Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Our draw record is fine, we have 10 IIRC. It's the stupid losses against lower table sides that screw us over. In 10/11 we had 11 draws and finished 1st, and in 11/12 we had 5 and finishes 2d. Not that that proves anything, but having the tactical know how to safe 0-0 is not a problem in itself as long as we manage get points agaianst significantly weaker opponents. There's a time and place for throwing everything at our opponents, today wasn't one of them. But yeah, if we don't improve attacking wise during next season it will start to become a problem.

Well from the top of my head the draws against Crystal Palace (away), Arsenal (when half of their first team was out), Chelsea (Home and Away) and today, one thing was common we were scared to lose. Its high time we buy a decent midfielder who can protect the back four (ala Kante or Rice) and start Pogba alongside him or sign somebody like Saul etc to replace him.

Playing Mcfred will always limit our side to decent as compared to Top side. Furthermore, I can digest us playing Mcfred if we are playing against Madrid or Psg away but not against Leeds who are in 9th place and known to be poor defensively, i would try my attacking game and get some goals and then make changes and get my first team players off for midweek.
 
Well if you try to understand the context its not wrong, we could act frightened and make half hearted changes only in 10 minutes just to show people we tried and get two draws and get 2 points. Whereas we throw caution to the wind and really go for it and sometimes get sucker punched and lose, the other time we win, therefore we get 3 points (in 2 matches) as compared to 2 points being extra cautious. I know which side I would prefer to watch and which side is more likely to get wins.

why do you think we used to win soo many matches late with SAF, because we used to make positive changes with taking defenders and midfielders off for strikers and having 2 to 3 strikers on sometimes, whereas now its all like with like changes and normally those done around 75+ minutes and sometimes the likes of VDB getting 2 minutes like today. Where is the hunger and desire to win matches, I frankly don't see it and I see our manager as a coward who is scared to lose first and foremost rather than trying to win.

What's our win rate this year and how many games have we lost?

You might also look up how many pts we've gained from losing positions and goals scored by substitutes compared to the rest of the league too.
 
Jesus Christ! Leeds are a very capable side and if one takes them lightly, they are more than capable of scoring 2-3 against any opposition.

Playing both McT and Fred was to avoid end to end game, and James was selected for his defensive work rate. In a game that was expected to be of high intensity, Pog wouldn't have been the best bet as he's fasting! And lastly, instead of looking at us being defensive, how about people compare Leeds performance of today vs Leeds' performance of other games- they were quite cautious today, did not try gung-ho and if we had a bit of luck, we'd still have scored a goal or two
 
Well, we will never win the league if he does not start to act brave as a coach. Remember Fergie we used to have 3, sometimes 4 strikers in the last 20 minutes, whereas with him, its always one striker in one out. Its like nobody gave him the memo that he can sub midfielders/defenders for strikers.

Lastly if he knew the club, he would have known that we give it all and the other team has to earn their 0-0 draw with us. We would be camped in their half with chances galore or their keeper having the game of their life (Friedal remember). Today I felt we would be lucky to get a shot on target let alone score with the starting eleven.
Come on mate. This is rubbish.

maybe he should field 10 strikers so that Fahad Jawaid of the redcafe will be happy.


Losing 5-0 or not.
 
Jesus Christ! Leeds are a very capable side and if one takes them lightly, they are more than capable of scoring 2-3 against any opposition.

Playing both McT and Fred was to avoid end to end game, and James was selected for his defensive work rate. In a game that was expected to be of high intensity, Pog wouldn't have been the best bet as he's fasting! And lastly, instead of looking at us being defensive, how about people compare Leeds performance of today vs Leeds' performance of other games- they were quite cautious today, did not try gung-ho and if we had a bit of luck, we'd still have scored a goal or two
Exactly this. Somehow we're the ones who get the blame for the other teams' set up in games.

Tactically I thought this was a much better performance than the 6-2, with us exerting much more control on proceedings. The issue was in our execution.
 
Yet we have scored more goals from subs than any other team this season. It isn’t close either from what I recall.

Ole isn’t perfect but our hesitancy to shoot today was the problem, Bruno, James, Rashford all could have done better.
You know we’re the comeback kings and top scorers in the later stages of matches, right?

Christ...

To be fair, if our Plan A was good enough, we wouldn't be relying on Plan B.

"Our hesistancy to shoot", 'Players not knowing how to pass", "No movement" is an indictment on Ole as much as on the players.

Ole needs to grow our game tactically and evolve so that we are able to dominate the opposition from the get go because we have a better squad than 90% of the league.

He'll get a pass this year but I'm not sure if this hands off coaching approach is sustainable or will give us a progressive trajectory (one that is good enough for a serious title challenge).
 
To be fair, if our Plan A was good enough, we wouldn't be relying on Plan B.

"Our hesistancy to shoot", 'Players not knowing how to pass", "No movement" is an indictment on Ole as much as on the players.

Ole needs to grow our game tactically and evolve so that we are able to dominate the opposition from the get go because we have a better squad than 90% of the league.

He'll get a pass this year but I'm not sure if this hands off coaching approach is sustainable or will give us a progressive trajectory (one that is good enough for a serious title challenge).

It was to his point about late winners under Fergie. Time will tell on the rest. Important to remember that Ole arrived at our lowest ebb, got rid of players we needed to get shot, even when he couldn’t replace them, and now has the consequences of Covid to our fixtures and pre-season affecting his second full season. All things considered I feel we’re doing well, and I’m enjoying following the club more than I ever have since Fergie stepped down.
 
It was to his point about late winners under Fergie. Time will tell on the rest. Important to remember that Ole arrived at our lowest ebb, got rid of players we needed to get shot, even when he couldn’t replace them, and now has the consequences of Covid to our fixtures and pre-season affecting his second full season. All things considered I feel we’re doing well, and I’m enjoying following the club more than I ever have since Fergie stepped down.

I think his anger/point is misguidged. We critise Ole's subs/late game tactics because we regularly appear in those positions due to our poor starts and inability to dictate games on our own terms.

Overall I would agree with you but that's giving a lot of benefit of the doubt imo. I'm more on the cautious/critical side but a Europa Cup and 2nd place would earn a lot of credit in the bank from me. Anything less and I wouldn't be optimistic going into next season.
 
I am not even sure Ole have faith we could win the title. Should have gone more agressive with the subs early on.

In Europe this kind of tactic at home would be more acceptable since a 0-0 draw at home is decent in Europe with not giving away away goals.
 
I think his anger/point is misguidged. We critise Ole's subs/late game tactics because we regularly appear in those positions due to our poor starts and inability to dictate games on our own terms.

Overall I would agree with you but that's giving a lot of benefit of the doubt imo. I'm more on the cautious/critical side but a Europa Cup and 2nd place would earn a lot of credit in the bank from me. Anything less and I wouldn't be optimistic going into next season.

I actually think late subs are valid criticisms (though we’ve seen him resort to early subs) and today it was very clear that Dan James was not going to give us anything. The habit of going behind is definitely something to not gloss over as well.

As far as benefit of the doubt goes, I think the full context makes that easy to give to Ole. He clearly has managed to instill a strong mentality and unity in the squad, we’re going up in position, points, goals scored, etc. each season. Not to mention the investments into the academy! I feel like even thinking about showing Ole the door right now is kind of silly.
 
Seriously, what game were you watching? We nullified Leeds at home to the extent that they were feeding on scraps and were the only team actually pressing for the win. Leeds, meanwhile brought off their marauding winger and put on a CB, while we took off a defensive midfielder for an attacker.

James did his job off the ball. So too did McFred. We didn't win today because our attackers did not turn up. Literally nothing else.
Nullified? Look at the words you use when discussing us play an inferior team. We don’t need James when playing Leeds. We need to create/score and a player like James limits our ability to do so. We will see more of the same crap next season while finish top 4 because our manager isn’t ruthless enough. Multimillion pound team having to adjust to others.
 
He should be fired because our away record this season is 10-7-0 ...... we didn't even beat Leeds away - useless manager
 
Well from the top of my head the draws against Crystal Palace (away), Arsenal (when half of their first team was out), Chelsea (Home and Away) and today, one thing was common we were scared to lose. Its high time we buy a decent midfielder who can protect the back four (ala Kante or Rice) and start Pogba alongside him or sign somebody like Saul etc to replace him.

Playing Mcfred will always limit our side to decent as compared to Top side. Furthermore, I can digest us playing Mcfred if we are playing against Madrid or Psg away but not against Leeds who are in 9th place and known to be poor defensively, i would try my attacking game and get some goals and then make changes and get my first team players off for midweek.
Would you not consider starting McFred in this game even with the other game against them in mind?
 
I find Ole's reluctance to make subs at the 50-60 minute mark in these games against lesser teams (when things aren't working out and the game is headed for an obvious draw), a major mark on him as manager. It's the main reason I have lingering doubts about him.

He never tries to force the issue and be a bit adventurous in-game and we drop too many points in these pointless draws while not rotating the squad much either. How many times have we seen this act where the McFred double pivot seems unnecessary and ineffective in helping open up a defensive team, yet nothing changes till minute 85?
 
Almost a dead rubber - Leeds safe while United have a decent lead over the chasing pack but no realistic chance of pushing further after City beat Villa. With the Roma game coming up, I don’t see any reason to get worked up over a boring away point against a decent side.
 
I find Ole's reluctance to make subs at the 50-60 minute mark in these games against lesser teams (when things aren't working out and the game is headed for an obvious draw), a major mark on him as manager. It's the main reason I have lingering doubts about him.

He never tries to force the issue and be a bit adventurous in-game and we drop too many points in these pointless draws while not rotating the squad much either. How many times have we seen this act where the McFred double pivot seems unnecessary and ineffective in helping open up a defensive team, yet nothing changes till minute 85?
Subs are a valid criticism but I think its exaggerated. As for never forcing an issue that isnt true, in some games subs changed the game.
 
If he was thinking of the Roma game it's understandable. But why didn't he play DVB then? Unless he wants DVB to play against Roma? I don't think he is going to start DVB against Roma.
 
Subs are a valid criticism but I think its exaggerated. As for never forcing an issue that isnt true, in some games subs changed the game.

You are taking the word never literally when it wasn't meant to be. Let me change this for rarely then and it becomes factually correct. The fact that subs have changed the game at times is the reason why he should be making more use of them and earlier. Instead of leaving for the last 5-10 mins. I don't think this criticism is exagerrated but you're entitled to your opinion.

If he was thinking of the Roma game it's understandable. But why didn't he play DVB then? Unless he wants DVB to play against Roma? I don't think he is going to start DVB against Roma.

I'm cross-posting from the VDB thread but...

We're playing out a nil-nil game with Leeds and the double pivot with McT and Fred is clearly not working. VDB comes off the back of a couple of promising cameos and we know he can provide a bit more end product than the other two. What is more, one of McT or Fred will have to start against Roma midweek and likely play the full game, so it's good excuse to take one off early. Finally, the top 4 is basically in the bag and these games don't matter much.

Given the above, what rational reason is there to not give VDB 20-30 mins here? If not now, then when? It seems right down dumb not to do it.
 
There is nothing left to play for in a very long and relentless season other than Europa League. Everyone is rightly not going to go for it in the league now. Win the Europa and go into next season with a trophy.
 
Nullified? Look at the words you use when discussing us play an inferior team. We don’t need James when playing Leeds. We need to create/score and a player like James limits our ability to do so. We will see more of the same crap next season while finish top 4 because our manager isn’t ruthless enough. Multimillion pound team having to adjust to others.
Look at Leeds. Look at what they did to the champions on Monday, and the champions elect the week before. Every game they've played up to now, they have been the team on the front foot, the team to press the initiative even when it was suicide, but in this game we forced the famously cavalier Bielsa to essentially employ a deep and low block with 11 men. That hasn't happened at all this season.

We thought that we did need James because Pogba was the alternative. A Pogba who is famously vulnerable to the press and who is also inconsistent in his defensive application. When you're going man for man which we thought Leeds would do (because they hadn't changed tack at all up to now) you need that high energy approach. Likewise, McFred absolutely smothered their midfield 5. They gave us the base from which we could dominate the game and possession. We also limited Leeds to their joint-lowest xG score this season, and I think for the second time this season they had been out possessed in a match (the other time being City).

Our attack didn't turn up and that's why we didn't win but the overall approach was a good one and I'd argue that it was a lot better than the 6-2. We exerted much more control and outside of a few instances, we made sure we didn't play Leeds' game. Likewise, Leeds were stronger opponents and they learnt from their mistakes from the last time which made it more of a stalemate but even so, we were a fully firing Rashford and Bruno away from getting the 2 to 3 goals our game plan deserved.

Also, this manager that you say isn't ruthless enough took a sledgehammer to Jose's squad. He's gotten rid of or sidelined as much as 10 players from that team who finished 2nd and the only reason he hasn't gotten rid of more is because he has a bunch of useless cnuts above him who didn't get him the players he clearly needed and wanted last summer. He has 2nd right now with a squad which has as much as 4 gaping holes in its 1st XI and a regular starting midfield of McFred. Ask anyone here if they thought we'd be here at this point of the season after the 6-1 v Spurs or after that shitheap of a transfer window, and you'll have been laughed out of the room. Especially since Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, and Spurs all had much stronger transfer windows than us, and managers that you probably said were all levels above Ole.

Give him some respect for the job he's done, FFS. He needed backing last summer, and he needs it again this summer but I doubt we'll see him get it, and we'll again see the clueless among us decry him as being clueless or "not ruthless enough".
 
I'm surprised at some of the reactions to this game.

I thought we were in complete control and made Leeds look like a pub side for most of the game.

We were pretty poor in the final 3rd though and missing that final bit of quality.

Could have made subs sooner too.
 
8, 9, 10, 11 points behind first place. Whats the difference? we are not winning the league this season.
 
If he was thinking of the Roma game it's understandable. But why didn't he play DVB then? Unless he wants DVB to play against Roma? I don't think he is going to start DVB against Roma.

That would be my main complaint. James ahead of VdB is not right. World of difference in quality.

By playing James, we end up with 3 defensive minded players behind the attackers.

That's just too defensive.
 
How long do you guys think it will take for him to win his 1st trophy at Man Utd?

He's exactly 1 month away from it. On 26th May 2021. In Gdańsk, Poland. Against Villarreal.

An then another one on 11 August 2021. In George Best's hometown Belfast, Northern Ireland. Against PSG again :drool:

Do it Ole.
 
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Ole has shown himself to be risk averse to an almost frustrating degree, but with nothing left to lose I don't see how we don't give Amad minutes tbh. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from continuing with James and ignoring Amad when the league positions have already been decided.

Many people have pointed the bolded part out.

There's a chance that Ole doesn't realize that this risk-aversion eventually will filter down into the playing staff. This is a potentially very serious issue that hasn't been covered much.

Only reason it hasn't happened yet to any serious degree is Bruno.
 
Well from the top of my head the draws against Crystal Palace (away), Arsenal (when half of their first team was out), Chelsea (Home and Away) and today, one thing was common we were scared to lose. Its high time we buy a decent midfielder who can protect the back four (ala Kante or Rice) and start Pogba alongside him or sign somebody like Saul etc to replace him.
Both of them play next to another midfielder who is much more defensively solid than Pogba is. Hell, Kante's best two seasons were when he had Drinkwater and then Matic next to him. Even when they play for France (normally a slower tempo and weaker opposition) they play a third hard-working central midfielder on the wing to help compensate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the McFred combo either. But I do think this idea that people have that one midfielder can handle the defensive workload himself next to Pogba would see us getting ripped apart too often, especially when you take into account our front three are quite lazy defensively as well. I just don't think he's suitable to play consistently in that position. Ultimately I think we need to replace one of McFred with somebody who is both solid defensively and can provide a fair bit more creatively (you mention Saul so perhaps that'd be an option, although I haven't watched him enough to say) to try to get the best of both worlds. We've got too many other priorities to try to replace both of them.
 
Yet again another cringe Ole interview :nono: I must of been watching a different match as I certainly didn't think we played well. Can only think/hope we had our minds on Thursdays game.
 
I just wish he would try something different sometimes with Bruno. It was quite clear that Phillips had his number yesterday and was physically stronger than him. As soon as pogba came on he was able to hold off Phillips and keep the ball well. He should've brought on Pogba sooner and moved Bruno to the left.

I feel if we are going to win a trophy this season, he will need to learn to be flexible especially with Bruno because as good as he is, he can be marked out of games and when that happens, he gets frustrated and starts moaning at the rest of the players
 
To be fair, if our Plan A was good enough, we wouldn't be relying on Plan B.

"Our hesistancy to shoot", 'Players not knowing how to pass", "No movement" is an indictment on Ole as much as on the players.

Ole needs to grow our game tactically and evolve so that we are able to dominate the opposition from the get go because we have a better squad than 90% of the league.

He'll get a pass this year but I'm not sure if this hands off coaching approach is sustainable or will give us a progressive trajectory (one that is good enough for a serious title challenge).
We do have a better team than 90% of the league. We're currently sitting in 2nd which would make us better than 95% of the league in terms of performance.
 
Draw 0-0 and the crybabies are back. Some are even demanding we put Donny on the right.
Brilliant.
Honestly guys, give yer heads a wobble.

Waaah, we've not won 12-0 waaah.

Waah, even though Its obvious Donny is useless, I want him on the wing. Then I'll blame the manager for it not working. Waaah.

Waaah, even though Leeds clearly set out to kick us off the park and stop the game constantly, we still should be steamrolling them despite the ref being a bellend. Waaah.

Waaah, why's Martial not starting? Waah, martial is shit. Why's it not mason up front? Waah, mason is shit why's it not rashy? Waaah he's shit......waaaah.

Waaah, I want subs. Waaah not those subs, I want other subs....waaaah.

Waaah, those one's are shit too.....

Waaah, I want I want I want......waaaaaaaah.
 
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My favorite RedCafe "meme" has to be the idea that Ole could be such a great manager if he only started to make one or two subs at the 60 minute mark. He's doing well besides that of course, but the lack of subs at that particular time means that he is clueless.
 
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