they supposed to get in any kind of rhythm if they only have time for a handful of touches?

I feel like there's some statto in the background working out complicated equations about energy levels and concentration or something and we always go off that, because it's not just Ole who forever leaves his subs too late these days, it's loads of managers, it has to be some sort of hipster theory. But it completely overlooks the fact that your subs aren't only there for their own performance, they're also there to send a message to the rest of your team, give them a kick or a lift. If you leave it until 15 mins to go before giving that impetus you're just minimising the amount of time the team has to respond to your message. Sometimes football is a simple game, it does my head in when coaches overcomplicate it to their own detriment.

 

[Withnail]

Yes. We come from behind a lot because we rarely turn up in the first half of games. It's not really surprising that the subs have an impact when you only ever start playing in the 2nd half.

I also don't think it's fair to give a player 5 minutes to affect a game, how are they supposed to get in any kind of rhythm if they only have time for a handful of touches?

I feel like there's some statto in the background working out complicated equations about energy levels and concentration and we always go off that, because it's not just Ole who forever leaves his subs too late these days, it's loads of managers, it has to be some sort of hipster theory. But it completely overlooks the fact that your subs aren't only there for their own performance, they're also there to send a message to the rest of your team, give them a kick or a lift. If you leave it until 15 mins to go before giving that impetus you're just minimising the amount of time the team has to respond to your message. Sometimes football is a simple game, it does my head in when coaches overcomplicate it to their own detriment.

I do find it strange when he brings on an attacking sub extremely late given his old quote about how he felt himself that he needed at least 20 mins to affect the game as a sub.

 

[croadyman]

Would he rest players for these last few league games if results go in our favour and put 2nd place out of Leicester's reach

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Would he rest players for these last few league games if results go in our favour and put 2nd place out of Leicester's reach

He should, especially if we do get to the EL final, you want players fresh for that.

 

[Dve]

I am not even sure Ole have faith we could win the title. Should have gone more agressive with the subs early on.

In Europe this kind of tactic at home would be more acceptable since a 0-0 draw at home is decent in Europe with not giving away away goals.

In fairness, we´ve been pretty good in the second halves lately, and there is little point in making subs just for the sake of it. I can see it´s less tempting to make changes when what you are already doing looks to work to your advantage.

 

[croadyman]

He should, especially if we do get to the EL final, you want players fresh for that.

Yeah I totally agree but just don't see him doing it still

 

[big rons sovereign]

That´s indeed a very childish post.

Please forgive me If you actually are a child. Then I guess all I can say is: keep up the good work!

Jesus, just have a look back at what I'm getting at.
It's ridiculous.
But apparently mocking that is childish.
I wish I was a pillar of maturity such as you.

Honestly mate, get over yourself.

 

[always_hoping]

We lost 150 million in COVID and Woodward himself said we are not immune to the economic climate. On top of this the ESL fell through, there is zero chance we go big. It is not even a matter of ambition, the money just won't be there.

I don't buy that excuse, United aren't the only club that has lost money and plenty of the top 5 will be spending big in upcoming transfer window. Doesn't have to be big money signings either, decent scouting over the last 12 months would bring in decent quality players at bargain prices.

 

[Dve]

Jesus, just have a look back at what I'm getting at.
It's ridiculous.
But apparently mocking that is childish.
I wish I was a pillar of maturity such as you.

Honestly mate, get over yourself.

I´m not criticising your view. Just the way you are arguing.